If you canceled VSOH because of SOE...

hercules · May 2006

Originally posted by Benz00

Dude why would MS let a good game go? Ask your self that and you will find your answer.

MS would not let a good game go. Vangaurd is underdeveloped and way off the time frame of relese. MS DUMPED vangaurd Sigil didnt leave them lol. MS dumped the game and SONY bought it. But sigil is said to have the rights to making the game. But its all just typing. I perfer to think for my self.

heres what i think happend.

MS dumped vangaurd because it was underdelvolped. I cant see a huge company like MS dumping the "the future of MMOS" Why would they let such a good thing go? MS didnt let a good game go. They dumped a crappy game. And guess what SONY got its grubby little paws on it. SOE will take over the game sooner or later. The it will become part of the 699.99 Full game package along with SWG in its Xmas Pack for PS3.
i could be wrong this aint a flame at all i just try to look at the obivious. I dont belive everything i read and Companys like mircosoft dont rule the world by letting good games go. I trust MS more then i trust SOE or Sigil. We will all see when the game comes out, just dont hold to much hope.

This coming from the same M$ who published the now closed disaster known as asheron's call 2?

Maybe its possible M$ tried to pull a AC2 on sigil and started trying to force them to publish the game too soon or make changes they were unhappy with.

Deal went sour and both companies parted.

But i doubt after AC2,that M$ can spot an crappy mmorpg better then SoE can .

TarValon · May 2006

SOE is the "cancer" of the mmorpg world. I will no longer be purchasing Vanguard because of it. I instead will be playing LotRO and WoW xpansion. I liked everything I had read on Vanguard and felt it had enough $$ from M$ to make it happen. Then this turn of events happened. In my opinion its worst than becoming vaporware.

Enjoy....

NeuroXl · May 2006

Originally posted by TarValon

SOE is the "cancer" of the mmorpg world. I will no longer be purchasing Vanguard because of it. I instead will be playing LotRO and WoW xpansion. I liked everything I had read on Vanguard and felt it had enough $$ from M$ to make it happen. Then this turn of events happened. In my opinion its worst than becoming vaporware.
Enjoy....

im not going to buy vanguard or gods and heros either because of SOE ...

but lotr will be the same crap .. another franchise game ... and wow is getting old ...

just as a suggestion, check out warhammer, heros journey, fallen earth, Aion, Age of conan, SUN, Pirates of the burning sea, dark and light, tabula rosa ... lots of good stuff out there .. dont have to stick with the franchise stuff ( with exception to warhammer )

fiontar · May 2006

I've thought about this this weekend. I won't put a penny into the pockets of SOE. Never Again. If it turns out being the best MMO of the decade and the game I have been waiting for, I'll just have to cry into my milk over the bad luck that SOE snatched the game up.

I actually wonder if this game will ever see the light of day. It really seems far too similar to EQII to make much sense for SOE. If it's a smashing hit, SOE could put the sludge that is EQII on the back burner and make Vanguard it's flagship game. However, if it's only a moderate success, the competition in the same niche could bring both games down. It's very possible this was just a defensive move, with the intent of eventually killing the competition, scavanging personel and content for EQII as a consolation prize to Sigil to avoid complete bankruptcy.

Sigil made it's deal with the Devil, in my eyes, Vanguard is dead to me. Only time will tell if the deal also killed the game for the rest of the world.

Shayde · May 2006

Originally posted by fiontar
I've thought about this this weekend. I won't put a penny into the pockets of SOE. Never Again. If it turns out being the best MMO of the decade and the game I have been waiting for, I'll just have to cry into my milk over the bad luck that SOE snatched the game up.

I actually wonder if this game will ever see the light of day. It really seems far too similar to EQII to make much sense for SOE. If it's a smashing hit, SOE could put the sludge that is EQII on the back burner and make Vanguard it's flagship game. However, if it's only a moderate success, the competition in the same niche could bring both games down. It's very possible this was just a defensive move, with the intent of eventually killing the competition, scavanging personel and content for EQII as a consolation prize to Sigil to avoid complete bankruptcy.

Sigil made it's deal with the Devil, in my eyes, Vanguard is dead to me. Only time will tell if the deal also killed the game for the rest of the world.

Very well put.

cosy · May 2006

well i say the SEO "CSR" is kinda "sux" when u ask about bills and that is the biger problem on a CSR
i can live weeks whit a bug or days whit lag but i hate more is to take more money that have to take

hope VSOH will have more luck that other "SOE games"

sry about bad english

benoa · May 2006

I went into shock when i first heard the news, and i still feel like another shoe is about to drop any time now. That shoe being complete take over by soe. However i realized that while the games they develop are boring money siphons this game is not part of that group.

All depends on sigil's reputation, not soe's. And since Sigil has no track record there is no reason yet to throw in the towel.

My favorite mmorpg to date (and i have played MANY) was early eq1. I still have hope that sigil will deliver on the promise of creating it's true succeser.

OldManFunk · May 2006

Originally posted by benoa

All depends on sigil's reputation, not soe's. And since Sigil has no track record there is no reason yet to throw in the towel.

Uh, unless you consider that Sigil == Verant.

EQ2 tanked pretty hard when it released and has since been redesigned to be more player friendly or WoW-like.

Funny thing is... SOE was right to redo EQ2. EQ2 is better than it use to be.

SWG's changes were far too drastic far too late that solved far too little.

Had SOE revamped EQ2 sooner they may have held more players. SOE knows this.

It's got to be pretty tempting for SOE to tell Sigil that Vanguard needs to lighten up and be a little more WoW-like before it releases rather than have to change it later. First impressions mean far too much to a MMO's success.

It's going to be impossible to stay out of Vanguard once it bombs at release and fails to gain a substantial amount of interest. The longer SOE waits to get involved and make Vanguard appeal to more players the more SOE stands to lose on the investment.

Carufin · May 2006

Originally posted by jimmyman99
Judging from the posts, I think the whole SOE deal has split VSOH fans into 3 camps:

There's a reason Micro$oft kicked VSOH to the curb. That reason is because VSOH is a dog. Micro$oft knows what a dog MMO looks like, because they had Asheron's Call. One of the historical dogs of all time. I beta tested that dog a long time ago, and even it held my interest longer than the VSOH beta. I couldn't take 24 hours of VSOH, whereas I played Asheron's Call in beta for a good week before ditching it. When you're worse than Asheron's Call, you totally blow.

Let's look at the "revolutionary" features of VSOH:

1. Medieval/Mythological premise, with Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, etc.

2. Swords and Sorcery

3. Tanks that absorb damage, Wizards and Rogues that deal damage, Clerics that heal damage

4. Begin by killing snakes, rodents, etc.

Mmmkay. Is there any aspect listed above that hasn't been beaten into moldering, maggot infested pulp already by about ten thousand different online games? Do you suppose that grafting the Everquest II whack-a-mole crafting system into the game as an argument system and adding some modern texturing will be the salvation of a genre that is deader than the deadest horse ever beaten?

Brad needs to change his marijuana supplier, his brain is toast from that cheap Mexican brick weed.

So create now, and add me, to the fourth group of people who detest VSOH. Those who are sick and tired of endless re-runs and spinoffs of a gaming genre that is completely and utterly burned out. That will appeal only to those who've never played such a game before, which means pathetic 14 year olds who just got their first craptastic Dell machine and have Mommy's VISA card in hand.

SOE is buying VSOH to try to create the next WoW. The next lowest common denominatory, brain-dead, pathetic Sword and Sorcery MMORPG. One they hope will suck away all the mindless, brain-dead WoW players who they hope will be bored of that game by now, and are stupid enough to pay for another iteration of the same old crap. They were stupid enough to play WoW in the first place, after all.

beautyisin · May 2006

Originally posted by Carufin

Originally posted by jimmyman99
Judging from the posts, I think the whole SOE deal has split VSOH fans into 3 camps:

There's a reason Micro$oft kicked VSOH to the curb. That reason is because VSOH is a dog. Micro$oft knows what a dog MMO looks like, because they had Asheron's Call. One of the historical dogs of all time. I beta tested that dog a long time ago, and even it held my interest longer than the VSOH beta. I couldn't take 24 hours of VSOH, whereas I played Asheron's Call in beta for a good week before ditching it. When you're worse than Asheron's Call, you totally blow.

Let's look at the "revolutionary" features of VSOH:

1. Medieval/Mythological premise, with Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, etc.

2. Swords and Sorcery

3. Tanks that absorb damage, Wizards and Rogues that deal damage, Clerics that heal damage

4. Begin by killing snakes, rodents, etc.

Mmmkay. Is there any aspect listed above that hasn't been beaten into moldering, maggot infested pulp already by about ten thousand different online games? Do you suppose that grafting the Everquest II whack-a-mole crafting system into the game as an argument system and adding some modern texturing will be the salvation of a genre that is deader than the deadest horse ever beaten?

Brad needs to change his marijuana supplier, his brain is toast from that cheap Mexican brick weed.

So create now, and add me, to the fourth group of people who detest VSOH. Those who are sick and tired of endless re-runs and spinoffs of a gaming genre that is completely and utterly burned out. That will appeal only to those who've never played such a game before, which means pathetic 14 year olds who just got their first craptastic Dell machine and have Mommy's VISA card in hand.

SOE is buying VSOH to try to create the next WoW. The next lowest common denominatory, brain-dead, pathetic Sword and Sorcery MMORPG. One they hope will suck away all the mindless, brain-dead WoW players who they hope will be bored of that game by now, and are stupid enough to pay for another iteration of the same old crap. They were stupid enough to play WoW in the first place, after all.

This could be because there is a huge market for the Fantasy/Medieval genre.

dragonace · May 2006

Originally posted by Carufin

Originally posted by jimmyman99
Judging from the posts, I think the whole SOE deal has split VSOH fans into 3 camps:

There's a reason Micro$oft kicked VSOH to the curb. That reason is because VSOH is a dog. Micro$oft knows what a dog MMO looks like, because they had Asheron's Call.

And that would be the reason that MS still show-cased Vanguard in their booth at E3 too? Because it was a dog? Then why is MS still promoting it? Still planning on Vanguard being a premiere Vista game? Hmm.... I guess you're right.

One of the historical dogs of all time. I beta tested that dog a long time ago, and even it held my interest longer than the VSOH beta. I couldn't take 24 hours of VSOH, whereas I played Asheron's Call in beta for a good week before ditching it. When you're worse than Asheron's Call, you totally blow.

LOL! So, supposedly you were in beta (Beta 2 none-the-less) and you gave it 24 hours. (How many actual hours playing?) Heh, yup I'm sure you experienced all you'd ever need to know from that vigorous trial of an early Beta. Umm... o.k.

Let's look at the "revolutionary" features of VSOH:

1. Medieval/Mythological premise, with Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, etc.

Actually it's called Fantasy. Only the most popular MMO setting by a 3-1 margin. Yup, bad decision there. Oh and you forgot a "couple" of the other races:
Half-Giant,
Halfling, Barbarian, Human,
Vulmane,
Kurashasa, Goblin, Orc, Raki.

2. Swords and Sorcery

There you go that's close enough to Fantasy. Yup, they're going with the most popular MMO setting.

3. Tanks that absorb damage, Wizards and Rogues that deal damage, Clerics that heal damage
Pretty close. But you forgot about the Offensive Fighters. It's actually broken down like this:

Protective Fighters
Dread Knight

Inquisitor

Paladin

Warrior

Offensive Fighters
Bard

Berserker

Monk

Ranger

Rogue

Healers
Blood Mage

Cleric

Disciple

Shaman

Arcane Casters
Druid

Necromancer

Psionicist

Sorcerer
4. Begin by killing snakes, rodents, etc.
Well, seeing as I'm not in Beta and my crystal ball is in the shop --- not sure what to say here. But seeing as it's a Fantasy setting and all, you're probably right. And you would propose beginning with killing dragons, liches, and demi-gods? Not sure where you are going with that one. You got to start somewhere.

Mmmkay. Is there any aspect listed above that hasn't been beaten into moldering, maggot infested pulp already by about ten thousand different online games? Do you suppose that grafting the Everquest II whack-a-mole crafting system into the game as an argument system and adding some modern texturing will be the salvation of a genre that is deader than the deadest horse ever beaten?
Wow! I gotta admit you've got the knack for adjectives. See below for the summary.

Brad needs to change his marijuana supplier, his brain is toast from that cheap Mexican brick weed.
So create now, and add me, to the fourth group of people who detest VSOH. Those who are sick and tired of endless re-runs and spinoffs of a gaming genre that is completely and utterly burned out. That will appeal only to those who've never played such a game before, which means pathetic 14 year olds who just got their first craptastic Dell machine and have Mommy's VISA card in hand.
SOE is buying VSOH to try to create the next WoW. The next lowest common denominatory, brain-dead, pathetic Sword and Sorcery MMORPG. One they hope will suck away all the mindless, brain-dead WoW players who they hope will be bored of that game by now, and are stupid enough to pay for another iteration of the same old crap. They were stupid enough to play WoW in the first place, after all.

O.k. I could see where you're coming if... IF those 4 items from above were all that they had. But let me add just 4 you forgot to mention that EQ didn't have. (There are more, but since you kept it to 4 - figured that was all that's fair.)

1. Player-owned housing with 40,000+ craftable items

2. Non-instanced seemless world. (i.e. no zones)

3. Weather/season/time of day/special days affect gameplay (i.e. fire spells vs. ice/snow and arrows vs. wind/rain)

4. 3 seperate spheres of experience: adventuring, crafting, diplomacy.

Well, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out upon release. Who knows you may be right, but I guess I'm willing to give it a shot and base my opinion on the gameplay at that time.

hercules · May 2006

Originally posted by TarValon

SOE is the "cancer" of the mmorpg world. I will no longer be purchasing Vanguard because of it. I instead will be playing LotRO and WoW xpansion. I liked everything I had read on Vanguard and felt it had enough $$ from M$ to make it happen. Then this turn of events happened. In my opinion its worst than becoming vaporware.
Enjoy....

Soooo you trust turbine with LotRO with turbine who lets see made the disasters of AC2 and DDO ?

Seen too many posts here worth laughing at tbh.

hercules · May 2006

Originally posted by Shayde

Originally posted by fiontar
I've thought about this this weekend. I won't put a penny into the pockets of SOE. Never Again. If it turns out being the best MMO of the decade and the game I have been waiting for, I'll just have to cry into my milk over the bad luck that SOE snatched the game up.

I actually wonder if this game will ever see the light of day. It really seems far too similar to EQII to make much sense for SOE. If it's a smashing hit, SOE could put the sludge that is EQII on the back burner and make Vanguard it's flagship game. However, if it's only a moderate success, the competition in the same niche could bring both games down. It's very possible this was just a defensive move, with the intent of eventually killing the competition, scavanging personel and content for EQII as a consolation prize to Sigil to avoid complete bankruptcy.

Sigil made it's deal with the Devil, in my eyes, Vanguard is dead to me. Only time will tell if the deal also killed the game for the rest of the world.

Very well put.

You guys need some sunlight honestly.Conspiracy theories are best left to the lunatics

LilT · May 2006

Originally posted by Amathe

There is one point that gets overlooked in the Sigil/SOE debate. If this was a single player game, it wouldn't make a damn who Sigil co-publishes with. You pay your $50 for a one shot deal and you like the game or you don't. But this is a mmorpg that touts, as one of its selling points, that you can play it for years. So let's say you buy into the PR of SOE's "limited role" and invest 400-600 hours of your time into Vanguard. Then whoops-a-daisy Sigil sells its interest to SOE, who, as they have done before, decide to re-do the essential nature of the game. That really sucks. Will it happen? No one can say, but you can be sure it is a lot more likely to happen now than it was before this deal. So you can't merely look at SOE's role as of today. You have to consider the impact of their role in the future after you sink months of your life into this game.

I just had to qfe this post. It is my reasoning for staying as far from Vanguard as possible.

No conspiracy theories, no crazy emotions, just common sense.

wjrasmussen · May 2006

Originally posted by Benz00

I like you.

Easy To explain.

Devs dont make games that are fun for everyone to play. Devs dont care about anyone in the gaming world. Devs dont give a Chit about how you fell about them. Devs make games to make MONEY. (period if you dont understand and think "brad likes us gamers" your in idiot) Not that brad is a bad guy he just wants to make YOUR money. He will tell you what ever you want to hear to make YOUR money. I like how people think that brad cares about people on the forums lmao

Don't bring up logic in this type of situation. LOL. But I agree. $$$$$$ and for MS to walk away from $, which they don't, tells something...

wjrasmussen · May 2006

Originally posted by jimmyman99
To answer some of the thoughs posted here:

SOE will have NO effect on the development of VSOH. I cannot stress that enough.

In conclusion, I ask everyone not to dismiss Vanguard just becuase SOE will host their servers. I dont even think Vanguard will go through launchpad ( I havent seen any info on this, any1 care to link some info plz? ). But regardless what SOE does for Sigil, as long as they stay away from ANY "development" with Vanguard, I employ everyone to stay calm, check the forums and read what people say about Vanguard when it goes into open beta nad NDA is lifted. In no way am I saying you should buy it, just dont dismiss it right away. For now, I chose to trust Brad - he seems to be passionate about his project, but if I spot any hint of farlanism, ill drop the hammer on my VSOH plans faster then i flush my toilet in a bad case of diarhea...

What if you are wrong and SOE effects development?

Lets be frank, you want to use people as a tool to buy this game because you fear not enough people are going to purchase it and thus cause vangaurd to die.

SpiritofGame · May 2006

Originally posted by Carufin

There's a reason Micro$oft kicked VSOH to the curb.
~ Sigil bought back the rights to V:SoH from Microsoft and signed with a new partner, Sony Online Entertainment. Your opinion of being "kicked to the curb" is counter-intuitive. ~
That reason is because VSOH is a dog. Micro$oft knows what a dog MMO looks like, because they had Asheron's Call. One of the historical dogs of all time. I beta tested that dog a long time ago, and even it held my interest longer than the VSOH beta. I couldn't take 24 hours of VSOH, whereas I played Asheron's Call in beta for a good week before ditching it. When you're worse than Asheron's Call, you totally blow.
~ Ah. Thanks for your detailed review of Asheron's Call -- a game which you beta'ed for a week. I, on the other hand, played the game for three years. Not only was the game NOT "a dog" but was one of the Big Three MMORPGs and the servers have been open since retail release in 1999 and Turbine became rich because of it. Interestingly enough, Turbine also bought back the rights to Asheron's Call from Microsoft -- and they were wise to do so. ~
~ You beta'ed V:SoH for a day before rendering summary judgment? Can you even imagine how unimpressive that is? This is like admitting you have no idea what you are talking about. ~
Let's look at the "revolutionary" features of VSOH:
1. Medieval/Mythological premise, with Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, etc.
2. Swords and Sorcery
3. Tanks that absorb damage, Wizards and Rogues that deal damage, Clerics that heal damage
4. Begin by killing snakes, rodents, etc.
Mmmkay. Is there any aspect listed above that hasn't been beaten into moldering, maggot infested pulp already by about ten thousand different online games? Do you suppose that grafting the Everquest II whack-a-mole crafting system into the game as an argument system and adding some modern texturing will be the salvation of a genre that is deader than the deadest horse ever beaten?
~ Apparently surveys and polls showing Medieval Fantasy Swords and Sorcery to be the genre-of-choice BY FAR among MMORPG-players escaped your attention? ~
Brad needs to change his marijuana supplier, his brain is toast from that cheap Mexican brick weed.
~ By the way, statements like that are called Slander and Defamation of Character. Luckily you are too insignificant to be sued for it. ~
So create now, and add me, to the fourth group of people who detest VSOH. Those who are sick and tired of endless re-runs and spinoffs of a gaming genre that is completely and utterly burned out. That will appeal only to those who've never played such a game before, which means pathetic 14 year olds who just got their first craptastic Dell machine and have Mommy's VISA card in hand.
~ Sorry, but your opinion of the MMORPG market and players is wildly distorted and almost pathological. ~
SOE is buying VSOH to try to create the next WoW.
~ Okay, let's add "psychic" to your other dubious abilities. ~
The next lowest common denominatory, brain-dead, pathetic Sword and Sorcery MMORPG.
~ Again, this shows a stunning lack of facts. The truth is quite the opposite. ~
One they hope will suck away all the mindless, brain-dead WoW players who they hope will be bored of that game by now, and are stupid enough to pay for another iteration of the same old crap. They were stupid enough to play WoW in the first place, after all.
~ I get the distinct impression that your cheerful presence in any MMORPG would not be appreciated by anyone. ~

