Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
Well, like I said, the souls games are action combat games, you just have to "tab" to an enemy to lock on to them. You don't have to as you can still attack them without it but it can sometimes make it easier.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
That is a valid point as well. In the video I posted yesterday, there was so many auto playing chars. Often the guys character would not get to the mob in time when 2-3 chars were already attacking it. Much like gold farmers. I cant count how many times I gave up on a quest because gold farmers were set up camp where I needed to go. Everyone auto playing will make this worse then gold farming.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
I can't really blame them.
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Think there is a notable difference to be had in the systems mentioned. Tab targeting and "Z-targeting" are not the same in their impact on the player. Games like Dark Souls use z-targeting to put a focus on an enemy, altering how your character moves to focus on them as well as your camera's focus. This does give you the mechanical advantage of assisted aim lock, but it also is a more direct trade in context awareness to fixate on the present enemy.
Tab target does not carry that same design. It puts a focus on a target for the character to commit actions to, but character movement and facing along with player's camera movement and facing, operates independent of what target is being locked onto.
There is an intentional trade being done in z-targeting that puts a tactical awareness element into the choice to use the targeting mechanic.
EDIT: In the context of Throne and Liberty, I'm pretty indifferent to the notion of them to be using tab target. It's on some level a mobile game and caters to a lot of automation to begin with. Tab target is not really a contributing concern to that.
Will note, I do not enjoy tab target myself. Z-targeting or soft-locking tends to be the closest I still enjoy. I do not hold that to mean tab targeting is itself 'bad', just not my preference.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
I can't really blame them.
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
I don't agree at all. One is a case that has no good fix, the other is a case that doesn't have to be created at all.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
I can't really blame them.
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
It's rare that people ever take their time leveling and enjoying a game
these days. People will pay for it sadly. Everyone rushes to end game to play in the competitive
aspects of the game; competitive PvP, Raids for top tier gear.
Even in swg we had macros for afk grinding mobs.
Most people could grind out an elite profession in a few days. Some couldn't be bothered so they went to ebay looking for either fully leveled toons or leveling services. Sad truth
few will admit. Grinding sucks and no one likes it anymore apparently; except for a few old curmudgeons here.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
Well, like I said, the souls games are action combat games, you just have to "tab" to an enemy to lock on to them. You don't have to as you can still attack them without it but it can sometimes make it easier.
That brings up a good point. There are a few different variations or meanings to tab-target. It can have soft and hard locks on the target. It can be select only without any lock. A game can have action combat and tab-targeting with hard locks.
Maybe it gets mixed up with RPG/RNG style combat with "to hit" calculations because lots of first and second gen MMOs combined both of those designs as almost a genre defining default.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
I can't really blame them.
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
It's rare that people ever take their time leveling and enjoying a game
these days. People will pay for it sadly. Everyone rushes to end game to play in the competitive
aspects of the game; competitive PvP, Raids for top tier gear.
Even in swg we had macros for afk grinding mobs.
Most people could grind out an elite profession in a few days. Some couldn't be bothered so they went to ebay looking for either fully leveled toons or leveling services. Sad truth
few will admit. Grinding sucks and no one likes it anymore apparently; except for a few old curmudgeons here.
And that's it, in a nutshell. It's not that there aren't gamers who want to enjoy just playing the game, they just don't have many options and may not like those few they have, for other reasons.
Most games seem to only want the level grind as a means to charge for CS items.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
I can't really blame them.
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
It's rare that people ever take their time leveling and enjoying a game
these days. People will pay for it sadly. Everyone rushes to end game to play in the competitive
aspects of the game; competitive PvP, Raids for top tier gear.
Even in swg we had macros for afk grinding mobs.
Most people could grind out an elite profession in a few days. Some couldn't be bothered so they went to ebay looking for either fully leveled toons or leveling services. Sad truth
few will admit. Grinding sucks and no one likes it anymore apparently; except for a few old curmudgeons here.
And that's it, in a nutshell. It's not that there aren't gamers who want to enjoy just playing the game, they just don't have many options and may not like those few they have, for other reasons.
Most games seem to only want the level grind as a means to charge for CS items.
That hasn't really changed though. It isn't new. First gen MMOs had massive grind and used glacially slow leveling to keep people paying their monthly rent check. It wasn't about quality or enjoying the ride. People leveled as fast as they could, as fast as the horrendous xp curve would let them. It's been about the money since the beginning, they're just getting a lot better at it now.
Tab targeting is for 8mans or battlegroups who take on massive amounts of mobs in both pve or pvp. Its tactical and awesome. I love tab targeting. You can choose who you want to target and not follow your leaders' targets.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
I can't really blame them.
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
It's rare that people ever take their time leveling and enjoying a game
these days. People will pay for it sadly. Everyone rushes to end game to play in the competitive
aspects of the game; competitive PvP, Raids for top tier gear.
Even in swg we had macros for afk grinding mobs.
Most people could grind out an elite profession in a few days. Some couldn't be bothered so they went to ebay looking for either fully leveled toons or leveling services. Sad truth
few will admit. Grinding sucks and no one likes it anymore apparently; except for a few old curmudgeons here.
And that's it, in a nutshell. It's not that there aren't gamers who want to enjoy just playing the game, they just don't have many options and may not like those few they have, for other reasons.
Most games seem to only want the level grind as a means to charge for CS items.
That hasn't really changed though. It isn't new. First gen MMOs had massive grind and used glacially slow leveling to keep people paying their monthly rent check. It wasn't about quality or enjoying the ride. People leveled as fast as they could, as fast as the horrendous xp curve would let them. It's been about the money since the beginning, they're just getting a lot better at it now.
They didn't have CSs in the beginning. UO, EQ, AC, WoW, DAoC, I don't think there was a CS in sight and there was a lot of negativity to even the idea. I can't remember where the first CS came along exactly, but it wasn't anywhere near the beginning. Along with the first FtP game rings a bell.
Edit, I just re-read your post and see what you meant. I think I still have to disagree, though. They were making games for the journey, but the design actually promoted the rush to "end game." I see that as more of a mistake than anything else.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
I can't really blame them.
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
It's rare that people ever take their time leveling and enjoying a game
these days. People will pay for it sadly. Everyone rushes to end game to play in the competitive
aspects of the game; competitive PvP, Raids for top tier gear.
Even in swg we had macros for afk grinding mobs.
Most people could grind out an elite profession in a few days. Some couldn't be bothered so they went to ebay looking for either fully leveled toons or leveling services. Sad truth
few will admit. Grinding sucks and no one likes it anymore apparently; except for a few old curmudgeons here.
And that's it, in a nutshell. It's not that there aren't gamers who want to enjoy just playing the game, they just don't have many options and may not like those few they have, for other reasons.
Most games seem to only want the level grind as a means to charge for CS items.
That hasn't really changed though. It isn't new. First gen MMOs had massive grind and used glacially slow leveling to keep people paying their monthly rent check. It wasn't about quality or enjoying the ride. People leveled as fast as they could, as fast as the horrendous xp curve would let them. It's been about the money since the beginning, they're just getting a lot better at it now.
They didn't have CSs in the beginning. UO, EQ, AC, WoW, DAoC, I don't think there was a CS in sight and there was a lot of negativity to even the idea. I can't remember where the first CS came along exactly, but it was anywhere near the beginning.
Agreed, but there is a bigger point. It was always about making more money. Revenue models started out simple and have become more sophisticated as software, services, and technology have evolved. It isn't surprising to me, in a hyper aggressive capitalist society, that revenue generation is such a high priority. The industry will continue to push until they hit some combination of economic, cultural, and regulatory walls.
Agreed, but there is a bigger point. It was always about making more money. Revenue models started out simple and have become more sophisticated as software, services, and technology have evolved. It isn't surprising to me, in a hyper aggressive capitalist society, that revenue generation is such a high priority. The industry will continue to push until they hit some combination of economic, cultural, and regulatory walls.
Its not just about the money, if it was, then the new MMO's would be super popular, making tons of cash, with tons of happy customers willing to pay more. Instead the genre is practically dead with a few old games barely hanging on, doing everything they can to draw in someone.
Your money arguement just doesnt hold up to me.
Games that generate larger and larger customer bases on each release, with larger and larger revenue sales would be an example of a company going after the money.
These businesses should be all about the money, thats what a business is supposed to be about. Instead they are moving away from that model and building games they like instead of what the customers like. This is why they flop.
Maybe they lack talent? Maybe they lack ideas? Maybe the higher ups with the money are clueless? Most likely they fired all the real managers and this is what it looks like when people without management skills are running the show.
Not sure what the issue is. Souls games are tab targeting and still "action oriented."
I personally love souls combat.
I personally love tab targeting, Im a little tried of action combat myself. My hope is the auto combat is not something that happens in the West copy of the game. That will be a deal breaker for me. I just have no desire to try and compete with players that auto play 24/7 to advance their chars. I just dont want me hand forced to use the same tactic and then wonder how to play my char at cap.
The dirty secret is that we are already competing against people that use botting in many games to farm XP, loot, resources or whatever. But I agree it's kind of like gold farming and buying and selling stuff. It used to be taboo and shady and against the rules, but then developers embraced it as another way to make money and just opened cash shops to "legally" buy your advantages.
I can't really blame them.
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
It's rare that people ever take their time leveling and enjoying a game
these days. People will pay for it sadly. Everyone rushes to end game to play in the competitive
aspects of the game; competitive PvP, Raids for top tier gear.
Even in swg we had macros for afk grinding mobs.
Most people could grind out an elite profession in a few days. Some couldn't be bothered so they went to ebay looking for either fully leveled toons or leveling services. Sad truth
few will admit. Grinding sucks and no one likes it anymore apparently; except for a few old curmudgeons here.
And that's it, in a nutshell. It's not that there aren't gamers who want to enjoy just playing the game, they just don't have many options and may not like those few they have, for other reasons.
Most games seem to only want the level grind as a means to charge for CS items.
That hasn't really changed though. It isn't new. First gen MMOs had massive grind and used glacially slow leveling to keep people paying their monthly rent check. It wasn't about quality or enjoying the ride. People leveled as fast as they could, as fast as the horrendous xp curve would let them. It's been about the money since the beginning, they're just getting a lot better at it now.
They didn't have CSs in the beginning. UO, EQ, AC, WoW, DAoC, I don't think there was a CS in sight and there was a lot of negativity to even the idea. I can't remember where the first CS came along exactly, but it was anywhere near the beginning.
Agreed, but there is a bigger point. It was always about making more money. Revenue models started out simple and have become more sophisticated as software, services, and technology have evolved. It isn't surprising to me, in a hyper aggressive capitalist society, that revenue generation is such a high priority. The industry will continue to push until they hit some combination of economic, cultural, and regulatory walls.
I just want to point out that I added to my post you are quoting.
Also: This isn't really a hyper aggressive capitalist society. It's a natural thing that things go off the rails sometimes. Then, the walls you mentioned knock them back. It's perfectly normal.
We're there, but the industry doesn't want to advertise it. It's happening more in the West than the East, I think, at this point. Gamers are getting tired of the current state of affairs. This tiredness is only going to grow and show more the affects, without change.
Those revenue models are actually a symptom of this, if you ask me.
I'd like to see some games with more realistic mechanics.
Thing like tab targeting break games. For example, you cannot have the fighters in the front protect the mage in the back because people can just tab -> tab -> tab -> until the game finds the target and *blamo* - you just called down fire on someone you cannot even see.
I don't think the issue with Throne and Liberty is that it uses tab targeting, but rather its implementation of tab targeting is so clunky.
For instance you can literally just not get hit by melee if you just keep walking. Nearly every attack freezes you in place, there is no sense of momentum or weight, it is literally pre WoW style combat.
I think tab targeting is a fine way to do combat and I would like to see more developers really innovate on it.
But you can tell this was combat system was designed with the autoplay and mobile in mind so I am not sure what can be done to fix it other than keep the mobile version as is, hold the PC release and retool the combat then release a different PC version. Not sure that is likely to happen.
I'd like to see some games with more realistic mechanics.
Thing like tab targeting break games. For example, you cannot have the fighters in the front protect the mage in the back because people can just tab -> tab -> tab -> until the game finds the target and *blamo* - you just called down fire on someone you cannot even see.
That could be solved by physics checks, but likely at the cost of processing power.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Agreed, but there is a bigger point. It was always about making more money. Revenue models started out simple and have become more sophisticated as software, services, and technology have evolved. It isn't surprising to me, in a hyper aggressive capitalist society, that revenue generation is such a high priority. The industry will continue to push until they hit some combination of economic, cultural, and regulatory walls.
Its not just about the money, if it was, then the new MMO's would be super popular, making tons of cash, with tons of happy customers willing to pay more. Instead the genre is practically dead with a few old games barely hanging on, doing everything they can to draw in someone.
Your money arguement just doesnt hold up to me.
Games that generate larger and larger customer bases on each release, with larger and larger revenue sales would be an example of a company going after the money.
These businesses should be all about the money, thats what a business is supposed to be about. Instead they are moving away from that model and building games they like instead of what the customers like. This is why they flop.
