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What Place (If Any) Should Sex Have in MMORPGs? | One Good Roll | MMORPG.com

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,931
    edited November 2022
    kitarad said:
    Ratings without parent's supervision isn't going to keep children away from these games.  Might not be a good idea to have sex in these games where children might play them especially when you read about the predators targeting vulnerable children who are not supervised.

    We can all talk about a parent's obligation and duties but we know what really happens and how we ourselves grew up getting access to books, comics and magazines we were not supposed to look at. So do you think the children nowadays are any different. I'd rather not give another avenue for a pedophile to trap a new prey.
    It doesn't matter as the internet is "the internet" and that gives massive possibilities for predators.

    So the only way to insure children are safe is to get rid of the internet. Which is not going to happen.

    The only real solution is to have parents exercise their obligations and duties  and put things in perspective for their children.


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  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,618
    edited November 2022
    Sovrath said:
    kitarad said:
    Ratings without parent's supervision isn't going to keep children away from these games.  Might not be a good idea to have sex in these games where children might play them especially when you read about the predators targeting vulnerable children who are not supervised.

    We can all talk about a parent's obligation and duties but we know what really happens and how we ourselves grew up getting access to books, comics and magazines we were not supposed to look at. So do you think the children nowadays are any different. I'd rather not give another avenue for a pedophile to trap a new prey.
    It doesn't matter as the internet is "the internet" and that gives massive possibilities for predators.

    So the only way to insure children are safe is to get rid of the internet. Which is not going to happen.

    The only real solution is to have parents exercise their obligations and duties  and put things in perspective for their children.



    Just to add in as a father myself I feel that education is also key and I don't mean from school but from us the parents.  You want your kids to have a set of values you need to instill that yourself.

    If your kid has access to a phone or internet etc you need to educate them about the ins and outs and the dangers and even keep en eye on them.

    Gotta teach em the stranger/danger yell but for internet etc etc.
    Kyleran

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  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Talk about bringing more freaks into mmo's. I can't stand all the marriage crap that already happens in some games. They need to get rid of all that stuff.
    Kyleran
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited November 2022
    A lot of you guys seem to have gone off on a tangent of romance and sex in all types of games when this article was very specifically asking about MMORPGs.

    I have zero problems with it on single-player games when it fits the story and is not some X-rated POS just there for the express purpose of titillating oversexed teenage wankers.

    The romance was done well in a lot of single-player games like the Dragon Age series, Mass Effect games, the Witcher games, and Cyberpunk 2077 - some with brief sex cut scenes and some without. I'm sure there are more where it was well done.

    I played those and enjoyed the romance and sex scenes as part of the general game experience.

    My problem with it is just the inclusion of it in multiplayer games because of the wide range of players sharing a world space In those games. Multiplayer games have a lot of decent people playing but also a sizable portion of creeps and griefers.

    I just don't want the asshats to have another tool to harass, grief, and abuse in a shared world, even if it's in a "consensual" private instance only since those would definitely be used by pedos.

    This has nothing to do with my attitude toward romance and sexuality in interactive media at all. Multiplayer is just different and can be turned into even bigger cesspools than they already are if you give the creeps and asshats more tools to do it with.
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  • NeoyoshiNeoyoshi Member RarePosts: 1,489
    edited November 2022

    Angrakhan said:

    As online games attempt to focus on novel experiences, what role, if any should sex have in MMORPGs?




    None. Why? Kids and sexual predators. Put the two together in an online world with anonymity and you're asking for trouble. Add a game that allows actual depiction of sex, and the "grooming" gets that much easier for the predator.



    While we're at it stop sexualizing children in MMOs. No one is fooled by saying they're some "ancient race that ages slowly". Bullshit. You're creating an online playground for pedophiles. Stop.



    You know, i get what you are trying to say; but a sexual predator doesn't need a video game to be a sexual predator.

    People who use video games and other art mediums as a framing device for the faults of actual human beings are just one false claim away from being Oprah from the 1990's; or Oprah today.


    --------------------------------On-topic---------------------------------------------

    On-topic: Adult video game content can be done well if the people creating it care enough to do it well; The Witcher series i think did a decent job with it- but the Baldurs Gate series is without question the ruler of knowing how to install romance and adult themes into a video game setting.

