How is No Man's Sky's Player-built Blockchain Economy Working? | MMONFT | MMORPG.com

System · March 2023

How is No Man's Sky's Player-built Blockchain Economy Working? | MMONFT | MMORPG.com

No Man's Sky has a community-built blockchain economy. But it's not what you think. Phil takes a deep look into how that community is doing, and whether the player made economy is thriving, or diving.

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Angrakhan · March 2023

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

olepi · March 2023

Maybe I should check it out. I've got over 600 hours in the game and never bought or sold anything with/from anybody. I've maxed out the 4 billion limit for credits, and have piles of resources, multiple ships, etc. The Hub isn't needed at all to play.

Mendel · March 2023

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

mklinic · March 2023

500+ hours in and I hadn't heard of it or noticed anyone talking about it in game. Article makes it sounds interesting for those who use it. No desire to really get involved with it myself though.

That said, a player-to-player economy in NMS seems more about workarounds using the game mechanics. This workaround sounds interesting, but now I can't help but wonder what Hello Games might come up with, if anything, as they keep expanding the game.

Kyleran · March 2023

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

Perhaps there's no real game related benefits to distributed ledgers and blockchain that is superior enough to currently existing tech outside of financial, hence the focus is always on making money somehow.

TLDR: Games don't need or benefit from what crypto, blockchain or NFT tech offer unless making money off of them is a goal.

If so, definitely not my goal when playing games.

WhiteLantern · March 2023

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by humans.

Fixed.

olepi · March 2023

Kyleran said:

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

Perhaps there's no real game related benefits to distributed ledgers and blockchain that is superior enough to currently existing tech outside of financial, hence the focus is always on making money somehow.

TLDR: Games don't need or benefit from what crypto, blockchain or NFT tech offer unless making money off of them is a goal.

If so, definitely not my goal when playing games.

There is no game benefit to trading at all in NMS. There is no economy. You can play the game with settings where everything is free and no combat, if you want. Even on normal, with combat and requirements for resources to make things, it's very easy to max it all out. I've never seen any kind of economy in the game.

Perhaps for role-playing purposes. No economy based on supply and demand. Supply is infinite.

philidips · March 2023

olepi said:

Kyleran said:

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

Perhaps there's no real game related benefits to distributed ledgers and blockchain that is superior enough to currently existing tech outside of financial, hence the focus is always on making money somehow.

TLDR: Games don't need or benefit from what crypto, blockchain or NFT tech offer unless making money off of them is a goal.

If so, definitely not my goal when playing games.

There is no game benefit to trading at all in NMS. There is no economy. You can play the game with settings where everything is free and no combat, if you want. Even on normal, with combat and requirements for resources to make things, it's very easy to max it all out. I've never seen any kind of economy in the game.

Perhaps for role-playing purposes. No economy based on supply and demand. Supply is infinite.

Thought I would weigh in!

I would argue that there is supply in the form of player time. Even the most dedicated NMS player can only allocate so much of their day, and many people would rather be doing more exciting things than do mundane labour grinding resources. Even if the galaxy is practically infinite, it doesn't mean that people won't pay a convenience fee for someone else's labour.

Slapshot1188 · March 2023

philidips said:

olepi said:

Kyleran said:

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

Perhaps there's no real game related benefits to distributed ledgers and blockchain that is superior enough to currently existing tech outside of financial, hence the focus is always on making money somehow.

TLDR: Games don't need or benefit from what crypto, blockchain or NFT tech offer unless making money off of them is a goal.

If so, definitely not my goal when playing games.

There is no game benefit to trading at all in NMS. There is no economy. You can play the game with settings where everything is free and no combat, if you want. Even on normal, with combat and requirements for resources to make things, it's very easy to max it all out. I've never seen any kind of economy in the game.

Perhaps for role-playing purposes. No economy based on supply and demand. Supply is infinite.

Thought I would weigh in!

I would argue that there is supply in the form of player time. Even the most dedicated NMS player can only allocate so much of their day, and many people would rather be doing more exciting things than do mundane labour grinding resources. Even if the galaxy is practically infinite, it doesn't mean that people won't pay a convenience fee for someone else's labour.

Yet there are ways in game to just respawn ships worth tens of millions of credits, and to use those credits to buy out resources and crash a systems economy and resell at incredible profits. Not through any kind of cheating at all. Its just part of the game. Its kind of what made me stop playing. Stuff just got too easy and pointless. Limitless money = limitless resources.

Little to no labor required.

Kyleran · March 2023

Slapshot1188 said:

philidips said:

olepi said:

Kyleran said:

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

Perhaps there's no real game related benefits to distributed ledgers and blockchain that is superior enough to currently existing tech outside of financial, hence the focus is always on making money somehow.

TLDR: Games don't need or benefit from what crypto, blockchain or NFT tech offer unless making money off of them is a goal.

If so, definitely not my goal when playing games.

There is no game benefit to trading at all in NMS. There is no economy. You can play the game with settings where everything is free and no combat, if you want. Even on normal, with combat and requirements for resources to make things, it's very easy to max it all out. I've never seen any kind of economy in the game.

Perhaps for role-playing purposes. No economy based on supply and demand. Supply is infinite.

Thought I would weigh in!

I would argue that there is supply in the form of player time. Even the most dedicated NMS player can only allocate so much of their day, and many people would rather be doing more exciting things than do mundane labour grinding resources. Even if the galaxy is practically infinite, it doesn't mean that people won't pay a convenience fee for someone else's labour.

Yet there are ways in game to just respawn ships worth tens of millions of credits, and to use those credits to buy out resources and crash a systems economy and resell at incredible profits. Not through any kind of cheating at all. Its just part of the game. Its kind of what made me stop playing. Stuff just got too easy and pointless. Limitless money = limitless resources.

Little to no labor required.

Been my experience whenever one starts really gaming the system, whether cheating or otherwise it tend to suck the fun out of most any game which is why I rarely bother reading up much about them before hand. (Or even after I've started playing)

After six months in NW I still mostly blunder around playing rather inefficiently as all hell, but I still find joy (aka goals to achieve) in it while many others are long gone.

Mendel · March 2023

philidips said:

olepi said:

Kyleran said:

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

Perhaps there's no real game related benefits to distributed ledgers and blockchain that is superior enough to currently existing tech outside of financial, hence the focus is always on making money somehow.

TLDR: Games don't need or benefit from what crypto, blockchain or NFT tech offer unless making money off of them is a goal.

If so, definitely not my goal when playing games.

There is no game benefit to trading at all in NMS. There is no economy. You can play the game with settings where everything is free and no combat, if you want. Even on normal, with combat and requirements for resources to make things, it's very easy to max it all out. I've never seen any kind of economy in the game.

Perhaps for role-playing purposes. No economy based on supply and demand. Supply is infinite.

Thought I would weigh in!

I would argue that there is supply in the form of player time. Even the most dedicated NMS player can only allocate so much of their day, and many people would rather be doing more exciting things than do mundane labour grinding resources. Even if the galaxy is practically infinite, it doesn't mean that people won't pay a convenience fee for someone else's labour.

Generally, players don't value time another player puts into a game. In real life, people pay doctors for the time they've invested into learning medicine. Usually at a premium price. People hesitate to pay people for learning in a game. Especially so when 'learning' only equates to time played.

maskedweasel · March 2023

There are plenty of novel and worthwhile uses for Blockchain in gaming.

In this article, they are using a testnet to pay out currency to other players and pay for goods and services in game, but they basically are selling these things on what would be considered a gray market...

The interesting thing about utilizing testnet is that there's no transaction or gas fees, and you can't cash out into fiat or anything that would be able to be used as a payment... Anywhere.

That means this currency is essentially monopoly money instituted as a way to reward and pay players in game, and only in game for the things they provide each other.

That's a unique way to use Blockchain that isn't a cash grab, and can't be used as a rug pull.

But, because it's Blockchain, and used as a currency, people automatically think the worst.

It's basically like, you don't want Blockchain if people can sell goods for real money, you don't like Blockchain if they can sell game items for fake money, you don't like Blockchain if it can run online games without servers, if it's Blockchain it must be wrong.

But, it's really not. I think it sucks that the crypto and nft abuse when it started to rise has really hurt the technology from a PR standpoint. Its no wonder the tech isn't being advertised as much, but it's still being adopted.

mklinic · March 2023

maskedweasel said:

But, because it's Blockchain, and used as a currency, people automatically think the worst.

I don't think the general tone of responses so far really supports that interpretation. The reactions seem to have been largely 'meh' or, in the context of NMS and its economy (or lack of), 'what's the point?' Compared to other blockchain discussions around here, this has been down-right civil :P

I guess my view on it would be: Why did it have to be done with blockchain and what value did blockchain specifically bring? That said, even if it was done with a different technology, I'm not sure my own reaction would be much different to it (again, given the context of NMS and its mechanics).

olepi · March 2023

philidips said:

olepi said:

Kyleran said:

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

Perhaps there's no real game related benefits to distributed ledgers and blockchain that is superior enough to currently existing tech outside of financial, hence the focus is always on making money somehow.

TLDR: Games don't need or benefit from what crypto, blockchain or NFT tech offer unless making money off of them is a goal.

If so, definitely not my goal when playing games.

There is no game benefit to trading at all in NMS. There is no economy. You can play the game with settings where everything is free and no combat, if you want. Even on normal, with combat and requirements for resources to make things, it's very easy to max it all out. I've never seen any kind of economy in the game.

Perhaps for role-playing purposes. No economy based on supply and demand. Supply is infinite.

Thought I would weigh in!

I would argue that there is supply in the form of player time. Even the most dedicated NMS player can only allocate so much of their day, and many people would rather be doing more exciting things than do mundane labour grinding resources. Even if the galaxy is practically infinite, it doesn't mean that people won't pay a convenience fee for someone else's labour.

It takes a little time to set up a mine, but after that it is automatic. The mining goes on after you log off. Come back tomorrow and the warehouse is full, takes a couple clicks to collect it. Same with gas extraction, it is automatic. So no grinding of resources.

Even with farming there is a harvest all button.

It might take a few minutes to make an item, I can make 10-15 of the top $30million each items in a few minutes. So $450 million in 15 minutes or less. Not much of a grind to get a few billion, and there's nothing to spend it on. That's why there is no economy to speak of.

The fun part is exploring to find the best mining spot, or gas extraction spot, or bulding your bases.

Uwakionna · March 2023

They basically built their own currency for roleplay, and the currency went the same way regular game currency does because its, well, a game. You could have used any method of creating and tracking a currency in this context. Blockchain lent no greater function to it.

It was mechanically useless from the get go.

Ironically it's worse than relying on the barter economy inherently in the game because you're having to interact with one community using their special money, while the majority of the community are operating on an entirely different economy.

Slapshot1188 · March 2023

Kyleran said:

Slapshot1188 said:

philidips said:

olepi said:

Kyleran said:

Mendel said:

Angrakhan said:

Surely there's a more interesting use of Blockchain than creating crypto currency out of it and yet here we are.

The lack of any thing other than crypto coins surely points to the lack of innovation and ingenuity exhibited by the development teams that inhabit the MMORPG space.

Perhaps there's no real game related benefits to distributed ledgers and blockchain that is superior enough to currently existing tech outside of financial, hence the focus is always on making money somehow.

TLDR: Games don't need or benefit from what crypto, blockchain or NFT tech offer unless making money off of them is a goal.

If so, definitely not my goal when playing games.

There is no game benefit to trading at all in NMS. There is no economy. You can play the game with settings where everything is free and no combat, if you want. Even on normal, with combat and requirements for resources to make things, it's very easy to max it all out. I've never seen any kind of economy in the game.

Perhaps for role-playing purposes. No economy based on supply and demand. Supply is infinite.

Thought I would weigh in!

I would argue that there is supply in the form of player time. Even the most dedicated NMS player can only allocate so much of their day, and many people would rather be doing more exciting things than do mundane labour grinding resources. Even if the galaxy is practically infinite, it doesn't mean that people won't pay a convenience fee for someone else's labour.

Yet there are ways in game to just respawn ships worth tens of millions of credits, and to use those credits to buy out resources and crash a systems economy and resell at incredible profits. Not through any kind of cheating at all. Its just part of the game. Its kind of what made me stop playing. Stuff just got too easy and pointless. Limitless money = limitless resources.

Little to no labor required.

Been my experience whenever one starts really gaming the system, whether cheating or otherwise it tend to suck the fun out of most any game which is why I rarely bother reading up much about them before hand. (Or even after I've started playing)

After six months in NW I still mostly blunder around playing rather inefficiently as all hell, but I still find joy (aka goals to achieve) in it while many others are long gone.

Yeah but this is really not going out of your way. If you want to play the economics part of the game, it's designed so that you get a resource from system A where it is plentiful and then sell it in B where it is rare. Economics 101. But once you have even just a decent level of money you can buy out resources from whole systems and crash the economy. Its really a rudimentary implementation of economy. And to top it off, they have ways in game by using advanced refiners (or whatever NMS calls them) you can end up with more of the resource than you started.

Its a fun game. Like it alot, but its economic implementation is very basic. Im going from memory but I think you can just take cobalt and add some mineral to it (super cheap on the AH) to make Condensed Cobalt (or advanced, some prefix). You can then simply refeed that advanced version back into the machine to produce multiples of the base cobalt. This exists for many resources. You do not need to go looking for these things, just basic gameplay will reveal them as you go. Now some folks maybe would never see that and think, wow... infinite money. But after playing a few weeks these kinds of things are everywhere.

[Deleted User] · March 2023

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Mendel · March 2023

Slapshot1188 said:

Yeah but this is really not going out of your way. If you want to play the economics part of the game, it's designed so that you get a resource from system A where it is plentiful and then sell it in B where it is rare. Economics 101. But once you have even just a decent level of money you can buy out resources from whole systems and crash the economy. Its really a rudimentary implementation of economy. And to top it off, they have ways in game by using advanced refiners (or whatever NMS calls them) you can end up with more of the resource than you started.

Its a fun game. Like it alot, but its economic implementation is very basic. Im going from memory but I think you can just take cobalt and add some mineral to it (super cheap on the AH) to make Condensed Cobalt (or advanced, some prefix). You can then simply refeed that advanced version back into the machine to produce multiples of the base cobalt. This exists for many resources. You do not need to go looking for these things, just basic gameplay will reveal them as you go. Now some folks maybe would never see that and think, wow... infinite money. But after playing a few weeks these kinds of things are everywhere.

That 'exploit' (working as implemented?) doesn't bother me as much as the fact that the only real reason to mine is to build things. If you're more interested in exploring than crafting, the entire game feels very shallow. There's only so many alien language pods that can teach a single word at a time to keep the interest going. There's no way (that I remember) to make and name great mountains or ancient river valleys. The Geologic, Flora, and Fauna 'discoveries' are great, but really only an end to themselves.

bcbully · March 2023

mklinic said:

maskedweasel said:

But, because it's Blockchain, and used as a currency, people automatically think the worst.

I don't think the general tone of responses so far really supports that interpretation. The reactions seem to have been largely 'meh' or, in the context of NMS and its economy (or lack of), 'what's the point?' Compared to other blockchain discussions around here, this has been down-right civil :P

I guess my view on it would be: Why did it have to be done with blockchain and what value did blockchain specifically bring? That said, even if it was done with a different technology, I'm not sure my own reaction would be much different to it (again, given the context of NMS and its mechanics).

Peer to peer instant settlement. No banks, no CC, or any other part of the tier two system.

mklinic · March 2023

bcbully said:

Peer to peer instant settlement. No banks, no CC, or any other part of the tier two system.

The currency seems to have no monetary value by design and can't be cashed out. So not sure the no banks, no CC, etc is really a factor. Crazy as it may seem, no one is trying to make money on this.

This is why I tried to frame my response within the scope of this particular game and where blockchain brought anything of particular value vs doing the same thing with any other technology. It seems even a bit more broken since the things you are trading the currency for aren't on chain so you're not really getting the 'ownership' benefits that have been touted in countless other threads about the greatness of [things]...

In short: Within the scope of NMS, a generic statement about what you feel to be the benefits of blockchain doesn't really seem relevant.

finefluff · April 2023

Seems like something that's just for fun and harmless (unlike other craptocurrency). It's not from the developer of NMS either. Maybe roleplaying and creating a type of meta game is the only thing crypto can be good for.

Nilden · April 2023

This has to be one of the most useless and pointless things I have ever seen trying to clamor for relevancy surrounding a video game.

Anything else about this game would have been more interesting. The base building, the ships, space, the procedural generation, the updates, etc. Even the actual in-game economy.

I'm glad I can completely and utterly ignore this with absolutely zero effect on me playing the game. Which just goes to show how pointless and useless it is. Ever more hilarious is that you wouldn't actually even need blockchain to do any of this. It's at the point where this whole blockchain, crypto, NFT crap is just annoyingly desperate cringe trying to inject itself into gaming.

maskedweasel · April 2023

Nilden said:

This has to be one of the most useless and pointless things I have ever seen trying to clamor for relevancy surrounding a video game.

Anything else about this game would have been more interesting. The base building, the ships, space, the procedural generation, the updates, etc. Even the actual in-game economy.

I'm glad I can completely and utterly ignore this with absolutely zero effect on me playing the game. Which just goes to show how pointless and useless it is. Ever more hilarious is that you wouldn't actually even need blockchain to do any of this. It's at the point where this whole blockchain, crypto, NFT crap is just annoyingly desperate cringe trying to inject itself into gaming.

Where are all the other third party currency projects out there?

Akulas · April 2023

I just use it to generate a token whenever a worker punches in to make sure the workers are at work when they say they are as the token can't be replicated. Or as a cheaper alternative to storing peoples information like names and bank details as even if it gets hacked it's unlikely to be compromised.

Uwakionna · April 2023

maskedweasel said:

Nilden said:

This has to be one of the most useless and pointless things I have ever seen trying to clamor for relevancy surrounding a video game.

Anything else about this game would have been more interesting. The base building, the ships, space, the procedural generation, the updates, etc. Even the actual in-game economy.

I'm glad I can completely and utterly ignore this with absolutely zero effect on me playing the game. Which just goes to show how pointless and useless it is. Ever more hilarious is that you wouldn't actually even need blockchain to do any of this. It's at the point where this whole blockchain, crypto, NFT crap is just annoyingly desperate cringe trying to inject itself into gaming.

Where are all the other third party currency projects out there?

I mean, Pippi for Conan Exiles has it's own third party currency mechanic that's more customizable on a per-server basis...

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How is No Man's Sky's Player-built Blockchain Economy Working? | MMONFT | MMORPG.com

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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How is No Man's Sky's Player-built Blockchain Economy Working? | MMONFT | MMORPG.com

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV