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40 Man Raids

dinkdink Member Posts: 438
in World of Warcraft

An upcoming game, Gods & Heroes, is planning on having raids that are epic in size by letting 5 players combat them while controlling their team of 8 minions each. 

This is a huge contrast in accessability from WoW's 40 man groups that are much more difficult to access.

I'm posting this here because I'm curious about how WoW players feel about this.  Personally, I would really welcome a game that makes endgame content that I could do without having to join an uber guild.  Would you guys welcome this, or do you prefer playing in uber guilds with weekly raid schedules, etc.?

Comments

  • Unknown
    I'm not optimistic about NPC's supplemented encounters like that.  Minions tends to do dumb things that are frustrating.  Where does this magical number 40 come from anyway?  It wasn't forty in EQ.

  • HarutoHaruto Member Posts: 175

    40 is just a nice even number to show how you need a group of people that generally only a guild can meet.

    Firstly, because with a raid force made up of multiple PuG's there is an more of a headache in getting loot distributed with any level of fairness. Secondly because without the closeness of a guild people are more likely to not all work for the common goal, rather have each group do more of it's own thing on the average.

    Because of these factors if you are not in one of the guilds that can really handle the raid content, odds are that you will not experiance the raid content and actually get the good loot.

    Point being, if you can't get into a raiding guild, or don't have the time to play in a raid... You shouldn't be in an MMO.



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  • Fenrir767Fenrir767 Member Posts: 595
    Why should you not be in an MMO if you don't have the time to raid or can't get into a raiding guild. I don't see why small guilds should be gimped or why players that can't get into raidint guilds because they can't spend 30 hours a week raiding should be excluded from content. Many games have succeeded and without such restrictions like DAOC and City of Heroes. Why does raiding make up MMORGP in fact I would say that most of the games I see on the forum list doesn't require you to farm raids for gear just so you can stay competive in aspects of the game that have nothing to do with raiding.

    Originally posted by Haruto

    40 is just a nice even number to show how you need a group of people that generally only a guild can meet.

    Firstly, because with a raid force made up of multiple PuG's there is an more of a headache in getting loot distributed with any level of fairness. Secondly because without the closeness of a guild people are more likely to not all work for the common goal, rather have each group do more of it's own thing on the average.

    Because of these factors if you are not in one of the guilds that can really handle the raid content, odds are that you will not experiance the raid content and actually get the good loot.

    Point being, if you can't get into a raiding guild, or don't have the time to play in a raid... You shouldn't be in an MMO.




  • fizzle322fizzle322 Member Posts: 723
    Why the hell would you play a massively multiplayer game unless you wanted to participate on a massively multiplayer scale??

    I don't get people.

    "Yeah I wanna be in a world full of thousands of people, but I wanna play solo."

    You don't want a MMORPG you want a solo RPG so you can pwn everyone and win the game.


  • Fenrir767Fenrir767 Member Posts: 595
    I think your missing the negative points. I like raiding I love pvp and I love playing with other players me and other players like myself don't want to have to be forced to rely on 39 other people in order to enjoy the game and to get items in order to be competitive in other aspects of the game. Killing Ragnaros with my guild for the first time was so awesome. But having to do it over and over again to not get my ass handed to me when I wanted to pvp is lame.

    Then again if WoW wasn't so gear based this kinda of thing wouldn't happen


  • fizzle322fizzle322 Member Posts: 723
    If wow wasnt so gear based it would be medieval counterstrike.

  • fizzle322fizzle322 Member Posts: 723
    medieval counterstrike of course minus the need to aim.

    So we would be mashing keys and hoping one of us got a higher dice roll.

    I dunno. Bottom line, if it aint fun play something else.


  • Fenrir767Fenrir767 Member Posts: 595
    no it wouldn't the game could be skill based. Plenty of games have succeeded in that aspect such as SWG before they fucked it all up. DaoC with its RvRvR combat which was more about players skill and working together than running around with an askhandi owning people. Just take a look at a lot of other games where sure having a batter weapon makes you bad ass but just because your weapon and armor is ok doesn't mean your a free kill.

  • fizzle322fizzle322 Member Posts: 723

    Sounds like sour grapes to me.

    Some guy owned you because he had better gear. Sounds like they also had a better understanding of their class and how its supposed to be used.

    Rogue in a BG is at a natural disadvantage.


  • dinkdink Member Posts: 438


    Originally posted by fizzle322
    Why the hell would you play a massively multiplayer game unless you wanted to participate on a massively multiplayer scale??

    I don't get people.

    "Yeah I wanna be in a world full of thousands of people, but I wanna play solo."

    You don't want a MMORPG you want a solo RPG so you can pwn everyone and win the game.

    5-man with 8 minions is multiplayer, though not "massively multiplayer".  A lot of people play MMOs because they want to play with their friends, but that doesn't mean that they automatically want to have to join uber guilds and play with weekly schedules or have to mess with point-scale systems to distribute loot.

    Also, many players would like to play PvP, but they hate PvE instances. 

    Only 25% of players access raids in WoW and only 25% of those 25% (about 5% of all gamers) ever do the large 40-man raids - and that number includes those guilds that just poke their head in, get killed, and never come back.

    Also, many people have real life concerns that keep them from alotting two evenings a week to 4 hour sessions.  They have to raid on the night that their kids are out or the night before their day off work.

    40-man raids are extremely exclusive content, and I think that opening these up by making them 5-man affairs would increase accessability to the game. . .  not only in endgame PvE, but by letting people have similar footing in PvP with great loot.

  • Kraven83Kraven83 Member Posts: 16


    Why the hell would you play a massively multiplayer game unless you wanted to participate on a massively multiplayer scale??

    I don't get people.

    "Yeah I wanna be in a world full of thousands of people, but I wanna play solo."

    You don't want a MMORPG you want a solo RPG so you can pwn everyone and win the game.


    Playing an MMORPG yes should require to groupe with ppl. But at the same time, people don't want to sit in 40 man raids to get gear. It feels like such a waste of time doing that. Grouping with 5-10 people seems more fun, and somewhat more organized. I love grouping with people. But not with 40, and not to just hope I get some gear, when 8 out of 10 times you don't get what you were looking for. Blizzard needs to do something about this, because this will be what kills this game. More rewards for PvP should be added. And they should have more mass PvP, like raiding castles and what not. That would definetly keep people around. I know I would love to particpate in that.

  • Unknown

    Originally posted by fizzle322
    Why the hell would you play a massively multiplayer game unless you wanted to participate on a massively multiplayer scale??

    I don't get people.

    "Yeah I wanna be in a world full of thousands of people, but I wanna play solo."

    You don't want a MMORPG you want a solo RPG so you can pwn everyone and win the game.

    Why do couples goto dance clubs when they only dance with each other?

    Why do people goto bars when they can drink with their friends at home?

    Why do people go out to eat at restaurants when they could cook at home?

    Maybe its not as simple at you think.

  • PantasticPantastic Member Posts: 1,204

    Originally posted by fizzle322
    Why the hell would you play a massively multiplayer game unless you wanted to participate on a massively multiplayer scale??

    That's what I wonder about raiders, they're the ones who explicitly avoid the MM part of an MMORPG. Interacting almost exclusively with the 60-200 people in your raid guild is not 'massive', but that's what you do when you're raiding. You don't actually go do things outside of your guild except on very rare occasions.

    "Yeah, I wanne be in a world full of thousands of people, but I want to play only with the tiny portion of them that are on my DKP system."

    I don't get people."Yeah I wanna be in a world full of thousands of people, but I wanna play solo. "You don't want a MMORPG you want a solo RPG so you can pwn everyone and win the game.

    I find it fascinating that so many WOW raiders seem to think the choices are 'raid' and 'solo', even though WOW has lots of content from 1-60 that is not raid and yet not solo either. And the comments about wanting to 'pwn everyone' are always ironic coming from people who get gear that gives them an 'I WIN' button when PVPing against non-raiders.

  • PantasticPantastic Member Posts: 1,204

    Oh, and when thinking about what gestalt11 wrote, also consider about what happens if you do have a party with 40 or more people (not sure how many raiders have experienced this sort of thing, LOL). You don't see all 40 people get together and talk, they split up into more manageable groups. Typically after a bit you'll see people in groups of 5-7 holding conversations, not 40 all at once.

  • LokimerLokimer Member Posts: 89

    Just a thought, but isn't interacting with up to 200 people in your guild acually kinda.. massive. I dont' get how it's not. Sure there are thousands on the server, but guilds don't limit what you do during off raid times unless they're crazy cults or something.

    We don't have a broke game, we have broke players.

  • dinkdink Member Posts: 438

    Hmm. . .   I was hoping more people would respond to the poll.

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