Recapping Pantheon's Development Progress in 2022

BazgrimTV · December 2022

It’s the end of the year, which means it’s time for a detailed review of Pantheon's development over the past 12 months so we can honestly answer the question: is it really any closer to release?

https://youtu.be/p_NGE-n6IDw

After watching the video, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

giantessfan · December 2022

Nice video. Haters going to hate but Pantheon and Ashes made huge strides. I think you are right in the long run though. Alpha for both games will be the make or break. Both have to knock it out of the park and prove haters wrong OR instead they will prove the haters right.

Either way I am watching, not just as someone who wants these games to come out, but in interest to see what happens next.

On one hand I would love a playable game from either one of them. On the other I don't mind a nice trainwreck every once in a while

Brainy · December 2022

BazgrimTV said:

It’s the end of the year, which means it’s time for a detailed review of Pantheon's development over the past 12 months so we can honestly answer the question: is it really any closer to release?

After watching the video, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

You think them saying imminence and a few sentences later alpha is the only problem?

How about this:

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/producers-letter-october-2020/
October 14, 2020

Now, onto Alpha. We do not have these dates yet as there are a lot of systems and content to test in PA5 and PA5 will last “as long as it takes.” We certainly are not going to spend years in PA5

So PA5 was supposed to be the last Pre-alpha, and "CERTAINLY" was not going to take years. Sorry missed that deadline many months ago. Years came and went.,

Or how about this:

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/producers-letter-march-2021/

March 27, 2021

These are BIG tasks. They are going to take our lead programmer’s attention for several months.

So they list 20 tasks before Alpha one starts, several months has come and gone. Maybe several years would have been more appropriate.

Have they made any progress on these 20 tasks? LOL these tasks didnt seem extremely huge for a game that has developing for 8 years. Did they just get started on these basic things last March?

You said in the video they have made alot of progress in 2022. Has there ever been a year you thought they didnt make alot of progress? Can they continue this for another decade without an Alpha and still make alot of progress every year?

Kyleran · December 2022

Brainy said:

BazgrimTV said:

It’s the end of the year, which means it’s time for a detailed review of Pantheon's development over the past 12 months so we can honestly answer the question: is it really any closer to release?

After watching the video, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

You think them saying imminence and a few sentences later alpha is the only problem?

How about this:

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/producers-letter-october-2020/
October 14, 2020
Now, onto Alpha. We do not have these dates yet as there are a lot of systems and content to test in PA5 and PA5 will last “as long as it takes.” We certainly are not going to spend years in PA5

So PA5 was supposed to be the last Pre-alpha, and "CERTAINLY" was not going to take years. Sorry missed that deadline many months ago. Years came and went.,

Or how about this:

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/producers-letter-march-2021/
March 27, 2021
These are BIG tasks. They are going to take our lead programmer’s attention for several months.

So they list 20 tasks before Alpha one starts, several months has come and gone. Maybe several years would have been more appropriate.

Have they made any progress on these 20 tasks? LOL these tasks didnt seem extremely huge for a game that has developing for 8 years. Did they just get started on these basic things last March?

You said in the video they have made alot of progress in 2022. Has there ever been a year you thought they didnt make alot of progress? Can they continue this for another decade without an Alpha and still make alot of progress every year?

I think it's been pretty clear from observing these indie KSer MMORPGS over the past 10 plus years is development continues until the money to make them runs out, then out the door they will go.

Who can predict when that might be, whether we're talking about Pantheon, CU, Ashes or Star Citizen, so far all four remain solvent and the "progress" rolls endlessly onwards....

Mendel · December 2022

Kyleran said:

Brainy said:

BazgrimTV said:

It’s the end of the year, which means it’s time for a detailed review of Pantheon's development over the past 12 months so we can honestly answer the question: is it really any closer to release?

After watching the video, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

You think them saying imminence and a few sentences later alpha is the only problem?

