Oh I have no problem dealing with anything, I am not the one complaining about the rewards. I am also not the one to complain about a game having PVP, PVE or raids, I can have fun with any of them
Part of my fun is figuring out how to play optimally a game that I find interesting. Rewards are a part of that fun, albeit not the only one. If a game does not reward harder gameplay such as PVP or raids I will give it a spin but it just won't be my main focus. I adapt without fussing, see my example on E:D: PVP has no point in it so I played it as a PVE game and it was fine. I even advocated using its PVE faction warfare concept elsewhere.
I still find rewarding challenging and risky gameplay to be fair, and those that complain about it as entitled.
I absolutely despise games where the only reward is to get access to harder content.
For me it's all about character development. Levels that provide increased attributes, better/higher level skills, gear, more skill lines, etc.
Definitely playing. Plenty for me to do, as I plan on doing several crafting professions and participating in all things PVE and PVP.
EDIT: only real 'problem' I have at this point is finding a guild that fits before launch.
If your computer can play ESO it should be able to handle NW. My experience has been that NW is less demanding on my system than ESO.
Mmhhh... I can play ESO in 4K with everything maxed out, but for NW to max out every setting is have to fall back to 1440p or I'll get some serious slow downs in cities. In 1440p though I'm always over 60fps.
There is probably some variation depending on individual systems. I haven't done any "real" testing, I just notice that my fans start working harder as soon as ESO starts up and that Cyrodil is almost always dropping frames and lagging. Meanwhile, my computer was pretty much silent in NW with no lag or frame drops whatsoever (I didn't do any of the big pvp events though).
So you will Basically follow the path of least resistance.
So much for the lies and bullshit from all the people cry about wanting Challenge.
LOL, all just lies and bullshit... right to the core.
Only game community I ever mat that was not a bunch of lying sacks of dog food, about wanting Challenge, was the DDO community. They said Elite was too easy, so the Devs put in Reaper, which gives the same Favor/Loot rewards as Elite, with just a little more exp, and the players embraced it. They wanted more challenge, they got more challenge, and the same loot rewards, and were happy about it, because they were honest about what they wanted.
Everyone else is like "Oh I just want Challenge" piss off, you don't want challenge, you just want better rewards, stop with the Bullshit already.
Lol. Nonsense.
If I bust my ass off completing hard content I want to have something to show for it. And I want to be able to show that I did better than those that I outperformed, and for those that outperform me to also be able to show it. That's fair and has nothing to do with all the silliness that you just unloaded. Much more honest than your "give me the rewards without the effort" drivel.
I don't care about challenge for the sake of challenge. I want quantifiable performance. This can be as simple as a title for clearing challenging content, or increased gold or better gear.
If it is gold/gear then my performance metric is not the challenging content, but how to get that gold/gear faster. If I can get it with easier content faster I will do that. If I can get it faster with the harder content I will go for that. There is an interesting and meaningful decision there, where I need to evaluate my skills vs the content and its rewards. If I overevaluate or underevaluate my skills my performance will get a hit and that's fair. If I can find a cheese to clear harder content and get the rewards faster I will do that - and feel very smug and clever about it too. If it is just an awful grind and I get bored I will go play something else without throwing a tantrum. Simple.
If the rewards for the hard content are same as those for the easy content then most (me included) will do the easy content and we end up in a game where noone stands out. That's fine for some players but not that interesting for someone looking to make meaningful choices or compete. It's a matter of who is the target audience and both are fine.
Funny you complain about lies while being the hypocrite here, crying about the rewards while at the same time accusing others for caring about them.
Typical, Just in for the Loot.
Any path to get there, which is my point is exactly, you are simply reinforcing my stand, not disagreeing with it.
No one really wants Challenge, that is just a bullshit lie they toss out to sound altruistic, when in reality they are all greedy little shits that just want something that allows them to waggle their e-peen and feel better than what they consider the unwashed masses that can't do said content. They could not give two flying fucks how fun, challenging, or even what it actually is at all.. as long as it provides something that they can flaunt to set them apart from what they perceive as their lessers.
In the end, players like that are not looking for a game that is fun to play, or one that has diversified content, or one any of that, really, that shit if for the pleebs, they are just looking for a means to flex their ego, and for players like that, there is no need to bother with variable content or even making things fun, just put in whatever the Devs decided it going to be 'End Game', and they will do it, mindlessly for the rewards, and that sense that they are somehow special.
So trying to say that a game needs to be fun.. is a horseshit line from anyone that believes that there needs to be proper rewards for effort, or whatever catch line they opt to vomit out.
if they really believed in Fun first, they would not care about the Rewards, if they really just wanted challenge, they would not care about the rewards.
But as you so clearly pointed out, Fun, Challenge, or any other qualifier like that means jack diddly shit, and it all boils down to "gimme me some way to flex my e-peen"
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Any path to get there, which is my point is exactly, you are simply reinforcing my stand, not disagreeing with it.
No one really wants Challenge, that is just a bullshit lie they toss out to sound altruistic, when in reality they are all greedy little shits that just want something that allows them to waggle their e-peen and feel better than what they consider the unwashed masses that can't do said content. They could not give two flying fucks how fun, challenging, or even what it actually is at all.. as long as it provides something that they can flaunt to set them apart from what they perceive as their lessers.
In the end, players like that are not looking for a game that is fun to play, or one that has diversified content, or one any of that, really, that shit if for the pleebs, they are just looking for a means to flex their ego, and for players like that, there is no need to bother with variable content or even making things fun, just put in whatever the Devs decided it going to be 'End Game', and they will do it, mindlessly for the rewards, and that sense that they are somehow special.
So trying to say that a game needs to be fun.. is a horseshit line from anyone that believes that there needs to be proper rewards for effort, or whatever catch line they opt to vomit out.
if they really believed in Fun first, they would not care about the Rewards, if they really just wanted challenge, they would not care about the rewards.
But as you so clearly pointed out, Fun, Challenge, or any other qualifier like that means jack diddly shit, and it all boils down to "gimme me some way to flex my e-peen"
I think there some grains of truth in what both of you are saying. We need to be careful here not paint everyone the same with a broad stroke.
I have met and played with people in DDO and other games where the content, the journey was more important than the rewards.
However I have met some zergers and there is or was lots that run shit not so much for the challenge or content but for the rare phat loot.
There's flower sniffer where the loot is fun to get but not really important or all that to them.
People run things for various reason and I think there is merit in what you are both saying.
In DDO for example I am an officer in the Stormreach Thieves Guild and had mates that ran stuff for the challenge the harder the better and didn't care if the got the loot at the end and lots didn't even roll on it...
.... and that was fun but there was some of us that really wanted that end game/rare loot so we ran raids and whatnot every time we were off timer and ran pugs enough so that some of us got to be known that we got into pugs rather easily since eventually you got to know who was a good one to have in a pug or not on your server... go Khyber!
I had stopped playing before reaper mode but I am not surprised at all there peeps that run it just for the extra challenge but I am sure there some that would like it to give more rewards too.
I used to play daily back when ascension chamber, ToD, Hound etc were the raids to run along with Epic runs again some for the challenge but many wanted them token to make Epic items.
It's not all so easy as being black or white.
However yeah there lots of people that claim they want challenge but just want better rewards and want to lock people out of those rewards unless they run content they have decided is more "worthy".
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Any path to get there, which is my point is exactly, you are simply reinforcing my stand, not disagreeing with it.
No one really wants Challenge, that is just a bullshit lie they toss out to sound altruistic, when in reality they are all greedy little shits that just want something that allows them to waggle their e-peen and feel better than what they consider the unwashed masses that can't do said content. They could not give two flying fucks how fun, challenging, or even what it actually is at all.. as long as it provides something that they can flaunt to set them apart from what they perceive as their lessers.
In the end, players like that are not looking for a game that is fun to play, or one that has diversified content, or one any of that, really, that shit if for the pleebs, they are just looking for a means to flex their ego, and for players like that, there is no need to bother with variable content or even making things fun, just put in whatever the Devs decided it going to be 'End Game', and they will do it, mindlessly for the rewards, and that sense that they are somehow special.
So trying to say that a game needs to be fun.. is a horseshit line from anyone that believes that there needs to be proper rewards for effort, or whatever catch line they opt to vomit out.
if they really believed in Fun first, they would not care about the Rewards, if they really just wanted challenge, they would not care about the rewards.
But as you so clearly pointed out, Fun, Challenge, or any other qualifier like that means jack diddly shit, and it all boils down to "gimme me some way to flex my e-peen"
So you did not read (or did not understand) what I said, and you failed to explain why you obsess about the rewards while accusing others of caring about them and claiming they are not important to you.
No I neither agree nor reinforced what you said. And the answer why is already in my previous posts.
And competition is not always about waving one's e-peen or rubbing it in someone's face. I care about having an objective way to measure how I do in a game (other players) because I find it a fun, interesting and challenging puzzle to solve. It is you who cares about e-peen, not me.
LOL.. I never claimed they weren't important.. that is some stupid misguide strawman of your own devising.. which means you have not been reading or understanding what I have been saying.
I said IF the game is supposed to be about fun, that the rewards shouldn't be important. and thus all activities should give the same rewards.
You on the other hand, you have flat out admitted that the rewards are solely what drives you to do content.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Any path to get there, which is my point is exactly, you are simply reinforcing my stand, not disagreeing with it.
No one really wants Challenge, that is just a bullshit lie they toss out to sound altruistic, when in reality they are all greedy little shits that just want something that allows them to waggle their e-peen and feel better than what they consider the unwashed masses that can't do said content. They could not give two flying fucks how fun, challenging, or even what it actually is at all.. as long as it provides something that they can flaunt to set them apart from what they perceive as their lessers.
In the end, players like that are not looking for a game that is fun to play, or one that has diversified content, or one any of that, really, that shit if for the pleebs, they are just looking for a means to flex their ego, and for players like that, there is no need to bother with variable content or even making things fun, just put in whatever the Devs decided it going to be 'End Game', and they will do it, mindlessly for the rewards, and that sense that they are somehow special.
So trying to say that a game needs to be fun.. is a horseshit line from anyone that believes that there needs to be proper rewards for effort, or whatever catch line they opt to vomit out.
if they really believed in Fun first, they would not care about the Rewards, if they really just wanted challenge, they would not care about the rewards.
But as you so clearly pointed out, Fun, Challenge, or any other qualifier like that means jack diddly shit, and it all boils down to "gimme me some way to flex my e-peen"
I think there some grains of truth in what both of you are saying. We need to be careful here not paint everyone the same with a broad stroke.
I have met and played with people in DDO and other games where the content, the journey was more important than the rewards.
However I have met some zergers and there is or was lots that run shit not so much for the challenge or content but for the rare phat loot.
There's flower sniffer where the loot is fun to get but not really important or all that to them.
People run things for various reason and I think there is merit in what you are both saying.
In DDO for example I am an officer in the Stormreach Thieves Guild and had mates that ran stuff for the challenge the harder the better and didn't care if the got the loot at the end and lots didn't even roll on it...
.... and that was fun but there was some of us that really wanted that end game/rare loot so we ran raids and whatnot every time we were off timer and ran pugs enough so that some of us got to be known that we got into pugs rather easily since eventually you got to know who was a good one to have in a pug or not on your server... go Khyber!
I had stopped playing before reaper mode but I am not surprised at all there peeps that run it just for the extra challenge but I am sure there some that would like it to give more rewards too.
I used to play daily back when ascension chamber, ToD, Hound etc were the raids to run along with Epic runs again some for the challenge but many wanted them token to make Epic items.
It's not all so easy as being black or white.
However yeah there lots of people that claim they want challenge but just want better rewards and want to lock people out of those rewards unless they run content they have decided is more "worthy".
Reaper offers the same Chest Loot and Favor as Elite, regardless if you did R1 or R10.
Reaper does provide some extra EXP, making it very attractive difficulty for TR train runs.
My point is, you hear people cry (Lie) that they just want challenge, that a game should be about doing what you find fun (more bullshit), when in reality what they want is loot to flex their e-peen and these same people will follow the path of least resistance to most reward.
My belief is that, if the game is suppose to be about having fun, then the rewards should not matter, and all paths can lead to the same end.
Which as a DDO player, you know this system well, where you get the same SoS, regardless if you ran VoN on Normal, Hard, Elite, or Reaper.
But I am sick to death of people lying out their ass about what they say they want, when in reality that is not what they want at all.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I said IF the game is supposed to be about fun, that the rewards shouldn't be important. and thus all activities should give the same rewards.
I feel like "risk" vs. "reward" has a role in here somewhere. It can be fun to risk a great deal to get a reward on the other end.
I don't know how you avoid rewards in a game - for some, the story is the reward, for other, progression, for others, loot. I don't know if anyone would play a game for absolutely no reward.
If the design of the game is to allow players to chose what content to play, it should all in it's own way lead to the same end rewards.
Otherwise you really don't have any choice on what you want to play, you can't just chose to play the content you enjoy, you will have to play the content with the rewards you want to posses, regardless if you think that content is anal vomit or tofu heaven.
The Devs will set what the mice need to do to get their cheese.
Risk/Reward is a bullshit line anyway.
GW2, WvW was a negative sum game regardless if your team won or not, if you were active, you always lost money playing it, either in upgrades, buying siege, food, oils, banners, meals, lots spent on that game mode with really.. and I mean.. really shitty rewards, the absolute most challenging content, with the absolute worst rewards.
When I first joined, my guild would do Dungeon runs to fund the WvW effort, later they moved to Fractals. But the situation was the same, they played a game mode that cost them money and resources, because they enjoyed it, they were out there for the thrill of the fights, for the love of the game.. and we did that for years on end!
Truth be told, if you are not willing to do the game mode or content at zero or loss, for love of the game, don't lie to me that you just enjoy the game mode, you're a rat chasing cheese and just there for the rewards, spare me any other bullshit.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Reaper offers the same Chest Loot and Favor as Elite, regardless if you did R1 or R10.
Reaper does provide some extra EXP, making it very attractive difficulty for TR train runs.
My point is, you hear people cry (Lie) that they just want challenge, that a game should be about doing what you find fun (more bullshit), when in reality what they want is loot to flex their e-peen and these same people will follow the path of least resistance to most reward.
My belief is that, if the game is suppose to be about having fun, then the rewards should not matter, and all paths can lead to the same end.
Which as a DDO player, you know this system well, where you get the same SoS, regardless if you ran VoN on Normal, Hard, Elite, or Reaper.
But I am sick to death of people lying out their ass about what they say they want, when in reality that is not what they want at all.
I wasn't talking about Elite but EPIC runs which didn't give the same rewards, they gave mats to make your gear epic like the epic sos and raids which if I remember right doing higher difficulty gave high % chance at the rare loot dropping, same for regular quest run on norm hard or elite.
I never have run reaper as I stopped playing before that was put in. Like I said however you both have good points not arguing against what you are saying here.
@tzervo ; You say players don't decide except in lots of cases they do or at least have an influence on what the devs decide.....DDO is a case in point.
You have to admit there are plenty of players that whine both ways in practically any mmo you play regardless of they are leaning in your argument or the other side but at the end of the day it's a game so...
I am fine with earning my loot however I am also fine if there's more than one way to earn something andI'm not going to get bent out of shape that I earned my sword of epicness via pvp 1000 pvp matched and someone else earned the same sword of epicness via a hardcore dungeon.
Someone else journey is their own and mine is my own it can still be competitive without the need to force everyone down the same track/path.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
1000% all in! Can't wait for the launch. Been play testing for a long time and the game has come so far over the years! Can't wait to see what the release version brings us! I have been gaming since EQ and New World does indeed bring back those feels, just like running out of Nektulos Forrest running to the unknown and finding the common lands after fighting your way past the skeletons and bear cubs! PVP and PVE players can find plenty to do, the game is pure freedom to travel and find your content. The thing that is so special in New World, the game doesn't hold your hand, doesn't show you the path to take, doesn't guide you from point 1 to Z and nothing in-between. Explore, adventure, discover, and make your own content if you must, but get out there and do something and you will find yourself lost in the beauty and spender of the world they have built for us to play in! So yea, I'm going to play and play for a long long time!
1) I wasn't talking about Elite but EPIC runs which didn't give the same rewards, they gave mats to make your gear epic like the epic sos and raids which if I remember right doing higher difficulty gave high % chance at the rare loot dropping, same for regular quest run on norm hard or elite.
I never have run reaper as I stopped playing before that was put in. Like I said however you both have good points not arguing against what you are saying here.
2) @tzervo ; You say players don't decide except in lots of cases they do or at least have an influence on what the devs decide.....DDO is a case in point.
3) You have to admit there are plenty of players that whine both ways in practically any mmo you play regardless of they are leaning in your argument or the other side but at the end of the day it's a game so...
4) I am fine with earning my loot however I am also fine if there's more than one way to earn something andI'm not going to get bent out of shape that I earned my sword of epicness via pvp 1000 pvp matched and someone else earned the same sword of epicness via a hardcore dungeon.
Someone else journey is their own and mine is my own it can still be competitive without the need to force everyone down the same track/path.
Numbers added by me:
1) So higher challenge gives better rewards.
2) They can influence the devs, if the devs think it is in their benefit, if they think their target audience would be happier - it is still the devs deciding, obviously. That does not change the motivation of those players, which was my criticism in the first place.
3) No disagreement there and I find whining of any form (so both sides, and I am on neither) distasteful.
4) Also agree. Your example of hardcore dungeons or PVP is no different than my example of raids or PVP to Knight. Even if more challenging or risky gameplay is not rewarded better, I am fine with factoring that gameplay out without fuss and adapting, see my example with E:D and PVP. I never argued in favour of forcing everyone down the same path. I said that sometimes this is constrained by game design or dev bandwidth (ie someone spending time to make those hardcore dungeons or PVP systems). In this case, the devs are simply choosing their target audience.
1) No, DDo breaks content into Heroic and Epic levels, Epic is Level 20+, DDO also has a system where you can Upgrade a Heroic Item to an Epic Item. So a level 10 Sword of Shadows, can be upgraded to an level 20, Epic Sword of Shadows.
But, regardless if you do Heroics or Epics on Normal, Hard, Elite, or Reaper, you will still be able to make one and only kind of Epic Sword of Shadows.
2) To think that Devs live in a bubble is nonsense. They read feedback, they have to, that is part of offering service, and remaining competitive. Sometimes they listen to the wrong group.
3) Of course you would wine.. you already admitted you would be unhappy if you didn't get your way, so either you would whine and complain or Quit.
4) But you openly admit you will get your knickers in a twist, if they can earn that same sword of epicness by doing something like map completion. So.. No.. you are not OK with it.. and stop pretending that you would be.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
GW2, WvW was a negative sum game regardless if your team won or not, if you were active, you always lost money playing it, either in upgrades, buying siege, food, oils, banners, meals, lots spent on that game mode with really.. and I mean.. really shitty rewards, the absolute most challenging content, with the absolute worst rewards.
When I first joined, my guild would do Dungeon runs to fund the WvW effort, later they moved to Fractals. But the situation was the same, they played a game mode that cost them money and resources, because they enjoyed it, they were out there for the thrill of the fights, for the love of the game.. and we did that for years on end!
Truth be told, if you are not willing to do the game mode or content at zero or loss, for love of the game, don't lie to me that you just enjoy the game mode, you're a rat chasing cheese and just there for the rewards, spare me any other bullshit.
No it was not a negative sum game. Your objective (reward) there is server points and server victory. How fun would that be if there was no tally and people were fighting just for kicks? Personally I would find it pointless and boring. But again I am not everyone, I understand some were going in just for the big fights.
You obviously know less than jack shit about what WvW was like in early Core GW2.
but.. I played on ET in the early days, in glicko Hell with FC and SF. It was a loss for us , a less then Zero game for us.. every.. single.. fucking.. week...
The real kicker was.. even when SF won every week, because they had around, realistically 8 times as many people as we had.. they were.. that's right.. still stuck with us.. Every Single Fucking Week.
It was a negative sum game.. for everyone involved.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
tzervo said: The player is free to choose whatever content they want to consume, and are rewarded appropriately.
This right here is the most bullshit line ever to exist in MMO's
Hey.. remember what started this.. Tegridy Farms remembers.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Maybe down the road at some point. With the various direction changes, I wasn't sure for a long time if the developers even knew what they were creating. That said, looks like the game has some decent systems, and I've got some interest. However ask me 6 months from now when it has gone thru it's rough launch phase. (Everyone has one, not a knock.) At that point, will have a much better idea if the games foundation will keep people entertained enough and long enough to make it worth the investment of time.
3) If none of them applies, and you can get the sword from 5 hours of easy map completion, most players (including me) will adapt and "farm" the sword doing map completion. People that don't like it are simply not the target audience and are better off playing another game suited to them.
===============
JLP is right, this is getting silly, is off-topic and probably annoying to the rest of the readers, even if it's fun for me.
Iwish every player fell into this category.
But we both know that is not the case.. and this does apply to New World.. after all, they revised the entire premise of the game based on player feedback.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Yep. Me and my friends already decided to go in altogether and play it on launch, and we are looking forward to it.
What gave me away?
That I've seen you paying attention
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
But we both know that is not the case.. and this does apply to New World.. after all, they revised the entire premise of the game based on player feedback.
I agree on the first bit. And I am lucky that I don't mind and can enjoy New world either way.
I am not convinced that the devs shifted the game due to feedback, maybe their projections from their alpha preorders were simply bad - we already know anyway that historically the only PVP mmo that managed AAA levels of returns has been BDO, as opposed to the other "big four" PVE mmos. Or they indeed saw increased griefing in the testing like they said. Or their initial PVP design simply did not work as well as they thought in practice.
In any case, both the PVEers that whined and supposedly encouraged the change, and the PVPers that whined because of the change, are motivated by the same petty selfishness. I could sympathize with those that bought the game before the change, but since from what i hear you can cancel and get a full refund these have no grounds for complaining either. It's not their game, it's the devs'.
I am strongly in favour of letting the devs make a game based on their vision, and then just choose which game to play based on that. I hope and believe NW devs changed the game because they realised they had to change it, not because some forum crybabies pressured them to.
How would they know they needed to change it, if crybabies did not pressure them?
I mean, you basically have 2 groups.
Those that like the game the way it is, and just play it and enjoy it.
Those that want the game to change to suit their wants and desires.
So if a game changes, it is always to cater to the second group, and always at the expense of the first one, and the more extreme the change, you know they had to be influenced by player feedback.
Ideally, this might not be so much the devs as it is the suits, but the point still stands.
This is why MMO developers can make some surprisingly stupid unprofitable mistakes with the development of their game.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
How would they know they needed to change it, if crybabies did not pressure them?
Metrics based on in-game event measurements. Or simply observing their designs not working/being used as intended.
Not saying that forum pressure did nothing, but I assume and definitely hope it was not the only nor the decisive factor.
I often get a chuckle about that, because the Devs at Turbine are prone to talking with their community.
Here is how that plays out:
When The Devs put in a New Design or Change things.. All the Players that wanted that Change: "They have the Metrics they know What they are doing!"
6 Months Later the Game is Tanking and Losing Money.
Devs Change things again, to try and fix things and get back the population they pissed off with the Original Change, all the players that wanted the Original Change: "OMG, the Crybabies got their way, and screwed up the game"
So.. yah.. that "Oh Metrics" is only tossed out by the people that like the change, personally, I think "They have the Metrics" is really nothing but a security blanket that loud mouth community members use to show support for the changes they like.. I have never.. in my life.. to date... heard anyone sincerely say "These changes suck, and I hate them, and I will quit the game over them, but, you know, they must have metrics and this is what is best for the game"
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
How would they know they needed to change it, if crybabies did not pressure them?
I don't know... maybe witnessing their grand vision of an exploration and adventure massively multiplayer role playing game turn into a mindless PvP gankfest ?
Yah.. the fact that they were making an FFA OW FL PVP game and were surprised there was ganking, made me lose all respect I had for the studio. It was like these people knew nothing about games or gamers, if that was a shock to them.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
How would they know they needed to change it, if crybabies did not pressure them?
I don't know... maybe witnessing their grand vision of an exploration and adventure massively multiplayer role playing game turn into a mindless PvP gankfest ?
Yah.. the fact that they were making an FFA OW FL PVP game and were surprised there was ganking, made me lose all respect I had for the studio. It was like these people knew nothing about games or gamers, if that was a shock to them.
Thankfully, I'm almost sure they don't give a shit about your respect. Specially when some famous game studios like Origin/EA were forced to do the same they did in the past... but they had to do it AFTER release to SAVE the game.
in EA's defense, they didn't have 2 decades of previous games to learn from, Where Amazon Studio has opted to not learn from mistakes made in the past.
Oh.. I can't wait to see how this game plays out.. and there is a good chance, I will not be playing it.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Yes, I am looking forward to playing. Me and a friend are actually thinking of taking launch day off from work. This would be the first time I ever took a day off specifically for a launch.
Comments
For me it's all about character development. Levels that provide increased attributes, better/higher level skills, gear, more skill lines, etc.
There is probably some variation depending on individual systems. I haven't done any "real" testing, I just notice that my fans start working harder as soon as ESO starts up and that Cyrodil is almost always dropping frames and lagging. Meanwhile, my computer was pretty much silent in NW with no lag or frame drops whatsoever (I didn't do any of the big pvp events though).
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Any path to get there, which is my point is exactly, you are simply reinforcing my stand, not disagreeing with it.
No one really wants Challenge, that is just a bullshit lie they toss out to sound altruistic, when in reality they are all greedy little shits that just want something that allows them to waggle their e-peen and feel better than what they consider the unwashed masses that can't do said content. They could not give two flying fucks how fun, challenging, or even what it actually is at all.. as long as it provides something that they can flaunt to set them apart from what they perceive as their lessers.
In the end, players like that are not looking for a game that is fun to play, or one that has diversified content, or one any of that, really, that shit if for the pleebs, they are just looking for a means to flex their ego, and for players like that, there is no need to bother with variable content or even making things fun, just put in whatever the Devs decided it going to be 'End Game', and they will do it, mindlessly for the rewards, and that sense that they are somehow special.
So trying to say that a game needs to be fun.. is a horseshit line from anyone that believes that there needs to be proper rewards for effort, or whatever catch line they opt to vomit out.
if they really believed in Fun first, they would not care about the Rewards, if they really just wanted challenge, they would not care about the rewards.
But as you so clearly pointed out, Fun, Challenge, or any other qualifier like that means jack diddly shit, and it all boils down to "gimme me some way to flex my e-peen"
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I said IF the game is supposed to be about fun, that the rewards shouldn't be important. and thus all activities should give the same rewards.
