Originally posted by AzathothWhat you point out, I agree with. However, if you don't pay for AO, you watch ads. Guild Wars sells expansions. They both turn profit, and accordingly are greedy by FonzyBears standards. At least that's what I gather... If I am wrong, please correct me.
You are correct in saying you misunderstand me. I'm only refering to the companies that are profitting way more than needed. This includes and is not limited to WoW. Guild Wars has no monthly fee and despite it costing just as much to run that game as the "big time" subsciption fee games such as WoW they still turn a profit of 10s of millions. The greedy companies are turning profits of 10, 50 even 100 times more than this. Its way more than needed to make everyone happy and its just plain ripping off the people who buy into the whole line of bull they feed to get you to pay the fee.
I'm feel sorry for the many people have been brainwashed when it comes to companies and profit and no matter how high the profit is these people will always say their not being greedy. Perhaps they can answer this question. If the monthly fee were say $50 per month for your favorite pay to play and always has been would you still pay it and say its not greedy of them to charge that much? If your answer is yes you think they are greedy for charging that much more per month then why say charging almost 4 times as much as needed now is not greed? I just hope one day more and more will wake up and realize what is going on and stop buying into the rip off. People have come up with so many excuses for the companies to justify it. Its worse than crack addicts coming up with excuses to get money to feed their addiction.
Originally posted by FonzyBear Originally posted by AzathothWhat you point out, I agree with. However, if you don't pay for AO, you watch ads. Guild Wars sells expansions. They both turn profit, and accordingly are greedy by FonzyBears standards. At least that's what I gather... If I am wrong, please correct me.
You are correct in saying you misunderstand me. I'm only refering to the companies that are profitting way more than needed. This includes and is not limited to WoW. Guild Wars has no monthly fee and despite it costing just as much to run that game as the "big time" subsciption fee games such as WoW they still turn a profit of 10s of millions. The greedy companies are turning profits of 10, 50 even 100 times more than this. Its way more than needed to make everyone happy and its just plain ripping off the people who buy into the whole line of bull they feed to get you to pay the fee.
I'm feel sorry for the many people have been brainwashed when it comes to companies and profit and no matter how high the profit is these people will always say their not being greedy. Perhaps they can answer this question. If the monthly fee were say $50 per month for your favorite pay to play and always has been would you still pay it and say its not greedy of them to charge that much? If your answer is yes you think they are greedy for charging that much more per month then why say charging almost 4 times as much as needed now is not greed? I just hope one day more and more will wake up and realize what is going on and stop buying into the rip off. People have come up with so many excuses for the companies to justify it. Its worse than crack addicts coming up with excuses to get money to feed their addiction.
Now who's brainwashed? You sound like a overly eager student of Marx's version of unobtainable utopia.
You really dont think the companies are turning out these games for charity do you? As for subscription fee, it's simple economics - suply and demand. Guild Wars would not have enjoyed the success it has if it was subscription based, plain and simple, World of Warcraft on the other hand would not have enjoyed the profit's it's making with subscription as it would have done without a subscription fee.
Here's a very interesting quote about greed from from the movie Wall Street:
“Greed, for lack of a better word, is good! Greed is right! Greed works! Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms."
Those people coming up with the excuses arent the developoers, it's the regular fans trying to defend something they like and have no objections with, but dont really know how to counter egocentric moralists (or indeed don't know better and are simply assuming).
Personally i'm more than happy to pay a subscription fee for a few very simple reasons.
It (usually) keeps the 'short attention span' kids away
When you play it is an investment of time and money, thus making the game a longlasting experience
Since it's both a time and money investment, people are less likely to jeopardize their account by griefing other players (eventhough on the inside theyre really rotten assholes and are dying to bully others)
As for the money they're making on all of these subscriptions? Good for them! I hope to reap such bountyfull rewards in fair trade myself some day...
Cheers!
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
As I said before it seems it does no good to try and convice someone who is dead set to believe there is nothing wrong with the greed. Being happy to pay the price is what I mean in part by brainwashed. But becasue they don't understood that the company is greedy and that you could be playing the game at the cost of the $50 of the box off the shelf and that they could spend the monthly fee money on something else they are brainwashed into paying that fee. The reasons why they are paying the fee is just justification covering up the greed of the company.
Lets look at a game like WOW they are making lots of money with their subscriptions, which should more than cover the cost of the servers and support staff.
The original box cost covers the cost of developing the game in the first place.
So will they release the expansion for free or charge for it? The expansion should keep people playing longer so the ongoing subscriptions should cover the development cost - so is it greed that they will charge for it?
Or are the just following the industry model set by games like EQ?
NCsoft is going along way to challenge these so called accepted standard payment models.
Look at this game - we pay for the box, pay a subscription and they are going to release planets as new expansions. Of course I should note here WOW has also released additional content for free.
When companies make huge profits - people object to paying various fees. Look at banking. Here in Australia the major banks make like $4 billion profit a year. So why should I a long term loyal customer pay a $5 account keeping fee every month. I do all my banking online. Sure its only $60 a year, but that $60 means a lot more to me than it does to them. For $60 I could get a pair of new shoes for one of my kids.
If you funds are tight and you have to justify every dollar spent out of your budget, then small fees to companies making big profits does seem like greed. When you have plenty of surplus in your budget thats when you dont complain about paying more money for entertainment.
So in my own case I have a limited budget to spend on gaming a year. That means I buy 4 or 5 games a year. Paying a monthly fee for a game cuts into the other games I can buy. So thats why I am playing guild wars at the moment - no monthly fee.
That said - Guild Wars is great as its hooked me and probably lots more people who wouldnt have otherwise tried a MMORPG into playing them. So now I am looking at what I will play next - and to me I would pay a monthly fee to play TR and also Heroes Journey. It means a couple of games I wont be able to buy - but I will be so busy playing these two I wouldnt have time to play other games anyway.
So all I can say to FonzyBear is - I dont know your financial circumstances, only you can decide if you are prepared to pay the fees particular games are asking for. But as long as enough other people do - companies will keep making games, and charging them. And if you arent prepared to pay the fees - check out NCSofts new games they will be releasing with no monthly payment.
From another point of view - if there wasnt such potential for making large profits - many companies wouldnt be able to find the capital to make these games and their would be a lot less games to choose from.
Originally posted by FonzyBear We all need to boycott pay to play games. The companies can run these games without charging monthly fee. Greed is why companies charge monthly fees.
GREED is why companies EXIST.
Companies exist to make money, not provide us with mmorpgs.
It would seem you understand where I'm coming from more. You do bring up one thing I'd like to point out and that all money brought in offsets the initial cost of developement. The bottom line profit at the end of a year includes all costs. So the 100s of millions and even billions of dollars in profit is after the dev costs, after the maintainance costs, after payroll, etc.
Sure if I was making say 100,000 a year I wouldn't even bat an eye at a $15/month fee but that deosn't change my view of a greedy company. Because greed is not defind by how much I make but by how much the company makes.
Here are some definitions:
Websters: excessive or reprehensible acquisitiveness.
dictionary.com: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.
It isn't greed, it's simple supply and demand. The market adjusts itself... they will charge us what ever we are willing to pay. I personally think 50 cents a day for unlimited gameplay is a pretty good deal, and apparently so do enough other people for that to have become the standard pricing.
Companies do not sell their goods and services at the lowest possible price that will allow them to stay in business. The prospect of getting rich, or at least living comfortably off the fruits of your labor, is what drives people in a free market to make something better than their competitors.
I really think it's a little silly, and a lot naive to call it greed. We are willing to pay 50 cents a day, so they are going to charge us 50 cents a day... even if they could have gotten by with 25 cents a day. I am curious how old you are Fonzy, not as a dig... i am just really baffled about your perspective on economics, and I can't help but imagine that you are a teenager. Is that correct?
You would not be correct on my age. However its irrelevant to the topic. I know what I'm talking about. I understand full well the information I read in the finacial statements and the calculations done to conclude what I have concluded. There is nothing new I can say but I feel it worth repeating that I feel sorry for all of you who are buying into paying a monthly fee for a number of games including WoW when aside from the greed could be playing the same game and keeping the extra $180 your feeding them with per year. To me if they wish to charge a monthly fee and people like to pay for the game that way I think if the fee was say $5 a month and I bought the game off the shelf for say $40 it would be more within reason and below the line of greed.
If WoW changed to that pricing, even several others, I'd actually buy the game and play. I'd expect a new full sized expansion and not something as simple as a new race to play in the old content at least once a year at that price though.
Comments
You are correct in saying you misunderstand me. I'm only refering to the companies that are profitting way more than needed. This includes and is not limited to WoW. Guild Wars has no monthly fee and despite it costing just as much to run that game as the "big time" subsciption fee games such as WoW they still turn a profit of 10s of millions. The greedy companies are turning profits of 10, 50 even 100 times more than this. Its way more than needed to make everyone happy and its just plain ripping off the people who buy into the whole line of bull they feed to get you to pay the fee.
I'm feel sorry for the many people have been brainwashed when it comes to companies and profit and no matter how high the profit is these people will always say their not being greedy. Perhaps they can answer this question. If the monthly fee were say $50 per month for your favorite pay to play and always has been would you still pay it and say its not greedy of them to charge that much? If your answer is yes you think they are greedy for charging that much more per month then why say charging almost 4 times as much as needed now is not greed? I just hope one day more and more will wake up and realize what is going on and stop buying into the rip off. People have come up with so many excuses for the companies to justify it. Its worse than crack addicts coming up with excuses to get money to feed their addiction.
You are correct in saying you misunderstand me. I'm only refering to the companies that are profitting way more than needed. This includes and is not limited to WoW. Guild Wars has no monthly fee and despite it costing just as much to run that game as the "big time" subsciption fee games such as WoW they still turn a profit of 10s of millions. The greedy companies are turning profits of 10, 50 even 100 times more than this. Its way more than needed to make everyone happy and its just plain ripping off the people who buy into the whole line of bull they feed to get you to pay the fee.
I'm feel sorry for the many people have been brainwashed when it comes to companies and profit and no matter how high the profit is these people will always say their not being greedy. Perhaps they can answer this question. If the monthly fee were say $50 per month for your favorite pay to play and always has been would you still pay it and say its not greedy of them to charge that much? If your answer is yes you think they are greedy for charging that much more per month then why say charging almost 4 times as much as needed now is not greed? I just hope one day more and more will wake up and realize what is going on and stop buying into the rip off. People have come up with so many excuses for the companies to justify it. Its worse than crack addicts coming up with excuses to get money to feed their addiction.
Now who's brainwashed? You sound like a overly eager student of Marx's version of unobtainable utopia.
You really dont think the companies are turning out these games for charity do you? As for subscription fee, it's simple economics - suply and demand. Guild Wars would not have enjoyed the success it has if it was subscription based, plain and simple, World of Warcraft on the other hand would not have enjoyed the profit's it's making with subscription as it would have done without a subscription fee.
Here's a very interesting quote about greed from from the movie Wall Street:
“Greed, for lack of a better
Those people coming up with the excuses arent the developoers, it's the regular fans trying to defend something they like and have no objections with, but dont really know how to counter egocentric moralists (or indeed don't know better and are simply assuming).word, is good! Greed is right! Greed works! Greed clarifies, cuts
through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in
all of its forms."
Personally i'm more than happy to pay a subscription fee for a few very simple reasons.
- It (usually) keeps the 'short attention span' kids away
- When you play it is an investment of time and money, thus making the game a longlasting experience
- Since it's both a time and money investment, people are less likely to
As for the money they're making on all of these subscriptions? Good for them! I hope to reap such bountyfull rewards in fair trade myself some day...jeopardize their account by griefing other players (eventhough on the
inside theyre really rotten assholes and are dying to bully others)
Cheers!
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
Lets look at a game like WOW they are making lots of money with their subscriptions, which should more than cover the cost of the servers and support staff.
The original box cost covers the cost of developing the game in the first place.
So will they release the expansion for free or charge for it? The expansion should keep people playing longer so the ongoing subscriptions should cover the development cost - so is it greed that they will charge for it?
Or are the just following the industry model set by games like EQ?
NCsoft is going along way to challenge these so called accepted standard payment models.
Look at this game - we pay for the box, pay a subscription and they are going to release planets as new expansions. Of course I should note here WOW has also released additional content for free.
When companies make huge profits - people object to paying various fees. Look at banking. Here in Australia the major banks make like $4 billion profit a year. So why should I a long term loyal customer pay a $5 account keeping fee every month. I do all my banking online. Sure its only $60 a year, but that $60 means a lot more to me than it does to them. For $60 I could get a pair of new shoes for one of my kids.
If you funds are tight and you have to justify every dollar spent out of your budget, then small fees to companies making big profits does seem like greed. When you have plenty of surplus in your budget thats when you dont complain about paying more money for entertainment.
So in my own case I have a limited budget to spend on gaming a year. That means I buy 4 or 5 games a year. Paying a monthly fee for a game cuts into the other games I can buy. So thats why I am playing guild wars at the moment - no monthly fee.
That said - Guild Wars is great as its hooked me and probably lots more people who wouldnt have otherwise tried a MMORPG into playing them. So now I am looking at what I will play next - and to me I would pay a monthly fee to play TR and also Heroes Journey. It means a couple of games I wont be able to buy - but I will be so busy playing these two I wouldnt have time to play other games anyway.
So all I can say to FonzyBear is - I dont know your financial circumstances, only you can decide if you are prepared to pay the fees particular games are asking for. But as long as enough other people do - companies will keep making games, and charging them. And if you arent prepared to pay the fees - check out NCSofts new games they will be releasing with no monthly payment.
From another point of view - if there wasnt such potential for making large profits - many companies wouldnt be able to find the capital to make these games and their would be a lot less games to choose from.
GREED is why companies EXIST.
Companies exist to make money, not provide us with mmorpgs.
It would seem you understand where I'm coming from more. You do bring up one thing I'd like to point out and that all money brought in offsets the initial cost of developement. The bottom line profit at the end of a year includes all costs. So the 100s of millions and even billions of dollars in profit is after the dev costs, after the maintainance costs, after payroll, etc.
Sure if I was making say 100,000 a year I wouldn't even bat an eye at a $15/month fee but that deosn't change my view of a greedy company. Because greed is not defind by how much I make but by how much the company makes.
Here are some definitions:
Websters: excessive or reprehensible acquisitiveness.
dictionary.com: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.
excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material
wealth) than one needs or deserves 2: reprehensible acquisitiveness;
insatiable desire for wealth (personified as one of the deadly sins) [Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University]
It isn't greed, it's simple supply and demand. The market adjusts itself... they will charge us what ever we are willing to pay. I personally think 50 cents a day for unlimited gameplay is a pretty good deal, and apparently so do enough other people for that to have become the standard pricing.
Companies do not sell their goods and services at the lowest possible price that will allow them to stay in business. The prospect of getting rich, or at least living comfortably off the fruits of your labor, is what drives people in a free market to make something better than their competitors.
I really think it's a little silly, and a lot naive to call it greed. We are willing to pay 50 cents a day, so they are going to charge us 50 cents a day... even if they could have gotten by with 25 cents a day. I am curious how old you are Fonzy, not as a dig... i am just really baffled about your perspective on economics, and I can't help but imagine that you are a teenager. Is that correct?
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
If WoW changed to that pricing, even several others, I'd actually buy the game and play. I'd expect a new full sized expansion and not something as simple as a new race to play in the old content at least once a year at that price though.