How about this:

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/producers-letter-october-2020/
October 14, 2020
Now, onto Alpha. We do not have these dates yet as there are a lot of systems and content to test in PA5 and PA5 will last “as long as it takes.” We certainly are not going to spend years in PA5

So PA5 was supposed to be the last Pre-alpha, and "CERTAINLY" was not going to take years. Sorry missed that deadline many months ago. Years came and went.,

Or how about this:

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/producers-letter-march-2021/
March 27, 2021
These are BIG tasks. They are going to take our lead programmer’s attention for several months.

So they list 20 tasks before Alpha one starts, several months has come and gone. Maybe several years would have been more appropriate.

Have they made any progress on these 20 tasks? LOL these tasks didnt seem extremely huge for a game that has developing for 8 years. Did they just get started on these basic things last March?

You said in the video they have made alot of progress in 2022. Has there ever been a year you thought they didnt make alot of progress? Can they continue this for another decade without an Alpha and still make alot of progress every year?

I think it's been pretty clear from observing these indie KSer MMORPGS over the past 10 plus years is development continues until the money to make them runs out, then out the door they will go.

Who can predict when that might be, whether we're talking about Pantheon, CU, Ashes or Star Citizen, so far all four remain solvent and the "progress" rolls endlessly onwards....

In the process, these companies are redefining what terms like 'progress', 'development', 'support', and 'donate' actually mean. The effect is that customers are being conditioned to accept shoddy practices as the norm. Gaming companies are positioning themselves to be poor, deprived victims deserving charity and special consideration.

Nanfoodle · December 2022

giantessfan said:

Nice video. Haters going to hate but Pantheon and Ashes made huge strides. I think you are right in the long run though. Alpha for both games will be the make or break. Both have to knock it out of the park and prove haters wrong OR instead they will prove the haters right.

Either way I am watching, not just as someone who wants these games to come out, but in interest to see what happens next.

On one hand I would love a playable game from either one of them. On the other I don't mind a nice trainwreck every once in a while

Pantheon has really stepped up in the past couple of years. This is the one MMO I hoped for more then any other. Ashes and Pantheon are in 2 different ball parks though. Life cycle of these two games are not even in the same ball park. Ashes has passed Pantheon in developemnt for one.

Pantheon still struggling to reach Alpha. While Ashes is about to move to alpha 2. Pantheon is now in a very outdated engine, while Ashes has updated to UE5 and most of the work required to look and play like UE5 is done.

Pantheon is still building grey box zones, while Ashes is on the final pass throughs to make the world look polished. My guess Ashes will be at full release and Pantheon will be years out before they even think about beta. Question will be, will Pantheon be relavent at that point?

Looking at T and L can you see Pantheon getting their niche they need to keep money rolling in? I hope so but not sure that's possible. VR just does not have the funding to launch before Pantheon becomes irrelevant.

Kyleran · December 2022

Nanfoodle said:

giantessfan said:

Nice video. Haters going to hate but Pantheon and Ashes made huge strides. I think you are right in the long run though. Alpha for both games will be the make or break. Both have to knock it out of the park and prove haters wrong OR instead they will prove the haters right.

Either way I am watching, not just as someone who wants these games to come out, but in interest to see what happens next.

On one hand I would love a playable game from either one of them. On the other I don't mind a nice trainwreck every once in a while

Pantheon has really stepped up in the past couple of years. This is the one MMO I hoped for more then any other. Ashes and Pantheon are in 2 different ball parks though. Life cycle of these two games are not even in the same ball park. Ashes has passed Pantheon in developemnt for one.

Pantheon still struggling to reach Alpha. While Ashes is about to move to alpha 2. Pantheon is now in a very outdated engine, while Ashes has updated to UE5 and most of the work required to look and play like UE5 is done.

Pantheon is still building grey box zones, while Ashes is on the final pass throughs to make the world look polished. My guess Ashes will be at full release and Pantheon will be years out before they even think about beta. Question will be, will Pantheon be relavent at that point?

Looking at T and L can you see Pantheon getting their niche they need to keep money rolling in? I hope so but not sure that's possible. VR just does not have the funding to launch before Pantheon becomes irrelevant.

The one factor Pantheon team has going in it favor is there isn't any MMORPG currently in development (outside of Embers Adrift) remotely similar in design philosophy.

Ashes will be competing for a different audience which will like draw from more PVP centric titles such as Albion Online, EVE and some others.

Pantheon needs to draw players who play EverQuest One really, perhaps those who enjoy OSR, WOW Classic or even FFXI.

Nanfoodle · December 2022

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

giantessfan said:

Nice video. Haters going to hate but Pantheon and Ashes made huge strides. I think you are right in the long run though. Alpha for both games will be the make or break. Both have to knock it out of the park and prove haters wrong OR instead they will prove the haters right.

Either way I am watching, not just as someone who wants these games to come out, but in interest to see what happens next.

On one hand I would love a playable game from either one of them. On the other I don't mind a nice trainwreck every once in a while

Pantheon has really stepped up in the past couple of years. This is the one MMO I hoped for more then any other. Ashes and Pantheon are in 2 different ball parks though. Life cycle of these two games are not even in the same ball park. Ashes has passed Pantheon in developemnt for one.

Pantheon still struggling to reach Alpha. While Ashes is about to move to alpha 2. Pantheon is now in a very outdated engine, while Ashes has updated to UE5 and most of the work required to look and play like UE5 is done.

Pantheon is still building grey box zones, while Ashes is on the final pass throughs to make the world look polished. My guess Ashes will be at full release and Pantheon will be years out before they even think about beta. Question will be, will Pantheon be relavent at that point?

Looking at T and L can you see Pantheon getting their niche they need to keep money rolling in? I hope so but not sure that's possible. VR just does not have the funding to launch before Pantheon becomes irrelevant.

The one factor Pantheon team has going in it favor is there isn't any MMORPG currently in development (outside of Embers Adrift) remotely similar in design philosophy.

Ashes will be competing for a different audience which will like draw from more PVP centric titles such as Albion Online, EVE and some others.

Pantheon needs to draw players who play EverQuest One really, perhaps those who enjoy OSR, WOW Classic or even FFXI.

I disagree. Ashes main goal is capturing an audience that is focused of group play. That Pantheon's prime philosophy. Pantheon keeps saying they are not EQ Next. They have only captured the essance of the classes and team play. The rest of Pantheon is a modern MMO with its own unique systems.

Capturing the EQ fan base with a new lore. Only now Day Break Studios is 3 to 4 years into making a new EQ title. What do you think EQ fans will pick? A new lore or the one they love over the past 20 years, with also a modern twist? If EQ3 also has a reliance on team play, what will Pantheon have?

achesoma · December 2022

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

giantessfan said:

Nice video. Haters going to hate but Pantheon and Ashes made huge strides. I think you are right in the long run though. Alpha for both games will be the make or break. Both have to knock it out of the park and prove haters wrong OR instead they will prove the haters right.

Either way I am watching, not just as someone who wants these games to come out, but in interest to see what happens next.

On one hand I would love a playable game from either one of them. On the other I don't mind a nice trainwreck every once in a while

Pantheon has really stepped up in the past couple of years. This is the one MMO I hoped for more then any other. Ashes and Pantheon are in 2 different ball parks though. Life cycle of these two games are not even in the same ball park. Ashes has passed Pantheon in developemnt for one.

Pantheon still struggling to reach Alpha. While Ashes is about to move to alpha 2. Pantheon is now in a very outdated engine, while Ashes has updated to UE5 and most of the work required to look and play like UE5 is done.

Pantheon is still building grey box zones, while Ashes is on the final pass throughs to make the world look polished. My guess Ashes will be at full release and Pantheon will be years out before they even think about beta. Question will be, will Pantheon be relavent at that point?

Looking at T and L can you see Pantheon getting their niche they need to keep money rolling in? I hope so but not sure that's possible. VR just does not have the funding to launch before Pantheon becomes irrelevant.

The one factor Pantheon team has going in it favor is there isn't any MMORPG currently in development (outside of Embers Adrift) remotely similar in design philosophy.

Ashes will be competing for a different audience which will like draw from more PVP centric titles such as Albion Online, EVE and some others.

Pantheon needs to draw players who play EverQuest One really, perhaps those who enjoy OSR, WOW Classic or even FFXI.

I disagree. Ashes main goal is capturing an audience that is focused of group play. That Pantheon's prime philosophy. Pantheon keeps saying they are not EQ Next. They have only captured the essance of the classes and team play. The rest of Pantheon is a modern MMO with its own unique systems.

Capturing the EQ fan base with a new lore. Only now Day Break Studios is 3 to 4 years into making a new EQ title. What do you think EQ fans will pick? A new lore or the one they love over the past 20 years, with also a modern twist? If EQ3 also has a reliance on team play, what will Pantheon have?

Come on man, Ashes is very clearly a pvp sandbox focus and Pantheon is pve. There is not many, if any, in the Pantheon community looking forward to Ashes. Open pvp is a vastly different play style than no pvp.

Also, there is zero evidence that an EQ 3 is even in development. There was just a rumor spread by a clickbait article a while back.

Kyleran · January 2023

achesoma said:

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

giantessfan said:

Nice video. Haters going to hate but Pantheon and Ashes made huge strides. I think you are right in the long run though. Alpha for both games will be the make or break. Both have to knock it out of the park and prove haters wrong OR instead they will prove the haters right.

Either way I am watching, not just as someone who wants these games to come out, but in interest to see what happens next.

On one hand I would love a playable game from either one of them. On the other I don't mind a nice trainwreck every once in a while

Pantheon has really stepped up in the past couple of years. This is the one MMO I hoped for more then any other. Ashes and Pantheon are in 2 different ball parks though. Life cycle of these two games are not even in the same ball park. Ashes has passed Pantheon in developemnt for one.

Pantheon still struggling to reach Alpha. While Ashes is about to move to alpha 2. Pantheon is now in a very outdated engine, while Ashes has updated to UE5 and most of the work required to look and play like UE5 is done.

Pantheon is still building grey box zones, while Ashes is on the final pass throughs to make the world look polished. My guess Ashes will be at full release and Pantheon will be years out before they even think about beta. Question will be, will Pantheon be relavent at that point?

Looking at T and L can you see Pantheon getting their niche they need to keep money rolling in? I hope so but not sure that's possible. VR just does not have the funding to launch before Pantheon becomes irrelevant.

The one factor Pantheon team has going in it favor is there isn't any MMORPG currently in development (outside of Embers Adrift) remotely similar in design philosophy.

Ashes will be competing for a different audience which will like draw from more PVP centric titles such as Albion Online, EVE and some others.

Pantheon needs to draw players who play EverQuest One really, perhaps those who enjoy OSR, WOW Classic or even FFXI.

I disagree. Ashes main goal is capturing an audience that is focused of group play. That Pantheon's prime philosophy. Pantheon keeps saying they are not EQ Next. They have only captured the essance of the classes and team play. The rest of Pantheon is a modern MMO with its own unique systems.

Capturing the EQ fan base with a new lore. Only now Day Break Studios is 3 to 4 years into making a new EQ title. What do you think EQ fans will pick? A new lore or the one they love over the past 20 years, with also a modern twist? If EQ3 also has a reliance on team play, what will Pantheon have?

Come on man, Ashes is very clearly a pvp sandbox focus and Pantheon is pve. There is not many, if any, in the Pantheon community looking forward to Ashes. Open pvp is a vastly different play style than no pvp.

Also, there is zero evidence that an EQ 3 is even in development. There was just a rumor spread by a clickbait article a while back.

Agreed, Ashes is all about territory control, more likely to draw from the New World type player.

It might have group centric PVE but if someone is looking forward to this in Ashes as a primary draw I suspect they'll come away disappointed

Slapshot1188 · January 2023

Kyleran said:

achesoma said:

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

giantessfan said:

Nice video. Haters going to hate but Pantheon and Ashes made huge strides. I think you are right in the long run though. Alpha for both games will be the make or break. Both have to knock it out of the park and prove haters wrong OR instead they will prove the haters right.

Either way I am watching, not just as someone who wants these games to come out, but in interest to see what happens next.

On one hand I would love a playable game from either one of them. On the other I don't mind a nice trainwreck every once in a while

Pantheon has really stepped up in the past couple of years. This is the one MMO I hoped for more then any other. Ashes and Pantheon are in 2 different ball parks though. Life cycle of these two games are not even in the same ball park. Ashes has passed Pantheon in developemnt for one.

Pantheon still struggling to reach Alpha. While Ashes is about to move to alpha 2. Pantheon is now in a very outdated engine, while Ashes has updated to UE5 and most of the work required to look and play like UE5 is done.

Pantheon is still building grey box zones, while Ashes is on the final pass throughs to make the world look polished. My guess Ashes will be at full release and Pantheon will be years out before they even think about beta. Question will be, will Pantheon be relavent at that point?

Looking at T and L can you see Pantheon getting their niche they need to keep money rolling in? I hope so but not sure that's possible. VR just does not have the funding to launch before Pantheon becomes irrelevant.

The one factor Pantheon team has going in it favor is there isn't any MMORPG currently in development (outside of Embers Adrift) remotely similar in design philosophy.

Ashes will be competing for a different audience which will like draw from more PVP centric titles such as Albion Online, EVE and some others.

Pantheon needs to draw players who play EverQuest One really, perhaps those who enjoy OSR, WOW Classic or even FFXI.

I disagree. Ashes main goal is capturing an audience that is focused of group play. That Pantheon's prime philosophy. Pantheon keeps saying they are not EQ Next. They have only captured the essance of the classes and team play. The rest of Pantheon is a modern MMO with its own unique systems.

Capturing the EQ fan base with a new lore. Only now Day Break Studios is 3 to 4 years into making a new EQ title. What do you think EQ fans will pick? A new lore or the one they love over the past 20 years, with also a modern twist? If EQ3 also has a reliance on team play, what will Pantheon have?

Come on man, Ashes is very clearly a pvp sandbox focus and Pantheon is pve. There is not many, if any, in the Pantheon community looking forward to Ashes. Open pvp is a vastly different play style than no pvp.

Also, there is zero evidence that an EQ 3 is even in development. There was just a rumor spread by a clickbait article a while back.

Agreed, Ashes is all about territory control, more likely to draw from the New World type player.

It might have group centric PVE but if someone is looking forward to this in Ashes as a primary draw I suspect they'll come away disappointed

AoC's main competition for players will be Archeage 2.

And if we actually did get a Pantheon and EQ3 battle... that would be awesome.
Unlikely to ever happen... but I'd check them both out.

[Deleted User] · January 2023

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Adamantine · January 2023

*shrug*

Wake me when theres something to actually play.

Final game, alpha version, dont care. Just as long as there is actually something there.

Before that point, "progress reports" are really not that uber interesting.

Vrika · January 2023

Remali said:

Aoc isnt so much pvp centric as you might think
If what I read a couple of years back still stands there will be heavy penalties for attacking players who dont wanna fight

It's not about whether AoC forces you to PvP or not, but their node system is so large part of game that if you won't participate in it to avoid PvP then you don't have enough other stuff to do.

Kyleran · January 2023

Vrika said:

Remali said:

Aoc isnt so much pvp centric as you might think
If what I read a couple of years back still stands there will be heavy penalties for attacking players who dont wanna fight

It's not about whether AoC forces you to PvP or not, but their node system is so large part of game that if you won't participate in it to avoid PvP then you don't have enough other stuff to do.

Similar to complaints in New World, players can totally ignore the PVP but they are missing out on a significant portion of the game related to territory control and the rewards or benefits unique to it.

Sovrath · January 2023

Adamantine said:

*shrug*

Wake me when theres something to actually play.

Final game, alpha version, dont care. Just as long as there is actually something there.

Before that point, "progress reports" are really not that uber interesting.

I actually enjoy the progress reports. It's one of the reasons why, when I had gone to PAX (pre covid) I would mostly spend time on the floor talking with developers and trying new games.

I always like to see progress, changes, things that have been added and discarded. It's always rather interesting.

Mendel · January 2023

Sovrath said:

Adamantine said:

*shrug*

Wake me when theres something to actually play.

Final game, alpha version, dont care. Just as long as there is actually something there.

Before that point, "progress reports" are really not that uber interesting.

I actually enjoy the progress reports. It's one of the reasons why, when I had gone to PAX (pre covid) I would mostly spend time on the floor talking with developers and trying new games.

I always like to see progress, changes, things that have been added and discarded. It's always rather interesting.

Interacting with developers is so far superior to the PR demo press release movies, talking head 'progress reports', and preliminary game play trailers the entire industry puts out, it's not funny. Being able to ask a direct question is invaluable. Getting a straight answer is even more priceless. Anything to bypass the marketing department.

Kyleran · January 2023

Mendel said:

Sovrath said:

Adamantine said:

*shrug*

Wake me when theres something to actually play.

Final game, alpha version, dont care. Just as long as there is actually something there.

Before that point, "progress reports" are really not that uber interesting.

I actually enjoy the progress reports. It's one of the reasons why, when I had gone to PAX (pre covid) I would mostly spend time on the floor talking with developers and trying new games.

I always like to see progress, changes, things that have been added and discarded. It's always rather interesting.

Interacting with developers is so far superior to the PR demo press release movies, talking head 'progress reports', and preliminary game play trailers the entire industry puts out, it's not funny. Being able to ask a direct question is invaluable. Getting a straight answer is even more priceless. Anything to bypass the marketing department.

Rare is the day most companies I've worked for let developers interact directly with customers outside of a pure support role and even then Level 1 and 2 support was sometimes in place to screen beforehand.

The few times we were invited to customer fairs or events we were given instructions to largely keep our mouths shut and in particular promise nothing in terms of what was possible or in planning.

Gaming is very different, developers are often used as marketing vehicles, guess most development houses haven't learned any better yet.

Sovrath · January 2023

Mendel said:

Sovrath said:

Adamantine said:

*shrug*

Wake me when theres something to actually play.

Final game, alpha version, dont care. Just as long as there is actually something there.

Before that point, "progress reports" are really not that uber interesting.

I actually enjoy the progress reports. It's one of the reasons why, when I had gone to PAX (pre covid) I would mostly spend time on the floor talking with developers and trying new games.

I always like to see progress, changes, things that have been added and discarded. It's always rather interesting.

Interacting with developers is so far superior to the PR demo press release movies, talking head 'progress reports', and preliminary game play trailers the entire industry puts out, it's not funny. Being able to ask a direct question is invaluable. Getting a straight answer is even more priceless. Anything to bypass the marketing department.

That was just an example of where my interests lie.

I still enjoy the videos with progress. Having made my "very large" Skyrim mod and then suddenly getting an idea and reluctantly starting on another Skyrim mod (albeit much smaller) I really value seeing the process developers go through.

While people might see it as marketing, I very much see a lot of their process and a lot of their issues manifest in making a game mod.

So, while people look at their videos and wonder why it's taking so long or why they made this decision or changed that feature, all I see is stuff I've gone through. Though on a much smaller, less professional, scale.

I remember making the decision to make "The Monastery" area a murder procedural. I did this while thinking it would add a "maximum" of one month to the project. It took 6 months.

Or when constantly fixing my Aranea encounter, thinking it was fixed, it breaking over and over again and suddenly saying "enough!" I'll rethink how it manifests because I was spending a lot of time on something that should have taken no time and it was taking a lot of time.

I see this in developer diaries, in talking with developers, in the breakdown of "what went wrong" when developers talk about their projects.

So yeah, these videos are interesting to me.

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Recapping Pantheon's Development Progress in 2022

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Recapping Pantheon's Development Progress in 2022

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV