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A Realm Reborn Finale Changes Reviewed: Final Fantasy 14's Praetorium, Cape Westwind, And More

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
Post edited by StevenWeber on

Comments

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    Overall what I come away with from the article is that the difficulty has been reduced in various ways...what a surprise, do studios know any other form of developing gameplay than making it easier?

    When it comes to cut scenes I think if you have seen them once you should be able to skip any of them as long as everyone in your party has seen them.

    There does seem to have been some evening out of jagged edges in gameplay which made sense, but new players should not expect to get the hang of everything first time, you don't get better at anything by always winning.
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,485
    They still haven't made duty support on trash mobs faster? This is the main reason I just PUG duties instead of messing with the NPC. It's painfully slower.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • WarzodWarzod Member RarePosts: 508
    So basically instead of fixing the 'one thing' that would solve 99% of the game's content problems they decide once again to cut more of it out. The problem isn't the mechanics, or the mobs, or the cut scenes. The problem is Square Enix has never bothered to implement a working power scale system. If they spent half the time they do on gutting content and making the game easier to skip on a system that actually scaled player power to be appropriate for earlier fights we wouldn't have this problem.

    This is all about making the game easier and easier so that players will quickly get to the later expansions and buy them. SE is the Gaius van Baelsar or playing to the lowest common denominator to make the most money. Such childlike gameplay was absolutely their intention.
    Scot
  • DairiosDairios Member UncommonPosts: 22
    The revamped dungeons have been fantastic, I used to dread getting Castrum Meridianum for msq roulette, but now its enjoyable, the fights feel worthwhile and I'm more engaged in whats going on. Its not just a zerg rush.

    Level 50 content for the msq was never endgame, it was never "hard" to begin with, and it certainly hasn't been made "easy". Just more streamlined and less time-devouring. I enjoy the revamp, and I'm glad that SE cares to address such old content to help people still getting started.
  • SpookmggSpookmgg Member UncommonPosts: 18
    I just read the comments by Scot, Tiller and Warzod, and frankly it appears that neither of you has done those dungeons since they were changed. Like Dairios said, "the revamped dungeons have been fantastic". The two solo instances (Cape Westwind and Lahabrea) are much more epic; before they were simply squish the boss and move on. Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium are much more streamlined and, because they are now 4-man, are no longer a rush through. All in all I consider the changes to be very much for the better.
    Scot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    Spookmgg said:
    I just read the comments by Scot, Tiller and Warzod, and frankly it appears that neither of you has done those dungeons since they were changed. Like Dairios said, "the revamped dungeons have been fantastic". The two solo instances (Cape Westwind and Lahabrea) are much more epic; before they were simply squish the boss and move on. Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium are much more streamlined and, because they are now 4-man, are no longer a rush through. All in all I consider the changes to be very much for the better.
    I don't play FF Spook, its a MMO I am interested in as I am trying to find something new, been waiting for this graphical update that is going to be happening. So you don't see this as reducing content then? It is just that we have heard a lot about reducing the need to do story quests before this and the smaller a raid team is the less complex a dungeon tends to be.
  • ThandraugThandraug Newbie CommonPosts: 1
    There is a difference between reducing content and updating the presentation of something painfully unappealing.

    The final dungeons have been a drag for most of A Realm Reborn's lifespan. It was tons of time wasted running around in circles. It was tons of pointless cutscenes that you either could not skip, or were forced to skip if you wanted to even see the dungeon. It required 8 players just for the sake of being end-game content while every boss did nothing worthy of having 8 bodies. There was tons of waiting around for something to happen or 1 person handling the heavy lifting to make it go slightly faster.

    Now, the bosses have actual mechanics to perform. Stacks exist, tank busters happen, aoe patterns are shown that have to be dodged. It is possible to win without a healer, but not particularly pleasant, and a lack of one player is noticed, so everyone's participation feels relevant. Moreover, the duties don't take forever to do, so more veterans are running them more often.

    I have nothing but good things to say about the changes they made. The things that made the original versions of these dungeons clever were completely overshadowed by how un-rewarding it was to do so. We swapped from a passive-aggressive mob mentality waiting game to some engaging solo duties, a REAL set of final two dungeons, and a trial which engage new players. They are more polished, engaging for new players while not overly difficult, and prioritize capturing the essence of the story's final battle.

    Anything that was left behind is nostalgia for something that doesn't deserve it. The game is 10 years old. It is a GOOD thing for the crusty elements of the past to evolve with it.
    finefluff
  • fineflufffinefluff Member RarePosts: 561
    edited June 2022
    Haven't played it yet, but I agree these changes are good. They are necessary because these dungeons were part of the main scenario roulette. The roulette is the daily dungeon system that endgame players queue into for tomestones (used to purchase gear). Main scenario is one of the categories you can choose to queue for.

    Max level players have done these scenarios many, many times and want to rush through them as quickly as possible. But why would the developers incentivize players to rerun these few dungeons over and over again?

    The reason is because they are a significant part of the main story and the roulette system ensures that new players will always have someone to queue with. Progressing through these dungeons is mandatory, so it wouldn't be good if it was hard for a new player to find people. They wouldn't be able to progress their character until they do.

    But still, it resulted in a bad experience for new players because they can't really tell what's going on when everyone is rushing. These changes break the scenarios into smaller, more straight forward experiences to help alleviate that problem.
    Scot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    Thandraug said:
    There is a difference between reducing content and updating the presentation of something painfully unappealing.

    The final dungeons have been a drag for most of A Realm Reborn's lifespan. It was tons of time wasted running around in circles. It was tons of pointless cutscenes that you either could not skip, or were forced to skip if you wanted to even see the dungeon. It required 8 players just for the sake of being end-game content while every boss did nothing worthy of having 8 bodies. There was tons of waiting around for something to happen or 1 person handling the heavy lifting to make it go slightly faster.

    Now, the bosses have actual mechanics to perform. Stacks exist, tank busters happen, aoe patterns are shown that have to be dodged. It is possible to win without a healer, but not particularly pleasant, and a lack of one player is noticed, so everyone's participation feels relevant. Moreover, the duties don't take forever to do, so more veterans are running them more often.

    I have nothing but good things to say about the changes they made. The things that made the original versions of these dungeons clever were completely overshadowed by how un-rewarding it was to do so. We swapped from a passive-aggressive mob mentality waiting game to some engaging solo duties, a REAL set of final two dungeons, and a trial which engage new players. They are more polished, engaging for new players while not overly difficult, and prioritize capturing the essence of the story's final battle.

    Anything that was left behind is nostalgia for something that doesn't deserve it. The game is 10 years old. It is a GOOD thing for the crusty elements of the past to evolve with it.
    Welcome to the forums! :)
  • SpookmggSpookmgg Member UncommonPosts: 18

    Scot said:


    Spookmgg said:

    I just read the comments by Scot, Tiller and Warzod, and frankly it appears that neither of you has done those dungeons since they were changed. Like Dairios said, "the revamped dungeons have been fantastic". The two solo instances (Cape Westwind and Lahabrea) are much more epic; before they were simply squish the boss and move on. Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium are much more streamlined and, because they are now 4-man, are no longer a rush through. All in all I consider the changes to be very much for the better.


    I don't play FF Spook, its a MMO I am interested in as I am trying to find something new, been waiting for this graphical update that is going to be happening. So you don't see this as reducing content then? It is just that we have heard a lot about reducing the need to do story quests before this and the smaller a raid team is the less complex a dungeon tends to be.



    Instead of playing through the new dungeons on my Main using New Game +, I created a new character simply to follow the modified story. They did not reduce content, they simply streamlined it and made it doable with a 4-man team or a solo instance. You need to realize that the 8-mans were a mad rush ignoring all mechanics. The 4-mans are absolutely not. The solo instances replaced 8-man 20 second fights with 5-10 minute epic battles which give a much more in dept sense of the bosses you are battling. The changes they made were very much for the better and enriched the content. They took nothing away.
    Scot
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,700
    Definitely an improvement and received a widespread approval on my World - Chaos.
    They've managed to retain some of the popular characterizations, whilst reducing the instance lengths and also adding some new mechanics. 
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    Spookmgg said:

    Scot said:


    Spookmgg said:

    I just read the comments by Scot, Tiller and Warzod, and frankly it appears that neither of you has done those dungeons since they were changed. Like Dairios said, "the revamped dungeons have been fantastic". The two solo instances (Cape Westwind and Lahabrea) are much more epic; before they were simply squish the boss and move on. Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium are much more streamlined and, because they are now 4-man, are no longer a rush through. All in all I consider the changes to be very much for the better.


    I don't play FF Spook, its a MMO I am interested in as I am trying to find something new, been waiting for this graphical update that is going to be happening. So you don't see this as reducing content then? It is just that we have heard a lot about reducing the need to do story quests before this and the smaller a raid team is the less complex a dungeon tends to be.



    Instead of playing through the new dungeons on my Main using New Game +, I created a new character simply to follow the modified story. They did not reduce content, they simply streamlined it and made it doable with a 4-man team or a solo instance. You need to realize that the 8-mans were a mad rush ignoring all mechanics. The 4-mans are absolutely not. The solo instances replaced 8-man 20 second fights with 5-10 minute epic battles which give a much more in dept sense of the bosses you are battling. The changes they made were very much for the better and enriched the content. They took nothing away.
    I am so used to hearing about content being removed from MMORPG's like STO that my knee jerk reaction was to think its happened again. My bad.
  • Odi101Odi101 Member UncommonPosts: 54

    Scot said:

    Overall what I come away with from the article is that the difficulty has been reduced in various ways...what a surprise, do studios know any other form of developing gameplay than making it easier?



    When it comes to cut scenes I think if you have seen them once you should be able to skip any of them as long as everyone in your party has seen them.



    There does seem to have been some evening out of jagged edges in gameplay which made sense, but new players should not expect to get the hang of everything first time, you don't get better at anything by always winning.



    That's not at all what the article says. Un-needed aspects have either been removed or reworked. All of the fights mentioned are now actually a challenge. For new players all of these fights are now actually fights and not just target dummies.

    Have you played either the originals or new versions?
  • Odi101Odi101 Member UncommonPosts: 54

    Scot said:


    Spookmgg said:



    Scot said:




    Spookmgg said:


    I just read the comments by Scot, Tiller and Warzod, and frankly it appears that neither of you has done those dungeons since they were changed. Like Dairios said, "the revamped dungeons have been fantastic". The two solo instances (Cape Westwind and Lahabrea) are much more epic; before they were simply squish the boss and move on. Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium are much more streamlined and, because they are now 4-man, are no longer a rush through. All in all I consider the changes to be very much for the better.




    I don't play FF Spook, its a MMO I am interested in as I am trying to find something new, been waiting for this graphical update that is going to be happening. So you don't see this as reducing content then? It is just that we have heard a lot about reducing the need to do story quests before this and the smaller a raid team is the less complex a dungeon tends to be.






    Instead of playing through the new dungeons on my Main using New Game +, I created a new character simply to follow the modified story. They did not reduce content, they simply streamlined it and made it doable with a 4-man team or a solo instance. You need to realize that the 8-mans were a mad rush ignoring all mechanics. The 4-mans are absolutely not. The solo instances replaced 8-man 20 second fights with 5-10 minute epic battles which give a much more in dept sense of the bosses you are battling. The changes they made were very much for the better and enriched the content. They took nothing away.


    I am so used to hearing about content being removed from MMORPG's like STO that my knee jerk reaction was to think its happened again. My bad.



    Also, yeah sorry. Yours was really the only comment I read and was also a knee jerk reaction comment.
  • Odi101Odi101 Member UncommonPosts: 54

    Scot said:


    Spookmgg said:

    I just read the comments by Scot, Tiller and Warzod, and frankly it appears that neither of you has done those dungeons since they were changed. Like Dairios said, "the revamped dungeons have been fantastic". The two solo instances (Cape Westwind and Lahabrea) are much more epic; before they were simply squish the boss and move on. Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium are much more streamlined and, because they are now 4-man, are no longer a rush through. All in all I consider the changes to be very much for the better.


    I don't play FF Spook, its a MMO I am interested in as I am trying to find something new, been waiting for this graphical update that is going to be happening. So you don't see this as reducing content then? It is just that we have heard a lot about reducing the need to do story quests before this and the smaller a raid team is the less complex a dungeon tends to be.



    The graphical update that'll be happening, as far as I can tell, is mostly going to be improving shaders, with some other things added to environments, like ground clutter and grass. If you know what gshade is you can just use that to improve what the game looks like. I broke down and started using it around 6 months ago. Right after EW launch.

    Basically, don't let graphics keep you from trying a really good mmo. You can improve that yourself while waiting for the official upgrades.
    Scot
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