Both games announced upcoming expansions fairly recently.
The last expansion for EQ claimed to have added seven expansion zones, eight raids, new quests and missions, and a new feature for familiars.
The last expansion for EQII claimed to have added new dungeons (some for raids), four new ascension classes (whatever that is), a mercenary equipment system, and other stuff.
That seems a lot of work for games on their last legs.
EQ2 expansions haven't been "expansions" since the Kunark expansion was released. Everything post Kunark has been complete shit in terms of feeling like they're expansions. You pay a fee for something that's the size of a game patch now from Daybreak. Its fuckin horrible what Daybreak has turned into. Its a shame too cause I've been a die hard EQ franchise fan since EQ1 launched.
Hopefully Pantheon will be decent... well, I take that back, I know Pantheon will be better than anything Daybreak is putting out. Daybreaks all about $$$$$ now and little to no passion.
Elephant in the room: How many companies do you think bid or attempted to buy the remanence of SOE?
Think about all the chinese gaming companies who are desperate to get western gamers into their publishing pools. These companies have money. How did some unknown investment company end up the winner of the SOE catalogue?
I think most companies knew mmorpgs are on their deathbed and buying a catalogue of games including several on their last leg, and a buggy mess of a pvp sandbox probably yielded little to no offers. the SOE group of games seem to me to be more money pits than investment. Im betting other than H1Z1 all their games are just barely break even, and H1Z1 probably yields some profits but not much considering what they have to spend on development.
What im getting at here is that Daybreak isnt some trailblazer investment company gone gaming. Its an investment company that probably bid low and won because few bothered to bid.
So they cut all but the vital workers, killed anything that wasn't making even a slight profit, and put into their games as little as they can to eek by a profit.
I wouldn't expect anything more than keeping the games alive until the profits equal zero.
Reading up on the parent investment firm of columbus nova, they have about 200-300m investments TOTAL across all their investments. this is a small firm that seems to scoop up investments of opportunity.
For them to kill their potential money maker EQ:NEXT is all you need to know about this company. They want the quick easy money off the H1Z1 and will allow other projects to run until unprofitable then they will kill it without question. They are not about growing the brands, other than maybe H1Z1 which they failed spectacularly to grow.
Best thing they could do for the IP is sell it off to an indy company with some funding who is passionate. They can keep H1Z1 and milk that for what its worth. Do the IP justice, allow the sale of all EQ IP including the unfinished next game. The only passionate people are the leftover developers working directly on the game, there is no passion from the parent company.
I have my own hunch and it is not about gaming.I don't really want to get into the whole shebam but imo DBG is there as a front,sort of like money laundering. Everything is sketchy from the owner claiming to not be a part of the Ogliarch's realm but he most certainly is. There is always obvious signs,the same as i knew likely as most did that Trump is big time a crooked President that should have never been voted in.Just look back at the takeover,claims of things wil be the same,we plan on doing this and that but laid off half the employees lol.It was even funnier when they made a statement something to the effect of they were all about the community but of course laid off the community employees ,again lol.
Point being,it SHOULD shut down but it won't,they want that office there for OTHER reasons.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Oh, how unprecedented! People on a forum saying a MMORPG is dying. I've never read/heard that anywhere before. Certainly not in pretty much every MMORPG's forums I've ever read. Nope. Not at all.
Folks, I'm sure your "concern" about EQ2's status is duly noted, but it's doing fine. EQ has been going since 1999. EQ2 has been going since 2004. Both are still receiving updates, expansions, and support. Both still have active player-bases. Whether the population is small or large or whatever is a moot point. The population is large and active enough to keep it going; that's all that matters.
I've picked EQ2 up again recently. Fallen Gate, the progression server, is quite active. All the usual active spots are as busy as I remember them. I've mostly been playing on my Antonia Bayle characters and that server, too, is active and doing fine. My guild has been very active with stuff happening all the time. General chat is active with people chatting about whatever they chat about there.
Is EQ2 "in a downward spiral"? Sure. In the same way any 10+ year old MMORPG is in a "downward spiral". Will it someday go offline? Sure. In the same way all MMORPGs will someday go offline. Kind of "no shit, Sherlock" to point that out, isn't it? I don't think any eye-opening "Truth Bombs" are landing on anyone's heads here.
Anyways...
For those who enjoy EQ2, or are interested in playing, don't let the would-be ambulance chasers dissuade you. It's a massive game, with still tons to do and a community large and active enough that you could surely find a home in a guild, whose members will likely be more than happy to help you out. You won't be running out of content any time soon.
Both games announced upcoming expansions fairly recently.
The last expansion for EQ claimed to have added seven expansion zones, eight raids, new quests and missions, and a new feature for familiars.
The last expansion for EQII claimed to have added new dungeons (some for raids), four new ascension classes (whatever that is), a mercenary equipment system, and other stuff.
That seems a lot of work for games on their last legs.
EQ2 expansions haven't been "expansions" since the Kunark expansion was released. Everything post Kunark has been complete shit in terms of feeling like they're expansions. You pay a fee for something that's the size of a game patch now from Daybreak. Its fuckin horrible what Daybreak has turned into. Its a shame too cause I've been a die hard EQ franchise fan since EQ1 launched.
Hopefully Pantheon will be decent... well, I take that back, I know Pantheon will be better than anything Daybreak is putting out. Daybreaks all about $$$$$ now and little to no passion.
This, although I might go 1 expansion after Kunark.. think it was called TSO. After that these aren't expansions, rather just adding some cookie cutter zones/dungeons with little value and no innovation. And to be clear, this was way before Daybreak. Something happened after TSO and EQ2 started to go downhill fast. The only people sticking around to play this game are those that just can't break away from a MMORPG, it's like they just keep taking the punishment until they are ground into a nub.
That time though around Kunark & TSO this was the best MMORPG to play hands down. It made WoW look like a child's toy even though WoW had many more subscribers.. but damn did they mess it up.
What's with all the Johhny Depp spam? Can't find any other way to try to piss people off?
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
Hmm.. 15 years old? I'm going to check this out again. I loved it for a few years when I was younger. I honestly can't wait to find out if they kept the EQ vibe.
So, I gave the game a try as a free player. It isn't nearly as busy as it used to be...entire zones just completely empty. Its true what others have said on forums/reddit, the game is focused so much at endgame and barely any new players joining in. On top of that, it takes more grinding than BDO (Black Desert Online) to catch up to the endgame players.
Sad, since its such a good game/world and well known series.
This is normal for any old game. WoW has been basically redoing the lower level experience over and over again to combat this. There is nothing you to do with deal with this.
Lineage II also had this issue, which is why they eventually just made it to where players are sped through 1-85 (and eventually 85-99, for the most part, when you count the events they run).
There is no way around this. I don't care what game you play. After 10+ years, games stop bringing in huge influxes of new players, which causes early content to "die off."
BDO takes less time to catch up, becuase it's a newer game with a bigger focus on Quest-to-XP in the earlier levels. Travel Time is less, and here are less levels. I recommended a friend to BDO and he was level 30+ in an hour or two :-P EverQuest games were never designed to level you up at that sort of pace.
I do think the AA system in EQ2 is a lot more forgiving for catching up than EQ1, though ;-)
You won't find any 15 year old games that have tons of new players joining in, so if you ever play them you just do it with the expectation that you're going to have to slow yourself through those empty zones until you catch up. The game starts at end-game. EQ2 picked up where EQ1 left off. End Game is the major focus.
It is not a glorified AOL Instant Messenger, the way old MMOs were played in the beginning.
I'm pretty sure EQNext was the first domino in a long line of dominos that led to DBG being a washed up life support company. So as @Scorchien stated, 2009 was where it all started.
I also think they released expansions too frequently. I think Blizzard's "Expansion -> Content Update" cadence is best. SOE tried too hard to sell more boxes, and not hard enough in what what they needed to do to retain players. The Game Updates (GUs) often weren't enough, and there were some serious flaws in the game that persisted for a decade or more. Summoner Melee (Tank and Scout) pets were broken for pretty much a decade, for example.
They also had too many classes, which made for a balance nightmare. People who saw their classes in the sh*tt*r for years just left the game and went play something else. Classes like Warlocks and Enchanters were screwed when the game moved to a bigger emphasis on single target (vs. Encounter) combat, with less of a need for CC, Charm, etc.
Then, they started throwing content updates onto the Shop, which is where I bowed out (before Age of Discovery).
Additionally, and more fundamentally, the EQ client was badly developed and they never bothered to go back and fix these problems. It ran terribly on anything but super computers and almost no one could run it on the highest settings - even with the latest GPUs. A lot of people who played WoW well could barely run EQ2 on anything but "Performance" settings. I've seen PCs run WoW on High Settings that absolutely had to run EQ on Very High or Extreme Performance just to get acceptable performance. This cut them out of the casual market, to a great extent, which was a huge market for MMORPGs - especially in the time it was released (when the MMORPG market was growing rapidly).
Also, there were whole raid guilds that basically dissolved back then, because SoE overtuned the late DoV content and then released a patch that basically obsoleted high Heroic Raid Gear with sets you could PUG with randoms. Instead of doing a 2 hour raid clearing tons of trash and hard boss encounters, you could just zerg this boss waiting in an instance when you zoned in with ... almost anyone.
The day that patch was released, people were passing on Heroic Raid gear in our raid before the gear they got off this EZMode boss was "pretty much just as good." No one wanted to waste their DKP on the raid gear, which completely broke progression for a lot of guilds.
No one wanted to do those heroic raids for that stuff. The items had basically the same set bonuses, but older gear was missing some of the newer stats they were starting to add (for Wand Auto Attack, etc.).
The dungeons they addeed towards the end of DoV were so hard that almost no one were doing them. They were like high key-level Mythic+ Dungeons in WoW, Lol. They were ridiculous. You needed some of the best gear in the game to deal with them and not be frustrated and eventually leave. They were borderline impossible to PUG, and casuals were basically locked out of them. This wasn't helped by the fact that you basically needed hours just to find a group of people willing to do them (most groups would dissolve before completing them, anyways).
You needed Heroic+ Raid Geared toons, at the very least, just to get through them. It was like doing a raid with 1 party.
This Late DoV/Age of Discovery was really when the player number drop-off acceleration became REALLY noticeable. In addition to that, SoE refused to do server mergers, so the game got more and more exasperating to play (as more and more people quit).
That's when they went Free to Play - except playing for Free left even veteran players unable to equip their own gear, Lol. EQ Extended was so badly executed out of the gate, Lol.
I don't think EQNext was as huge of a domino as it seemed - at least to players. It certainly was to SoE, considering how much they invested in it... but if SoE had actually invested in EQ2 development the way Blizzard had for WoW, they should have been able to bring enough EQ players over to shut that game down (and consolidate their investment) while actually growing the game better and keeping it more populated.
IMO, EQ2 was a better game than Final Fantasy XIV, so it's hugely disappointing that they have allowed it to rot away they way they did.
Lore-wise, it's as deep a game as Warcraft or Final Fantasy. They just didn't capitalize on this nearly as well as Blizzard or Square Enix.
EQ2's garbage engine did more to hurt it than anything, because some idiot thought single-threading it entirely was a good idea and it barely even needs a GPU.
Both games announced upcoming expansions fairly recently.
The last expansion for EQ claimed to have added seven expansion zones, eight raids, new quests and missions, and a new feature for familiars.
The last expansion for EQII claimed to have added new dungeons (some for raids), four new ascension classes (whatever that is), a mercenary equipment system, and other stuff.
That seems a lot of work for games on their last legs.
The original article was focused on the lack of visibility at recent gaming events and a slowdown in communication.
That expansion you mentioned was set in motion a year or two previously and may not reflect current plans.
There have been MMOs previously which scaled back or closed shortly after the launch of an expansion, so no guarantees just from seeing one.
I dont see how you have anytime to play any MMO or even deep experience in any mmo because for the last 10 years or so you just play these forums.
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Hopefully Pantheon will be decent... well, I take that back, I know Pantheon will be better than anything Daybreak is putting out. Daybreaks all about $$$$$ now and little to no passion.
Think about all the chinese gaming companies who are desperate to get western gamers into their publishing pools. These companies have money. How did some unknown investment company end up the winner of the SOE catalogue?
I think most companies knew mmorpgs are on their deathbed and buying a catalogue of games including several on their last leg, and a buggy mess of a pvp sandbox probably yielded little to no offers. the SOE group of games seem to me to be more money pits than investment. Im betting other than H1Z1 all their games are just barely break even, and H1Z1 probably yields some profits but not much considering what they have to spend on development.
What im getting at here is that Daybreak isnt some trailblazer investment company gone gaming. Its an investment company that probably bid low and won because few bothered to bid.
So they cut all but the vital workers, killed anything that wasn't making even a slight profit, and put into their games as little as they can to eek by a profit.
I wouldn't expect anything more than keeping the games alive until the profits equal zero.
Reading up on the parent investment firm of columbus nova, they have about 200-300m investments TOTAL across all their investments. this is a small firm that seems to scoop up investments of opportunity.
For them to kill their potential money maker EQ:NEXT is all you need to know about this company. They want the quick easy money off the H1Z1 and will allow other projects to run until unprofitable then they will kill it without question. They are not about growing the brands, other than maybe H1Z1 which they failed spectacularly to grow.
Best thing they could do for the IP is sell it off to an indy company with some funding who is passionate. They can keep H1Z1 and milk that for what its worth. Do the IP justice, allow the sale of all EQ IP including the unfinished next game. The only passionate people are the leftover developers working directly on the game, there is no passion from the parent company.
Everything is sketchy from the owner claiming to not be a part of the Ogliarch's realm but he most certainly is.
There is always obvious signs,the same as i knew likely as most did that Trump is big time a crooked President that should have never been voted in.Just look back at the takeover,claims of things wil be the same,we plan on doing this and that but laid off half the employees lol.It was even funnier when they made a statement something to the effect of they were all about the community but of course laid off the community employees ,again lol.
Point being,it SHOULD shut down but it won't,they want that office there for OTHER reasons.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Folks, I'm sure your "concern" about EQ2's status is duly noted, but it's doing fine. EQ has been going since 1999. EQ2 has been going since 2004. Both are still receiving updates, expansions, and support. Both still have active player-bases. Whether the population is small or large or whatever is a moot point. The population is large and active enough to keep it going; that's all that matters.
I've picked EQ2 up again recently. Fallen Gate, the progression server, is quite active. All the usual active spots are as busy as I remember them. I've mostly been playing on my Antonia Bayle characters and that server, too, is active and doing fine. My guild has been very active with stuff happening all the time. General chat is active with people chatting about whatever they chat about there.
Anyways...
That time though around Kunark & TSO this was the best MMORPG to play hands down. It made WoW look like a child's toy even though WoW had many more subscribers.. but damn did they mess it up.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Lineage II also had this issue, which is why they eventually just made it to where players are sped through 1-85 (and eventually 85-99, for the most part, when you count the events they run).
There is no way around this. I don't care what game you play. After 10+ years, games stop bringing in huge influxes of new players, which causes early content to "die off."
BDO takes less time to catch up, becuase it's a newer game with a bigger focus on Quest-to-XP in the earlier levels. Travel Time is less, and here are less levels. I recommended a friend to BDO and he was level 30+ in an hour or two :-P EverQuest games were never designed to level you up at that sort of pace.
I do think the AA system in EQ2 is a lot more forgiving for catching up than EQ1, though ;-)
You won't find any 15 year old games that have tons of new players joining in, so if you ever play them you just do it with the expectation that you're going to have to slow yourself through those empty zones until you catch up. The game starts at end-game. EQ2 picked up where EQ1 left off. End Game is the major focus.
It is not a glorified AOL Instant Messenger, the way old MMOs were played in the beginning.
They also had too many classes, which made for a balance nightmare. People who saw their classes in the sh*tt*r for years just left the game and went play something else. Classes like Warlocks and Enchanters were screwed when the game moved to a bigger emphasis on single target (vs. Encounter) combat, with less of a need for CC, Charm, etc.
Then, they started throwing content updates onto the Shop, which is where I bowed out (before Age of Discovery).
Additionally, and more fundamentally, the EQ client was badly developed and they never bothered to go back and fix these problems. It ran terribly on anything but super computers and almost no one could run it on the highest settings - even with the latest GPUs. A lot of people who played WoW well could barely run EQ2 on anything but "Performance" settings. I've seen PCs run WoW on High Settings that absolutely had to run EQ on Very High or Extreme Performance just to get acceptable performance. This cut them out of the casual market, to a great extent, which was a huge market for MMORPGs - especially in the time it was released (when the MMORPG market was growing rapidly).
Also, there were whole raid guilds that basically dissolved back then, because SoE overtuned the late DoV content and then released a patch that basically obsoleted high Heroic Raid Gear with sets you could PUG with randoms. Instead of doing a 2 hour raid clearing tons of trash and hard boss encounters, you could just zerg this boss waiting in an instance when you zoned in with ... almost anyone.
The day that patch was released, people were passing on Heroic Raid gear in our raid before the gear they got off this EZMode boss was "pretty much just as good." No one wanted to waste their DKP on the raid gear, which completely broke progression for a lot of guilds.
No one wanted to do those heroic raids for that stuff. The items had basically the same set bonuses, but older gear was missing some of the newer stats they were starting to add (for Wand Auto Attack, etc.).
The dungeons they addeed towards the end of DoV were so hard that almost no one were doing them. They were like high key-level Mythic+ Dungeons in WoW, Lol. They were ridiculous. You needed some of the best gear in the game to deal with them and not be frustrated and eventually leave. They were borderline impossible to PUG, and casuals were basically locked out of them. This wasn't helped by the fact that you basically needed hours just to find a group of people willing to do them (most groups would dissolve before completing them, anyways).
You needed Heroic+ Raid Geared toons, at the very least, just to get through them. It was like doing a raid with 1 party.
This Late DoV/Age of Discovery was really when the player number drop-off acceleration became REALLY noticeable. In addition to that, SoE refused to do server mergers, so the game got more and more exasperating to play (as more and more people quit).
That's when they went Free to Play - except playing for Free left even veteran players unable to equip their own gear, Lol. EQ Extended was so badly executed out of the gate, Lol.
I don't think EQNext was as huge of a domino as it seemed - at least to players. It certainly was to SoE, considering how much they invested in it... but if SoE had actually invested in EQ2 development the way Blizzard had for WoW, they should have been able to bring enough EQ players over to shut that game down (and consolidate their investment) while actually growing the game better and keeping it more populated.
IMO, EQ2 was a better game than Final Fantasy XIV, so it's hugely disappointing that they have allowed it to rot away they way they did.
Lore-wise, it's as deep a game as Warcraft or Final Fantasy. They just didn't capitalize on this nearly as well as Blizzard or Square Enix.