It really is funny that our society holds the act of making life to be less age-appropriate viewing than the act of taking life. Just a philosophic observation.
Violence, often times comical and overdone, doesn't generally hold the same weight as sex, especially in an MMO space. Violent games or games rated as mature are one thing. Comical violence or violence that you'd see in an MMO, which is basically whack something with a weapon until it collapses due to numbers popping up over its head (no blood, etc) isn't quite as bad as gratuitous sex. Especially since sex in an MMO space (Erp, etc) often time attracts creeps, and it allows them to seek out and find/manipulate vulnerable people, or kids.
Yeah, sex is a much more powerful force in the psyche, in relationship to media. Kids have a hard time dealing with sexual content and can be affected by it since they are still dealing with new emotions and stimuli.
System said: What Place (If Any) Should Sex Have in MMORPGs?
A private place. Meaning something like a private in-game residence of some person, away from public view. As a person who actually participated in various eRP activities in various games (out of curiosity) - these activities should absolutely be allowed to exist (because plenty of adults enjoy these), but not in public view in any of public areas (because many other adults do not enjoy seeing those activities for various reasons).
As for simple-minded idiots who say "...but think of kids!" - underaged persons should not be playing any video games (including MMORPGs) without their parent or legal guardian's supervision, and adult persons should not be denied the right to enjoy more adult-oriented activities together with other adults (again, in privacy of their in-game residences) just because few parents/legal guardians are too lazy to properly monitor what their children are doing online.
A good analogy would be Discord: there are plenty of adult-oriented private servers hosted by Discord, where adults share NSFW material and participate in adult-oriented conversations, but all of that is happening in privacy of private servers, something you won't see unless you manually join such private server, and you're always free to use other Discord servers without any NSFW material or any adult-oriented conversations in them. And while it is possible for underaged persons to join such adult-oriented private Discord servers - it is still not a responsibility of Discord to prevent that from happening (this is a 100% responsibility of parents and legal guardians of those underage persons, they are the ones who must monitor their children's online activities) and Discord should NEVER ban all NSFW material and all adult-oriented conversations from all private Discord servers.
I disagree @user298 f a game is rated "T" then i think kids should be allowed to play it and it is expected that kids will play it. As for parents should be supervising at all times... it sounds like you don't have any kids. You can't supervise your kid at all times while they are doing much of anything. Its not fair to the parent and its not fair to kid. The thing is as a parent you should teach your kid what to do and what not to do online with strangers and supervise here and there to make sure they are following the rules.
After that you kind of have to hop they listen and the creeps dont come a calling
A game with explicit sex should never get a T rating. At minimum, it's M for mature if there are some mitigating factors, but you're probably looking at an AO rating. Hardly any games get rated Adults Only because most of the games that would merit such a rating don't bother getting rated.
Parents shouldn't be expected to track down every little thing in a game to see if it's safe for their kids. But they should be expected to realize that if a game is rated AO and says that it has explicit sex, then it has explicit sex, so act accordingly.
Perhaps the bigger concern from a ratings perspective is that a game that should be rated AO doesn't get a rating at all to warn parents about it.
I was more responding to him saying that no kids should ever play a MMORPG which I disagree with. However, I am getting old enough now that I am starting to see Teenagers as kids
Now turn back the clock to when you were a teenager. What did you think about then and how would you have felt being referred to as a kid?
System said: What Place (If Any) Should Sex Have in MMORPGs?
A private place. Meaning something like a private in-game residence of some person, away from public view. As a person who actually participated in various eRP activities in various games (out of curiosity) - these activities should absolutely be allowed to exist (because plenty of adults enjoy these), but not in public view in any of public areas (because many other adults do not enjoy seeing those activities for various reasons).
As for simple-minded idiots who say "...but think of kids!" - underaged persons should not be playing any video games (including MMORPGs) without their parent or legal guardian's supervision, and adult persons should not be denied the right to enjoy more adult-oriented activities together with other adults (again, in privacy of their in-game residences) just because few parents/legal guardians are too lazy to properly monitor what their children are doing online.
A good analogy would be Discord: there are plenty of adult-oriented private servers hosted by Discord, where adults share NSFW material and participate in adult-oriented conversations, but all of that is happening in privacy of private servers, something you won't see unless you manually join such private server, and you're always free to use other Discord servers without any NSFW material or any adult-oriented conversations in them. And while it is possible for underaged persons to join such adult-oriented private Discord servers - it is still not a responsibility of Discord to prevent that from happening (this is a 100% responsibility of parents and legal guardians of those underage persons, they are the ones who must monitor their children's online activities) and Discord should NEVER ban all NSFW material and all adult-oriented conversations from all private Discord servers.
I disagree @user298 f a game is rated "T" then i think kids should be allowed to play it and it is expected that kids will play it. As for parents should be supervising at all times... it sounds like you don't have any kids. You can't supervise your kid at all times while they are doing much of anything. Its not fair to the parent and its not fair to kid. The thing is as a parent you should teach your kid what to do and what not to do online with strangers and supervise here and there to make sure they are following the rules.
After that you kind of have to hop they listen and the creeps dont come a calling
A game with explicit sex should never get a T rating. At minimum, it's M for mature if there are some mitigating factors, but you're probably looking at an AO rating. Hardly any games get rated Adults Only because most of the games that would merit such a rating don't bother getting rated.
Parents shouldn't be expected to track down every little thing in a game to see if it's safe for their kids. But they should be expected to realize that if a game is rated AO and says that it has explicit sex, then it has explicit sex, so act accordingly.
Perhaps the bigger concern from a ratings perspective is that a game that should be rated AO doesn't get a rating at all to warn parents about it.
I was more responding to him saying that no kids should ever play a MMORPG which I disagree with. However, I am getting old enough now that I am starting to see Teenagers as kids
Now turn back the clock to when you were a teenager. What did you think about then and how would you have felt being referred to as a kid?
oh shit that takes me back... I remember watching that show as the episodes dropped. Wonder if it still holds up. I didn't get to play MMOs as a kid so this was my jam. A show where I could imagine making friends like they did
Always amazed about how willing we are to accept blood spatter, ripping up someones body and reveling in the guts spilling out, decapitations. Etc.
But sex, that’s so dangerous..think about the kids!
I’m more worried my kids will think it’s OK to blow someones head off compared to seeing an erect penis in a game. In Germany they have more rules in place for blood and gore than sex - and i do think they’re correct.
I dislike it. If you're a parent with kids, your kids will watch you play games. Things can get very awkward if games are too explicit. I don't mind when a game is based off of being inappropriate, like Grand Theft Auto. I can just avoid those. It's when it's sneaky and mostly appropriate. I've been playing a mobile game where you get extra currency for watching ads, and the adds are all for crazily sexualized little girls in games. That is extremely disturbing to me. I have no problem with x rated games aimed at an adult audience. I have so much problem with games aimed at everyone with mostly naked hyper-sexualized little girls.
A friend was telling my how over half of his parenting time is watching his 8-year-old using her computer. I just think of how we were brought up and that is crazy, my parents did not have to be with me when I watched the TV or read a book. That's how much the internet has changed things.
sex in video games is for people who cant get any in real life, I play games to relax from everyday life, I want to do things in a game I cant do in real life/
But if someone makes a game with sex, who am I to complain? it just wont get my interest
The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.
If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.
Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.
If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.
Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
I don't know how old you are, I'm 69. I agree though, the changes have been astronomical. It's not just due to tech and economics, in my opinion. I'm speaking a little bit in generalities here. The parents, advertising execs, corporate managers, etc., lived through the Great Depression and WWII. They had a different way about them. They had class, ethics, morals, etc., due to those experiences. Surprisingly, outside of the extremes (which many today don't even see as extremes), they were much more tolerant. "Keep your nose out of other people's business" was a common saying back then (again, outside of the extremes).
The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.
If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.
Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
If you notice the trend, the west (Europe, US)is the democracy, and the east (Russia, China) is the dictatorship in which leaders shut down in violence any opposition.
Vulgarity? This is symptomatic of freedom(I mean some levels of freedom that others do not enjoy). I happily enjoy it, it makes me laugh.
However, your comment - which is downgrading entire cultures - is straight down rude and insulting. That is the worst type of "vulgarity".
I guess this article is inspired by the fact that many films/shows elude to the use of drugs/alcohol and/or have vulgar language/violent behavior and even some mild nudity. All those fit the category of an American R rating, but full on sex is what separates an American R from an American X rating. I dont really know of any theater in the US that supports X rated films, so I dont really feel games should be different. Eastern games already do things like mild nudity which the western market tends to sensor quite heavily (especially since many of them have minor-looking characters in similar outfits and such), but that's mainly because those cultures support it. To put it simply, I dont think a lot of things we enjoy privately should be shared publicly, sex included.
I would prefer that explicit sex scenes were not shown in movies, shows, or games (only implied, if that). Viewing sexual content can contribute to pornography/sex addiction, warped views of sex, and maybe even perversions (are predators born or made?). I don't think violent content has a similar effect. Sexual/pornographic content seems like more of a drug than violent content and we need to be more careful with it.
The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.
If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.
Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
I don't know how old you are, I'm 69. I agree though, the changes have been astronomical. It's not just due to tech and economics, in my opinion. I'm speaking a little bit in generalities here. The parents, advertising execs, corporate managers, etc., lived through the Great Depression and WWII. They had a different way about them. They had class, ethics, morals, etc., due to those experiences. Surprisingly, outside of the extremes (which many today don't even see as extremes), they were much more tolerant. "Keep your nose out of other people's business" was a common saying back then (again, outside of the extremes).
When we have to look to something as extreme as the far east's use of "preteen" avatars in games to say the West is a better society, well that shows we don't exactly deserve a prize.
Sex/Nudity is in games for one reason and one reason only; Sales....Game companies realize the vast majority of their customers are young males and this is what caters to that.
I like having games that are more adult oriented but then I am biased that I am an adult, they just need to be aimed towards adults and not kids.
Not all games need to be be for 13 and up.
That said I see this often come up yet we have a plethora of asian games with lolis that are borderline kiddie porn yet that's what okay cause "lore" and differences of culture?
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.
If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.
Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
That's a pretty sheltered outlook you got going on there. I'm not talking about content that would get anywhere near the silver screen, except for the extreme violence which is pretty commonly shown. There is a whole bunch going on outside of mainstream entertainment, some of it pretty far outside.
The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.
If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.
Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
I don't know how old you are, I'm 69. I agree though, the changes have been astronomical. It's not just due to tech and economics, in my opinion. I'm speaking a little bit in generalities here. The parents, advertising execs, corporate managers, etc., lived through the Great Depression and WWII. They had a different way about them. They had class, ethics, morals, etc., due to those experiences. Surprisingly, outside of the extremes (which many today don't even see as extremes), they were much more tolerant. "Keep your nose out of other people's business" was a common saying back then (again, outside of the extremes).
When we have to look to something as extreme as the far east's use of "preteen" avatars in games to say the West is a better society, well that shows we don't exactly deserve a prize.
Western society isn't better. It is what we in the West are accustomed to and judge things by. That in itself shows we deserve no prize. It is an attitude of superiority that has no foundation other than our own conceit.
The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.
If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.
Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
I don't know how old you are, I'm 69. I agree though, the changes have been astronomical. It's not just due to tech and economics, in my opinion. I'm speaking a little bit in generalities here. The parents, advertising execs, corporate managers, etc., lived through the Great Depression and WWII. They had a different way about them. They had class, ethics, morals, etc., due to those experiences. Surprisingly, outside of the extremes (which many today don't even see as extremes), they were much more tolerant. "Keep your nose out of other people's business" was a common saying back then (again, outside of the extremes).
When we have to look to something as extreme as the far east's use of "preteen" avatars in games to say the West is a better society, well that shows we don't exactly deserve a prize.
Western society isn't better. It is what we in the West are accustomed to and judge things by. That in itself shows we deserve no prize. It is an attitude of superiority that has no foundation other than our own conceit.
I think that could be said for any society, take a holiday around the world and see if you can find any societies which think they are inferior. It is quite natural we see ourselves as he best, everyone does just that.
The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.
If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.
Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
I don't know how old you are, I'm 69. I agree though, the changes have been astronomical. It's not just due to tech and economics, in my opinion. I'm speaking a little bit in generalities here. The parents, advertising execs, corporate managers, etc., lived through the Great Depression and WWII. They had a different way about them. They had class, ethics, morals, etc., due to those experiences. Surprisingly, outside of the extremes (which many today don't even see as extremes), they were much more tolerant. "Keep your nose out of other people's business" was a common saying back then (again, outside of the extremes).
When we have to look to something as extreme as the far east's use of "preteen" avatars in games to say the West is a better society, well that shows we don't exactly deserve a prize.
Western society isn't better. It is what we in the West are accustomed to and judge things by. That in itself shows we deserve no prize. It is an attitude of superiority that has no foundation other than our own conceit.
I think that could be said for any society, take a holiday around the world and see if you can find any societies which think they are inferior. It is quite natural we see ourselves as he best, everyone does just that.
I don't necessarily think that's the case. I think these days it's easier to admire other cultures and societies.
But there are a lot of differences, not just from country to country, but even in certain parts of the same country. The US is way crazy in what someone in california would consider common place or normal daily life compared to someone in.. like.. nebraska.
But yeah, the kinds of things that people in Japan find quite common might be extremely taboo in other places... but there are still parts of each society that other people might admire. I think these days you'd have to be really shortsighted and childish to expect that one society is the right or best way. It's all part of culture that we conform to.
Comments
Once upon a time....
But sex, that’s so dangerous..think about the kids!
I’m more worried my kids will think it’s OK to blow someones head off compared to seeing an erect penis in a game. In Germany they have more rules in place for blood and gore than sex - and i do think they’re correct.
If it furthers a story arc, it would be ok to mention a love interest but I dont see a need to seeing pixel people doing the pixel nasty
But if someone makes a game with sex, who am I to complain? it just wont get my interest
Godz of War I call Thee
Compared to not being vulgar.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
Load of bullcrap.
The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
I agree though, the changes have been astronomical.
It's not just due to tech and economics, in my opinion.
I'm speaking a little bit in generalities here.
The parents, advertising execs, corporate managers, etc., lived through the Great Depression and WWII. They had a different way about them. They had class, ethics, morals, etc., due to those experiences.
Surprisingly, outside of the extremes (which many today don't even see as extremes), they were much more tolerant.
"Keep your nose out of other people's business" was a common saying back then (again, outside of the extremes).
Once upon a time....
LOL I thought the same thing!
If you notice the trend, the west (Europe, US)is the democracy, and the east (Russia, China) is the dictatorship in which leaders shut down in violence any opposition.
Not all games need to be be for 13 and up.
That said I see this often come up yet we have a plethora of asian games with lolis that are borderline kiddie porn yet that's what okay cause "lore" and differences of culture?
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
That's a pretty sheltered outlook you got going on there. I'm not talking about content that would get anywhere near the silver screen, except for the extreme violence which is pretty commonly shown. There is a whole bunch going on outside of mainstream entertainment, some of it pretty far outside.
Western society isn't better. It is what we in the West are accustomed to and judge things by. That in itself shows we deserve no prize. It is an attitude of superiority that has no foundation other than our own conceit.
But there are a lot of differences, not just from country to country, but even in certain parts of the same country. The US is way crazy in what someone in california would consider common place or normal daily life compared to someone in.. like.. nebraska.
But yeah, the kinds of things that people in Japan find quite common might be extremely taboo in other places... but there are still parts of each society that other people might admire. I think these days you'd have to be really shortsighted and childish to expect that one society is the right or best way. It's all part of culture that we conform to.