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Crowfall Review | MMORPG.com

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    Kyleran said:
    Aeander said:
    Nyctelios said:






    Even if there weren't stability issues, the glaring balancing issue of allowing 500 players into a single guild and then letting those 500 player guilds team up with 4 other 500 player guilds make it unplayable for literally any other guild on the server that doesn't have a 2,500 player alliance.

    I'm surprised they didn't take steps to prevent such organizations from forming as I felt this type of issue was one of the biggest problems Shadowbane suffered from.

    I was there at SBs launch which I actually enjoyed until the days when the server's mega guild began rolling everyone else.

    Heck due to other design flaws most of our guilds city was destroyed in an early morning (3am ET) raid the day before the tree timer was set to come down. (Tree could only protect a limited number of structures, everything else was fair game.)

    I recall logging in the server before work the morning before the scheduled raid to help beef up the defenses some only to find most everything including my structure in ruins. 

    One of more disheartening game experiences I've ever had in a MMORPG and I think I only logged in once more to say goodbye to my guild mates for the last time and returned to DAOC for a few more years.
    Ooh, I was part of Ebonlore, hopefully you don't remember that guild name from SB... lol.
    I was in there for like a week, but they were literally slavers.  Harvest, farm, give it to your Queen...
    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:

    Even if there weren't stability issues, the glaring balancing issue of allowing 500 players into a single guild and then letting those 500 player guilds team up with 4 other 500 player guilds make it unplayable for literally any other guild on the server that doesn't have a 2,500 player alliance.

    I'm surprised they didn't take steps to prevent such organizations from forming as I felt this type of issue was one of the biggest problems Shadowbane suffered from.

    They Tried with their Hunger Dome Idea, forcing things to small scale, just so that mega guilds would not have the advantage.

    But some people be like "OMG they promised Faction vs Faction" with their puissant 9 person guild, that has at best has 3 people show up, and are too stupid or brain dead to realize that Mega Guilds will own the fuck out of them in that game mode, just like they have in every single other game ever made that had that game mode, since that game mode existed.
    Again, you demonstrate a lack of actual understanding of the game.

    The HungerDome is a 5 person Moba/Battle Royale.  It was actually begged for by the zerg guilds who were bored in Beta because the servers were empty.  It's a totally different game style.  It's a 12 team, 5 man Battle Royale

    As for the Faction servers, it's not just that they were promised.  It's that they MADE SENSE.  New players had nowhere to go except Dregs SO THEY QUIT.  You wouldn't know because you never got past the tutorial.  Faction servers were always planned as a step between the tutorial area and the zerg Guild vs Guild one.  As a matter of fact there was supposed to be 3 way factions and Godwar ones with 5-12 factions.   Those were supposed to allow players to gain skill and form connections before being tossed to the blob of the Dregs.

    So now Artcraft has over corrected and announced. 5 new Faction servers coming Monday.  Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 but 5...   So the thousand people still playing can split up 5 ways.

    Plus, as of now they have not announced a new Dregs.  They mentioned one was coming, and it would be larger.  But I have not seen a date (possibly I missed it).

    What they SHOULD have done is launched 1-2 Dregs Servers and a Faction Server.  Then if needed, spin up more.

    If they do not have the Dregs up at the same time then the zerg guild will just blob into the faction servers... what fun...

    Not that there are many non-zerg players left...

    They also need to severely limit faction hopping as well as server hopping.   Pick a server and get your character locked in.  There should be huge penalties for switching servers(with the same character) or Factions.  Folks are just going to Bandwagon the shit out of this setup.   They have been warned on the test forums, we will see what they change (I haven't looked in a few days)

    They are so desperate that they are putting the game on FURTHER sale by allowing people to invite friends for a 25% off code (on top of the prior price reduction to $40).  So yes that means the game is now down to $30.

    If you want to talk about the game like you know the situation you should get in and play it.  I will be back there on Monday to actually check out the Faction Servers.

    YashaXKyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    edited July 2021
    tzervo said:
    Scot said:
    Finally I would say that we often call for innovation on here, we often bemoan the state of one template themeparks. CF was a shot of something different I am hoping they can turn it round, AO did.
    My impression has been that every time people ask for innovation what they actually want is "familiar with a twist". Because every time innovation happens they reject it as "we do not understand the game", "we do not like world resets", "we need an avatar, not a spaceship/ship", "game has no combat" or some such reason.
    I remember players questioning the fact everyone got a "spaceship" right from the beginning in SWTOR. Then they realised it was primarily a home which you optionally could do space battles from and they still questioned the need for it. Anything outside the standard template is questioned, anything.
    [Deleted User]Kyleran
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    YashaX said:
    tzervo said:

    I think the gripes of the critics of Crowfall actually have to do mostly with the gameplay (combat, UI, polish).

