›

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register

Quick Links

Atlus Is Suing Fans Who Hosted Private Shin Megami MMO Server Over Copyright | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited September 2022 in News & Features Discussion

imageAtlus Is Suing Fans Who Hosted Private Shin Megami MMO Server Over Copyright | MMORPG.com

Atlus is suing fans who hosted their own private servers of the Japanese company's shuttered MMO, Shin Megami Tensei Imagine Online, citing copyright infringement.

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,489
    edited September 2022
    I agree that this might open the doors to more lawsuits against emulators if successful.
    [Deleted User]
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • SophusVir33SophusVir33 Member UncommonPosts: 72
    If the game was so popular to cost the company money if it was being hosted by an emulator why close it in the first place? Love how people just shut crap down then won't let anyone else run it for free.
    [Deleted User]KidRiskViper482KatagiriLark3m
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,067
    SophusVir33 said:
    If the game was so popular to cost the company money if it was being hosted by an emulator why close it in the first place? Love how people just shut crap down then won't let anyone else run it for free.
    Even aside from the competition argument, they don't want to be responsible for what occurs in an unaffiliated online game bearing their namesake. Someone gets harassed, scammed, etc. in a Shin Megami Tensei MMO, that may reflect on Atlus and the ip regardless of who is running the server.
    [Deleted User]KidRiskDigDuggySovrathMendel
  • CogohiCogohi Member UncommonPosts: 114
    From reddit:



    Gunboot said:

    Please, please do some research before you comment.

    They’re suing a /single/ private server (not ReImagine, a much bigger private server) for copying the original games website and slapping their own copyright onto it, which is NOT okay.

    This isn’t a case of a company abusing the little guy, this is a very understandable legal issue, and the person posting this is making it sound like something else entirely, which is very disingenuous.



    https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/xofi7y/atlus_sues_fans_that_resurrected_the_defunct_shin/
    [Deleted User]Asm0deusDigDuggyVrika
  • DattelisDattelis Member EpicPosts: 1,675
    edited September 2022
    Its pretty interesting that this one is getting pursued but something like Project Ascension (WoW private server) has been running publicly for nearly a decade I want to say. I mainly bring that one up because it has a 'donation' shop (cash shop), sells beta testing and even gets advertisements on Youtube (usually under WoW related content no-less). Maybe other private servers can reach out to those guys and see how they remain untouched (and even turn a profit).
    Scot
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,619
    edited September 2022
    Atlus claims in the court filing that the private server has "caused and will continue to cause irreparable damage to Atlus unless restrained by this Court."

    Might be a little difficult to prove this one as the game was shuttered so how exactly were they being hurt by this?

    Ah this article is misleading by far it seems.
    From the reddit thread:

    Please, please do some research before you comment.

    They’re suing a /single/ private server (not ReImagine, a much bigger private server) for copying the original games website and slapping their own copyright onto it, which is NOT okay.

    This isn’t a case of a company abusing the little guy, this is a very understandable legal issue, and the person posting this is making it sound like something else entirely, which is very disingenuous.
    Also here:


    In any case this will just give Atlus a bad name.  The mmo was dead  since 2016 so who cares.....

    foxgirl

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • TokkenTokken Member EpicPosts: 3,651
    they should have asked for permission first..........

    Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004!  Make PvE GREAT Again!

  • Xses420Xses420 Member UncommonPosts: 6
    Oh this is some bullshit. No one even hosts the game anymore. It's funny I actually downloaded this game a month ago and played it. It has been a while but still fun.
    KidRisk
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,471

    Dattelis said:

    Its pretty interesting that this one is getting pursued but something like Project Ascension (WoW private server) has been running publicly for nearly a decade I want to say. I mainly bring that one up because it has a 'donation' shop (cash shop), sells beta testing and even gets advertisements on Youtube (usually under WoW related content no-less). Maybe other private servers can reach out to those guys and see how they remain untouched (and even turn a profit).



    If you are making money out of a private server, the owners of the IP should be getting their cut, that's only fair.
    Dattelis
  • TalraekkTalraekk Member UncommonPosts: 298
    As per Scot, I agree, money off an ip should go ( even at a split) to the owner of that ip. But (and I didn't fully read this article) if an ip has basically been abandoned, I feel it should be allowed to run, bar various... monetary issues.
    Scot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,471
    edited September 2022
    Talraekk said:
    As per Scot, I agree, money off an ip should go ( even at a split) to the owner of that ip. But (and I didn't fully read this article) if an ip has basically been abandoned, I feel it should be allowed to run, bar various... monetary issues.
    Quite fair if the private server guys had their cut for running costs, updating the cash shop and a bonus for generating money from something the owners thought was now defunct. But they are profiting from the IP so the lion's share should go to the IP's owner.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,079
    Talraekk said:
    As per Scot, I agree, money off an ip should go ( even at a split) to the owner of that ip. But (and I didn't fully read this article) if an ip has basically been abandoned, I feel it should be allowed to run, bar various... monetary issues.
    The IP has not been abandoned, they still sell several single player console titles based on it.

