Removing the open world PvP from a game like Albion wouldn't really change much for the majority of players, and they could shunt larger scale PvP content back to queued lobbies for GvG. The game already relies on instances for a lot of it's content, this wouldn't be a major hurdle for the title.
The amount lost making a PvE server, as consequence, is a fairly minimal amount of the overall user experience and focused around minimizing the potential for grief in general content.
This doesn't really mitigate what limited community interaction does exist in Albion for larger scale guild combat. Cooperative play would still exist for dungeon and instanced raid/GvG play. As established previously, ganking isn't competition. If you're fleeing from any potential danger and only engaging in combat when there's a strongly biased advantage, it's not competitive play.
This is also why it poses a threat to PvP servers. It'd be a ruleset tweak that'd cull the one thread of concern for many players, and since the PvP servers no longer persist for lack of a better option, they'd suffer headcount loss on those servers.
Conversely though, it could result in increased players in the game overall.
This is a big element of that migration people talk about at times. It also relates the fact we can't call our preferred niche what larger or more games have to do, because if they are seeking broader or more stable profit then some concessions and changes are inevitable.
This is also where I'd prefer if they branched out to explore more niches and mechanics, as opposed to the trend chasing that happens because of data driven development much of the time. Unexplored concepts are hard to quantify the value of otherwise. If they're gonna die prematurely as a title, would at least wanna see it because of a misfire in innovation instead of headbutting the same tired problems.
This is also where I'd prefer if they branched out to explore more niches and mechanics, as opposed to the trend chasing that happens because of data driven development much of the time. Unexplored concepts are hard to quantify the value of otherwise. If they're gonna die prematurely as a title, would at least wanna see it because of a misfire in innovation instead of headbutting the same tired problems.
Yes this is my thoughts as well. Everyone has an opinion on whether PVE servers separate from PVP servers would work or not for the overall health of the game. Yet many of the dead games have refused to put in PVE servers. Games with separate PVP/PVE servers or areas seem to do just fine or thrive. In many of those games PVP is doing great. I would be there is more PVP going on in games like ESO and WoW than in most of the full PVP titles. Mainly because more people play those titles than full PVP titles. Either way there is still more PVP going on.
Its just crazy that so many dev teams wont find out what is best for their game for themselves instead of having some theory that it wont work for them. So they go out of business with the what if scenario unresolved.
Perfect example of this is New World. LIKE are you serious they wont have a separate PVE server. They theorize how it wont matter because PVP is already optional. Ummm it does matter. PVE players want to be on a server with people like themselves so they can be in guilds and get recognition for their acheivements. They dont want chats and accolades all going to PVP. Yet new world wont even test this with all their money LOL.
Now that comment was backwards. Stating that majority of players won't miss content they don't engage with doesn't even correlate to your nonsense.
I get you're upset people aren't simply nodding their head along with your comments, but try and see some rationality to understand why your ideas are so flawed instead of attacking others. You need to learn how to take constructive criticism.
No I'm not you misunderstood one of the reasons I used that, I am saying the developers made a change that was greeted with a great deal of anger but over time the developer went on and developed more content in that direction. So ask yourself why and are you in a better position than the Albion developers to see what is bringing them success.
Yeah I think you give dev teams way way to much credit for knowing what is best for their games. If they did know, then the games would not be stagnanting but seeing year over year large increases. If this game was seeing huge increases in paying customers then maybe your point would have some weight. Right now its just stagnating.
How can you even know if a PVE server would be good or bad for the game. The devs could put something like that in just like UO did and become extremely popular. Not just some minor blip on a radar.
So no I dont think devs are some experts on what their customers want. When dev teams can make multiple games that are highly successful OVER and OVER again, then I will agree they know what the customers want.
So many game devs are just 1 hit wonders.
I don't know if this "rumor" I've heard bandied about is true, but I have seen others suggest that many MMORPGs have stats on "what activities players partake in and how often and how long." If not, I'm sure they have some kind way of measuring what is working and what is not in their games.
My point is, a small fraction of players visit websites/message boards. Even then, many post about activities they want/need and when looked at don't actually partake in. Basically it boils down to players looking for fun. If they don't find it they leave. Seldom do they tell a game "Why."
If PvP is not fun for them, players will just stop playing. If crafting is too much for them, they leave. If combat changes their favorite character, they leave. If the "flavor of the month" switches and they don't have it, they leave. The point being, the developers get almost no feedback.
However... They can look at MMOs and think, "They're doing very well. What can we implement from them?" (Look at WoW, the masters of this.)
Take that for what it is, just more speculation
See I have a different take on this then you do. I have talked with Devs, friends with Devs, also been to the same schools and fields as devs. What I have seen is devs get plenty of feedback, unfortunately too much feedback. They cannot decipher good feedback from bad feedback. Devs are game makers, but not really game players. When a dev says he played a game like WoW they generally are talking at low level, they are not high end raiders, or high end crafter or high end anything. They dont have a clue what their customer wants because they dont understand them.
Most devs I know like very niche systems that average gamers dont even care about. I have told devs in betas how the system they are putting in will not go well, had detailed conversations with devs on various systems, then they put their stupid system in and BAM people hate it. The problem is they surround themselves with this group of "YES" fanbois that constantly reaffirm their beliefs. So they cant figure out good and bad feedback.
Solution in the old days was games PAID players to test and feedback the game. These were HIRED PLAYERS. So real core player advocates had a seat at the table. Now players who play ALPHA do it for free, and people that play in very untested systems are not the same as end game retail players. So Devs are getting really bad information that plays into their own belief.
So I think Devs are totally out of touch. If devs studios actually put real players on the building teams again, then maybe you might see some good stuff come out.
These are great points and from a different point of view. I can see these, too
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
It doesn't take any analysis to know mmos are in trouble.
Really? I see more players paying more money into them. MMOs certainly are the "decline" FOR ME, but as games, they seem to hold their own
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
It doesn't take any analysis to know mmos are in trouble.
It does take analysis to determine why and whether or not anything needs doing or in fact can be done. That analysis has be deeper than "X sucks" as the explanation for everything, or anything really. It must also consider surrounding factors that while not part of such games have impact on the success of them. Baseless complaints and observations do nothing to shed light on the matter.
It doesn't take any analysis to know mmos are in trouble.
Really? I see more players paying more money into them. MMOs certainly are the "decline" FOR ME, but as games, they seem to hold their own
MMORPGs are getting more money than they had been, but have a declining percentage of online gaming revenue as a whole. The own they are holding is not what it once was.
It doesn't take any analysis to know mmos are in trouble.
Really? I see more players paying more money into them. MMOs certainly are the "decline" FOR ME, but as games, they seem to hold their own
I believe most of that is because MMORPGs have become a business for all of the RMTers. As regular Gamers are getting tired of those games, and as more gamers realize the monetization scheme and pull out, there's a big fall coming. Just my opinion.
It doesn't take any analysis to know mmos are in trouble.
Really? I see more players paying more money into them. MMOs certainly are the "decline" FOR ME, but as games, they seem to hold their own
I believe most of that is because MMORPGs have become a business for all of the RMTers. As regular Gamers are getting tired of those games, and as more gamers realize the monetization scheme and pull out, there's a big fall coming. Just my opinion.
MMORPGs have always been a business. They changed there practices over time to address the impact of rising costs combined with the effectively static subscription pricing they were constrained by. Without eventual demise of the genre was certain as the rising costs and static fees would have ultimately become untenable.
What many like to describe as schemes are survival strategies that must be adopted because unlike most businesses they can not raise prices in the face of increasing costs, making the subscription revenue they do get effectively worth less over time.
Would players be willing to pay a monthly fee adjusted for inflation so that the $15 fee of twenty some years ago be adjusted upward to have the same value in today's currency so that the supplementary means of revenue introduced could be removed?
Not bloody likely. Most are clenched so tight it's hard to convince them to drop the woefully inadequate $15 a month in today's currency never mind an updated price that reflects the value these fees used to have.
So, subscriptions will largely remain as only part of a MMORPG's revenue at most rather the focal point they once were.
Yes. The trick is finding that "sweet spot" needed for MMORPGs. I blame Blizzard (WoW) for state of MMOs today. They made so much money that "millions of players" became the new baseline instead of "Hundreds of thousands" players.
I've been preaching (from my desktop foxhole) that MMORPGs should PICK a playerbase and stick to it. Cut that "millions of players" goal back to "hundreds of thousands of players" and insure those players are satisfied. If 150K players paying monthly is not enough to keep your lights on, maybe you're doing it wrong? lol
I dont understand this concept. There are so many gamers today. A decent game will get 5 mil units sold without even batting an eyelash. Anything that appeals to customers sells millions of units. Even trash games that lose 99.9% of their players within a couple of months, sell millions of units. If a game cant sell millions of units in todays world, its probably just a really really trash game. Prove me wrong, show me an amazing game released in 2022+ that doesnt sell at least 5mil+ in a year.
When you say 150k players only, you are basically asking for a super trashy game. You might end up with 150k after 99% of the players leave.
Just look at Elden Ring, very niche, stuck to its core players, hard playstyle, 17.5 mil sales this year.
Games dont have to appeal to the everybody gets a trophy crowd just to sell 20mil units. Al you need is a decent game.
Stray, a highly regarded game sold 3.4 M units since release back in July, currently 744 people online .
I don't think your math is on the mark about the number of people who play any game long term.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This makes the genre look like it's in real trouble. The last decade has seen a dramatic dropoff in terms of new games released.
...
Thanks for these graphs. What is particularly striking to me is the timing of this dropoff, starting from 2008/2009. This roughly coincides with several things of varying importance and potential impact on MMO development:
The "great recession"
Smart phones
Gen Z aging into a new video game market segment
The Recession
In 2008, I was a recently graduated, junior engineer with a modest paycheck that dwarfed anything I had made up to that point. My general cost of living was still the same as it was when I was a student so I had plenty of disposable income (and free time) to throw at my gaming hobby. I was laid-off in 2009 and the job market seemed to have vanished. I was able to make my savings (and low paying jobs) stretch for the next couple of years by sacrificing luxuries like jumping on new releases whenever they caught my attention. I had one or two games I relaxed with but pretty much ignored everything else. Obviously not everyone had my experience, but I wonder how the recession impacted game studios outlooks and willingness to invest in costly projects like MMOs.
Smart Phones
The first iPhone came out in 2007. Obviously there is a bit of lag between the release of new hardware and a shift in focus towards it by software developers. Apps would've been far cheaper to develop than MMOs. Of course, it's not like major studios dropped their AAA games and started putting out apps right away, but from a business standpoint the risk vs reward leaned in favor of developing for this new space.
Gen Z becoming a market segment
By 2008, early gen Zers were around 10 years old. They had more access to tech than any generation before them, including the internet and social media. Their parents were dealing with a recession. Targeting them with new game / business models became viable around that time. Apps. Bite-sized experiences that could more seamlessly be shared online / through social media. Free-to-play, micro-transaction based games that lowered or removed barriers to entry allowing them to jump on. Obviously, older gamers bought into these things as well, but having a fresh market segment that doesn't have the same expectations as previous generations made these experiments with game design and business practices less risky.
TLDR
Looking at the graph above, I can't help but wonder how a "perfect storm" of factors like the recession, smart phones (with internet on the go), and a younger generation becoming old enough to really dive into gaming drove development dollars away from traditional MMOs towards other types of games, including MMO-offsprings like MOBAs and so on. Thanks again for making and sharing the graph.
before i say anything i want to you all to know i'm not a very good speller so i hope i make some senses what i'm saying here. Anyway well from my option i think mmorpg has never look brighter than it has in years since we all really running out of mmorpg to play that is actually good or played the older ones too long that it's getting too old or so on, but then again with all these promising mmorpgs that are coming i'm not really holding my breath but want to at the same time cause many has failed when they were ones of the many prosiming ones.... i really think what's missing is of all the teams of developers that are making mmorpgs are only thinking of making money instead of making something truly special what themselfs would like to play themselfs too....
before i say anything i want to you all to know i'm not a very good speller so i hope i make some senses what i'm saying here. Anyway well from my option i think mmorpg has never look brighter than it has in years since we all really running out of mmorpg to play that is actually good or played the older ones too long that it's getting too old or so on, but then again with all these promising mmorpgs that are coming i'm not really holding my breath but want to at the same time cause many has failed when they were ones of the many prosiming ones.... i really think what's missing is of all the teams of developers that are making mmorpgs are only thinking of making money instead of making something truly special what themselfs would like to play themselfs too....
