Interview: As EVE Online Players Protest, CCP Responds To Feedback Regarding Proposed New Dawn Minin

System · November 2021

Interview: As EVE Online Players Protest, CCP Responds To Feedback Regarding Proposed New Dawn Mining Changes | MMORPG.com

EVE Online has been a flurry of activity both in game and outside of New Eden this past weekend with players protesting and showing displeasure at proposed changes coming with the latest New Dawn quadrant. We sat down with CCP Games to talk about the feedback and how the team is moving forward from here.

Read the full story here

wettowel · November 2021

If the playerbase drops and less ppl plex there account maybe then CCP is listening to its playerbase if the cant get pay their developers who dont play as often the game as the real playerbase. so let´s see if "a lot", what ever it means players like these changes ore not. I hope ccp still has their eyes open and dont play with the money and micro transactions they need to survive.

kracka2666 · November 2021

The reason the feedback is harsh is, ironically, because the players feel like they haven't been listened to at all over the past 2 years. It started as constructive feedback but with the latest update the player base has been taught that being nice will not yield results. You can track this failure to listen to feedback to the original Rorqual change, the players said it was a bad idea and not the purpose of that ship to make it a mining platform. From the groups I've spoken with, nerfing the Rorq isn't bad. The issue is they also nerfed everything else with waste both mining and compression. Players don't need to see mining waste, if you want to make PVP mining make the rocks take damage from weapons in a way that it would take the same amount of time for a cruiser to kill a rock as an exhumer with the fast mining crystal. Personally I feel there is no value to this mechanic either way. When it comes to player's time the compression is a huge issue but also, with the nerf of the Rorq, you really need to buff the exhumers. The 30% increase to the Hulk is nice until you count waste and the fact it dies to rats. Right now the yield difference between the exhumers is not enough, make the Hulk mine 3/4 as fast as the peak Rorq and you have a ship worth it's value. Finally, no one (with a brain) expected or wanted things to go back to the way they were before scarcity. But the players need a valid reward for time spent. When you say "an end to scarcity" but then increase the time it takes to get the resources you really haven't changed anything. The players have seen that for what it's worth and feel like they have been mislead yet again.

Sweede · November 2021

Well CCP made the mistake of making the Rorqual as powerful as it is, and the CSM told them it would be a terrible idea and they still did it. And of course players will then use it.

For me as a small time capital builder in low sec, the Industry change killed that for me, and now the mining change is likely going to kill the fun for me, so guess time will tell if i stay in the game or just become another pilot in some null corp.

Aneu · November 2021

The issue is not just that the rorqual is being removed, but the fact the changes to all other ships essentially mean EVERYTHING will take longer. You either need to get multiple accounts or mine for longer to make anywhere near similar levels to a Rorqual. This is a profit push by CCP that is only enhanced by their recent email sent about multiple accounts.

Delso · November 2021

It's almost as if answering with disdain to the players that feed you isn't well received by said players.

Respect is not a god given right ?

kokpippel · November 2021

Please understand this "outrage" is pushed by a very specific subgroup of players and doesn't represent the general reception of the proposed changes. The backslash is mostly from nullsec blocs who for years benefited from completely broken asset faucets (introduced by CCP to inflate player activity metrics and thus perceived game worth prior to selling the game to new owners IRL). The nullblocs are lead by people illicitly gaining IRL wealth by milking their mindless servants (who are coaxed to whine here) for RMT. I hope this context helps understand the fake outrage being addressed here.

kokpippel · November 2021

Forgot to add, CSM is widely considered a joke as it is 90% manned by nullblocs. It's only purpose is to operate as a nullbloc lobby group and leaking advance information to said blocs.

meppa · November 2021

Protests are not really about just rorqual being bad. Real reason is another nail in coffin of null security lifestyle. For some odd reason CCP has been listening purely to small minority who dislike people earning and systematically added risk and lowered rewards of all null security activities. This has lead to very expensive capital ships that can be used with high risk to earn very little. In practise this means there is no reason to make money in null security except mining high end moons with subcapital ships.

Logic is totally flawed. No one sane will undock 13B ship to make less then 100m ISK per hour when you can get better results without any risk inside high security space. Most lucrative ISK per hour at the moment is high tier abyssal instances, that can be accessed with less risk inside high security. EVE i supposed to be risk versus reward and while to some degree increasing risk in null security space was needed it has gotten upside down. Most vocal opinion is that crabs shouldn't be able to defend at all and should just roll over and die in shiny ship when hunters decide so and CCP is listening to this.

Conserning this particular patch there is lot of smoke and mirrors with doubling resources in asteroids. Sure you will get more resources, but waste will eat it away unless you swap to very easy to kill ships and mining amounts will drop significantly unless you are willing to risk 300+m that can be killed by single roaming bomber without any chance of defense or even just any belt rat spawn. Reason why orcas and rorquals are popular is their ability to withstand some ganks or hunters. Forcing people to either stay in broken industry or increase risk massively is again listening to the voice of minority who likes to hunt these ships. And supricingly reddit is full of ideas to make their tank even less to give more yield.

It is natural that spine and will to play of any null sec crab is broken and protests will continue. They, and me included, don't want to be content without good reward that can actually earn some and keep them in tools.

Finally it is somewhat funny to see Snorri "whine" about tone of comments. It is CCP themselves who started this tone by stating that players whining on twitch chat is good salt for their popcorn and that it isn't god given right to solo moon mine. It makes me just more annoyed to see how Snorri returns this salt for my popcorn by whining on interview instead of giving a public apology about these communications. CCP promised to look at things after weekend and we are now at thursday in Europe. CCP hasn't given out any communications after weekend concerning these changes to their players.

Burnouttx · November 2021

For those who think this is just a subgroup of outraged players... These changes effect everyone, everywhere in the game. If industrials can't build ships fast then demand and price goes up. That is economics 101 there genius. That means more expensive faction warfare ships, more expensive mission runners, more expensive wormholers, etc. And the people who have those big, bad ass capital ships are very less likely to undock them. That means no more big bad capital brawls that have been giving CCP notoriety in the gaming industry.

Jxom · November 2021

Here's a bottom line viewpoint of what scarcity did. A single account, with 5 years worth of skill training, playing 2 hours a day on average, used to be able to build a dreadnaught class ship in about two weeks. Currently that same activity takes a little over 6 MONTHS. That's on an account with three characters, all with perfect skills that take years to train into. The lifespan of this ship in combat is determined by a 5 minute combat timer. Many ships don't live through that timer the first time they enter combat. Who wants to spend 6 months in drudgery for 5 minutes of pulse-pounding action?

Scot · November 2021

wettowel said:

If the playerbase drops and less ppl plex there account maybe then CCP is listening to its playerbase if the cant get pay their developers who dont play as often the game as the real playerbase. so let´s see if "a lot", what ever it means players like these changes ore not. I hope ccp still has their eyes open and dont play with the money and micro transactions they need to survive.

kracka2666 said:

The reason the feedback is harsh is, ironically, because the players feel like they haven't been listened to at all over the past 2 years. It started as constructive feedback but with the latest update the player base has been taught that being nice will not yield results. You can track this failure to listen to feedback to the original Rorqual change, the players said it was a bad idea and not the purpose of that ship to make it a mining platform. From the groups I've spoken with, nerfing the Rorq isn't bad. The issue is they also nerfed everything else with waste both mining and compression. Players don't need to see mining waste, if you want to make PVP mining make the rocks take damage from weapons in a way that it would take the same amount of time for a cruiser to kill a rock as an exhumer with the fast mining crystal. Personally I feel there is no value to this mechanic either way. When it comes to player's time the compression is a huge issue but also, with the nerf of the Rorq, you really need to buff the exhumers. The 30% increase to the Hulk is nice until you count waste and the fact it dies to rats. Right now the yield difference between the exhumers is not enough, make the Hulk mine 3/4 as fast as the peak Rorq and you have a ship worth it's value. Finally, no one (with a brain) expected or wanted things to go back to the way they were before scarcity. But the players need a valid reward for time spent. When you say "an end to scarcity" but then increase the time it takes to get the resources you really haven't changed anything. The players have seen that for what it's worth and feel like they have been mislead yet again.

Delso said:

It's almost as if answering with disdain to the players that feed you isn't well received by said players.

Respect is not a god given right ?

kokpippel said:

Forgot to add, CSM is widely considered a joke as it is 90% manned by nullblocs. It's only purpose is to operate as a nullbloc lobby group and leaking advance information to said blocs.

meppa said:

Protests are not really about just rorqual being bad. Real reason is another nail in coffin of null security lifestyle. For some odd reason CCP has been listening purely to small minority who dislike people earning and systematically added risk and lowered rewards of all null security activities. This has lead to very expensive capital ships that can be used with high risk to earn very little. In practise this means there is no reason to make money in null security except mining high end moons with subcapital ships.

Logic is totally flawed. No one sane will undock 13B ship to make less then 100m ISK per hour when you can get better results without any risk inside high security space. Most lucrative ISK per hour at the moment is high tier abyssal instances, that can be accessed with less risk inside high security. EVE i supposed to be risk versus reward and while to some degree increasing risk in null security space was needed it has gotten upside down. Most vocal opinion is that crabs shouldn't be able to defend at all and should just roll over and die in shiny ship when hunters decide so and CCP is listening to this.

Conserning this particular patch there is lot of smoke and mirrors with doubling resources in asteroids. Sure you will get more resources, but waste will eat it away unless you swap to very easy to kill ships and mining amounts will drop significantly unless you are willing to risk 300+m that can be killed by single roaming bomber without any chance of defense or even just any belt rat spawn. Reason why orcas and rorquals are popular is their ability to withstand some ganks or hunters. Forcing people to either stay in broken industry or increase risk massively is again listening to the voice of minority who likes to hunt these ships. And supricingly reddit is full of ideas to make their tank even less to give more yield.

It is natural that spine and will to play of any null sec crab is broken and protests will continue. They, and me included, don't want to be content without good reward that can actually earn some and keep them in tools.

Finally it is somewhat funny to see Snorri "whine" about tone of comments. It is CCP themselves who started this tone by stating that players whining on twitch chat is good salt for their popcorn and that it isn't god given right to solo moon mine. It makes me just more annoyed to see how Snorri returns this salt for my popcorn by whining on interview instead of giving a public apology about these communications. CCP promised to look at things after weekend and we are now at thursday in Europe. CCP hasn't given out any communications after weekend concerning these changes to their players.

Jxom said:

Here's a bottom line viewpoint of what scarcity did. A single account, with 5 years worth of skill training, playing 2 hours a day on average, used to be able to build a dreadnaught class ship in about two weeks. Currently that same activity takes a little over 6 MONTHS. That's on an account with three characters, all with perfect skills that take years to train into. The lifespan of this ship in combat is determined by a 5 minute combat timer. Many ships don't live through that timer the first time they enter combat. Who wants to spend 6 months in drudgery for 5 minutes of pulse-pounding action?

Welcome to the forums!

kokpippel · November 2021

Burnouttx said:

These changes effect everyone, everywhere in the game. t

Yes, this literally is the whole point. Yet for some reason it is always the nulltards who whine and whine endlessly and are never happy until they get to print unlimited assets in perfect safety. I'm happy Devs are finally administering a dose of HTFU.

Scot · November 2021

Whats up @Zenislav you don't think we should welcome new posters?

Tankqull · November 2021

Well one of the problems at least i have with that dev-blog is the way they try to frame the changes and sell them as awesome advantages the end of scarcity and the beginning of a new age of prosperity - while trying to hide numbers to deal with, in an exel-file drowned in errors.

One of their big selling points they rub under your nose is the generous doubling of space-rock sizes. But if you actually use their numbers to varify these statements a whole diferent picture is painted.
Lets take ice (yes that stuff known from the Titanic) its a popular harvested good by miners and industrials throughout EvE. With math skills teached during elementary school the overly repeated end of scarcity and doubling of resources becomes nothing but a farce.

So in the age of Posperity the amount of Ice cubes in your EvE icebelt will be doubled so instead of 1 you'll have 2 Icecubes, additionally they implented a loss during the compressing process wich is understandable as ice under pressure starts melting at a loss ratio of 21% on top of that they implemnted the waste mechanic wich will render some of the parts of the original iceberg to be mined useless. The most commenly used Ice-Mininglaser will have 34% chance to render one part of the iceberg useless.
as we learned during school to calculate with percentages the calculation becomes quite obvious:
2 * 0.79 (21% reduction of the compressing process) * 0.66(34% reduction by the mining tool) =

1.043 !!!

So the age of prosperity is innitiated by a meager 4,3% more resources but that insane prosperity increase is not something you will get as a free "wage increasement" no no...
instead to get it you'll have to work 4,3% longer...

or in other words they are not going to improve the player situation but keep everything the same but cover it behind a convoluted amount of new skills, items and hollow words.

CVulpes · November 2021

There wasn't much truth in any of the corporate quotes or the quotes made by their shills. Since CCP's acquisition by Pearl Abyss (not for the game EVE Online but for the server technology on which the game runs), many unpopular changes to the game (and many outright lies to the players) were instituted with the end goal of setting EVE up as a disposable cash cow where independent play is all but removed. The continued existence of the game is being sacrificed for short term profit. Game statistics indicate overall player count and engagement has dropped by a minimum of 35% despite CCP's attempts at recruiting new players. The plain fact is that whatever magic made EVE the near ideal sandbox game is gone. The only avenues remaining for game play lie exclusive with huge corporations (in particular the largest corporation in game which receives almost exclusive tailoring to its wants - including hugely disproportional representation in the player council). CCP might as well have sold itself to Gamigo for all the butchering EVE has endured. None of this will be reported here though as this platform is little more than corporate advertisement showing as much regard to players as the corporations it serves.

Scot · November 2021

Tankqull said:

Well one of the problems at least i have with that dev-blog is the way they try to frame the changes and sell them as awesome advantages the end of scarcity and the beginning of a new age of prosperity - while trying to hide numbers to deal with, in an exel-file drowned in errors.

One of their big selling points they rub under your nose is the generous doubling of space-rock sizes. But if you actually use their numbers to varify these statements a whole diferent picture is painted.
Lets take ice (yes that stuff known from the Titanic) its a popular harvested good by miners and industrials throughout EvE. With math skills teached during elementary school the overly repeated end of scarcity and doubling of resources becomes nothing but a farce.

So in the age of Posperity the amount of Ice cubes in your EvE icebelt will be doubled so instead of 1 you'll have 2 Icecubes, additionally they implented a loss during the compressing process wich is understandable as ice under pressure starts melting at a loss ratio of 21% on top of that they implemnted the waste mechanic wich will render some of the parts of the original iceberg to be mined useless. The most commenly used Ice-Mininglaser will have 34% chance to render one part of the iceberg useless.
as we learned during school to calculate with percentages the calculation becomes quite obvious:
2 * 0.79 (21% reduction of the compressing process) * 0.66(34% reduction by the mining tool) =

1.043 !!!

So the age of prosperity is innitiated by a meager 4,3% more resources but that insane prosperity increase is not something you will get as a free "wage increasement" no no...
instead to get it you'll have to work 4,3% longer...

or in other words they are not going to improve the player situation but keep everything the same but cover it behind a convoluted amount of new skills, items and hollow words.

CVulpes said:

There wasn't much truth in any of the corporate quotes or the quotes made by their shills. Since CCP's acquisition by Pearl Abyss (not for the game EVE Online but for the server technology on which the game runs), many unpopular changes to the game (and many outright lies to the players) were instituted with the end goal of setting EVE up as a disposable cash cow where independent play is all but removed. The continued existence of the game is being sacrificed for short term profit. Game statistics indicate overall player count and engagement has dropped by a minimum of 35% despite CCP's attempts at recruiting new players. The plain fact is that whatever magic made EVE the near ideal sandbox game is gone. The only avenues remaining for game play lie exclusive with huge corporations (in particular the largest corporation in game which receives almost exclusive tailoring to its wants - including hugely disproportional representation in the player council). CCP might as well have sold itself to Gamigo for all the butchering EVE has endured. None of this will be reported here though as this platform is little more than corporate advertisement showing as much regard to players as the corporations it serves.

Welcome to the forums!

This item has generated more new posters than nearly anything else the site's done this year, seems to me there's posting gold in them thar hills!

Kyleran · November 2021

Except that, the writing styles seem quite similar for several of them.

Scot · November 2021

Kyleran said:

Except that, the writing styles seem quite similar for several of them.

You cynic, that's a Star Citizen fans fighting talk!

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Interview: As EVE Online Players Protest, CCP Responds To Feedback Regarding Proposed New Dawn Minin

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Interview: As EVE Online Players Protest, CCP Responds To Feedback Regarding Proposed New Dawn Minin

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV