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Building The Perfect MMORPG - What Would Be Your Defining Feature? | MMORPG.com

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  • philgonphilgon Member UncommonPosts: 8
    Archeage without P2W and more zones and COntested Mobs
    ultimateduck

    Professor Philip

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    nei1000 said:
    The biggest question is: What is making every new mmorpg that is being released be a flop or forgettable in such a short time?
    Welcome to the forums! :)
    [Deleted User]
  • SamhaelSamhael Member RarePosts: 1,534
    Something like New World but WITHOUT:
    - PvP determining owned settlements (or remove the tax BS)
    - ridiculous random drops/crafting. Yes, I really want a pair of cloth pants with + intelligence and a hammer perk?
    - key/orb requirements for dungeons
    - the stupid f-ing UI for chat
    The_Korrigan
  • FunkyMunky42FunkyMunky42 Member UncommonPosts: 18
    Take LotRO:
    Update with new graphics Engine and updated combat animations, etc. But keep the vanilla/MoM experience through entire game.
    get rid of Rohan period. Well, it IS part of the real main story, So I guess if they kept it as a side area/optional content not needed for leveling, I'd be OK with it.

    Take SWtOR:
    same process as LotRO. Updated engine, Black desert online level of character customization and graphics (kill the bubblebutt plz!), vanilla up through 2.6 experience.

    Those two MMO's were almost the pinnacle for me, but with so much recent additions the base game experiences were neutered. so give that back to me but with graphics that aren't older then my son and I'd be good.

    So I guess my ultimate involves compelling story and world building with more old school approach to class design. I don't want horribly complex class systems that require spreadsheets to optimize, but I also don't want a WoW-esque "pick a talent every 15 levels" crap.
    More vertical progression like Lost ark has then horizontal would be my only real suggestion.

    The tie in that the above 2 games have incredibly rich and deep worlds is a huge impact for me in the game, so it would have to be a very compelling and rich story, hopefully supported by books and lore from other sources. I prefer stylistic graphics over "5 million pixels in the face" graphics, and I am tired of the current crop of "eastern" themed designs, which is why Black desert is semi-appealing in it's form. More western themes in characters please. and I'd take shader based graphics like genshin impact any day of the week over the photo-realistic race. I do not need to see the individual pores in my characters skin, neither do I want to.

    Scot
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,760
    1. Open ended content, not story driven. Ties in to player agency and all content being opt-in by the player, and every players story is what they choose to participate in. Still a world full of stories, just not being pushed on to the player .. aka not story driven.

    2. Complex and tactical role based combat system. Focus on tactically outmaneuvering npcs, knowledge about npc behaviours, and a general complex behaviour pattern of said npcs. Efficient management of resources should be rewarded (player skill and gear both counts equally). Roles could be classes, but let's not box our minds into such a simple concept, it could be skill based and even a semi dynamic choice; the point is, in a combat situation, everyone has a role and how they combine their skills with that role determines the outcome (and efficiency).
    I would even take this a step further and say, in any given combat scenario, multiple tactics of any number of players working together should be a valid option...Holy trinity (if you played Everquest you should laugh at the term trinity as simplistic) might be most efficient in most cases, but any combination of roles should be able to accomplish things (just taking longer time, higher risk, etc..). THIS is NOT zerg combat, it NEEDS roles. This is variety in tactical combat options (kiting, fearing, rooting, obstance blocking, taking advantage of specific npc vulnerabilities or zone pecularities, charming and other mind fontrol, debuffing, and much more).

    3. Feeling of accomplishment. Everything must be earned in game, by playing the game. No npc handouts for mundane tasks (well and also see 1. so such things wont exist in the first place). A obviously no shop whatsoever, this includes cosmetics, pets ... just NO SHOP.
    Not even npc with gear for points systems, as those are gamey and goes against feeling of accomplishment and immersion.

    4..100. And much more. You can basically take a bunch of concepts from Everquest1 (not the sucky parts, and yes there are many), ignore most post WoW things except specific QOL features. I mean, modern mmos have specific things that are really nice that we should def steal, but they lost the spirit and that core that should be MMORPG (story driven was one, f2p was one, scaling and horizontal was one, zerg combat (no roles) was one ... All missteps for the mmorpgs).

  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 864
    No fucking stupid story. It is always feeling unnatural to see that you are the messiah like... everybody else!

    Give me a world that live and stand by itself, with enough interactions so the unexpected can happen.
    Make each thing unique or almost. If the black horned troll of the purple cave dies, it is dead. Maybe later another creature will appreciate the comfort of that cave.
    If there are some Palantirs. Maybe there are just 2 or 3. But not everyone can have one!

    Give the characters goals that are beyond killing, gathering and leveling.

    Leveling is addicting but not everything should revolve around it. Limit the scale of power provided by leveling.

    Prevent the setting of mega-alliance that stall the game. Foster player interactions vs zerging.
    Give the possibility for players to hire each others for various tasks.

    Make combat always dangerous with significant death penalty not a daily task. Give players other ways to solve dangerous situations = organically create an adventure.

    Possibly end the game, to restart it fresh later. This way the endgame is the end, the journey is really what matters.


    All in all: design MMOs like a giant boardgame with many interesting mechanics instead of reducing it to a one-way limitless hamster wheel.
    kjempffAmaranthardeniter
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,847
    Horizontal Progression


    If we're really limited to pushing just a single feature, using it as the tentpole of our design and marketing, then yeh, horizontal progression is what I'd be pushing.

    If I've built a game around horizontal progression, then a whole hell of a lot of things are implied by that:

    • Very few players have seen horizontal progression, so hopefully it'll be new and exciting for them
    • It implies a non-linear design to the world
    • It removes huge barriers to grouping up, allowing us to focus more on making use of being massively multiplayer
    • Difficulty is no longer about stats, because your power is always roughly the same. You might actually have to become a good player, rather than just stacking better gear!
    • All content in the game remains viable, rather than becoming redundant 5 minutes after I clear it
    • Expansions wont immediately nullify all the progress I have already made.



    If I was allowed to push two features, then the second would be "deep" combat mechanics. This would be harder to sell and advertise as not many people understand what this even means, plus deep mechanics generally don't make for good spectator material.

    However, we've had roughly 7 years of nothing but shallow action combat, combined with the continuing dumbing down of older games that used to have good depth. There is a section of the market that simply isn't being served by a single game right now, and apart from a few indies, there doesn't seem to be anything in development aiming to please these types of players.

    Amaranthareoloe
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,852
    Horizontal Progression


    If we're really limited to pushing just a single feature, using it as the tentpole of our design and marketing, then yeh, horizontal progression is what I'd be pushing.

    If I've built a game around horizontal progression, then a whole hell of a lot of things are implied by that:

    • Very few players have seen horizontal progression, so hopefully it'll be new and exciting for them
    • It implies a non-linear design to the world
    • It removes huge barriers to grouping up, allowing us to focus more on making use of being massively multiplayer
    • Difficulty is no longer about stats, because your power is always roughly the same. You might actually have to become a good player, rather than just stacking better gear!
    • All content in the game remains viable, rather than becoming redundant 5 minutes after I clear it
    • Expansions wont immediately nullify all the progress I have already made.



    If I was allowed to push two features, then the second would be "deep" combat mechanics. This would be harder to sell and advertise as not many people understand what this even means, plus deep mechanics generally don't make for good spectator material.

    However, we've had roughly 7 years of nothing but shallow action combat, combined with the continuing dumbing down of older games that used to have good depth. There is a section of the market that simply isn't being served by a single game right now, and apart from a few indies, there doesn't seem to be anything in development aiming to please these types of players.

    I love the idea of "Horizontal Progression", but I don't know if my idea of it is the same as yours. 
    It's still progression, in my mind. 
    And I agree with @eoloe and his comment just above yours: "Limit the scale of power provided by leveling." Otherwise, the Player Base becomes far too divided by that difference. 

    If I could add a third prime design feature, it would be all the things that cause, or are there for, INTERACTIONS. 
    Interactions between Players, interactions with the game World (objects and things, mysteries and discoveries, etc.), and with the game's Lore and world-wide plotlines (Including GM Events as well as discoveries of what's "secretly" under the hood). 


    eoloe

    Once upon a time....

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,414
    edited February 2022
    Collectibles.

    Levels based on completing stories/quests not from experience points.
  • TwistedSister77TwistedSister77 Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    edited February 2022
    Well, some people will not read the actual article and instead just reply to post headline, here's the conclusion:

    "But what about you? If you had a blank check and the most talented studio in the world, how would you go about defining your perfect MMORPG's main feature? Would it be a full-loot PvP experience? Would it be narrative or driven by the economy? How would you start to frame the building blocks of your MMORPG? Let us know in the comments below."

    Do we have an MMORPG.com( or individual staff) with actual mmorpg development desires?!  Cool.  They have my PM if serious...

    Otherwise, this topic comes up every few weeks... read those 5+ page threads for the past 10+ years.  We know how this will go... 

    However, we live in a world where content producers live and die by traffic... plus there are a few relatively new people here (who might not have seen the countless threads).  So it's cool to go back to school B)

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,014
    THe #1 feature I look for in a MMORPG is the world and is it a big place with lots to explore? If it is just quest hub to quest hub, then I lose interest very quickly...If every boss in the world is a quest boss, I lose interest very quickly. I also want it to where we have to work together to bring down tougher mobs....I dont want my guy being able to crush any mob on the planet. Make us need others.
    Amaranthar
  • jondifooljondifool Member UncommonPosts: 1,143
    Samhael said:
    Something like New World but WITHOUT:
    - PvP determining owned settlements (or remove the tax BS)
    - ridiculous random drops/crafting. Yes, I really want a pair of cloth pants with + intelligence and a hammer perk?
    - key/orb requirements for dungeons
    - the stupid f-ing UI for chat

    All of these suggestion can be considered qol suggestions, but none of them essential change how it is to be in the game that new world is. 

    I just ended my run in new world so far, around where I expected, based on my prerelease impression and research. Not expecting a lot in the first place I am not disappointed. Actual giving Lost Ark a try right now, I appreciate the open space New World gave me from the start. I mostly feel done with a game when the grind become 1-dimentional, and becoems forced. Mutaters put a line in sand for me so far in new world. 

    My earlier suggestion in this thread of having a living world by adding seasons (summer, autumn ect) to expend the pve exploration aspect of a game without making the world larger was very much made with New World in mind. If zones changed on weekly basic and gave me new challanges and new things to farm and experience, I would feel very inclined to come back to the game and revisit them and experiencing the content.
  • hupahupa Member UncommonPosts: 177
    Endgame wouldn't be about raiding and dailies. Less combat, more crafting/life/exploration/puzzles.
    When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself

    - Earl Nightingale
  • LithuanianLithuanian Member UncommonPosts: 559
    1) Choices and stories. I would take SWTORs choices, then make them really matter, so that each player could get 200 endings of same story arc.

    2) Softcore PvE only game with very easy to understand mechanic. No such thing like "5 trait trees for your toon, then 4 more for your weapon, 3 for your steed, 7 for your pet, 5 for raiding only and some 2 for specific quests.... oh, and add at least 127 regional currencies that cannot be interchanged and don't you forget 42 virtues from which you have to equip 3".
  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,460
    edited February 2022
    A very immersive world (like New World for graphics and sound), with fully dynamic content generated on the fly depending on the mob population and their migrations.

    For instance, if an orc tribe sets camp near a village, the orcs will start organizing raids on the village, steal cattle, etc... and the villagers will ask the adventurers to help them watch their village and eventually get rid of the orcs. Also, a single player would not be able to wipe out an entire orc camp, he would need a group for that, but he would be able to hunt the scouts the orcs send to the village to steal stuff.

    There would be RTS elements, like the villagers starving if the orcs steal too much food, and the adventurers could then also hunt or gather to feed the villagers in exchange of rewards.

    There would be no "nonsense" static quests like "go kill 5 rats". Everything would be dynamic and make sense in the world.
    ScotAmaranthar
    Respect, walk, what did you say?
    Respect, walk
    Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
    - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
    Yes, they are back !

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088
    Late NGE SWG (space combat, crafting, content) with classes replaced with skill system from pre NGE.
    But built with a new engine that has an actual z-axis :p
  • Greymantle_12Greymantle_12 Member UncommonPosts: 12
    The most important thing for me would be a player driven economy. That would be the foundation and go from there.
    Amaranthar
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,371
    Updated graphic engine Earth and Beyond
  • MallyxMallyx Member UncommonPosts: 47
    I don't want to feel like I'm in a game. Where all I have to do is go to some website to find the most efficient build, gear etc.

    In fact I would do away with revealing hit points and damage numbers all together. Instead use words such as graze, glance, solid hit etc to describe the damage. Also use similar descriptions for gear so you don't automatically know its a longsword + 1. Players will discover the best gear eventually but at make them work at it. Make skills improve through use and require trainer visits for new skills perhaps with quests attached.
    kjempffAmaranthar
  • LumeriaLumeria Member UncommonPosts: 61
    edited February 2022
    Guilds are a headache, finding one that isn't going to disperse within 3 months & isn't filled with ideals you joined for that doesn't match the members (or vice versa.) I'd like to see an MMORPG that lets you play on one guildless server with everybody in your continent then introduces servers of choice 3/4 months later & you earn ranks via the game itself that can then be used in a guild if you choose.

    Lazy guild leaders and officers be gone!

    Just a vague outline, but hope it makes sense.
  • KratierKratier Member RarePosts: 626
    you can armchair dev all day, the only thing that succeeds is what players want, and generally they want familiar things, so itll be a game of iteration for eternity because nobody will risk hundreds of millions on an unknown factor

    i just want a comfy classic rpg with housing and life skills that feels like a real world
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Well thankfully the question is not what would make a popular MMO, so I guess I am safe with what I am about to throw down.

    • Destructible Worlds, like Trove just so Voxel on the graphics.
    • Open world Design of GW2
    • Open World World Bosses and other large scale Teamwork/Social events of GW2.
    • Class Building of DDO
    • TR System similar to DDO
    • Dungeons of DDO
    • Club Worlds like Trove.
    • Level Scaling like GW2. So the world expands as you level up.
    • Graphics of Beta Crowfall (Very Claymation style, but still highly detailed
    Now here is the kicker, it would be "Unlimited Free Trial" it would not be a free to play the whole game. The system would be similar to DDO where there would be a lot of restrictions for a Free Account, that would go away once you spent any money at all. The main sale of the game would be from Content Packs/DLC's. but everything would be in the DLS/Adventure packs.

    You buy content, you play the content, you get the cosmetics, pets, loot, new races, new classes, whatever, and all that jazz, included in the packs.

    No need to buy tons of worthless fluff. You want the Cool Looking clockwork staff, it drops in the "End of Times" adventure pack, buy the pack and go earn your staff.

    Yes, I would also sell all the parts of the packs piecemeal. including all gear and cosmetics, for the people that wanted it, or perhaps just wanted that one thing and didn't like the pack content when their friend got them as pass. So players would have choices, which is a good thing in my book.

    I would sell "Adventuring supplies" and I would have a Sub plan.

    The sub plan would be stupid simple, pay the sub and it includes all content packs, just all of them, as well as any Expansion Style content that got put out. If a player paid the sub, they would have access to the full game no gimmicks, limitations, or restrictions.

    It would have 1 month, 3 month, 6 Month and 1 year time blocks. If you paid a year, that would lock in that same price for next year, so if you kept an annual sub, it would remain the same price for as long as you kept it up, As such if the price of the sub went up, those that kept their annual sub active would not be affected by it.  However, I would not make the same mistake that LOTRO made, and I would not offer lifetime subs.  At best you could pay 1 year at a time, for a fixed price.

    The goal of course is that my team would always be putting out more and more solid, playable content. I wager a 3 to 6 month rotation of new Adventure packs. Maybe with an Expansion style thing, that would add a massive new continent, every 2 years. and then packs for that content would be made.

    Again, if you had a sub, it's all included.

    You could buy it piecemeal as well.

    Choice is yours.

    I am sure as players came and went, they would influence design decisions, and the goal would be to make content that my players would look forward to playing. So selling packs, is an ideal way to follow what they want, as that is what they would buy.

    Equally so, if a I made a stinker of a pack, and players hated the content, but wanted some stupid thing from it, they would have the option to just buy that and be done with it.

    This would also help me chart which packs are being played, and which packs are  just having their "Sought after" stuff bought and players moving on afterwards.

    That would allow me to look at the metrics and see what my players were in fact playing, enjoying, and allow me to provide more of that too them, for them to enjoy.

    Also, I would design the game from the ground up to be mutable, as such adding in gear, classes, races, abilities, trait lines, and whatever the hell else we can think of, would be set up so that it could be done with minimal hell in the process.

    Also, there would be little in the way of "Story" but a lot in the way of Lore.

    Now, there is a reason why I would want my game to be very mutable. I would try to work with FTP, and allow players to own their characters (They would have to spend the money to buy them)

    I would also do whatever I could to allow players to import, or perhaps move their character from some old/other MMO to my game, after they proved that it was their character, and their gear, and things like that.

    The next step would be to build a stable of MMO's or make deals with other developers to allow players to transport their characters between that network of MMO's.

    Could be a fun future of gaming.
    Scot
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member EpicPosts: 1,309
    Ungood said:
    Well thankfully the question is not what would make a popular MMO, so I guess I am safe with what I am about to throw down.

    • Destructible Worlds, like Trove just so Voxel on the graphics.
    • Open world Design of GW2
    • Open World World Bosses and other large scale Teamwork/Social events of GW2.
    • Class Building of DDO
    • TR System similar to DDO
    • Dungeons of DDO
    • Club Worlds like Trove.
    • Level Scaling like GW2. So the world expands as you level up.
    • Graphics of Beta Crowfall (Very Claymation style, but still highly detailed
    Now here is the kicker, it would be "Unlimited Free Trial" it would not be a free to play the whole game. The system would be similar to DDO where there would be a lot of restrictions for a Free Account, that would go away once you spent any money at all. The main sale of the game would be from Content Packs/DLC's. but everything would be in the DLS/Adventure packs.

    You buy content, you play the content, you get the cosmetics, pets, loot, new races, new classes, whatever, and all that jazz, included in the packs.

    No need to buy tons of worthless fluff. You want the Cool Looking clockwork staff, it drops in the "End of Times" adventure pack, buy the pack and go earn your staff.

    Yes, I would also sell all the parts of the packs piecemeal. including all gear and cosmetics, for the people that wanted it, or perhaps just wanted that one thing and didn't like the pack content when their friend got them as pass. So players would have choices, which is a good thing in my book.

    I would sell "Adventuring supplies" and I would have a Sub plan.

    The sub plan would be stupid simple, pay the sub and it includes all content packs, just all of them, as well as any Expansion Style content that got put out. If a player paid the sub, they would have access to the full game no gimmicks, limitations, or restrictions.

    It would have 1 month, 3 month, 6 Month and 1 year time blocks. If you paid a year, that would lock in that same price for next year, so if you kept an annual sub, it would remain the same price for as long as you kept it up, As such if the price of the sub went up, those that kept their annual sub active would not be affected by it.  However, I would not make the same mistake that LOTRO made, and I would not offer lifetime subs.  At best you could pay 1 year at a time, for a fixed price.

    The goal of course is that my team would always be putting out more and more solid, playable content. I wager a 3 to 6 month rotation of new Adventure packs. Maybe with an Expansion style thing, that would add a massive new continent, every 2 years. and then packs for that content would be made.

    Again, if you had a sub, it's all included.

    You could buy it piecemeal as well.

    Choice is yours.

    I am sure as players came and went, they would influence design decisions, and the goal would be to make content that my players would look forward to playing. So selling packs, is an ideal way to follow what they want, as that is what they would buy.

    Equally so, if a I made a stinker of a pack, and players hated the content, but wanted some stupid thing from it, they would have the option to just buy that and be done with it.

    This would also help me chart which packs are being played, and which packs are  just having their "Sought after" stuff bought and players moving on afterwards.

    That would allow me to look at the metrics and see what my players were in fact playing, enjoying, and allow me to provide more of that too them, for them to enjoy.

    Also, I would design the game from the ground up to be mutable, as such adding in gear, classes, races, abilities, trait lines, and whatever the hell else we can think of, would be set up so that it could be done with minimal hell in the process.

    Also, there would be little in the way of "Story" but a lot in the way of Lore.

    Now, there is a reason why I would want my game to be very mutable. I would try to work with FTP, and allow players to own their characters (They would have to spend the money to buy them)

    I would also do whatever I could to allow players to import, or perhaps move their character from some old/other MMO to my game, after they proved that it was their character, and their gear, and things like that.

    The next step would be to build a stable of MMO's or make deals with other developers to allow players to transport their characters between that network of MMO's.

    Could be a fun future of gaming.
    Not that his ideas or opinion is wrong, but this is a good example of vastly different ideas of what "is" and "isn't".

    I thought GW2 world was very restricting and on rails. It wasn't remotely "open" to me.

    I thought the level scaling in GW2 was horrifically limiting. It's the main reason I left the game.

    I thought DDO was ok in a lot of ways, but it was not something I'd consider using as an example of what to do right in most ways.

    I always find it interesting how the same think could be seen so differently.

  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 864
    edited February 2022
    Ungood said:
    • Open World World Bosses


    IMHO open world bosses are a game design mistake in which a bunch of mindless players (I was one of them) keep beating the same dead horse over and over.

    People are just spending time here clicking, getting their loot, and leave "move along there is nothing to see" style. Nobody cares in fact simply because there is nothing to care about!

    It would be meaningful if the boss would not come back over and over to be killed, which is highlighting it as a gamey asset instead of fostering immersion.


    ultimateduck
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 1,132
    eoloe said:
    Ungood said:
    • Open World World Bosses


    IMHO open world bosses are a game design mistake in which a bunch of mindless players (I was one of them) keep beating the same dead horse over and over.

    People are just spending time here clicking, getting their loot, and leave "move along there is nothing to see" style. Nobody cares in fact simply because there is nothing to care about!

    It would be meaningful if the boss would not come back over and over to be killed, which is highlighting it as a gamey asset instead of fostering immersion.


    The best way to handle world bosses is to let enemies level up and put similar low end enemies in the same location. After a while one of the lower enemies will evolve into a world boss. 

    for each type of enemy have a pathway to worldboss level  that's possible and let the machine do its thing.  
    .05 of a second to midnight
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