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The Elder Scrolls Online Previews Update 35's Major Combat Overhauls | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599

imageThe Elder Scrolls Online Previews Update 35's Major Combat Overhauls | MMORPG.com

Major combat overhauls are coming next month to The Elder Scrolls Online. the team has a preview of what to expect from the major changes to reduce barriers in combat.

Read the full story here


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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,262
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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,478
    Awesome news. Loving the game after years of only dabbling.
    I have a good guild (or 3 lol)
    completed all of High Isle which was awesome and finally beat this particular cat guy at Tribute after so many failed attempts =)
    Life in ESO has been good
    Great to see you are so enjoying a B2P game that launched as sub only. ;)
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    The overall DPS nerf is not a bad thing. Their sales job trying to characterize it as helping close the gap between low-end and high-end players is pretty lame and transparent PR, because...

    1. They are reducing light and heavy attack damage for everyone. They are trying to say that high end players will be nerfed more than lower end players because they "weave" light attacks more, ignoring the fact that lower end players typically have more severe resource management issues and find themselves unable to do anything other than light and heavy attack often compared to the higher end players who also know how to manage their resources better, and...

    2. They are increasing the duration of DOTs and buffs allegedly to help players who have a hard time handling a rotation that includes 10 second skills by making those last 20 seconds instead... BUT, at the same time they are lowering how much damage each tick of a DOT does. If this were truly just about helping those players manage skill rotations better, why lower the damage each tick does? They're making it the equivalent of casting the skill twice so why not just double the cost and leave the damage per tick the same?

    DPS definitely can use a nerf. I just wish they'd be honest about it and tell us that's why they're doing it. No need to spin it as helping close the gap between players when it does nothing of the sort.
    Celcius2TonGamerAndemnon
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,262
    edited July 2022
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  • Kozo25Kozo25 Member UncommonPosts: 25
    the game makes you sub by limiting your inventory space whicn in itself expensive. game is fun for sure. but for me its always just missing soemthing . cant put a finger on it ,, I played eq 1 from betas same with eq 2 ect
  • VidahrVidahr Member UncommonPosts: 123



    Scot said:



    Awesome news. Loving the game after years of only dabbling.

    I have a good guild (or 3 lol)

    completed all of High Isle which was awesome and finally beat this particular cat guy at Tribute after so many failed attempts =)

    Life in ESO has been good


    Great to see you are so enjoying a B2P game that launched as sub only. ;)


    It is just a sub game as far as I am concerned.
    I personally would never play ESO without a sub.
    it's on Gamepass also so sub to play for some players lol 




    Crafting bag is life.
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    Iselin said:
    The overall DPS nerf is not a bad thing. Their sales job trying to characterize it as helping close the gap between low-end and high-end players is pretty lame and transparent PR, because...

    1. They are reducing light and heavy attack damage for everyone. They are trying to say that high end players will be nerfed more than lower end players because they "weave" light attacks more, ignoring the fact that lower end players typically have more severe resource management issues and find themselves unable to do anything other than light and heavy attack often compared to the higher end players who also know how to manage their resources better, and...

    2. They are increasing the duration of DOTs and buffs allegedly to help players who have a hard time handling a rotation that includes 10 second skills by making those last 20 seconds instead... BUT, at the same time they are lowering how much damage each tick of a DOT does. If this were truly just about helping those players manage skill rotations better, why lower the damage each tick does? They're making it the equivalent of casting the skill twice so why not just double the cost and leave the damage per tick the same?

    DPS definitely can use a nerf. I just wish they'd be honest about it and tell us that's why they're doing it. No need to spin it as helping close the gap between players when it does nothing of the sort.
    If they wanted to truly level that playing field, they could fix the glitch (or whatever they would like to call it now that it's an accepted part of the combat system) that created the situation in the first place and work on adding some more depth in a way that isn't so M1 spammy.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Iselin said:
    The overall DPS nerf is not a bad thing. Their sales job trying to characterize it as helping close the gap between low-end and high-end players is pretty lame and transparent PR, because...

    1. They are reducing light and heavy attack damage for everyone. They are trying to say that high end players will be nerfed more than lower end players because they "weave" light attacks more, ignoring the fact that lower end players typically have more severe resource management issues and find themselves unable to do anything other than light and heavy attack often compared to the higher end players who also know how to manage their resources better, and...

    2. They are increasing the duration of DOTs and buffs allegedly to help players who have a hard time handling a rotation that includes 10 second skills by making those last 20 seconds instead... BUT, at the same time they are lowering how much damage each tick of a DOT does. If this were truly just about helping those players manage skill rotations better, why lower the damage each tick does? They're making it the equivalent of casting the skill twice so why not just double the cost and leave the damage per tick the same?

    DPS definitely can use a nerf. I just wish they'd be honest about it and tell us that's why they're doing it. No need to spin it as helping close the gap between players when it does nothing of the sort.
    If they wanted to truly level that playing field, they could fix the glitch (or whatever they would like to call it now that it's an accepted part of the combat system) that created the situation in the first place and work on adding some more depth in a way that isn't so M1 spammy.
    Not only will they not do that but in the same post that talked about these nerfs they praised animation cancelling as something that sets ESO combat apart and makes it better than others.

    They're very deep in that rabbit hole over there.

    It's a long thread on their forums about this and I saw one novel suggestion that made sense to me: have an option to disable the use of light and heavy attacks and their  weaving - which is the most common type of cancelling - and in return for that option you get some equivalent +% damage increase, resource regen and ultimate points generation which are the things that weaving LAs and HAs give you.

    It doesn't remove cancelling which they will obviously never do but that actually would bring up the lower level players,
    TheDalaiBombaAndemnon
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,478
    Kozo25 said:
    the game makes you sub by limiting your inventory space which in itself expensive. game is fun for sure. but for me its always just missing something . cant put a finger on it ,, I played eq 1 from betas same with eq 2 ect
    Welcome to the forums! :)
  • SensaiSensai Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    The overall DPS nerf is not a bad thing. Their sales job trying to characterize it as helping close the gap between low-end and high-end players is pretty lame and transparent PR, because...

    1. They are reducing light and heavy attack damage for everyone. They are trying to say that high end players will be nerfed more than lower end players because they "weave" light attacks more, ignoring the fact that lower end players typically have more severe resource management issues and find themselves unable to do anything other than light and heavy attack often compared to the higher end players who also know how to manage their resources better, and...

    2. They are increasing the duration of DOTs and buffs allegedly to help players who have a hard time handling a rotation that includes 10 second skills by making those last 20 seconds instead... BUT, at the same time they are lowering how much damage each tick of a DOT does. If this were truly just about helping those players manage skill rotations better, why lower the damage each tick does? They're making it the equivalent of casting the skill twice so why not just double the cost and leave the damage per tick the same?

    DPS definitely can use a nerf. I just wish they'd be honest about it and tell us that's why they're doing it. No need to spin it as helping close the gap between players when it does nothing of the sort.
    If they wanted to truly level that playing field, they could fix the glitch (or whatever they would like to call it now that it's an accepted part of the combat system) that created the situation in the first place and work on adding some more depth in a way that isn't so M1 spammy.
    Not only will they not do that but in the same post that talked about these nerfs they praised animation cancelling as something that sets ESO combat apart and makes it better than others.

    They're very deep in that rabbit hole over there.

    It's a long thread on their forums about this and I saw one novel suggestion that made sense to me: have an option to disable the use of light and heavy attacks and their  weaving - which is the most common type of cancelling - and in return for that option you get some equivalent +% damage increase, resource regen and ultimate points generation which are the things that weaving LAs and HAs give you.

    It doesn't remove cancelling which they will obviously never do but that actually would bring up the lower level players,
    IIRC, they either admitted or strongly insinuated that they looked at fixing it at one point and no one could figure out the code.  It was then rebranded as a skill feature,  rather than a bug.  Regardless, while animation canceling does set TESO apart from many other games, it in no way makes it better.

    image

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Sensai said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    The overall DPS nerf is not a bad thing. Their sales job trying to characterize it as helping close the gap between low-end and high-end players is pretty lame and transparent PR, because...

    1. They are reducing light and heavy attack damage for everyone. They are trying to say that high end players will be nerfed more than lower end players because they "weave" light attacks more, ignoring the fact that lower end players typically have more severe resource management issues and find themselves unable to do anything other than light and heavy attack often compared to the higher end players who also know how to manage their resources better, and...

    2. They are increasing the duration of DOTs and buffs allegedly to help players who have a hard time handling a rotation that includes 10 second skills by making those last 20 seconds instead... BUT, at the same time they are lowering how much damage each tick of a DOT does. If this were truly just about helping those players manage skill rotations better, why lower the damage each tick does? They're making it the equivalent of casting the skill twice so why not just double the cost and leave the damage per tick the same?

    DPS definitely can use a nerf. I just wish they'd be honest about it and tell us that's why they're doing it. No need to spin it as helping close the gap between players when it does nothing of the sort.
    If they wanted to truly level that playing field, they could fix the glitch (or whatever they would like to call it now that it's an accepted part of the combat system) that created the situation in the first place and work on adding some more depth in a way that isn't so M1 spammy.
    Not only will they not do that but in the same post that talked about these nerfs they praised animation cancelling as something that sets ESO combat apart and makes it better than others.

    They're very deep in that rabbit hole over there.

    It's a long thread on their forums about this and I saw one novel suggestion that made sense to me: have an option to disable the use of light and heavy attacks and their  weaving - which is the most common type of cancelling - and in return for that option you get some equivalent +% damage increase, resource regen and ultimate points generation which are the things that weaving LAs and HAs give you.

    It doesn't remove cancelling which they will obviously never do but that actually would bring up the lower level players,
    IIRC, they either admitted or strongly insinuated that they looked at fixing it at one point and no one could figure out the code.  It was then rebranded as a skill feature,  rather than a bug.  Regardless, while animation canceling does set TESO apart from many other games, it in no way makes it better.
    Their words, not mine:

    "Doing so drastically increases your agency and output, and it is a staple of the game that we’ve come to embrace, as it helps our combat feel different and exciting to participate in once you learn the ins and outs."
    TheDalaiBomba
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    That's unfortunate. The way they did animation canceling I still feel is detrimental since when you're talking about late game and high end DPS, it becomes a sort of demand to play that way.

    In part I just don't find it natural, as it's largely taking advantage of stacking the effect of an ability you aren't even letting play out.

    Wish they'd at least mitigate it by delaying damage/effect execution by a fraction of a second. Force it so the damage only counts when the animation has reached the visual hit stage. 
    IselinAndemnon
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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    I am just having fun with the game.
    I could tear it down for what it isn't (weird guild system, auction house, combat)  but honestly for what it is the value is there for me personally. 
    MMORPGS are mobile affairs now more than any other platform so one that provides a fun experience on a platform I prefer is a win for the game.
    One that I am actually really enjoying is a double bonus. 

    Well yeah. I would not have played it for 8+ years on and off but mostly on, if I didn't have fun with it.

    The balance of good and bad is good for me or I wouldn't have gone back this past January and spent 6 months subbed to it.

    But the more you play it and the higher level you try to play it at, the more some warts stick out, the more you understand how systems interact and the more intelligently critical you can be of the fine details of the system and proposed changes.

    I don't hold back on criticism just because I have fun in it especially not when what they're saying the reason they are about to make changes is, makes no sense and will likely accomplish the opposite.

    Take the proposed time doubling for DOTs. What it actually does is that on a given 20 second rotation (which is a rare instance since you only ever have a 20 second rotation in boss fights and only bosses that can be "tanked and spanked" at that, which are not common bosses) to use their example of 10 second skills becoming 20 seconds, it frees you up to do 1 or 2 additional skill casts in that time frame since there won't be a need to refresh the 1 or 2 DOTs that are part of the rotation.

    This benefits anyone who has their rotation timing down pat, never missing their 1 second GCD skill window and always adding a light attack to the skill. It does not benefit anyone who does not have a tight rotation and doesn't weave in light attacks always.

    And yet it's being portrayed as something that will help the lower end players become more comparable to higher end players... how exactly will it do that when the DOT's damage per tick is being reduced and the deficit can only be made up with perfect rotation timing? This will obviously hurt the lower end players more by lowering the DPS of a skill they are not skilled enough to compensate for with perfect timing.

    It's shit like that,which drives me nuts because it makes zero sense.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,262
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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Uwakionna said:

    Wish they'd at least mitigate it by delaying damage/effect execution by a fraction of a second. Force it so the damage only counts when the animation has reached the visual hit stage. 
    I've suggested that a bazillion times. I've even been more radical with my suggestion - not delaying the damage by a fraction of a second but putting it at the actual animation end.

    That gets rid of any incentive to abuse animation cancelling, while leaving it alone for all the legit purposes of it such as dodging, blocking or bashing for defensive or strategic purposes. You would just lose DPS when you cancel instead of getting to cancel whenever at no cost.
    Andemnon
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    Uwakionna said:
    That's unfortunate. The way they did animation canceling I still feel is detrimental since when you're talking about late game and high end DPS, it becomes a sort of demand to play that way.

    In part I just don't find it natural, as it's largely taking advantage of stacking the effect of an ability you aren't even letting play out.

    Wish they'd at least mitigate it by delaying damage/effect execution by a fraction of a second. Force it so the damage only counts when the animation has reached the visual hit stage. 
    For me, anytime a game's systems intentionally result in jarring on-screen action (such as an animation being cancelled halfway through), I cannot help but feel a pang of annoyance at it.

    The original Chivalry was like this, with no turn caps on swings.  People were 180-ing away from their opponents, crouching, looking at the sky, and trying to overhead stab folks *on the overhead windup animation.*  and it was considered "skillful."

    I didn't play Chivalry again until Chiv2, where they now have turn caps and such to avoid such ridiculousness.
  • kittyluv4everkittyluv4ever Member UncommonPosts: 2
    I would return to ESO in a heartbeat if they got rid of weaving all together. No amount of "skill" compensates for server lag when trying to weave. Impossible to weave when the light attack won't actually fire off, and I have a more than adequate pc and hs internet service.
    Scot
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