Well I think I got most of that, the problem is the developers used to be far closer to running the studios, now their vision is secondary to executives concerns about "this quarter" etc, the money always comes first. Even if that means a studios reputation gets damaged that is not as important as this quarters profits, they seemed to be prefer to gamble that the reputation can always be recovered. Maybe it can, and that's not such a gamble after all?
before i say anything i want to you all to know i'm not a very good speller so i hope i make some senses what i'm saying here. Anyway well from my option i think mmorpg has never look brighter than it has in years since we all really running out of mmorpg to play that is actually good or played the older ones too long that it's getting too old or so on, but then again with all these promising mmorpgs that are coming i'm not really holding my breath but want to at the same time cause many has failed when they were ones of the many prosiming ones.... i really think what's missing is of all the teams of developers that are making mmorpgs are only thinking of making money instead of making something truly special what themselfs would like to play themselfs too....
Hope for the future is good so long as it is kept in reason.
MMORPGs are operated by for profit companies, and as such have always been for profit. Claims otherwise have been and always will be fantasy.
What has changed over time is the methods by which they must seek profit, largely due to the subscription fees the market will bear not in any way keeping pace with their increasing costs over time, with some now not being willing to subscribe at all.
They have to and will make profit somehow. Their only option is permanent closure. Good luck with getting new MMORPGs should that come to pass with any of the major games in current operation.
before i say anything i want to you all to know i'm not a very good speller so i hope i make some senses what i'm saying here. Anyway well from my option i think mmorpg has never look brighter than it has in years since we all really running out of mmorpg to play that is actually good or played the older ones too long that it's getting too old or so on, but then again with all these promising mmorpgs that are coming i'm not really holding my breath but want to at the same time cause many has failed when they were ones of the many prosiming ones.... i really think what's missing is of all the teams of developers that are making mmorpgs are only thinking of making money instead of making something truly special what themselfs would like to play themselfs too....
Well I think I got most of that, the problem is the developers used to be far closer to running the studios, now their vision is secondary to executives concerns about "this quarter" etc, the money always comes first. Even if that means a studios reputation gets damaged that is not as important as this quarters profits, they seemed to be prefer to gamble that the reputation can always be recovered. Maybe it can, and that's not such a gamble after all?
The problem is that traditional means of MMORPG revenue are no longer adequate. Subscription fees, when available to pay, are inadequate as they have been largely fixed for decades in the face of rising costs. Such is not perpetually sustainable. Supplemental revenue, or new profit models entirely, had to be found for these companies to endure.
What changes otherwise would you suggest, keeping in mind that subscription fees are for most part fixed?
before i say anything i want to you all to know i'm not a very good speller so i hope i make some senses what i'm saying here. Anyway well from my option i think mmorpg has never look brighter than it has in years since we all really running out of mmorpg to play that is actually good or played the older ones too long that it's getting too old or so on, but then again with all these promising mmorpgs that are coming i'm not really holding my breath but want to at the same time cause many has failed when they were ones of the many prosiming ones.... i really think what's missing is of all the teams of developers that are making mmorpgs are only thinking of making money instead of making something truly special what themselfs would like to play themselfs too....
Well I think I got most of that, the problem is the developers used to be far closer to running the studios, now their vision is secondary to executives concerns about "this quarter" etc, the money always comes first. Even if that means a studios reputation gets damaged that is not as important as this quarters profits, they seemed to be prefer to gamble that the reputation can always be recovered. Maybe it can, and that's not such a gamble after all?
The problem is that traditional means of MMORPG revenue are no longer adequate. Subscription fees, when available to pay, are inadequate as they have been largely fixed for decades in the face of rising costs. Such is not perpetually sustainable. Supplemental revenue, or new profit models entirely, had to be found for these companies to endure.
What changes otherwise would you suggest, keeping in mind that subscription fees are for most part fixed?
If you shackle one type of finance of course you must turn to others, there is no law that says a subscription must neve go up. That said I would focus on cosmetic items, they are not P2W and a game can rake it in from them, some like Fortnite built an empire from that alone.
before i say anything i want to you all to know i'm not a very good speller so i hope i make some senses what i'm saying here. Anyway well from my option i think mmorpg has never look brighter than it has in years since we all really running out of mmorpg to play that is actually good or played the older ones too long that it's getting too old or so on, but then again with all these promising mmorpgs that are coming i'm not really holding my breath but want to at the same time cause many has failed when they were ones of the many prosiming ones.... i really think what's missing is of all the teams of developers that are making mmorpgs are only thinking of making money instead of making something truly special what themselfs would like to play themselfs too....
Well I think I got most of that, the problem is the developers used to be far closer to running the studios, now their vision is secondary to executives concerns about "this quarter" etc, the money always comes first. Even if that means a studios reputation gets damaged that is not as important as this quarters profits, they seemed to be prefer to gamble that the reputation can always be recovered. Maybe it can, and that's not such a gamble after all?
The problem is that traditional means of MMORPG revenue are no longer adequate. Subscription fees, when available to pay, are inadequate as they have been largely fixed for decades in the face of rising costs. Such is not perpetually sustainable. Supplemental revenue, or new profit models entirely, had to be found for these companies to endure.
What changes otherwise would you suggest, keeping in mind that subscription fees are for most part fixed?
If you shackle one type of finance of course you must turn to others, there is no law that says a subscription must neve go up. That said I would focus on cosmetic items, they are not P2W and a game can rake it in from them, some like Fortnite built an empire from that alone.
As if monetization hasn't been a top priority for literally every company making these games. The cash shops are the first thing working. Not to mention everything is now digital distribution. The people at the top making millions highlighting the pay disparity. The pure greed where they rake in money hand over fist.
Now they release early access as an excuse to not even pay actual testers and have the public do it for them.
If those subscription fees actually were inadequate they would have raised them. They made millions but wanted billions. They they made billions and still wanted more. The post you guys are responding to is right they care more about making money than the games themselves in a lot of cases.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
before i say anything i want to you all to know i'm not a very good speller so i hope i make some senses what i'm saying here. Anyway well from my option i think mmorpg has never look brighter than it has in years since we all really running out of mmorpg to play that is actually good or played the older ones too long that it's getting too old or so on, but then again with all these promising mmorpgs that are coming i'm not really holding my breath but want to at the same time cause many has failed when they were ones of the many prosiming ones.... i really think what's missing is of all the teams of developers that are making mmorpgs are only thinking of making money instead of making something truly special what themselfs would like to play themselfs too....
Well I think I got most of that, the problem is the developers used to be far closer to running the studios, now their vision is secondary to executives concerns about "this quarter" etc, the money always comes first. Even if that means a studios reputation gets damaged that is not as important as this quarters profits, they seemed to be prefer to gamble that the reputation can always be recovered. Maybe it can, and that's not such a gamble after all?
The problem is that traditional means of MMORPG revenue are no longer adequate. Subscription fees, when available to pay, are inadequate as they have been largely fixed for decades in the face of rising costs. Such is not perpetually sustainable. Supplemental revenue, or new profit models entirely, had to be found for these companies to endure.
What changes otherwise would you suggest, keeping in mind that subscription fees are for most part fixed?
If you shackle one type of finance of course you must turn to others, there is no law that says a subscription must neve go up. That said I would focus on cosmetic items, they are not P2W and a game can rake it in from them, some like Fortnite built an empire from that alone.
As if monetization hasn't been a top priority for literally every company making these games. The cash shops are the first thing working. Not to mention everything is now digital distribution. The people at the top making millions highlighting the pay disparity. The pure greed where they rake in money hand over fist.
Now they release early access as an excuse to not even pay actual testers and have the public do it for them.
If those subscription fees actually were inadequate they would have raised them. They made millions but wanted billions. They they made billions and still wanted more. The post you guys are responding to is right they care more about making money than the games themselves in a lot of cases.
I agree. But I'm not sure that I blame them for wanting the money. Making these expensive games is a big risk, so the reward has to be worth that risk.
However, your last sentence is spot on. The monetization these days hurts the games as games in a big way, and the only reason they get away with it is because "everyone's doing it." Many games, especially FtP games, would have failed if not for all of the monetization schemes. Most just aren't worth paying for, except to the Gamers that get suckered into CS sales because they have to have it the easy way.
Going back to Scot's point about Cosmetic Items not being PtW, what they are doing is taking things that could be in-game Rewards, and selling them instead. That is PtW, in my book. Good games become less than what they were because of CS's.
I don't like any of this CS stuff, in any way. I wonder how much these Whale based games make per account, including those that pay nothing? Each account is an expense, so looking at it in an all-inclusive way seems logical. How does what they make that way compare to a sub? Obviously, a sub-based game will have fewer accounts because of that sub, but I just wonder what the true math is on all of this.
Anyone defending these companies and saying they are not greedy is just laughable.
How about them lootboxes?
It isn't just MMORPGs that are in trouble from my perspective monetization in modern gaming for the most part is just predatory greed. I'd make the argument that the monetization is the thing that's not sustainable.
I wouldn't call cosmetics pay to win. It's well past that. Now it's pay to everything. Anything they could possibly put in a cash shop they will.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Comments
The amount lost making a PvE server, as consequence, is a fairly minimal amount of the overall user experience and focused around minimizing the potential for grief in general content.
This doesn't really mitigate what limited community interaction does exist in Albion for larger scale guild combat. Cooperative play would still exist for dungeon and instanced raid/GvG play. As established previously, ganking isn't competition. If you're fleeing from any potential danger and only engaging in combat when there's a strongly biased advantage, it's not competitive play.
This is also why it poses a threat to PvP servers. It'd be a ruleset tweak that'd cull the one thread of concern for many players, and since the PvP servers no longer persist for lack of a better option, they'd suffer headcount loss on those servers.
Conversely though, it could result in increased players in the game overall.
This is a big element of that migration people talk about at times. It also relates the fact we can't call our preferred niche what larger or more games have to do, because if they are seeking broader or more stable profit then some concessions and changes are inevitable.
This is also where I'd prefer if they branched out to explore more niches and mechanics, as opposed to the trend chasing that happens because of data driven development much of the time. Unexplored concepts are hard to quantify the value of otherwise. If they're gonna die prematurely as a title, would at least wanna see it because of a misfire in innovation instead of headbutting the same tired problems.
Yes this is my thoughts as well. Everyone has an opinion on whether PVE servers separate from PVP servers would work or not for the overall health of the game. Yet many of the dead games have refused to put in PVE servers. Games with separate PVP/PVE servers or areas seem to do just fine or thrive. In many of those games PVP is doing great. I would be there is more PVP going on in games like ESO and WoW than in most of the full PVP titles. Mainly because more people play those titles than full PVP titles. Either way there is still more PVP going on.
Its just crazy that so many dev teams wont find out what is best for their game for themselves instead of having some theory that it wont work for them. So they go out of business with the what if scenario unresolved.
Perfect example of this is New World. LIKE are you serious they wont have a separate PVE server. They theorize how it wont matter because PVP is already optional. Ummm it does matter. PVE players want to be on a server with people like themselves so they can be in guilds and get recognition for their acheivements. They dont want chats and accolades all going to PVP. Yet new world wont even test this with all their money LOL.
I get you're upset people aren't simply nodding their head along with your comments, but try and see some rationality to understand why your ideas are so flawed instead of attacking others. You need to learn how to take constructive criticism.
Otherwise the thread could be in trouble.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Pin the name mmo on the the package and they sell even more.
It does take analysis to determine why and whether or not anything needs doing or in fact can be done. That analysis has be deeper than "X sucks" as the explanation for everything, or anything really. It must also consider surrounding factors that while not part of such games have impact on the success of them. Baseless complaints and observations do nothing to shed light on the matter.
MMORPGs are getting more money than they had been, but have a declining percentage of online gaming revenue as a whole. The own they are holding is not what it once was.
As regular Gamers are getting tired of those games, and as more gamers realize the monetization scheme and pull out, there's a big fall coming.
Just my opinion.
Once upon a time....
MMORPGs have always been a business. They changed there practices over time to address the impact of rising costs combined with the effectively static subscription pricing they were constrained by. Without eventual demise of the genre was certain as the rising costs and static fees would have ultimately become untenable.
What many like to describe as schemes are survival strategies that must be adopted because unlike most businesses they can not raise prices in the face of increasing costs, making the subscription revenue they do get effectively worth less over time.
Would players be willing to pay a monthly fee adjusted for inflation so that the $15 fee of twenty some years ago be adjusted upward to have the same value in today's currency so that the supplementary means of revenue introduced could be removed?
So, subscriptions will largely remain as only part of a MMORPG's revenue at most rather the focal point they once were.
I don't think your math is on the mark about the number of people who play any game long term.
Quick stats as of today
https://vginsights.com/game/1332010
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- The "great recession"
- Smart phones
- Gen Z aging into a new video game market segment
The RecessionAnyway well from my option i think mmorpg has never look brighter than it has in years since we all really running out of mmorpg to play that is actually good or played the older ones too long that it's getting too old or so on, but then again with all these promising mmorpgs that are coming i'm not really holding my breath but want to at the same time cause many has failed when they were ones of the many prosiming ones.... i really think what's missing is of all the teams of developers that are making mmorpgs are only thinking of making money instead of making something truly special what themselfs would like to play themselfs too....
Hope for the future is good so long as it is kept in reason.
MMORPGs are operated by for profit companies, and as such have always been for profit. Claims otherwise have been and always will be fantasy.
What has changed over time is the methods by which they must seek profit, largely due to the subscription fees the market will bear not in any way keeping pace with their increasing costs over time, with some now not being willing to subscribe at all.
They have to and will make profit somehow. Their only option is permanent closure. Good luck with getting new MMORPGs should that come to pass with any of the major games in current operation.
The problem is that traditional means of MMORPG revenue are no longer adequate. Subscription fees, when available to pay, are inadequate as they have been largely fixed for decades in the face of rising costs. Such is not perpetually sustainable. Supplemental revenue, or new profit models entirely, had to be found for these companies to endure.
What changes otherwise would you suggest, keeping in mind that subscription fees are for most part fixed?
Now they release early access as an excuse to not even pay actual testers and have the public do it for them.
If those subscription fees actually were inadequate they would have raised them. They made millions but wanted billions. They they made billions and still wanted more. The post you guys are responding to is right they care more about making money than the games themselves in a lot of cases.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/However, your last sentence is spot on. The monetization these days hurts the games as games in a big way, and the only reason they get away with it is because "everyone's doing it."
Many games, especially FtP games, would have failed if not for all of the monetization schemes. Most just aren't worth paying for, except to the Gamers that get suckered into CS sales because they have to have it the easy way.
Going back to Scot's point about Cosmetic Items not being PtW, what they are doing is taking things that could be in-game Rewards, and selling them instead.
That is PtW, in my book.
Good games become less than what they were because of CS's.
I don't like any of this CS stuff, in any way.
I wonder how much these Whale based games make per account, including those that pay nothing? Each account is an expense, so looking at it in an all-inclusive way seems logical.
How does what they make that way compare to a sub?
Obviously, a sub-based game will have fewer accounts because of that sub, but I just wonder what the true math is on all of this.
Once upon a time....
https://gamerant.com/diablo-immortal-100000-cant-get-into-matches/
Diablo Immoral player spent 100k...
Thar she blows!!
Anyone defending these companies and saying they are not greedy is just laughable.
How about them lootboxes?
It isn't just MMORPGs that are in trouble from my perspective monetization in modern gaming for the most part is just predatory greed. I'd make the argument that the monetization is the thing that's not sustainable.
I wouldn't call cosmetics pay to win. It's well past that. Now it's pay to everything. Anything they could possibly put in a cash shop they will.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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