Cynically speaking, it's easier for your fans to jump on "haters" and "trolls" that write bad things about the game compared to showing video that proves those things are true.
That said, videos and images are often centerpieces for planned marketing campaigns, so I can understand wanting to control them. If I'm the developer planning on doing a "combat system reveal" video, then I want to control what's being shown and pump it up on social media, not have a tester scoop me on it. I think that's fair.
But Stephen has stated that this is NOT a “marketing Alpha”.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Pretty standard thing to have. It's usually covered in the very first sections of NDAs - you know, those that define what the NDA actually covers. Images, art, audio, text - that sort of thing...
If you're trying to make a story out of such a non-issue, might I suggest taking a short break from AoC? Judging by your recent posts regarding AoC, I don't think you're taking it well.
Could you link a single article for any other game that refers to verbal NDAs and visual NDAs on this site?
You know since it's so standard.
This was already answered by myself and others earlier in the thread.
so now people can tell you how bad the game is, but they cant show you.
Pretty much. My guess is they don't want people streaming.
Most NDAs I've signed have been very specific about what I can and can't disclose, how and when. Most have even stated that you're not allowed to disclose you've signed an NDA and are testing, while some allow you to state that you're testing and have signed and NDA but may disclose nothing else.
NDAs are just signed agreements between two parties. I guess it gives the studio some legal recourse if you break the conditions of the agreement. It also is an easy way for them to blackball people who don't abide by them which makes getting into any further tests more difficult.
It used to be you'd need to list the games you've tested before being accepted into a group. Now people can just buy their way in through crowd-funding.
I remember listing games. I used to beta test a lot but I stopped when I stopped finding the actual release any fun.
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Yeah, act as though you don't know the difference and that they aren't both used frequently.
Can you link an article which sites a specific example of a game company doing this? I looked but can't find any previous occasions of this actually occuring.
I doubt there is an article explaining the practice as it is so widely used and accepted. Anytime you see a preview/review of a game using dev supplied gameplay in the background it's exactly this. It's fairly standard, Cyberpunk is one of the more recent titles to do it before release. I'm not saying its a good practice, just that this is most definitely not something that the blowhard from AOC created.
Edit... Also see the post above me for other examples.
I think what @Kyleran is getting at is that when a studio lifts a NDA it lifts the entire contract, not just parts of it. And contrary to your assertion, that is not common practice, in order for an NDA to be binding no parts of the NDA can be public knowledge. So if the studio wanted to maintain any sort of legal ability to recoup losses they would need to keep the entire project under wraps.
I am under NDA's from the service, from courses I teach etc. They all have very specific language as I am sure game testing NDA's do. It's not far fetched to imagine they had a contract that stated specifics of the game play that can/cannot be discussed. As others have mentioned here it sounds like they want people talking about this game in order to produce some "hype" so when their designated streamers go "live" they are the only people with the keys to the video portion. Sounds more like a marketing strategy than an industry secrets strategy because as I mentioned above in order for an NDA to be effective all of the project needs to not be public knowledge.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Yeah, act as though you don't know the difference and that they aren't both used frequently.
Can you link an article which sites a specific example of a game company doing this? I looked but can't find any previous occasions of this actually occuring.
I doubt there is an article explaining the practice as it is so widely used and accepted. Anytime you see a preview/review of a game using dev supplied gameplay in the background it's exactly this. It's fairly standard, Cyberpunk is one of the more recent titles to do it before release. I'm not saying its a good practice, just that this is most definitely not something that the blowhard from AOC created.
Edit... Also see the post above me for other examples.
I think what @Kyleran is getting at is that when a studio lifts a NDA it lifts the entire contract, not just parts of it. And contrary to your assertion, that is not common practice, in order for an NDA to be binding no parts of the NDA can be public knowledge. So if the studio wanted to maintain any sort of legal ability to recoup losses they would need to keep the entire project under wraps.
I am under NDA's from the service, from courses I teach etc. They all have very specific language as I am sure game testing NDA's do. It's not far fetched to imagine they had a contract that stated specifics of the game play that can/cannot be discussed. As others have mentioned here it sounds like they want people talking about this game in order to produce some "hype" so when their designated streamers go "live" they are the only people with the keys to the video portion. Sounds more like a marketing strategy than an industry secrets strategy because as I mentioned above in order for an NDA to be effective all of the project needs to not be public knowledge.
I agree that it is indeed the usual practice to lift the entire NDA in one go. However, it is also perfectly normal for the company to do it in stages, if they so decide. The standard NDA format allows it.
I've been under NDAs in my employment and for a couple of game testing sessions. The NDA normally specifies the exact elements covered by it; itd can be very broad (i.e. 'everything you learn about while employed by our company is under NDA unless you get a written clearance from us beforehand') or very specific, listing individual items it covers; or somewhere in between - 'NDA applies to your work here, in particular to activity X, Y, Z...'
Games are usually in the second category (at least in my experience) and list the individual elements of the game and testing that are under the NDA - images, art, sounds, story, text, game systems, etc. Usually - at least in the very first phases - it also covers verbal NDA, i.e. written and oral descriptions of the game, its assets, performance, etc. (and usually also the fact that you are part of the test).
This makes it easier to lift the NDA in stages, if the company so desires. It doesn't really compromise the rest of the NDA - unless your descriptions are especially colourful and evocative, that is.
It might be the first time on this site that people see the expression 'verbal NDA', but that does not make it rare or unheard of - it's just one element previously covered by the NDA that is now being lifted.
However, it does seem as though some posters (in general) are happy to be triggered by the tiniest news and simply love to make mountains out of molehills.
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Pretty standard thing to have. It's usually covered in the very first sections of NDAs - you know, those that define what the NDA actually covers. Images, art, audio, text - that sort of thing...
If you're trying to make a story out of such a non-issue, might I suggest taking a short break from AoC? Judging by your recent posts regarding AoC, I don't think you're taking it well.
Could you link a single article for any other game that refers to verbal NDAs and visual NDAs on this site?
You know since it's so standard.
This was already answered by myself and others earlier in the thread.
You mean where you said it was so widely used and accepted that there isn't a single article on it?
That's just a contradiction supplying zero proof.
If this was any type of common practice we would have seen at least one article about it. It isn't. We have not.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Pretty standard thing to have. It's usually covered in the very first sections of NDAs - you know, those that define what the NDA actually covers. Images, art, audio, text - that sort of thing...
If you're trying to make a story out of such a non-issue, might I suggest taking a short break from AoC? Judging by your recent posts regarding AoC, I don't think you're taking it well.
Could you link a single article for any other game that refers to verbal NDAs and visual NDAs on this site?
You know since it's so standard.
This was already answered by myself and others earlier in the thread.
You mean where you said it was so widely used and accepted that there isn't a single article on it?
That's just a contradiction supplying zero proof.
If this was any type of common practice we would have seen at least one article about it. It isn't. We have not.
So many replies in this thread even talk about others personal experience with similar NDA. I also mentioned Pantheon has done this as well. Im not sure what people are so upset about. Why this is good for gamers? Devs tend to put the most positive spin on their game they can and normally show you only whats working and looking best in their game.
We have tones of gamers going over their time over the past week in Ashes from many different angles. From what I have read, the game feels very Pre-Alpha. Combat is chunky and lots of rubber banding issues. But its what we expect when most of the class systems is not in the game or the sub classes.
From what we read, dont get your expectations up this game will be ready to release soon. They are a year + before they are ready at the earliest. This verbal NDA was awesome and I am so happy IS did this.
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Pretty standard thing to have. It's usually covered in the very first sections of NDAs - you know, those that define what the NDA actually covers. Images, art, audio, text - that sort of thing...
If you're trying to make a story out of such a non-issue, might I suggest taking a short break from AoC? Judging by your recent posts regarding AoC, I don't think you're taking it well.
Could you link a single article for any other game that refers to verbal NDAs and visual NDAs on this site?
You know since it's so standard.
This was already answered by myself and others earlier in the thread.
You mean where you said it was so widely used and accepted that there isn't a single article on it?
That's just a contradiction supplying zero proof.
If this was any type of common practice we would have seen at least one article about it. It isn't. We have not.
So many replies in this thread even talk about others personal experience with similar NDA. I also mentioned Pantheon has done this as well. Im not sure what people are so upset about. Why this is good for gamers? Devs tend to put the most positive spin on their game they can and normally show you only whats working and looking best in their game.
We have tones of gamers going over their time over the past week in Ashes from many different angles. From what I have read, the game feels very Pre-Alpha. Combat is chunky and lots of rubber banding issues. But its what we expect when most of the class systems is not in the game or the sub classes.
From what we read, dont get your expectations up this game will be ready to release soon. They are a year + before they are ready at the earliest. This verbal NDA was awesome and I am so happy IS did this.
I totally missed that. When did Pantheon lift the verbal NDA and keep the visual one?
Got a link?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Pretty standard thing to have. It's usually covered in the very first sections of NDAs - you know, those that define what the NDA actually covers. Images, art, audio, text - that sort of thing...
If you're trying to make a story out of such a non-issue, might I suggest taking a short break from AoC? Judging by your recent posts regarding AoC, I don't think you're taking it well.
Could you link a single article for any other game that refers to verbal NDAs and visual NDAs on this site?
You know since it's so standard.
This was already answered by myself and others earlier in the thread.
You mean where you said it was so widely used and accepted that there isn't a single article on it?
That's just a contradiction supplying zero proof.
If this was any type of common practice we would have seen at least one article about it. It isn't. We have not.
So many replies in this thread even talk about others personal experience with similar NDA. I also mentioned Pantheon has done this as well. Im not sure what people are so upset about. Why this is good for gamers? Devs tend to put the most positive spin on their game they can and normally show you only whats working and looking best in their game.
We have tones of gamers going over their time over the past week in Ashes from many different angles. From what I have read, the game feels very Pre-Alpha. Combat is chunky and lots of rubber banding issues. But its what we expect when most of the class systems is not in the game or the sub classes.
From what we read, dont get your expectations up this game will be ready to release soon. They are a year + before they are ready at the earliest. This verbal NDA was awesome and I am so happy IS did this.
I totally missed that. When did Pantheon lift the verbal NDA and keep the visual one?
Got a link?
This was with select VIP members. They did that shortly after they rebuilt the game with Houdini. Was mainly there to show us that the core game was still playable. It was not a perma lift of the NDA, just for that play session. An NDA can cover just about any scope the game devs need but enforcing it is not easy.
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Pretty standard thing to have. It's usually covered in the very first sections of NDAs - you know, those that define what the NDA actually covers. Images, art, audio, text - that sort of thing...
If you're trying to make a story out of such a non-issue, might I suggest taking a short break from AoC? Judging by your recent posts regarding AoC, I don't think you're taking it well.
Could you link a single article for any other game that refers to verbal NDAs and visual NDAs on this site?
You know since it's so standard.
This was already answered by myself and others earlier in the thread.
You mean where you said it was so widely used and accepted that there isn't a single article on it?
That's just a contradiction supplying zero proof.
If this was any type of common practice we would have seen at least one article about it. It isn't. We have not.
So many replies in this thread even talk about others personal experience with similar NDA. I also mentioned Pantheon has done this as well. Im not sure what people are so upset about. Why this is good for gamers? Devs tend to put the most positive spin on their game they can and normally show you only whats working and looking best in their game.
We have tones of gamers going over their time over the past week in Ashes from many different angles. From what I have read, the game feels very Pre-Alpha. Combat is chunky and lots of rubber banding issues. But its what we expect when most of the class systems is not in the game or the sub classes.
From what we read, dont get your expectations up this game will be ready to release soon. They are a year + before they are ready at the earliest. This verbal NDA was awesome and I am so happy IS did this.
I totally missed that. When did Pantheon lift the verbal NDA and keep the visual one?
Got a link?
This was with select VIP members. They did that shortly after they rebuilt the game with Houdini. Was mainly there to show us that the core game was still playable. It was not a perma lift of the NDA, just for that play session. An NDA can cover just about any scope the game devs need but enforcing it is not easy.
You can practically see the strings moving the streamers arms and legs in Pantheon's "demos."
I did find some leaked Ashes content...but have to warn the video quality is a bit weak...but still only in Alpha, amirite?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not seeing the problem with this especially when the full NDA drop is just a month or so away. It's just another partial NDA lift and I don't really care whether it's all about managing PR. The point is that those who know and couldn't talk about it now can.
Some of those first hand accounts in this thread would be good.
Sad state of affairs when reddit threads on this subject are much more informative than the posts here. Like this one:
That's much more interesting to me, rough as that video might be (at least he tried to match what he was talking about with readily available non-NDA footage), than the finer details of partial NDA drops... but that's just me
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Of course from the guy who came up with things like Alpha Test 1 Preview Pre-Test 1...
Lets be honest here. There is no apparent plan at all. He is making shit up day by day as he manages from one crisis to another. This is obviously an attempt to change the conversation from his ill-received Discord post and subsequent apology.
Yeah, act as though you don't know the difference and that they aren't both used frequently.
Can you link an article which sites a specific example of a game company doing this? I looked but can't find any previous occasions of this actually occuring.
I doubt there is an article explaining the practice as it is so widely used and accepted. Anytime you see a preview/review of a game using dev supplied gameplay in the background it's exactly this. It's fairly standard, Cyberpunk is one of the more recent titles to do it before release. I'm not saying its a good practice, just that this is most definitely not something that the blowhard from AOC created.
Edit... Also see the post above me for other examples.
I think what @Kyleran is getting at is that when a studio lifts a NDA it lifts the entire contract, not just parts of it. And contrary to your assertion, that is not common practice, in order for an NDA to be binding no parts of the NDA can be public knowledge. So if the studio wanted to maintain any sort of legal ability to recoup losses they would need to keep the entire project under wraps.
I am under NDA's from the service, from courses I teach etc. They all have very specific language as I am sure game testing NDA's do. It's not far fetched to imagine they had a contract that stated specifics of the game play that can/cannot be discussed. As others have mentioned here it sounds like they want people talking about this game in order to produce some "hype" so when their designated streamers go "live" they are the only people with the keys to the video portion. Sounds more like a marketing strategy than an industry secrets strategy because as I mentioned above in order for an NDA to be effective all of the project needs to not be public knowledge.
I agree that it is indeed the usual practice to lift the entire NDA in one go. However, it is also perfectly normal for the company to do it in stages, if they so decide. The standard NDA format allows it.
I've been under NDAs in my employment and for a couple of game testing sessions. The NDA normally specifies the exact elements covered by it; itd can be very broad (i.e. 'everything you learn about while employed by our company is under NDA unless you get a written clearance from us beforehand') or very specific, listing individual items it covers; or somewhere in between - 'NDA applies to your work here, in particular to activity X, Y, Z...'
Games are usually in the second category (at least in my experience) and list the individual elements of the game and testing that are under the NDA - images, art, sounds, story, text, game systems, etc. Usually - at least in the very first phases - it also covers verbal NDA, i.e. written and oral descriptions of the game, its assets, performance, etc. (and usually also the fact that you are part of the test).
This makes it easier to lift the NDA in stages, if the company so desires. It doesn't really compromise the rest of the NDA - unless your descriptions are especially colourful and evocative, that is.
It might be the first time on this site that people see the expression 'verbal NDA', but that does not make it rare or unheard of - it's just one element previously covered by the NDA that is now being lifted.
However, it does seem as though some posters (in general) are happy to be triggered by the tiniest news and simply love to make mountains out of molehills.
I understand what you are saying, I just feel like (after reading quite a bit about it) lifting part of an NDA is going to make the rest of the NDA not able to be enforced as it would pertain to legal action.
For me, being able to test a game (as we used to in the "old" days), the threat of not being able to test anymore would suffice to keep me in line. If I were a streamer that happened to be testing and they said hey you could talk about it but not show it, and I streamed it anyway then ended up in court I feel like a Judge would have a hard time enforcing the NDA as part of the "secret" has been made public knowledge already.
I do not doubt that this language is commonly used, but I doubt the validity of the company being able to enforce it outside of their staff.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The game isn't even good for it to have an NDA in the first place. The combat is bad, the graphics look bad, visual effects look bad and it definitely doesn't have a story that will blow your mind.
I may have missed it. But I haven't seen a single person who defended the "verbal NDA drop" give any feedback on the game. If I missed the posts please link so I can read up on your thoughts.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I may have missed it. But I haven't seen a single person who defended the "verbal NDA drop" give any feedback on the game. If I missed the posts please link so I can read up on your thoughts.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I may have missed it. But I haven't seen a single person who defended the "verbal NDA drop" give any feedback on the game. If I missed the posts please link so I can read up on your thoughts.
Yes it is. And what is even weirder is that there have only been 4 threads started in the Ashes forum in the last 7 months (and two were by me)! 62 TOTAL replies... in 7 months.
You would think, at least after this "big verbal NDA drop" that the place would be flooded with folks giving their opinions and thoughts on the actual game they played...
Curious.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes it is. And what is even weirder is that there have only been 4 threads started in the Ashes forum in the last 7 months (and two were by me)! 62 TOTAL replies... in 7 months.
You would think, at least after this "big verbal NDA drop" that the place would be flooded with folks giving their opinions and thoughts on the actual game they played...
Curious.
"Flooded by folks giving their opinions"......Who do you think is going to flood this forum?
You've been here long enough to know that every thread on this website is populated by the same 2 dozen or so posters. There may be an uptick next month when the full NDA drops but even then I doubt anyone is going to be rushing to post on this site.
Yes it is. And what is even weirder is that there have only been 4 threads started in the Ashes forum in the last 7 months (and two were by me)! 62 TOTAL replies... in 7 months.
You would think, at least after this "big verbal NDA drop" that the place would be flooded with folks giving their opinions and thoughts on the actual game they played...
Curious.
"Flooded by folks giving their opinions"......Who do you think is going to flood this forum?
You've been here long enough to know that every thread on this website is populated by the same 2 dozen or so posters. There may be an uptick next month when the full NDA drops but even then I doubt anyone is going to be rushing to post on this site.
Not true at all. You’ve had 600 posts and the first time I noticed was this thread. There are far more people that post and read here than you think. Just glancing at this week’s “leaderboard” and I only recognize 2 of the ten names.
Just because folks post in threads you don’t follow (or I don’t) doesn’t mean they aren’t here.
Even the official Reddit is lacking. Sure there are a dozen or so videos people dropped which mostly contain “it’s a technical beta so temper expectations. Oh yeah here is my referral code if you use it I can make some money”, but very little discussion around it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes it is. And what is even weirder is that there have only been 4 threads started in the Ashes forum in the last 7 months (and two were by me)! 62 TOTAL replies... in 7 months.
You would think, at least after this "big verbal NDA drop" that the place would be flooded with folks giving their opinions and thoughts on the actual game they played...
Curious.
"Flooded by folks giving their opinions"......Who do you think is going to flood this forum?
You've been here long enough to know that every thread on this website is populated by the same 2 dozen or so posters. There may be an uptick next month when the full NDA drops but even then I doubt anyone is going to be rushing to post on this site.
Not true at all. You’ve had 600 posts and the first time I noticed was this thread. There are far more people that post and read here than you think. Just glancing at this week’s “leaderboard” and I only recognize 2 of the ten names.
Just because folks post in threads you don’t follow (or I don’t) doesn’t mean they aren’t here.
Even the official Reddit is lacking. Sure there are a dozen or so videos people dropped which mostly contain “it’s a technical beta so temper expectations. Oh yeah here is my referral code if you use it I can make some money”, but very little discussion around it.
I'm not entirely sure what would be expected when to 'test' the game has a buy-in of 500$. Most 'opinions' with a price-tag like that aren't going to be really 'informative' imo outside of typical PR to defend the sunken-cost (of course if they were given access for 'free' which of course would sway the 'opinion' more in this favor). My main observation as to why the visual NDA hasn't dropped yet is because its harder to 'spin' outside of the the typical 'of course it looks like that, its alpha.' I don't really have any skin in this game, so if it comes out, it comes out. Them trying to delay stuff to build 'hype' around an alpha doesn't hold water to me since people have to pay to test it anyway. The logic that someone is going to pay 500$ to enter a test phase yet choose not to because "TBC: Classic" or "ESO's new expansion" whatever excuse still sounds too silly to me. If anything, they should've had the alpha start and treat it like an actual alpha, giving it a few months to properly test stuff, while having free stress test weekends to get better data.....but maybe I'm just old school in thinking test phases were actually for testing.
Yes it is. And what is even weirder is that there have only been 4 threads started in the Ashes forum in the last 7 months (and two were by me)! 62 TOTAL replies... in 7 months.
You would think, at least after this "big verbal NDA drop" that the place would be flooded with folks giving their opinions and thoughts on the actual game they played...
Curious.
"Flooded by folks giving their opinions"......Who do you think is going to flood this forum?
You've been here long enough to know that every thread on this website is populated by the same 2 dozen or so posters. There may be an uptick next month when the full NDA drops but even then I doubt anyone is going to be rushing to post on this site.
Not true at all. You’ve had 600 posts and the first time I noticed was this thread. There are far more people that post and read here than you think. Just glancing at this week’s “leaderboard” and I only recognize 2 of the ten names.
Just because folks post in threads you don’t follow (or I don’t) doesn’t mean they aren’t here.
Even the official Reddit is lacking. Sure there are a dozen or so videos people dropped which mostly contain “it’s a technical beta so temper expectations. Oh yeah here is my referral code if you use it I can make some money”, but very little discussion around it.
I'm not entirely sure what would be expected when to 'test' the game has a buy-in of 500$. Most 'opinions' with a price-tag like that aren't going to be really 'informative' imo outside of typical PR to defend the sunken-cost (of course if they were given access for 'free' which of course would sway the 'opinion' more in this favor). My main observation as to why the visual NDA hasn't dropped yet is because its harder to 'spin' outside of the the typical 'of course it looks like that, its alpha.'
Well, before he put them back on sale a month or so ago, I’m pretty sure Stephen said they had sold 10,000 Alpha access packages but maybe it was not packages that included the Limited Preview Pre-Test of the Pre-Alpha 1 client or whatever he’s calling this. Who knows.
As for sunken cost... I dunno. I still think it’s more based on the referral thing where people can make 15% real cash for whatever their referrals purchase, in perpetuity. So everyone is incentivized to “sell” the game. Heck on Reddit I even saw a bizarre video from Elloa who is supposed to be the Community Manager for Saga of Lucimia asking people to use her referral links for AoC.
A friend of mine has access. I trust them. What they have told me is that there is somewhat of a game there, but it is years away from release. It’s not a pure scam. The graphics can look very nice, but there are a lot of issues with clipping, lag, rubberbanding, etc... The combat is an utter mess. The main unique feature (nodes) are very rudimentary. If expectations had not been set by Stephen that this game was much further along, he would have been fine with it. But he is disappointed by the state of the game VS what he was led to believe. He said: Christmas 2023 would be realistic for release, maybe, if they can get the lag and desynching fixed with more players. And his words as well”I have no idea why they want a push from the Streamers in July when this game is in an embryonic state.”
I was hoping that some of our posters who had access would give more color and context to what the state of the game really is. More people with actual experience is far better information than just press releases and news clips.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
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All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
I think what @Kyleran is getting at is that when a studio lifts a NDA it lifts the entire contract, not just parts of it. And contrary to your assertion, that is not common practice, in order for an NDA to be binding no parts of the NDA can be public knowledge. So if the studio wanted to maintain any sort of legal ability to recoup losses they would need to keep the entire project under wraps.
I am under NDA's from the service, from courses I teach etc. They all have very specific language as I am sure game testing NDA's do. It's not far fetched to imagine they had a contract that stated specifics of the game play that can/cannot be discussed. As others have mentioned here it sounds like they want people talking about this game in order to produce some "hype" so when their designated streamers go "live" they are the only people with the keys to the video portion. Sounds more like a marketing strategy than an industry secrets strategy because as I mentioned above in order for an NDA to be effective all of the project needs to not be public knowledge.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I agree that it is indeed the usual practice to lift the entire NDA in one go. However, it is also perfectly normal for the company to do it in stages, if they so decide. The standard NDA format allows it.
I've been under NDAs in my employment and for a couple of game testing sessions. The NDA normally specifies the exact elements covered by it; itd can be very broad (i.e. 'everything you learn about while employed by our company is under NDA unless you get a written clearance from us beforehand') or very specific, listing individual items it covers; or somewhere in between - 'NDA applies to your work here, in particular to activity X, Y, Z...'
Games are usually in the second category (at least in my experience) and list the individual elements of the game and testing that are under the NDA - images, art, sounds, story, text, game systems, etc. Usually - at least in the very first phases - it also covers verbal NDA, i.e. written and oral descriptions of the game, its assets, performance, etc. (and usually also the fact that you are part of the test).
This makes it easier to lift the NDA in stages, if the company so desires. It doesn't really compromise the rest of the NDA - unless your descriptions are especially colourful and evocative, that is.
It might be the first time on this site that people see the expression 'verbal NDA', but that does not make it rare or unheard of - it's just one element previously covered by the NDA that is now being lifted.
However, it does seem as though some posters (in general) are happy to be triggered by the tiniest news and simply love to make mountains out of molehills.
That's just a contradiction supplying zero proof.
If this was any type of common practice we would have seen at least one article about it. It isn't. We have not.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/We have tones of gamers going over their time over the past week in Ashes from many different angles. From what I have read, the game feels very Pre-Alpha. Combat is chunky and lots of rubber banding issues. But its what we expect when most of the class systems is not in the game or the sub classes.
From what we read, dont get your expectations up this game will be ready to release soon. They are a year + before they are ready at the earliest. This verbal NDA was awesome and I am so happy IS did this.
Got a link?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
I did find some leaked Ashes content...but have to warn the video quality is a bit weak...but still only in Alpha, amirite?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some of those first hand accounts in this thread would be good.
Sad state of affairs when reddit threads on this subject are much more informative than the posts here. Like this one:
That's much more interesting to me, rough as that video might be (at least he tried to match what he was talking about with readily available non-NDA footage), than the finer details of partial NDA drops... but that's just me
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For me, being able to test a game (as we used to in the "old" days), the threat of not being able to test anymore would suffice to keep me in line. If I were a streamer that happened to be testing and they said hey you could talk about it but not show it, and I streamed it anyway then ended up in court I feel like a Judge would have a hard time enforcing the NDA as part of the "secret" has been made public knowledge already.
I do not doubt that this language is commonly used, but I doubt the validity of the company being able to enforce it outside of their staff.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You would think, at least after this "big verbal NDA drop" that the place would be flooded with folks giving their opinions and thoughts on the actual game they played...
Curious.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You've been here long enough to know that every thread on this website is populated by the same 2 dozen or so posters. There may be an uptick next month when the full NDA drops but even then I doubt anyone is going to be rushing to post on this site.
Just because folks post in threads you don’t follow (or I don’t) doesn’t mean they aren’t here.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm not entirely sure what would be expected when to 'test' the game has a buy-in of 500$. Most 'opinions' with a price-tag like that aren't going to be really 'informative' imo outside of typical PR to defend the sunken-cost (of course if they were given access for 'free' which of course would sway the 'opinion' more in this favor). My main observation as to why the visual NDA hasn't dropped yet is because its harder to 'spin' outside of the the typical 'of course it looks like that, its alpha.' I don't really have any skin in this game, so if it comes out, it comes out. Them trying to delay stuff to build 'hype' around an alpha doesn't hold water to me since people have to pay to test it anyway. The logic that someone is going to pay 500$ to enter a test phase yet choose not to because "TBC: Classic" or "ESO's new expansion" whatever excuse still sounds too silly to me. If anything, they should've had the alpha start and treat it like an actual alpha, giving it a few months to properly test stuff, while having free stress test weekends to get better data.....but maybe I'm just old school in thinking test phases were actually for testing.
As for sunken cost... I dunno. I still think it’s more based on the referral thing where people can make 15% real cash for whatever their referrals purchase, in perpetuity. So everyone is incentivized to “sell” the game. Heck on Reddit I even saw a bizarre video from Elloa who is supposed to be the Community Manager for Saga of Lucimia asking people to use her referral links for AoC.
A friend of mine has access. I trust them. What they have told me is that there is somewhat of a game there, but it is years away from release. It’s not a pure scam. The graphics can look very nice, but there are a lot of issues with clipping, lag, rubberbanding, etc... The combat is an utter mess. The main unique feature (nodes) are very rudimentary. If expectations had not been set by Stephen that this game was much further along, he would have been fine with it. But he is disappointed by the state of the game VS what he was led to believe. He said: Christmas 2023 would be realistic for release, maybe, if they can get the lag and desynching fixed with more players. And his words as well”I have no idea why they want a push from the Streamers in July when this game is in an embryonic state.”
I was hoping that some of our posters who had access would give more color and context to what the state of the game really is. More people with actual experience is far better information than just press releases and news clips.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018