You on the other hand, you have flat out admitted that the rewards are solely what drives you to do content.
Reaper does provide some extra EXP, making it very attractive difficulty for TR train runs.
My point is, you hear people cry (Lie) that they just want challenge, that a game should be about doing what you find fun (more bullshit), when in reality what they want is loot to flex their e-peen and these same people will follow the path of least resistance to most reward.
My belief is that, if the game is suppose to be about having fun, then the rewards should not matter, and all paths can lead to the same end.
Which as a DDO player, you know this system well, where you get the same SoS, regardless if you ran VoN on Normal, Hard, Elite, or Reaper.
But I am sick to death of people lying out their ass about what they say they want, when in reality that is not what they want at all.
Otherwise you really don't have any choice on what you want to play, you can't just chose to play the content you enjoy, you will have to play the content with the rewards you want to posses, regardless if you think that content is anal vomit or tofu heaven.
The Devs will set what the mice need to do to get their cheese.
Risk/Reward is a bullshit line anyway.
GW2, WvW was a negative sum game regardless if your team won or not, if you were active, you always lost money playing it, either in upgrades, buying siege, food, oils, banners, meals, lots spent on that game mode with really.. and I mean.. really shitty rewards, the absolute most challenging content, with the absolute worst rewards.
When I first joined, my guild would do Dungeon runs to fund the WvW effort, later they moved to Fractals. But the situation was the same, they played a game mode that cost them money and resources, because they enjoyed it, they were out there for the thrill of the fights, for the love of the game.. and we did that for years on end!
Truth be told, if you are not willing to do the game mode or content at zero or loss, for love of the game, don't lie to me that you just enjoy the game mode, you're a rat chasing cheese and just there for the rewards, spare me any other bullshit.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
But, regardless if you do Heroics or Epics on Normal, Hard, Elite, or Reaper, you will still be able to make one and only kind of Epic Sword of Shadows.
2) To think that Devs live in a bubble is nonsense. They read feedback, they have to, that is part of offering service, and remaining competitive. Sometimes they listen to the wrong group.
3) Of course you would wine.. you already admitted you would be unhappy if you didn't get your way, so either you would whine and complain or Quit.
4) But you openly admit you will get your knickers in a twist, if they can earn that same sword of epicness by doing something like map completion. So.. No.. you are not OK with it.. and stop pretending that you would be.
but.. I played on ET in the early days, in glicko Hell with FC and SF. It was a loss for us , a less then Zero game for us.. every.. single.. fucking.. week...
The real kicker was.. even when SF won every week, because they had around, realistically 8 times as many people as we had.. they were.. that's right.. still stuck with us.. Every Single Fucking Week.
It was a negative sum game.. for everyone involved.
But we both know that is not the case.. and this does apply to New World.. after all, they revised the entire premise of the game based on player feedback.
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I mean, you basically have 2 groups.
So if a game changes, it is always to cater to the second group, and always at the expense of the first one, and the more extreme the change, you know they had to be influenced by player feedback.
Ideally, this might not be so much the devs as it is the suits, but the point still stands.
This is why MMO developers can make some surprisingly stupid unprofitable mistakes with the development of their game.
Here is how that plays out:
When The Devs put in a New Design or Change things.. All the Players that wanted that Change: "They have the Metrics they know What they are doing!"
6 Months Later the Game is Tanking and Losing Money.
Devs Change things again, to try and fix things and get back the population they pissed off with the Original Change, all the players that wanted the Original Change: "OMG, the Crybabies got their way, and screwed up the game"
So.. yah.. that "Oh Metrics" is only tossed out by the people that like the change, personally, I think "They have the Metrics" is really nothing but a security blanket that loud mouth community members use to show support for the changes they like.. I have never.. in my life.. to date... heard anyone sincerely say "These changes suck, and I hate them, and I will quit the game over them, but, you know, they must have metrics and this is what is best for the game"
Oh.. I can't wait to see how this game plays out.. and there is a good chance, I will not be playing it.