I hope that it is safe to assume that we will not be honored by your presence in Vanguard? K, thanks.

beautyisin · May 2006

Good post Spirit ::::08::

hercules · May 2006

Originally posted by LilT

Originally posted by Amathe

There is one point that gets overlooked in the Sigil/SOE debate. If this was a single player game, it wouldn't make a damn who Sigil co-publishes with. You pay your $50 for a one shot deal and you like the game or you don't. But this is a mmorpg that touts, as one of its selling points, that you can play it for years. So let's say you buy into the PR of SOE's "limited role" and invest 400-600 hours of your time into Vanguard. Then whoops-a-daisy Sigil sells its interest to SOE, who, as they have done before, decide to re-do the essential nature of the game. That really sucks. Will it happen? No one can say, but you can be sure it is a lot more likely to happen now than it was before this deal. So you can't merely look at SOE's role as of today. You have to consider the impact of their role in the future after you sink months of your life into this game.

I just had to qfe this post. It is my reasoning for staying as far from Vanguard as possible.

No conspiracy theories, no crazy emotions, just common sense.

guess you are all referring to SWG.Well SoE made EQ1 and 2 ,planetside and this games never went thru such severe changes.

You got to ask why?Its the history of SWG thats in question.It had been infuluenced by constant whining and changes to please one group or other.

And since everyone has a different vision of SWG it has in fact undergone 3 drastic changes i can think of that affected the style of gameplay or a major impact in the direction of the game.

Intrestingly enough there never been a major outcry like this.Why?Because all that was left pre nge were the "i wanna be a jedi" crowd who were the loudest whiners by a mile and got all their cookies till this happened.

The booted out the roleplayers looong ago.

Sorry but SWG is a joint SoE/LA venture.SoE/LA were very guilty of trying to get maximum profit and not realising their game needed a direction.Fans(if u can call them that) just helped show them where the loaded gun was and where to point it.

Other SoE mmorpg have had no such problem whatsoever.

InspGadgt · May 2006

Originally posted by SpiritofGame

Originally posted by Carufin

Mmmkay. Is there any aspect listed above that hasn't been beaten into moldering, maggot infested pulp already by about ten thousand different online games? Do you suppose that grafting the Everquest II whack-a-mole crafting system into the game as an argument system and adding some modern texturing will be the salvation of a genre that is deader than the deadest horse ever beaten?
~ Apparently surveys and polls showing Medieval Fantasy Swords and Sorcery to be the genre-of-choice BY FAR among MMORPG-players escaped your attention? ~

Personally I've never been polled or surveyed in this reguard or have I ever seen one...not to day that it isn't true though. But I think Sci-Fi probably has the same if not bigger demand for it in an MMORPG that is hardly tapped at all. After all there is a TV channel specifically for Sci-Fi but there isn't one for Fantasy. Yes Sci-Fi channel plays fantasy flicks but it isn't it's primary focus. The problem is Fantasy is easy to do in comparison. Everyone knows roughly what an elf, gnome, or troll should look like along with all the armor and weapons to go along with it. It's all standard stuff. But with Sci-Fi almost nothing is pre-defined as such with the exception that a human looks like a human and in MMORPGs which follow a specific theme like SWG which predefines how things should look. Everyone's vision of fantasy is pretty much the same but everyone's vision of the future can be as varied as the number of stars in space. This makes it a lot more difficult to make a game that has nothing predefined so why even tackle it? Tackle something you can pump out fast to make money off of.

LilT · May 2006

Originally posted by hercules

Originally posted by LilT

Originally posted by Amathe

There is one point that gets overlooked in the Sigil/SOE debate. If this was a single player game, it wouldn't make a damn who Sigil co-publishes with. You pay your $50 for a one shot deal and you like the game or you don't. But this is a mmorpg that touts, as one of its selling points, that you can play it for years. So let's say you buy into the PR of SOE's "limited role" and invest 400-600 hours of your time into Vanguard. Then whoops-a-daisy Sigil sells its interest to SOE, who, as they have done before, decide to re-do the essential nature of the game. That really sucks. Will it happen? No one can say, but you can be sure it is a lot more likely to happen now than it was before this deal. So you can't merely look at SOE's role as of today. You have to consider the impact of their role in the future after you sink months of your life into this game.

I just had to qfe this post. It is my reasoning for staying as far from Vanguard as possible.

No conspiracy theories, no crazy emotions, just common sense.

guess you are all referring to SWG.Well SoE made EQ1 and 2 ,planetside and this games never went thru such severe changes.

You got to ask why?Its the history of SWG thats in question.It had been infuluenced by constant whining and changes to please one group or other.

And since everyone has a different vision of SWG it has in fact undergone 3 drastic changes i can think of that affected the style of gameplay or a major impact in the direction of the game.

Intrestingly enough there never been a major outcry like this.Why?Because all that was left pre nge were the "i wanna be a jedi" crowd who were the loudest whiners by a mile and got all their cookies till this happened.

The booted out the roleplayers looong ago.

Sorry but SWG is a joint SoE/LA venture.SoE/LA were very guilty of trying to get maximum profit and not realising their game needed a direction.Fans(if u can call them that) just helped show them where the loaded gun was and where to point it.

Other SoE mmorpg have had no such problem whatsoever.

Im not limiting soe's questionable developing to just "severe changes". It is a common opinion that soe is incompetent when it comes to running mmo's. I am relatively new to the mmo world, but soe is the only company i have heard of that uses bait and switch tactics, has a track record of releasing incomplete expantions and games, and is the company with arguably the worst customer service reputation. i've heard over and over how eq turned to crap after soe got it and how planetside is a joke.

Apache_ · May 2006

Just my 2 cents, but I seriously doubt that SOE is going to simply handle all the hardware, services, publishing, and marketing and let Sigil do whatever they want, whenever they want. As Investors, SOE will probably have set expectations that Sigil will be obligated by contract to meet.

To me, its alot like a Record label signing on a Group, or Singer. The Record label handles all the distribution of CD's, pruduction, supply recording studios, ect....But the Singer/Group doesnt simply supply the talent and make a record whenever they feel like it. The Singer/Group is under a cantract to "Perform" in a designated manner stipulated by thier contract.

I remember reading a long time ago how George Michael had a hard time getting out of a contract with Sony. They wanted him to be more like a music making factory, and wanted him to release music on a specific schedule.

So IMHO, SOE has some kind of contract with Sigil. SOE will provide all the necessary tools and services to get Vanguard off the ground, and keep it running. But Sigil will be more than likely under contract to "Perform" in some manner. If Sigil doesnt Perform, they could be in violation of the contract...wich puts SOE in a very powerfull position. And knowing SOE, Sigil could be under alot of pressure (if not already) very soon.

Burlap · May 2006

I must admit.. I have read alot of posts in this thread....

I was really looking forward to Vanguard... seemed like the perfect game for me. Doesnt take a genius to figure out there are alot of problems at Sigil.... With the postponement of the CGW Beta entries, obviosly something has changed int he time frame. All this is happening about the same time SOE came aboard.

This is a very bad sign.

Dont let me down Brad...

Burlap

Apache_ · May 2006

Originally posted by Burlap

I must admit.. I have read alot of posts in this thread....

I was really looking forward to Vanguard... seemed like the perfect game for me. Doesnt take a genius to figure out there are alot of problems at Sigil.... With the postponement of the CGW Beta entries, obviosly something has changed int he time frame. All this is happening about the same time SOE came aboard.
This is a very bad sign.
Dont let me down Brad...

Burlap

SOE is bad news. Everything they get involved in, they end up owning. Everything they own ends up crap.

There is a reason SOE has the reputation it has now.

My estimate: Give it one year from Vanguards official launch, and SOE will own it.

beautyisin · May 2006

Originally posted by Apache_

Originally posted by Burlap
I must admit.. I have read alot of posts in this thread....I was really looking forward to Vanguard... seemed like the perfect game for me. Doesnt take a genius to figure out there are alot of problems at Sigil.... With the postponement of the CGW Beta entries, obviosly something has changed int he time frame. All this is happening about the same time SOE came aboard.
This is a very bad sign.
Dont let me down Brad...BurlapSOE is bad news. Everything they get involved in, they end up owning. Everything they own ends up crap.
There is a reason SOE has the reputation it has now.
My estimate: Give it one year from Vanguards official launch, and SOE will own it.

There is sticky for this crap.

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