    Not at all. If you read the criticism of people that have written about it, like @Mtibbs1989 or even the OP's review, you will see that the main issues revolve around the core gameplay loop: e.g., the crafting/gathering system is bs, the "world" is way too fragmented, the way campaigns are set up doesn't make sense, etc. 

    The combat and UI are good enough, these are not things that are keeping players away from the game. I would even go as far as to say that I like the combat, classes, and customization options more in CF than in NW, but despite that I feel no desire to log in and play.

    I mostly agree, except for the classes. One of the main things that attracts me in NW is the lack of classes.
    I have to say the race and class set up in CF was very good, lot of thought there and the avatars though not up to my graphical standards still look distinctive and interesting.

    Both games need work, CF needs more but I still have no intentions of playing NW until a few months after launch which is my standard start point for any game these days, particularly MMOs.

    People don't tend to leave for one reason, though that happens, usually it is an amalgamation of factors that push them to a decision. Bit like relationships really. ;)
    Kyleran
  • joshisanonymousjoshisanonymous Member UncommonPosts: 31
    I briefly tried the late beta, so I don't know what's happened since release, but I feel the negativity towards collecting materials is a bit overstated. Making material crafting laborious for one person provides incentive to not work as one person but to instead find guilds and socialize so as to bring your resources together. It sounds painful to do solo, but MMOs were not originally meant to be played solo. They're always designed that way now because it's easier to sell the idea that you can hop in, ignore literally everyone, and still progress greatly in short amounts of time, but we've lost all the social aspects that originally made MMOs so special.

    That said, if they don't target people who want those social experiences and make it clear that you need other people to work with if you're going to succeed, then a lot of people used to the modern solo MMO experience and gonna get disappointed and quit long before they figure out that they were not supposed to be solo, making it that much harder to find others to work with in the first place.

    I'm not sure the game would succeed even then, though. I found a lot not to like about it in terms of combat, UI, story, and even really basic things like not being given even the slightest description of what each class is about at character creation. I guess we'll see how all this pans out eventually.
    BruceYee

    www.joshmcneill.com

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    The problem with the crafting and harvesting is that your progression is locked behind grinding discipline runes which are pure RNG.  And the progression is step based.  So you equip a green rune and you are 1 step better.  You stay that way until you grind enough green runes(and cash) to combine into a blue.  Now you are another step better.   Now you stay that way until you fine enough greens to make 3 blues (and the cash) which you combine to make a purple.  Now you are a step better.  Then you have to farm enough greens, to make enough blues, to make enough purple (and cash) to combine to an orange.   Now you are another step.

    The crafting and harvesting belts have a similar loop.

    I liked it despite its flaws but the cash component is a killer.  
    YashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:

    Even if there weren't stability issues, the glaring balancing issue of allowing 500 players into a single guild and then letting those 500 player guilds team up with 4 other 500 player guilds make it unplayable for literally any other guild on the server that doesn't have a 2,500 player alliance.

    I'm surprised they didn't take steps to prevent such organizations from forming as I felt this type of issue was one of the biggest problems Shadowbane suffered from.

    They Tried with their Hunger Dome Idea, forcing things to small scale, just so that mega guilds would not have the advantage.

    But some people be like "OMG they promised Faction vs Faction" with their puissant 9 person guild, that has at best has 3 people show up, and are too stupid or brain dead to realize that Mega Guilds will own the fuck out of them in that game mode, just like they have in every single other game ever made that had that game mode, since that game mode existed.
    Again, you demonstrate a lack of actual understanding of the game.

    The HungerDome is a 5 person Moba/Battle Royale.  It was actually begged for by the zerg guilds who were bored in Beta because the servers were empty.  It's a totally different game style.  It's a 12 team, 5 man Battle Royale

    As for the Faction servers, it's not just that they were promised.  It's that they MADE SENSE.  New players had nowhere to go except Dregs SO THEY QUIT.  You wouldn't know because you never got past the tutorial.  Faction servers were always planned as a step between the tutorial area and the zerg Guild vs Guild one.  As a matter of fact there was supposed to be 3 way factions and Godwar ones with 5-12 factions.   Those were supposed to allow players to gain skill and form connections before being tossed to the blob of the Dregs.

    So now Artcraft has over corrected and announced. 5 new Faction servers coming Monday.  Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 but 5...   So the thousand people still playing can split up 5 ways.

    Plus, as of now they have not announced a new Dregs.  They mentioned one was coming, and it would be larger.  But I have not seen a date (possibly I missed it).

    What they SHOULD have done is launched 1-2 Dregs Servers and a Faction Server.  Then if needed, spin up more.

    If they do not have the Dregs up at the same time then the zerg guild will just blob into the faction servers... what fun...

    Not that there are many non-zerg players left...

    They also need to severely limit faction hopping as well as server hopping.   Pick a server and get your character locked in.  There should be huge penalties for switching servers(with the same character) or Factions.  Folks are just going to Bandwagon the shit out of this setup.   They have been warned on the test forums, we will see what they change (I haven't looked in a few days)

    They are so desperate that they are putting the game on FURTHER sale by allowing people to invite friends for a 25% off code (on top of the prior price reduction to $40).  So yes that means the game is now down to $30.

    If you want to talk about the game like you know the situation you should get in and play it.  I will be back there on Monday to actually check out the Faction Servers.

    Again.. anyone in their puissant guild that fields something like 3 people for at best a few hours, thinking that faction vs faction won't end in them getting ram rodded by the mega guilds, is delusional.
     
    And know quite a bit about these kinds of games, which is exactly why when I was in Beta, I joined a mega guild.. I know how the system works, and I didn't expect Crowfall to be any different, and it seems I am not wrong about that.. unlike some people.

    So, as far as playing goes.. look at that.. I know how to game the game, without getting past the Tutorial.. and my new card should be arriving on Wednesday.. we shall see what happens.
    Slapshot1188BruceYee
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    Not sure you understand how Factions work.   Your blob guild could actually be on my Faction.  We could claim a fort that you defend for us.  How Glorious that will be.
    YashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    If a game is designed for it, small guilds or groups can still be relevant, especially in faction vs faction warfare.

    There were 8 mans in DAOC who could hold keeps for hours against a zerg, or even decimate one in the open field if their timers were up.

    8 mans often utilized the zerg, making specific offensive moves while the bulk of the player base was zerging against each other.

    Size matters of course, but at least in the earlier days of DAOC / Mordred a guild like Torcan composed of fewer than 50 players could dominate opponents like Legend boasting over several hundred members as they really were just that good.


    Slapshot1188mcrippinsYashaXBrainy

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    Zegaloth said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:

    Even if there weren't stability issues, the glaring balancing issue of allowing 500 players into a single guild and then letting those 500 player guilds team up with 4 other 500 player guilds make it unplayable for literally any other guild on the server that doesn't have a 2,500 player alliance.

    I'm surprised they didn't take steps to prevent such organizations from forming as I felt this type of issue was one of the biggest problems Shadowbane suffered from.

    They Tried with their Hunger Dome Idea, forcing things to small scale, just so that mega guilds would not have the advantage.

    But some people be like "OMG they promised Faction vs Faction" with their puissant 9 person guild, that has at best has 3 people show up, and are too stupid or brain dead to realize that Mega Guilds will own the fuck out of them in that game mode, just like they have in every single other game ever made that had that game mode, since that game mode existed.
    Again, you demonstrate a lack of actual understanding of the game.

    The HungerDome is a 5 person Moba/Battle Royale.  It was actually begged for by the zerg guilds who were bored in Beta because the servers were empty.  It's a totally different game style.  It's a 12 team, 5 man Battle Royale

    As for the Faction servers, it's not just that they were promised.  It's that they MADE SENSE.  New players had nowhere to go except Dregs SO THEY QUIT.  You wouldn't know because you never got past the tutorial.  Faction servers were always planned as a step between the tutorial area and the zerg Guild vs Guild one.  As a matter of fact there was supposed to be 3 way factions and Godwar ones with 5-12 factions.   Those were supposed to allow players to gain skill and form connections before being tossed to the blob of the Dregs.

    So now Artcraft has over corrected and announced. 5 new Faction servers coming Monday.  Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 but 5...   So the thousand people still playing can split up 5 ways.

    Plus, as of now they have not announced a new Dregs.  They mentioned one was coming, and it would be larger.  But I have not seen a date (possibly I missed it).

    What they SHOULD have done is launched 1-2 Dregs Servers and a Faction Server.  Then if needed, spin up more.

    If they do not have the Dregs up at the same time then the zerg guild will just blob into the faction servers... what fun...

    Not that there are many non-zerg players left...

    They also need to severely limit faction hopping as well as server hopping.   Pick a server and get your character locked in.  There should be huge penalties for switching servers(with the same character) or Factions.  Folks are just going to Bandwagon the shit out of this setup.   They have been warned on the test forums, we will see what they change (I haven't looked in a few days)

    They are so desperate that they are putting the game on FURTHER sale by allowing people to invite friends for a 25% off code (on top of the prior price reduction to $40).  So yes that means the game is now down to $30.

    If you want to talk about the game like you know the situation you should get in and play it.  I will be back there on Monday to actually check out the Faction Servers.

    Again.. anyone in their puissant guild that fields something like 3 people for at best a few hours, thinking that faction vs faction won't end in them getting ram rodded by the mega guilds, is delusional.
     
    And know quite a bit about these kinds of games, which is exactly why when I was in Beta, I joined a mega guild.. I know how the system works, and I didn't expect Crowfall to be any different, and it seems I am not wrong about that.. unlike some people.

    So, as far as playing goes.. look at that.. I know how to game the game, without getting past the Tutorial.. and my new card should be arriving on Wednesday.. we shall see what happens.

    That is working with the assumption that all massive guilds will all be on a single faction, when that isn't really going to be the case. As long as your faction has a large guild, a smaller one of 3-10 people could be the difference between victory or defeat.

    I also think that FvF would be better for the economy of the game since vendors will have access to a larger pool of people.

    Obviously mileage may vary, but I don't think FvF would detract from Dregs, and if it does, then maybe Dregs isn't as great as larger guilds want it to be. I personally think there is plenty of room for both.
    Yeah, I dunno about that.

    A lot of players begged for a free for all server (like the Dregs) in DAOC so they stood up two which launched to great fanfare yet very quickly the first was merged into the second and within a few years the second closed for good.

    Been a few attempts to resurrect them on free shards but they always die off very quickly while Phoenix and Uthgard RVR servers have been successful for many years.

    I just am not convinced there's a huge demand for G v G gameplay, especially in a full loot sort of design where the consequences for failure matter much more.


    [Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    This thread is the perfect example of how one person always tries to control the conversation/discussion... Repeating the same negative opinions over and over based on half truths that don't mean anything at all but at the same time may prevent someone from even looking at the game...

    Other people present other perspectives then that one person quickly changes the topic or ignores what those individuals write completely to retain control of HIS narrative. The goal of the constant negative attacks on the game IS "you shouldn't play this this game because of this _____"... It isn't a real discussion/conversation if one person is constantly trying to disprove what others say/write while spouting half truths...

    The beautiful thing about gaming is there are absolutes with no gray areas straight across the board that can be determined by factual public data but certain people have made everyone believe that there are "many reasons/possibilities" through active mental conditioning/manipulation like in this thread + others because it benefits their own agendas.

    That ONE person here hasn't even experienced the game how it was meant to be played which is being fully involved with a serious guild and everything that goes along with that. He is presenting himself as some authority while throwing out his personal opinion based only on casual play at best and hoping people with limited knowledge of the game believe what he says... That is 100% agenda driven BS and why people here continue to fall for it I dunno... but it definitely seems to be working...

    I can correct so many things he brings up but that's false but don't because he'll double down like in every other thread completely ignoring reality/never admitting guilt then everyone else will pile on cause they also have limited knowledge of the game as well and will just use the situation to point boost each other without any care or concern that they are wrong.
    YashaXSlapshot1188KyleranBrainy
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    tzervo said:
    YashaX said:
    tzervo said:

    I think the gripes of the critics of Crowfall actually have to do mostly with the gameplay (combat, UI, polish).

    Not at all. If you read the criticism of people that have written about it, like @Mtibbs1989 or even the OP's review, you will see that the main issues revolve around the core gameplay loop: e.g., the crafting/gathering system is bs, the "world" is way too fragmented, the way campaigns are set up doesn't make sense, etc. 

    The combat and UI are good enough, these are not things that are keeping players away from the game. I would even go as far as to say that I like the combat, classes, and customization options more in CF than in NW, but despite that I feel no desire to log in and play.
    Yes but I have also seen lots of complaints in the older mega-threads where we were discussing the game here around its beta about the combat (especially the "it does not have weight/impact" comment), the UI (especially the "can't customize the UI", comments against the chat functionality, comments against the map, about how the buffs are communicated) and polish (this coincides with your comment about gathering - I have seen comments about how annoying and buggy the gathering reticle is, comments about the performance, animations).

    Also note that I don't necessarily agree with these criticisms (couldn't care less about movable/sizeable UI for example), just that I have seen them.

    I am still trying to decide what to make of the comments about "world is too fragmented, does not make sense" because they could either be the most useful as to how the game does or the most useless. The fragmented, resetting worlds are the central concept of the game, people complaining about them sounds as silly as people complaining about a PVP game having PVP. At the same time, it is a novel concept and it may be a hint that many people tried it for the first time, saw it not working for them and left (for example, I have seen comments about how players do not feel connected with the world and invested in it). I just don't buy this completely yet.

    It is true that the combat is somewhat lacking and the UI is pretty mediocre but that does not comprise the bulk of the criticism of the game from people who have managed to get past the tutorial (apparently the game is so bad it is hard to even push yourself to finish the tutorial).

    My criticism of about the fragmented and confusing game set up is not directed at the limited time campaigns/worlds (I think this is a good/interesting idea).


    [Deleted User]
    ....
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Not sure you understand how Factions work.   Your blob guild could actually be on my Faction.  We could claim a fort that you defend for us.  How Glorious that will be.
    Yah, believe this or not, I know exactly how that works.

    Of course blob guilds will be on all the various factions, That's how the gamemode works, otherwise it just ends with one faction getting the ol' ram rod. The Mega Guilds will clash with each other, fight, and have our fun. Often times, with little satellite guilds (like yours) doing some paltry BS stuff, or maybe just providing some minor body count, nothing really noticeable in the overall scheme of the match, but no doubt you will bang your drum for every little thing you do.

    As for capturing points, claiming defensible locations and the like, again, if you ever played a faction vs faction game, you know how it works, depending on how valuable that fort is will denote if a Mega guild will let it fall, just so they can re-take it later and claim it for themselves, or defend it because they already have a better claim.

    Often enough, tiny no-name guilds that can't field any sizable force, or defend their own claims will only be allowed to hold minor points on the field, otherwise those points will be allowed to fall, just so a larger guild with the forces to defend it, will be able to claim it, and get the rewards for doing so.

    Come on.. anyone who has played Throne War games knows how that shit goes down, I mean, come on, Artcraft did a whole skit on this very thing, that is why they have timed seasons and the like, just so that Mega guilds will not be able to continually fully dominate the playing field. 

    Anyway, for anyone that missed this first several hundred times, It's PvP, it's Throne War Style PvP at that, its not some carebear PvE scrub crap where slackers get carried, Mega guild are not doing charity work, they are there to not only win the match, but also be the best guild in the faction, and flex their e-peen about it.

    I mean really.. hell, I haven't made it out the Tutorial, but it's like you don't even grasp the nature of game you are playing.

    Slapshot1188
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Zegaloth said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:

    Even if there weren't stability issues, the glaring balancing issue of allowing 500 players into a single guild and then letting those 500 player guilds team up with 4 other 500 player guilds make it unplayable for literally any other guild on the server that doesn't have a 2,500 player alliance.

    I'm surprised they didn't take steps to prevent such organizations from forming as I felt this type of issue was one of the biggest problems Shadowbane suffered from.

    They Tried with their Hunger Dome Idea, forcing things to small scale, just so that mega guilds would not have the advantage.

    But some people be like "OMG they promised Faction vs Faction" with their puissant 9 person guild, that has at best has 3 people show up, and are too stupid or brain dead to realize that Mega Guilds will own the fuck out of them in that game mode, just like they have in every single other game ever made that had that game mode, since that game mode existed.
    Again, you demonstrate a lack of actual understanding of the game.

    The HungerDome is a 5 person Moba/Battle Royale.  It was actually begged for by the zerg guilds who were bored in Beta because the servers were empty.  It's a totally different game style.  It's a 12 team, 5 man Battle Royale

    As for the Faction servers, it's not just that they were promised.  It's that they MADE SENSE.  New players had nowhere to go except Dregs SO THEY QUIT.  You wouldn't know because you never got past the tutorial.  Faction servers were always planned as a step between the tutorial area and the zerg Guild vs Guild one.  As a matter of fact there was supposed to be 3 way factions and Godwar ones with 5-12 factions.   Those were supposed to allow players to gain skill and form connections before being tossed to the blob of the Dregs.

    So now Artcraft has over corrected and announced. 5 new Faction servers coming Monday.  Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 but 5...   So the thousand people still playing can split up 5 ways.

    Plus, as of now they have not announced a new Dregs.  They mentioned one was coming, and it would be larger.  But I have not seen a date (possibly I missed it).

    What they SHOULD have done is launched 1-2 Dregs Servers and a Faction Server.  Then if needed, spin up more.

    If they do not have the Dregs up at the same time then the zerg guild will just blob into the faction servers... what fun...

    Not that there are many non-zerg players left...

    They also need to severely limit faction hopping as well as server hopping.   Pick a server and get your character locked in.  There should be huge penalties for switching servers(with the same character) or Factions.  Folks are just going to Bandwagon the shit out of this setup.   They have been warned on the test forums, we will see what they change (I haven't looked in a few days)

    They are so desperate that they are putting the game on FURTHER sale by allowing people to invite friends for a 25% off code (on top of the prior price reduction to $40).  So yes that means the game is now down to $30.

    If you want to talk about the game like you know the situation you should get in and play it.  I will be back there on Monday to actually check out the Faction Servers.

    Again.. anyone in their puissant guild that fields something like 3 people for at best a few hours, thinking that faction vs faction won't end in them getting ram rodded by the mega guilds, is delusional.
     
    And know quite a bit about these kinds of games, which is exactly why when I was in Beta, I joined a mega guild.. I know how the system works, and I didn't expect Crowfall to be any different, and it seems I am not wrong about that.. unlike some people.

    So, as far as playing goes.. look at that.. I know how to game the game, without getting past the Tutorial.. and my new card should be arriving on Wednesday.. we shall see what happens.

    That is working with the assumption that all massive guilds will all be on a single faction, when that isn't really going to be the case. As long as your faction has a large guild, a smaller one of 3-10 people could be the difference between victory or defeat.

    I also think that FvF would be better for the economy of the game since vendors will have access to a larger pool of people.

    Obviously mileage may vary, but I don't think FvF would detract from Dregs, and if it does, then maybe Dregs isn't as great as larger guilds want it to be. I personally think there is plenty of room for both.
    Not really.

    FvF, can only survive if Mega Guilds join all the various factions, otherwise, it just becomes a Ram Rod for the whole faction that didn't have mega guilds, and that will kill the game mode, which is no fun. This is why population balance in FvF games is an issue.

    But basically, what you have happening is, Mega guilds on each faction, will for all intents, control that faction and what the population will do.

    Case in point, lets say, Mega Guild makes the call to let a point fall, that point will now fall to a Mega guild from another Faction, it's as simple as that.

    If some tiny guild of 3 people think they are going to hold that point against a Mega guild that can field `100, they are just fooling themselves, even if they cry and get a few other smaller guilds to join, even a few 10 person guilds, 40, even 50 pug rag tag players are not going to hold a candle to a guild that field twice their total number, has planned for this, and is all on discord with proper leadership, yer gonna get ram rodded.


    BruceYee
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    YashaX said:

    It is true that the combat is somewhat lacking and the UI is pretty mediocre but that does not comprise the bulk of the criticism of the game from people who have managed to get past the tutorial (apparently the game is so bad it is hard to even push yourself to finish the tutorial).

    My criticism of about the fragmented and confusing game set up is not directed at the limited time campaigns/worlds (I think this is a good/interesting idea).



    Comments like this are exactly what I was talking about in my previous post as half truths... It is a personal opinion based on false information that is written in a way that is meant to paint the game in a negative light.

    The tutorial HAD to be the way it is because of the rewards that are given for doing the tutorial but NO ONE here has mentioned that. Why has no one brought that up? because they haven't played enough of the game to know that the tutorial gives players rewards that go beyond what they could earn ALONE at the start by playing the game in other ways for a similar amount of time... If they made the tutorial 20 minutes with the rewards they give you for completing it people would just delete characters all day long and re-do the tutorial with a high dps class as a way to earn gold...
    Not one of these people here mention that because they are trying to deceptively convince others that the tutorial is a NEGATIVE and not a POSITIVE. The tutorial was REQUESTED by the community which is something people here conveniently fail to mention and it teaches you info for the game AND gives you meaningful rewards for the time spent.
    UngoodKyleran
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    edited July 2021
    BruceYee said:

    Not one of these people here mention that because they are trying to deceptively convince others that the tutorial is a NEGATIVE and not a POSITIVE. The tutorial was REQUESTED by the community which is something people here conveniently fail to mention and it teaches you info for the game AND gives you meaningful rewards for the time spent.
    Correction.  "A" tutorial was requested by the community to help new players.  THIS tutorial is not what was asked for.  You can run this whole tutorial and come out on the other side not really understanding the real game.  It's certainly not the worst part of the game, but it feels tacked on... because it was.  The last few sections were literally tossed up the last few days before launch.

    I think the God's Reach should be 100% for new players.   No guilds.  Just make it a big training zone with scheduled keep sieges.   Let the 3 factions fight it out.  let there be "win" cards like there are in the major campaigns but obviously much less valuable.   Let the new players experience the whole game.  At the end of the Tutorial they should get one more quest:  To join a Faction campaign under the same Faction banner and WIN.  Completing the quest should give them something decent.  Like a new Vessel.  It might be the first time they even see one or know what it does/is.

    Alternately they could do it like DAoC used to.  At various points in the Tutorial you go to an instance ( DAoC Battleground) where you fight for the center capture point.   Starts with a small outpost/camp.  Then a Respawn POI.  Next time it's a fort.  Then a big keep.  They tacked some of this on at the end of the tutorial but it's super rushed and really doesn't teach much.  It's pretty much just another go here click X or kill Y quest.

    Let the new players FIGHT each other.  Ease them into it.  A little at a time.

    Then Crafting and even Harvesting could use a lot of tutorial love.  The crafting is SUPER deep, but nobody going through the tutorial can really understand that.  It's a lost opportunity.

    YashaXlaxieKyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    BruceYee said:
    YashaX said:

    It is true that the combat is somewhat lacking and the UI is pretty mediocre but that does not comprise the bulk of the criticism of the game from people who have managed to get past the tutorial (apparently the game is so bad it is hard to even push yourself to finish the tutorial).

    My criticism of about the fragmented and confusing game set up is not directed at the limited time campaigns/worlds (I think this is a good/interesting idea).




    The tutorial HAD to be the way it is because of the rewards that are given for doing the tutorial but NO ONE here has mentioned that. Why has no one brought that up? because they haven't played enough of the game to know that the tutorial gives players rewards that go beyond what they could earn ALONE at the start by playing the game in other ways for a similar amount of time... If they made the tutorial 20 minutes with the rewards they give you for completing it people would just delete characters all day long and re-do the tutorial with a high dps class as a way to earn gold...
    Not one of these people here mention that because they are trying to deceptively convince others that the tutorial is a NEGATIVE and not a POSITIVE. The tutorial was REQUESTED by the community which is something people here conveniently fail to mention and it teaches you info for the game AND gives you meaningful rewards for the time spent.

    Not sure what you are talking about, I didn't even criticise the tutorial - I said that some people (such as the main white knighter of this game here) couldn't even finish it.

    You can just skip it and jump straight to 25 anyway if you have a sub or lots of gold, if you are willing to miss out on those AMAZING rewards for doing it. 
    ....
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,122
    The game has very limited general appeal as is. I agree the tutorial doesn't at all help, it gives people way too many opportunities to drop off. Combined with the general lack of polish, you are asking players to spend hours doing mediocre PvE content, to then play a guild-based PvP game.

    And contrary to popular belief, this game cannot survive monetising the existing playerbase. Unless it introduces a cash shop that makes Star Citizen look like a charity.

    I am honestly not sure what can be done at this point.
    KyleranTalmien
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    Correction.  "A" tutorial was requested by the community to help new players.  THIS tutorial is not what was asked for.  You can run this whole tutorial and come out on the other side not really understanding the real game.  It's certainly not the worst part of the game, but it feels tacked on... because it was.  The last few sections were literally tossed up the last few days before launch.

    I think the God's Reach should be 100% for new players.   No guilds.  Just make it a big training zone with scheduled keep sieges.   Let the 3 factions fight it out.  let there be "win" cards like there are in the major campaigns but obviously much less valuable.   Let the new players experience the whole game.  At the end of the Tutorial they should get one more quest:  To join a Faction campaign under the same Faction banner and WIN.  Completing the quest should give them something decent.  Like a new Vessel.  It might be the first time they even see one or know what it does/is.

    Alternately they could do it like DAoC used to.  At various points in the Tutorial you go to an instance ( DAoC Battleground) where you fight for the center capture point.   Starts with a small outpost/camp.  Then a Respawn POI.  Next time it's a fort.  Then a big keep.  They tacked some of this on at the end of the tutorial but it's super rushed and really doesn't teach much.  It's pretty much just another go here click X or kill Y quest.

    Let the new players FIGHT each other.  Ease them into it.  A little at a time.

    Then Crafting and even Harvesting could use a lot of tutorial love.  The crafting is SUPER deep, but nobody going through the tutorial can really understand that.  It's a lost opportunity.


    Your entire post is so convoluted and intentionally worded in way that's just meant to rally your mob who also know ZERO about the game and to make it seem like you know wtf you're talking about while point boosting each other...

    You can stop pretending like you care about the well being of the game cause all you've been doing since before launch is try to tear it down with FALSE information. People who are easily manipulated may see what you wrote as legit suggestions but in reality NONE of what you wrote makes any sense for the type of game CF is. Everything you wrote implies they got many things wrong and that somehow what you suggest would be better which is insulting to say the least not only to ACE but also to the people enjoying the game. The person(You) who defends scam crowdfund tech demos and supports subscriptions for early access Unity asset flip MMO's pretending he knows what's good for a game he obviously hates is _____.

    Even IF they did all that you suggest you'd probably be back here writing something like "Not the game they promised or I backed" or "Not a sandbox game, sandbox games aren't supposed to tell you how to do everything"... Pure deception/manipulation. They didn't promise a hand holding can't think for yourself type of game right? They promised a hardcore pvp with required social interaction game and delivered exactly that... If you can't figure stuff out with all the tools(chat, guilds, youtube, forum, sites) available that isn't their problem that's on YOU.

    There has been a format of attack being used here which is to make it seem like not adding "FvF" was in some way a fatal mistake but IN REALITY faction vs faction already exists in the game everywhere... You know those keeps and control points are FvF? How about those gankers who gank players? FvF. This is how deceptive certain members here are... All the biggest guilds are in the same faction anyway so why TF does it matter cause they'll destroy everyone anyway. If anything the best PVP experiences you may have are small scale anyway cause huge zerg fights are a laggy blob of spell spam.

    Where's the conversation about how CF is a good value for $40? Isn't Project Gorgon also $40 for a Unity asset flip + a sub in early access? That's right... that's NOT the conversation people here want to have because that convo proves that in 2021 the amount of entertainment you can get from even the base game Crowfall purchase can be hundreds/thousands of hours depending on how you choose to play..

    Preventing people by any means necessary from even considering Crowfall even if you yourself DO NOT play or are clueless about the game is the MO here it seems..
    Kyleran
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    So what you’re saying is you can’t point to where I stated something inaccurate but you just don’t like me.  OK I can live with that.  And so stand by what I wrote.

    And I play Crowfall far more than you do.  I can guarantee that.  And I’ll be right back in Monday
    KyleranYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    edited August 2021
    YashaX said:

    Not sure what you are talking about, I didn't even criticise the tutorial - I said that some people (such as the main white knighter of this game here) couldn't even finish it.

    You can just skip it and jump straight to 25 anyway if you have a sub or lots of gold, if you are willing to miss out on those AMAZING rewards for doing it. 

    Proof that you do not play/know what you're talking about...
    Boost to 25 on your first character without any gold or mount to ride around on bruva... You can't buy those major disciplines cause you DON'T have thousands of gold from the tutorial.. Then go grinding without the gear the tutorial gives that's just mediocre and see how long it takes to get to even lvl 28 from lvl 25 which is the level the tutorial leaves you at... Then go grind to 30 and tell us how long that takes... No need... It takes HOURS longer than what it takes to do the 2-3 hour tutorial... You would know all that if you actually played the game...
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    I have got to admit, I liked the Beta Tutorial Better.

    It was fast, easy, got the point across, and put you into the game to play.

    Given, it didn't tell you much, which, is not always a bad thing.

    Sometimes waiting till someone opens the crafting station of their own volition, is really the best time to tell them about crafting, not having everything in the game shoved down their throat in a "starting Tutorial" and they will forget it like 20 min later.

    Hated games like Riders of Icarus, and ArcheAge for doing crap like that, massive info dump when I walk in.
    Kyleran[Deleted User]
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    YashaX said:
    BruceYee said:
    YashaX said:

    It is true that the combat is somewhat lacking and the UI is pretty mediocre but that does not comprise the bulk of the criticism of the game from people who have managed to get past the tutorial (apparently the game is so bad it is hard to even push yourself to finish the tutorial).

    My criticism of about the fragmented and confusing game set up is not directed at the limited time campaigns/worlds (I think this is a good/interesting idea).




    The tutorial HAD to be the way it is because of the rewards that are given for doing the tutorial but NO ONE here has mentioned that. Why has no one brought that up? because they haven't played enough of the game to know that the tutorial gives players rewards that go beyond what they could earn ALONE at the start by playing the game in other ways for a similar amount of time... If they made the tutorial 20 minutes with the rewards they give you for completing it people would just delete characters all day long and re-do the tutorial with a high dps class as a way to earn gold...
    Not one of these people here mention that because they are trying to deceptively convince others that the tutorial is a NEGATIVE and not a POSITIVE. The tutorial was REQUESTED by the community which is something people here conveniently fail to mention and it teaches you info for the game AND gives you meaningful rewards for the time spent.

    Not sure what you are talking about, I didn't even criticise the tutorial - I said that some people (such as the main white knighter of this game here) couldn't even finish it.

    You can just skip it and jump straight to 25 anyway if you have a sub or lots of gold, if you are willing to miss out on those AMAZING rewards for doing it. 
    If you are talking about me.. Lets get things clear, it was graphic card problems on my end, the existence of the Tutorial or how it was set up, or what was involved, had nothing to do with not being able to complete it.
    YashaX
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    edited August 2021
    BruceYee said:
    YashaX said:

    Not sure what you are talking about, I didn't even criticise the tutorial - I said that some people (such as the main white knighter of this game here) couldn't even finish it.

    You can just skip it and jump straight to 25 anyway if you have a sub or lots of gold, if you are willing to miss out on those AMAZING rewards for doing it. 

    Proof that you do not play/know what you're talking about...
    Boost to 25 on your first character without any gold or mount to ride around on bruva... You can't buy those major disciplines cause you DON'T have thousands of gold from the tutorial.. Then go grinding without the gear the tutorial gives that's just mediocre and see how long it takes to get to even lvl 28 from lvl 25 which is the level the tutorial leaves you at... Then go grind to 30 and tell us how long that takes... No need... It takes HOURS longer than what it takes to do the 2-3 hour tutorial... You would know all that if you actually played the game...
    Umm.. that is EXACTLY what I did at launch.  I made a character.  Went to the pedestal and went straight to 25.   I walked to the trainer guy right outside the temple and got my upgraded weapon by talking to him.  Went right out and started grinding.

    Took me at MOST a few hours to hit 30.
    YashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TalmienTalmien Member UncommonPosts: 190
    Human nature at its finest in this thread.

    People who like crowfall are bothered by people who dislike it.
    People who dislike crowfall are bothered by those who like it.

    No mystery there.

    But the reality is, the majority of games who tried it ended up not liking it, hence all the bad reviews. It appears it takes a very special gamer to find enjoyment in it, which is probably why its always labeled as "niche".

    What sparks all the debate is concerns, or glee, over whether that niche is to small for its budget. I don't see a issue with those who want the game to change to bring in more players, and that starts by pointing out what the majority dislikes, or hates about the game.
    Brainy[Deleted User]Ungood
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