    It's something that can only really be done well in a story-driven environment; so i can't see something like "sex" being done tastefully in a online mmorpg setting; it just doesn't have the narrative support for it.

    Games like Second Life have pretty much proven this model as just a gateway to amp'ing up the smut; and it's user-based, so it really falls into acts of responsibility versus "what can we get away with?"

    So yes, more relationship options in a video game are a great thing to have, i just don't see how it could work in a mmorpg setting when user-freedom is allowed to take the wheel; but I think it does have a place- I just don't see the functionality in the trees. (did that analogy make sense? xD )

    Final Fantasy XIV and World of Warcraft RP is probably (realistically) the closest people will ever get to playing out a romantic fantasy in a mmorpg setting.



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    edited November 2022
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  • OldKingLogOldKingLog Member RarePosts: 601
    Iselin said:
    A lot of you guys seem to have gone off on a tangent of romance and sex in all types of games when this article was very specifically asking about MMORPGs.

    I have zero problems with it on single-player games when it fits the story and is not some X-rated POS just there for the express purpose of titillating oversexed teenage wankers.

    The romance was done well in a lot of single-player games like the Dragon Age series, Mass Effect games, the Witcher games, and Cyberpunk 2077 - some with brief sex cut scenes and some without. I'm sure there are more where it was well done.

    I played those and enjoyed the romance and sex scenes as part of the general game experience.

    My problem with it is just the inclusion of it in multiplayer games because of the wide range of players sharing a world space In those games. Multiplayer games have a lot of decent people playing but also a sizable portion of creeps and griefers.

    I just don't want the asshats to have another tool to harass, grief, and abuse in a shared world, even if it's in a "consensual" private instance only since those would definitely be used by pedos.

    This has nothing to do with my attitude toward romance and sexuality in interactive media at all. Multiplayer is just different and can be turned into even bigger cesspools than they already are if you give the creeps and asshats more tools to do it with.

    Here's the thing, this question has already been answered years ago by an obscure online RPG called Sociolotron. It showed hands down just how "Lord of the Flies" this kind of content in gaming can get. I'd say sexual content has zero place in MMORPGs for the exact same reasons Iselin states.
    KyleranTheocritus
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,056
    eoloe said:
    kitarad said:



    So unless, one is constantly spying on his child (even in the middle school bathroom) or depriving him/her from her phone/computer....... then lol.


    Unless?  I did a better job than the NSA on keeping tabs on my children's personal lives and computer usage.

    From top to bottom searches of their rooms, clothing, bookbags, my garage (yes, I figured they'd try to hide stuff in there, I did when I was young), calling parents before and during sleepovers, even when it was at my house :) to steaming open snail mail, monitoring all computer usage, which were always kept in the living room, never the bedroom of course.

    Smart phones though, didn't have those to deal with fortunately. Probably would have just beaten them into plowshares or something.

     B) 


    Scot

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  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,847
    This is an interesting subject to discuss, I've been thinking about it over the last few days. Sex in MMORPGs?


    My general gut feeling is "keep it the hell away from MMOs!". Sex is such an intimate, personal subject that trying to incorporate it into a massively multiplayer game is a recipe for disaster. Maybe it can be done right, but why waste the effort?

    That said, I've sort of broken down the subject into four areas.


    1) Sex that sells

    I can be as much of a perv as the next man. I like looking at naked women. If you took two identical films, but one of them showed me the main womans boobs and the other didn't, I'd rather watch the one with the boobs.

    So, I'm fine using sex to sell products. It's not really using sex though, it's using nudity to sell products. The main thing here is that the nudity needs to either be normalised (i.e. people are nude, but you don't make a big deal of it) or the nudity needs to be an appreciation of beauty. If the nudity is there to turn me on, then it's slipped into porn territory and has crossed a line.



    2) Sex that drives emotion in a story

    Sex in films is rarely about the sex itself. You don't get to see everything, it has been edited to not take too long (it'd be a weird film if it had an hour long sex scene!). Sex in films is rarely anything like sex in real life. However, it is used to elicit emotions in the audience. Its often used to express love between two characters, sometimes to express pain and terror in the case of rape, sometimes it expresses awkwardness or comedy.

    This sort of sex exists in games like The Witcher. It's not interactive, it's purely a driver of story designed to increase empathy. I'm fine with this style of sex in games.....

    ......except that I think games are terrible for telling stories, in which case including this sort of sex in games feels redundant to me.



    3) Sex as interactive porn

    I'm fine with these sorts of games existing. I dont really understand why you'd want to spend money on a porn game when u can watch normal porn for free, but whatever.

    However, interactive porn in a massively multiplayer environment? Doesn't seem like a good idea. First, there's not really a need to include 250+ players in an orgy, so why would u make it massively multiplayer? then there's all the issues with predators, children etc. Not to mention that interactive porn seems like it would be even further away from reality than regular porn, and so it'd be reinforcing bad attitudes.

    Keep interactive porn single player, maybe coop. Or better yet, just watch porn like a normal person.



    4) Sex as educational gameplay

    I am firmly in Raph Koster's camp of "games are supposed to be educational". I truly belive that the evolutionary purpose of games is to teach us stuff, and that all games do indeed teach us things. It's just the lessons they teach us are usually worthless, especially these days.

    So, I can see a scenario where a game included sex as a genuine gameplay option, and the gameplay could teach us useful things.

    For example, you could make a game where sex is only possible if you've gone through a politically / ethically correct method of obtaining consent (as a way to teach kids about consent). Or, if you allowed rape, you could make it so if you ever raped anyone, you got permadeathed. You could have gameplay mechanics designed to teach you how to have enjoyable / good sex. Perhaps, as part of the story, your own character could get raped, and this could be a way to teach us about the horrific consequences?

    I have no idea what those sorts of games would look like, but I see no problem with games trying to teach us something about sex. Trying to maintain that line between gameplay and just porn would be difficult too.
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  • SplattrSplattr Member RarePosts: 577
    Kyleran said:
    eoloe said:
    kitarad said:



    So unless, one is constantly spying on his child (even in the middle school bathroom) or depriving him/her from her phone/computer....... then lol.


    Unless?  I did a better job than the NSA on keeping tabs on my children's personal lives and computer usage.

    From top to bottom searches of their rooms, clothing, bookbags, my garage (yes, I figured they'd try to hide stuff in there, I did when I was young), calling parents before and during sleepovers, even when it was at my house :) to steaming open snail mail, monitoring all computer usage, which were always kept in the living room, never the bedroom of course.

    Smart phones though, didn't have those to deal with fortunately. Probably would have just beaten them into plowshares or something.

     B) 


    Unless your kids were in eyesight 100% of the time, then you didn't do as good a job as you think you did. Every parent thinks they are smarter than their kids, have kept them safe from harm, and otherwise thought they caught everything their kid did. But that's just a story we tell ourselves. Teenagers (and younger) are devious, resourceful, have memorized guard paths, tested all the locks, and found all the holes in the security camera coverage. They have stashes in places you never knew existed, and utilize "safe zones" like school, church, and family gatherings to lull you into a sense of security. And most importantly, they only need a minute or two to do the dirty deeds we think we can keep from them.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,582
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    Spiider said:




    Spiider said:


    The vulgarity of the west never ceases to amaze me.






    If you think that's amazing check out the vulgarity of the east. You'll find the west quite tame in comparison, especially when it comes to North America.



    Unless you're talking about vulgar graphic violence, in which case we are top tier competitors.



    Load of bullcrap.
    The west = Hollywood including Japan and Korea and wherever Hollywood is prevalent culture. I grew up in the west and it has changed over the last 50 years massively. Now vulgarity is celebrated while everything else takes the back seat.
    I don't know how old you are, I'm 69. 
    I agree though, the changes have been astronomical. 
    It's not just due to tech and economics, in my opinion.
    I'm speaking a little bit in generalities here.
    The parents, advertising execs, corporate managers, etc., lived through the Great Depression and WWII. They had a different way about them. They had class, ethics, morals, etc., due to those experiences. 
    Surprisingly, outside of the extremes (which many today don't even see as extremes), they were much more tolerant. 
    "Keep your nose out of other people's business" was a common saying back then (again, outside of the extremes). 

    When we have to look to something as extreme as the far east's use of "preteen" avatars in games to say the West is a better society, well that shows we don't exactly deserve a prize.

    Western society isn't better. It is what we in the West are accustomed to and judge things by. That in itself shows we deserve no prize. It is an attitude of superiority that has no foundation other than our own conceit.
     I think that could be said for any society, take a holiday around the world and see if you can find any societies which think they are inferior. It is quite natural we see ourselves as he best, everyone does just that.
    I don't necessarily think that's the case. I think these days it's easier to admire other cultures and societies. 

    But there are a lot of differences, not just from country to country, but even in certain parts of the same country. The US is way crazy in what someone in california would consider common place or normal daily life compared to someone in.. like.. nebraska. 

    But yeah, the kinds of things that people in Japan find quite common might be extremely taboo in other places... but there are still parts of each society that other people might admire.  I think these days you'd have to be really shortsighted and childish to expect that one society is the right or best way. It's all part of culture that we conform to. 
    Call me short-sighted then, I root for the "home" team.


    Also, I don't suffer from this strange sense of self loathing many do today.


    A party of one isn't much of team.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,077
    edited November 2022
    There is a difference between "sex" and "sexualization"; the latter is what you see on Sports Illustrated swimsuit editions.

    Having offspring is an interesting concept in videogames; titles like "Massive Chalice" make this central to gameplay.  I think there probably is some room for MMORPGs to... grow... in this regard.

    It certainly seems like a taboo subject, especially considering how much violence is already on the table.  The former is much more an aspect of everyday human existence.  Obviously the audience must be considered, but that's why there exists a ratings board.

    As mentioned, the inclusion of sex as something to further gameplay is very different from sex to titillate.

    All right, it's late... enough of this conversation, for me.
    maskedweasel

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,582
    Scot said:
    cheyane said:
    I agree with @Sovrath in that I am against people using any of the emotes  or other means to project sexual intentions on random players. Whatever they do behind some closed inn doors in a game isn't any of my business. 

    Rated appropriately of course.
    Cheyane, your avatar is definitely not "U" ("G" in the US), I am still working out whether your appropriate rating would be "15" (PG 13 or higher in US). ;)

    The DC characters Starfire and Power Girl have had some pretty expressive and not too expansive costumes in the comics over the years. I have no idea if they are even rated. I don't see cheyane's costume having any more trouble than theirs.
    Scot
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,582
    Hariken said:
    Talk about bringing more freaks into mmo's. I can't stand all the marriage crap that already happens in some games. They need to get rid of all that stuff.

    Some people actually like to role-play in MMORPGs. They won't be getting rid of anything so harmless as character marriage.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 5,094
    System said:

    It's no secret that sex sells, 

    That was true in the 1960s, when the general world was very prude and there was a "sexual revolution".

    It hasnt been true ever since. Quite on the contrary, advertisement which has sexualization in it is usually contraproductive.

    People who want explicit sexual content in their games are a small minority. To most people thats just dumb and/or offensive and certainly kills the mood of the game.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    Iselin said:

    I have zero problems with it on single-player games when it fits the story and is not some X-rated POS just there for the express purpose of titillating oversexed teenage wankers.

    Those were the good old days. You are making me all nostalgic now. :)
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    Kyleran said:
    eoloe said:
    kitarad said:



    So unless, one is constantly spying on his child (even in the middle school bathroom) or depriving him/her from her phone/computer....... then lol.


    Unless?  I did a better job than the NSA on keeping tabs on my children's personal lives and computer usage.

    From top to bottom searches of their rooms, clothing, bookbags, my garage (yes, I figured they'd try to hide stuff in there, I did when I was young), calling parents before and during sleepovers, even when it was at my house :) to steaming open snail mail, monitoring all computer usage, which were always kept in the living room, never the bedroom of course.

    Smart phones though, didn't have those to deal with fortunately. Probably would have just beaten them into plowshares or something.

     B) 


    That’s pretty hardcore.  

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,052
    Splattr said:
    Kyleran said:
    eoloe said:
    kitarad said:



    So unless, one is constantly spying on his child (even in the middle school bathroom) or depriving him/her from her phone/computer....... then lol.


    Unless?  I did a better job than the NSA on keeping tabs on my children's personal lives and computer usage.

    From top to bottom searches of their rooms, clothing, bookbags, my garage (yes, I figured they'd try to hide stuff in there, I did when I was young), calling parents before and during sleepovers, even when it was at my house :) to steaming open snail mail, monitoring all computer usage, which were always kept in the living room, never the bedroom of course.

    Smart phones though, didn't have those to deal with fortunately. Probably would have just beaten them into plowshares or something.

     B) 


    Unless your kids were in eyesight 100% of the time, then you didn't do as good a job as you think you did. Every parent thinks they are smarter than their kids, have kept them safe from harm, and otherwise thought they caught everything their kid did. But that's just a story we tell ourselves. Teenagers (and younger) are devious, resourceful, have memorized guard paths, tested all the locks, and found all the holes in the security camera coverage. They have stashes in places you never knew existed, and utilize "safe zones" like school, church, and family gatherings to lull you into a sense of security. And most importantly, they only need a minute or two to do the dirty deeds we think we can keep from them.
    Yup, kids will mercilessly f*ck with you, they learned that from all the sex in MMORPGs.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    System said:

    It's no secret that sex sells, 

    That was true in the 1960s, when the general world was very prude and there was a "sexual revolution".

    It hasnt been true ever since. Quite on the contrary, advertisement which has sexualization in it is usually contraproductive.

    People who want explicit sexual content in their games are a small minority. To most people thats just dumb and/or offensive and certainly kills the mood of the game.

    I would probably disagree with that, seeing as how right now I"m looking at an ad on this site of a chick wearing metal undergarments, holding a sword and shield. 

    Games seem like they sexualize a lot within games to entice players to play. 

    In the very same ad on this site theres a dude in full plate armor. Why is the girl only in lingerie? 

    We see that pretty much everywhere in ads and shows and movies. 
    SovrathKyleranPhaserlight



  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,931
    System said:

    It's no secret that sex sells, 

    That was true in the 1960s, when the general world was very prude and there was a "sexual revolution".

    It hasnt been true ever since. Quite on the contrary, advertisement which has sexualization in it is usually contraproductive.

    People who want explicit sexual content in their games are a small minority. To most people thats just dumb and/or offensive and certainly kills the mood of the game.

    Sex still sells.
    KyleranKnightFalzSplattrTacticalZombehPhaserlight
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  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 864
    Kyleran said:
    eoloe said:
    kitarad said:



    So unless, one is constantly spying on his child (even in the middle school bathroom) or depriving him/her from her phone/computer....... then lol.


    Unless?  I did a better job than the NSA on keeping tabs on my children's personal lives and computer usage.

    From top to bottom searches of their rooms, clothing, bookbags, my garage (yes, I figured they'd try to hide stuff in there, I did when I was young), calling parents before and during sleepovers, even when it was at my house :) to steaming open snail mail, monitoring all computer usage, which were always kept in the living room, never the bedroom of course.

    Smart phones though, didn't have those to deal with fortunately. Probably would have just beaten them into plowshares or something.

     B) 



    I had a friend in high school with a control freak mother. That did not prevent him to smoke all kinds of stuff, steal stuff, and so on...

    And, if you did not have to deal with smartphones then no merit at all.

  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 864

    In the very same ad on this site theres a dude in full plate armor. Why is the girl only in lingerie? 

    Well that ad clearly targets male teenagers(she seems to belong to the "barely legal" category, or maybe it's just the comic style).

    Conan (1931-32)has more gender equality: bare chest for everyone! o:)

    KyleranAndemnon
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,582

    3) Sex as interactive porn

    I'm fine with these sorts of games existing. I dont really understand why you'd want to spend money on a porn game when u can watch normal porn for free, but whatever.

    However, interactive porn in a massively multiplayer environment? Doesn't seem like a good idea. First, there's not really a need to include 250+ players in an orgy, so why would u make it massively multiplayer? then there's all the issues with predators, children etc. Not to mention that interactive porn seems like it would be even further away from reality than regular porn, and so it'd be reinforcing bad attitudes.

    Keep interactive porn single player, maybe coop. Or better yet, just watch porn like a normal person.


    Sexual content games are not limited to interactive porn. They are also not limited to purchase only.

    Sociolotron was an older MMORPG that included sexual content but also had everything else one would expect from the genre and a good deal of sandbox elements as well. It was made for the typical reason, to provide an online environment for concurrent play by those with an interest in what the game had to offer.

    As with most MMORPGs it was indeed far removed from reality.

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Scot said:
    Iselin said:

    I have zero problems with it on single-player games when it fits the story and is not some X-rated POS just there for the express purpose of titillating oversexed teenage wankers.

    Those were the good old days. You are making me all nostalgic now. :)

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    edited November 2022
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
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