    Also please read what other posters write, it's all explained about 7 posts above yours by @Asm0deus they are only pursuing one specific group

    "They’re suing a /single/ private server (not ReImagine, a much bigger private server) for copying the original games website and slapping their own copyright onto it, which is NOT okay.

    This isn’t a case of a company abusing the little guy, this is a very understandable legal issue, and the person posting this is making it sound like something else entirely, which is very disingenuous."
    ScotKidRisk

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,471
    Kyleran said:
    Talraekk said:
    As per Scot, I agree, money off an ip should go ( even at a split) to the owner of that ip. But (and I didn't fully read this article) if an ip has basically been abandoned, I feel it should be allowed to run, bar various... monetary issues.
    The IP has not been abandoned, they still sell several single player console titles based on it.

    Also please read what other posters write, it's all explained about 7 posts above yours by @Asm0deus they are only pursuing one specific group

    "They’re suing a /single/ private server (not ReImagine, a much bigger private server) for copying the original games website and slapping their own copyright onto it, which is NOT okay.

    This isn’t a case of a company abusing the little guy, this is a very understandable legal issue, and the person posting this is making it sound like something else entirely, which is very disingenuous."
    I did see that, but missed that it was still on consoles, it is a grey area if console titles are still out but no MMORPG. I can't see why if they disentangle the copyright and pay Atlus a due share that would not be fair all round. But the copy right issue was a rather blatant two fingers gesture at Atlus and could understandably have got the companies blood up for a fight.
  • DattelisDattelis Member EpicPosts: 1,675
    edited September 2022
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Talraekk said:
    As per Scot, I agree, money off an ip should go ( even at a split) to the owner of that ip. But (and I didn't fully read this article) if an ip has basically been abandoned, I feel it should be allowed to run, bar various... monetary issues.
    The IP has not been abandoned, they still sell several single player console titles based on it.

    Also please read what other posters write, it's all explained about 7 posts above yours by @Asm0deus they are only pursuing one specific group

    "They’re suing a /single/ private server (not ReImagine, a much bigger private server) for copying the original games website and slapping their own copyright onto it, which is NOT okay.

    This isn’t a case of a company abusing the little guy, this is a very understandable legal issue, and the person posting this is making it sound like something else entirely, which is very disingenuous."
    I did see that, but missed that it was still on consoles, it is a grey area if console titles are still out but no MMORPG. I can't see why if they disentangle the copyright and pay Atlus a due share that would not be fair all round. But the copy right issue was a rather blatant two fingers gesture at Atlus and could understandably have got the companies blood up for a fight.

    I think some people were floating an idea in a thread a few months ago that a 'mmo' library should be established for discontinued mmos, kind of like an electronic museum or something to 'preserve' them if they have been discontinued after a period of time. Would be a nice idea for governments or the like to mandate and just charge a 'service' fee for people to continue playing them, to fund maintenance.
    KyleranScot
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,992
    edited September 2022
    Usually companie just send Cease and desist letter instead of suing.

    If the private server operators have received such letter, and ignored it and still kept their own copyright -claims on website copied from Atlus, then they deserve to be sued.

    On the other hand if Atlus just sued them without first trying to request that they stop, then Atlus are being jerks.
    TheDalaiBombaMendel
     
  • foxgirlfoxgirl Member RarePosts: 485
    According to the corrected misinfo, this article makes it sound like the are just randomly targeting some private server for shits and giggles.

    If the private server is profiting from it, then that's usually what gets emus in trouble. There's thousands of different emus out there, most of them go up and dont have any issues from the copyright holders.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Vrika said:
    Usually companie just send Cease and desist letter instead of suing.

    If the private server operators have received such letter, and ignored it and still kept their own copyright -claims on website copied from Atlus, then they deserve to be sued.

    On the other hand if Atlus just sued them without first trying to request that they stop, then Atlus are being jerks.

    If they are at the suing over copyright infringement stage, they should already be past the Cease and Desist stage.  If they skipped the C&D and went right for the jugular, they are very likely to lose this attempt (by being jerks).



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,972
    Mendel said:
     If they skipped the C&D and went right for the jugular, they are very likely to lose this attempt (by being jerks).



    Is that really how the law works?

    I mean, if the law requires a cease and desist letter BEFORE they actual sue then fine.

    But if the cease and desist letter is just a a courtesy before a law suit then I don't think "being jerks" will really hold up in a court of law. 
    Kyleran
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    edited September 2022
    Sovrath said:
    Mendel said:
     If they skipped the C&D and went right for the jugular, they are very likely to lose this attempt (by being jerks).



    Is that really how the law works?

    I mean, if the law requires a cease and desist letter BEFORE they actual sue then fine.

    But if the cease and desist letter is just a a courtesy before a law suit then I don't think "being jerks" will really hold up in a court of law. 
    It opens up the possibility of a defense centered around being unaware the defendant was actually breaking the law, which does hold sway for many judges, specifically when punitive damages are being claimed.

    In this instance, since they slapped a copyright alongside an existing copyright, they'll have a hard time proving they didn't realize they were trying to use copyrighted work.

    That's why they targeted this specific server, imo.  The existence of the site mimicking the original game site, down to a copyright notice added, provides evidence the defendants knew what copyright was, knew the content was copyrighted, but ignored it.
    Kyleran
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Sovrath said:
    Mendel said:
     If they skipped the C&D and went right for the jugular, they are very likely to lose this attempt (by being jerks).



    Is that really how the law works?

    I mean, if the law requires a cease and desist letter BEFORE they actual sue then fine.

    But if the cease and desist letter is just a a courtesy before a law suit then I don't think "being jerks" will really hold up in a court of law. 

    I really don't know, @Sovrath; copyright law can be pretty weird.  It will probably be up to the judge *and* the exact claims the suit makes.  If the judge decides that the plaintiff (Atlus) needed to pursue a C&D order before the suit, the suit could be dismissed.  It's a matter of the individual judge's interpretation.  As far as I know, there isn't a standard one-size-fits-all precedent.

    To me, the addition of another name over Atlus' copyright mark seems a type of plagiarism, and probably wouldn't need a C&D to take action on those lines.  If Atlus just wants to close an unlicensed emulator (i.e., protect their IP), then a C&D might be necessary.  But that's just my non-legal opinion.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,992
    edited September 2022
    Sovrath said:
    Mendel said:
     If they skipped the C&D and went right for the jugular, they are very likely to lose this attempt (by being jerks).



    Is that really how the law works?

    I mean, if the law requires a cease and desist letter BEFORE they actual sue then fine.

    But if the cease and desist letter is just a a courtesy before a law suit then I don't think "being jerks" will really hold up in a court of law. 
    Cease and Desist letters aren't normally needed. Afaik their only legal effect is that after receiving the letter the recipient can't claim he didn't know about your copyright. But in situation like this it won't matter since private server admins knew about the copyright anyway.

    There's one situation where you need a cease and desist letter or similar: If you want to sue internet host (like Google) for stuff that third party has placed on servers hosted by them. That requirement is done one the logic that services that host content posted by third party can't realistically check everything for copyright.
    TheDalaiBombaMendel
     
  • Jaguaratron1Jaguaratron1 Member UncommonPosts: 299
    This seems like a poor approach, I mean if they own the copyright and IP and dont want these servers live then fair enough but claiming that the private server has "caused and will continue to cause irreparable damage to Atlus unless restrained by this Court." is farcical.

    I dont think this will have a positive effect for them long term.
  • WBadgerWBadger Member RarePosts: 381
    Jaguaratron1 said:
    This seems like a poor approach, I mean if they own the copyright and IP and dont want these servers live then fair enough but claiming that the private server has "caused and will continue to cause irreparable damage to Atlus unless restrained by this Court." is farcical.

    I dont think this will have a positive effect for them long term.
    I mean, they aren't wrong though.  The people they are suing didn't just open a private server.  They bought the old official domain, routed it to their own page that was a 1 to 1 copy of the original SMT website and then slapped their name into the copyright because they thought they could.  It's not going to have a positive effect longterm but it's also not going to have a negative effect like their copyright gets pulled into question because rando asshats on the internet tried to co-opt the copyright for their own.  Because the private server made it seemed like it was an official endeavor from Atlus by straight up ripping the official page, domain, and copyright; any bad juju from their own activities could go back to Atlus because of it.
    KyleranMendel
Sign In or Register to comment.