MMO ReRoll - Champions Online | MMORPG.com

System · January 2021

MMO ReRoll - Champions Online | MMORPG.com

After adventuring through a few high fantasy RPGs for MMO Reroll, Mitch felt like it was time to take a break from dwarves and trolls and try something different. So he turned to Champions Online. What's it like to check out this MMO in 2021 as a new player?

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Scott_Jeslis · January 2021

Mitch with a superhero game, wow. :-)

Splattr · January 2021

Scott_Jeslis said:

Mitch with a superhero game, wow. :-)

I'm sorta super so it kinda makes sense.

Samhael · January 2021

Scott_Jeslis said:

Mitch with a superhero game, wow. :-)

He's super, thanks for asking?

Dude, I'm really missing the face-palming Spider-man I've known from the other place.

KnightFalz · January 2021

They did give away one freeform slot for free, not terribly long ago. All one had to do was log in and claim it from the in game store. I was surprised by that, seeing as freeform is the most standout and valuable feature of the game.

Perhaps they will do it again some time.

Quizzical · January 2021

Champions Online used to be pretty good. Maybe it even still is if you've got an unlimited budget. I'd probably give it another go at some point if they brought back the subscription option. But needing to pay $250 to repurchase access to characters that I already paid for just isn't tempting. That's not microtransactions.

Quizzical · January 2021

Don't worry. The only thing you miss out on by not playing DC Universe Online is carpal tunnel.

Alverant · January 2021

You do know about City of Heroes Homecoming right? They just released Issue 27 with a new story arc involving the Freakshow. Those cyberthugs have been scavenging from Vahzilok with frightening results.

Po_gg · January 2021

Wow... an article about CO. Awesome

As you said, a FF (Freeform) slot could really open up the game for you, it's a restriction especially for theory-crafting players (others just like the easier set-go of ATs). Sadly with the subscribe option is gone, no easy way to try that aspect of the game out...
It really IS the way of playing the game if you like to build your very own superhero, that's why it was the main subscription perk.

That could ease many of your disconnect feels towards your character, and make leveling up an actual build process, as you pick your next power every time.

Also, while FF is indeed the meat of the game, it's often on discount, and there were two giveaways just in the recent two years as KnightFalz mentioned above.

ATs (Archetypes) aren't bad either, some of them (free ones included) are pretty viable and strong. Unleashed (force-based powers) was a popular FF build Cryptic made into AT around the time SWTOR arrived for example.

Not to mention if you stick around for a year, you can unlock 20 more ATs for free, during the different events happening in CO, which bumps the total into 32 of 41

Actually +1, since the Automaton you mentioned in the article is also a free unlock, you get it when your first character on the account reaches level 40.

(and a slight correction, it ain't really Iron Man, a bit too squishy for that... if you want to make a Tony, Invincible is a much better AT around the Power Armor set. It also can be a free unlock, if you play during the Anniversary.)

While at free unlocks, same goes for the cosmetics, if you play through a game, and the events around the year, you can unlock (guesstimate, not factual) about 2/3 of all the pieces of the game, and trust me, that's a lot. No surprise CO is often called by the community as Costumes Online...

(speaking of costumes, if your Soldier is pumped enough on steroids, sign him up for today's https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/11483443-best-shape-costume-contest%21

)

For the playerbase part, I too used to say in threads about population that CO might have only a smaller crowd, but they're friendly and active.

While you have short queues and players around all the time, it doesn't really matter whether 10k or 10 million is the daily player count.

blbeta · January 2021

Alverant said:

You do know about City of Heroes Homecoming right? They just released Issue 27 with a new story arc involving the Freakshow. Those cyberthugs have been scavenging from Vahzilok with frightening results.

Yeah, I just jumped back into it Good times.

Po_gg · January 2021

I'd add a couple more things, if it's ok.

-Premium pack

"What's it like to check out this MMO in 2021 as a new player?"

For new player's I'd definitely suggest the pack. When Cryptic removed the subscription, that pack was the replacement. Former subscribers got it automatically, others need to buy it, and it's a well worth bundle.

For about $10-15 (depends on the time of purchase, sales and discounts) it puts the account to the state of permanent sub - except the Freeform access.

Unlocks the bag slots, currency cap, a bunch of cosmetics, some fancy travel powers, more AH slots, etc., and gives 6 more character slots as well to have some space experimenting with different character ideas.

-Zen exchange

As with the other two Cryptic games, in CO you can as well get shop currency from simply playing the game. What's dilithium and astral diamonds in STO/Neverwinter, is questionite in CO. Rewarded by quite a couple activities (not just endgame), can exchange it to Zen and buy anything from the store that way.

-Archetype count

Did a re-check on my "32 of 41" calculation above, turned out I failed to count apparently... The ATs you can't get for free (either by default or at an in-game event) are only seven:

1 tank, the Samurai

1 support, Blazing

2 melee dps (Penitent and Cybernetic Warrior)

3 ranged dps (Midnight, Hexslinger and Psychokinetic)

All the rest are available in one way or the other.

So, even if one doesn't need the full freedom of Freeform and feels somewhat safer/easier to just pick a "class" and go with it, still can have a lot of variety without spending cash - as long as doesn't mind playing and participating at events and festivities around the year.

Splattr · January 2021

KnightFalz said:

They did give away one freeform slot for free, not terribly long ago. All one had to do was log in and claim it from the in game store. I was surprised by that, seeing as freeform is the most standout and valuable feature of the game.

Perhaps they will do it again some time.

That's good to hear. I'll have to keep an eye out for another chance.

Splattr · January 2021

blbeta said:

Alverant said:

You do know about City of Heroes Homecoming right? They just released Issue 27 with a new story arc involving the Freakshow. Those cyberthugs have been scavenging from Vahzilok with frightening results.

Yeah, I just jumped back into it Good times.

I knew about Homecoming but never read too much about it. I thought it was more a fan project and didn't realize it was as far along as it is. How is the population?

blbeta · January 2021

2400+ atm for me, not sure what it will be when you look.

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/status/

Alverant · January 2021

Splattr said:

blbeta said:

Alverant said:

You do know about City of Heroes Homecoming right? They just released Issue 27 with a new story arc involving the Freakshow. Those cyberthugs have been scavenging from Vahzilok with frightening results.

Yeah, I just jumped back into it Good times.

I knew about Homecoming but never read too much about it. I thought it was more a fan project and didn't realize it was as far along as it is. How is the population?

In line with blbeta, the population is often in the mid-2000s on a regular basis. Every month they ask for donations to keep the project running and most of the time they get enough within an hour that they can no longer accept more until next month. I don't know how numbers like that stack up with other MMOs, but it's pretty good all things considered. Excelsior and Everlasting are the most populated out of five servers.

GladDog · January 2021

I played Champions in the past, but they really nerfed the fun out of it in a hurry. Now its whales, whales, whales... I found that out when I gave it another try about 3 years ago.

Fortunately, City of Heroes is back. There are a few teams working on the game, Homecoming and Rebirth are the biggest. I'm currently playing mostly on Homecoming/ Excelsior. There are leveling teams, mission teams etc... although it seems like power leveling is about 30-40% of how people are currently leveling. I have no problems with that, I have a power leveling toon on each of my two accounts.

That said, if you enjoyed CoH, you will have tons of fun now, even though it is a 17 year old game. Old graphics don't detract much from the excellent combat. There are still some annoying bugs in the game, but there is plenty of good stuff still in the game. It would be nice if NCsoft would divest themselves of the game so it can grow and maybe even get remastered...

Po_gg · January 2021

GladDog said:

I played Champions in the past, but they really nerfed the fun out of it in a hurry. Now its whales, whales, whales... I found that out when I gave it another try about 3 years ago.

Could you elaborate that part? I'm honestly curious, not just nit-picking...

As far as I know, CO is among the least whale-affected games out there, at least according to other players' fun ("nerfed the fun out of it").

CO's endgame (the "real" endgame, as half-jokingly the community used to say) is cosmetics and alts.

The latter anyone can pile up on, character slots are cheap (regular, not FF slot), and I doubt you mean the fun nerfing by: those whales have 100+ alts, no fun left for me

If anything it even helps with grouping, for endgame runs, if players can bring out different character builds/roles.

So, cosmetics. Game has thousands of pieces, and it's true some of those are really rare and tends to end up at players with plenty of spent time and/or cash. But that's not new, no nerf there, it was the case even back in the subscription days too... people were running Vibora 24/7 for the rare cosmetic drops.

When your fun comes mainly from cosmetics, and you can't build your ideal costume for a contest due to missing pieces, I can see how it hampers your fun, but it ain't a nerf, and not really a whale problem either.

However, they really did nerfs of fun, like around Neverwinter's launch axing the whole crafting system and watering it down into Neverwinter's "new and fun" fusion system, or just last year nerfing the vehicle system entirely (now vehicles are in practice just travel powers with a different skin).

I don't debate the nerfs, I'm only wondering about the "whales, whales, whales" part...

Quizzical · January 2021

Po_gg said:

GladDog said:

I played Champions in the past, but they really nerfed the fun out of it in a hurry. Now its whales, whales, whales... I found that out when I gave it another try about 3 years ago.

Could you elaborate that part? I'm honestly curious, not just nit-picking...
As far as I know, CO is among the least whale-affected games out there, at least according to other players' fun ("nerfed the fun out of it").

CO's endgame (the "real" endgame, as half-jokingly the community used to say) is cosmetics and alts.
The latter anyone can pile up on, character slots are cheap (regular, not FF slot), and I doubt you mean the fun nerfing by: those whales have 100+ alts, no fun left for me
If anything it even helps with grouping, for endgame runs, if players can bring out different character builds/roles.

So, cosmetics. Game has thousands of pieces, and it's true some of those are really rare and tends to end up at players with plenty of spent time and/or cash. But that's not new, no nerf there, it was the case even back in the subscription days too... people were running Vibora 24/7 for the rare cosmetic drops.
When your fun comes mainly from cosmetics, and you can't build your ideal costume for a contest due to missing pieces, I can see how it hampers your fun, but it ain't a nerf, and not really a whale problem either.

However, they really did nerfs of fun, like around Neverwinter's launch axing the whole crafting system and watering it down into Neverwinter's "new and fun" fusion system, or just last year nerfing the vehicle system entirely (now vehicles are in practice just travel powers with a different skin).
I don't debate the nerfs, I'm only wondering about the "whales, whales, whales" part...

I have 28 characters, as I bought a lot of character slots. They used to all be freeform, and I could keep them freeform for $15/month. Now I'd have to pay $250 up front to recover all of those characters before I can continue to play the game. "You must pay $250 to continue" sure sounds like whale territory to me.

Mendel · January 2021

I left my off-and-on affair with CO when I came back, and they wanted me to pay to use my existing characters. It was a bad look then for a F2P game, and it's still a bad look.

I used to enjoy the alerts. The monster invasions were pretty fun, but were pretty limited. A dozen other super villains and various locations around the city would have helped immensely.

cheyane · January 2021

I have tried to like this game and played the beta and also when it launched but I always preferred City of Heroes.

Po_gg · February 2021

Quizzical said:

I have 28 characters, as I bought a lot of character slots. They used to all be freeform, and I could keep them freeform for $15/month. Now I'd have to pay $250 up front to recover all of those characters before I can continue to play the game. "You must pay $250 to continue" sure sounds like whale territory to me.

That's a two-fold issue, but neither part seems whale to me...

First, the price itself, that's for the lifetime. Many games offer lifetime subs, and buying one doesn't make you a whale imo.

Second, and for that I quote Mendel too

Mendel said:

I left my off-and-on affair with CO when I came back, and they wanted me to pay to use my existing characters.

the locked away old Freeform characters. That ain't whale issue either, that's -no need to sugarcoat it- plain ransom, or blackmail.

I'm fully with both of you on that one, was in the same shoes as I'm a game hopper... when I went back to CO I usually threw in a month of sub.

Sadly that's not an option anymore, but it was discussed back and forth at that time as well ( https://www.mmorpg.com/news/were-shifting-away-from-monthly-subscriptions-as-of-june-7th-2000098572 )

I was asking GladDog above because of whaling (for me) translates as the original meaning of: players show up, throw hundreds (or even thousands) of real cash onto the game, and they "nerf the fun" as GladDog said, for other players. Either they trash them in pvp, or get far ahead in PvE, or just get a solidified top space on the e-peen charts, etc.

In CO, they can't do any of those. No pvp (there is, just nobody cares so it's dead

), no power/"I win" purchases, can buy mod/enhancment advances but it affects no other players around since gear ain't an issue in CO anyway...

That's why I was curious about that "they really nerfed the fun out of it in a hurry. Now its whales, whales, whales..." part.

It ain't STO and the $250 legendary ship bundles

now that is some whaling over there.

cheyane · February 2021

What is really nice about Champions Online is the artstyle.

Quizzical · February 2021

Po_gg said:

Quizzical said:

I have 28 characters, as I bought a lot of character slots. They used to all be freeform, and I could keep them freeform for $15/month. Now I'd have to pay $250 up front to recover all of those characters before I can continue to play the game. "You must pay $250 to continue" sure sounds like whale territory to me.

That's a two-fold issue, but neither part seems whale to me...
First, the price itself, that's for the lifetime. Many games offer lifetime subs, and buying one doesn't make you a whale imo.
Second, and for that I quote Mendel too

The reason I quote the $250 price tag is because that's the cheaper way to get it. Add up the cost to buy 28 freeform character slots without a lifetime subscription and it comes to a lot more than that. If you want to say that it's not whaling because it's something else worse than that, fine. But it's a thoroughly unreasonable price tag that I'm not going to pay.

Mendel · February 2021

Po_gg said:

<snip>
Second, and for that I quote Mendel too

Mendel said:

I left my off-and-on affair with CO when I came back, and they wanted me to pay to use my existing characters.

the locked away old Freeform characters. That ain't whale issue either, that's -no need to sugarcoat it- plain ransom, or blackmail.

<snip>

I think the original intent was to trim Freeform characters, but my initial healer and soldier (Sgt Mendel) were somehow included in the blackmail scheme. I remember the fun floating (Jet Pack) off a tall building and lobbing grenades at gangs on passing buildings as I drifted safely to the ground.

Theocritus · February 2021

I remember trying this a few years ago.....I was not impressed but also I was never a fan of superhero worlds......I guess I just like Dwarves and Elves and Humans in my games.

Po_gg · February 2021

Quizzical said:

If you want to say that it's not whaling because it's something else worse than that, fine.

Maybe you misunderstood me (or just skipped the second part).

a) $200-$300 for a lifetime sub, it's fine and is/was pretty common with MMORPGs.

b) Locking away characters is definitely not fine. But the pricetag alone doesn't make it a whale issue...

Whaling is when players spend a ton of money (willingly) on a game to get ahead of other players, to get some benefits, special items or treatment, etc.

Paying a ton of money, just to get back your own characters, and not even willingly but kinda forced to do it (or the characters stay locked), that's rather blackmail and not whaling.

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MMO ReRoll - Champions Online | MMORPG.com

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The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!

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MMO ReRoll - Champions Online | MMORPG.com

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The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!