Maybe they lack talent? Maybe they lack ideas? Maybe the higher ups with the money are clueless? Most likely they fired all the real managers and this is what it looks like when people without management skills are running the show.
For profit games are always about the money, but while in many cases they are primarily if not solely about that it doesn't apply to each and every one. Those only partly about profit are obviously not always going to make optimal business decisions but that allows their choices to be better suited to their other concerns. Whether this should or not be doesn't really change that in some cases it is so.
Agreed, but there is a bigger point. It was always about making more money. Revenue models started out simple and have become more sophisticated as software, services, and technology have evolved. It isn't surprising to me, in a hyper aggressive capitalist society, that revenue generation is such a high priority. The industry will continue to push until they hit some combination of economic, cultural, and regulatory walls.
Its not just about the money, if it was, then the new MMO's would be super popular, making tons of cash, with tons of happy customers willing to pay more. Instead the genre is practically dead with a few old games barely hanging on, doing everything they can to draw in someone.
Your money arguement just doesnt hold up to me.
Games that generate larger and larger customer bases on each release, with larger and larger revenue sales would be an example of a company going after the money.
These businesses should be all about the money, thats what a business is supposed to be about. Instead they are moving away from that model and building games they like instead of what the customers like. This is why they flop.
Maybe they lack talent? Maybe they lack ideas? Maybe the higher ups with the money are clueless? Most likely they fired all the real managers and this is what it looks like when people without management skills are running the show.
No, major developers just quit making new MMORPGs for the most part since they are too much investment/risk to bother with.
Even Blizzard is rumored to be working on a lower cost survival title, Funcom and others did the same years ago.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I had a change of mind in regards to Throne and Liberty. I said in the opening thread that Throne and Liberty was going nowhere, based on my perception of NCSoft lack of evolutionary design implementations. I was wrong about that, but I said that months before the first public opportunity to see people playing.
I will explain, what I perceive now.
1. Autoplay is an evolution. It is necessary. It is the future. Its a safety net. Its life for the player and those around him, in all aspects. Its wisdom. Throne and Liberty developers from NCSoft were doing this years ago and have learned that resting and allowing players to rest is good, is necessary and its profitable. It allows hundreds of psychological processes that are superior and evolutionary, conforting, stable, flexible. By all means, its even Divine to have autoplay feature, specially in a true massive scale of time and effort, longevity game. Its an evolution of what Lineage 1 and 2 were and the experience they gave us and what it required of us as players. We perceived it as healthy at the time, but nowadays that same experience would be sick, causing us to be sick, and its plague ridden with all kinds of prejudices and fallacies, all understandable, same with prejudices against consoles, monetization, mobile, nfts. These are all structural sedimentary apparent natural increments of evolutionary design. It just take the fine tunning, the elegant intelligence to make it work and I think Throne and Liberty has that. It has layers of thought in it, its not just a simple binary "lets have it", not a simplistic system, not void of what a game design must have, which is to think the end from the beggining.
2. Gameplay choice is a Trade off, currently in 2023 technology, economical, development levels. I saw Unreal Tournament modded with 400 bots, I saw Firefall with near a hundred people in game events, I saw Battlefields, I saw Planetside, I saw all the popular battle royales with a 100 people. Isaw modded games of the past like Freelancer multiplayer with near a hundred players, I saw Space Cowboys/Flysis/Ace Online with hundreds of players. I am mentioning the games that have the "Action" at standard or above standard levels. The dream is to have hundreds of players with action gameplay working smooth, stable, without lab, without the visual pollution and the confusion of hundreds of people casting spells/shootings weapons, etc. If this can be done currently and I believe it can be done, WE CANNOT REQUIRE OF NCSoft to design and deliver this. We cannot realistically require that from any company that currently exists in the market. Its in the future. Now I could mention all the massive scale fantasy, melee, medieval or sci-fi isometric or top down MMORPGs of the past that did provide the Massive Scale 100+ players battles, from the very own Lineage to Warhammer Online, Dark Ages of Camelot, Shadowbane, Rising Force Online, etc and many other smaller, less well known games, that had that in some working measure. Even EVE Online, which we often forget, or the most recent attempts like New World instanced pvp modes which are arguably golden standard, but still not defensably "epic or massive" in scale or often enough, or well seasoned enough, or well balanced enough, and so on and so forth, despite the technical achievement of having a few dozen people fighting a moba like game mode in New World.
So what about the Gameplay of Throne and Liberty being Tab Target and the Tradeoff I am speaking about? That they do manage to provide the hundreds of players on screen fighting. You want to experience that? You want. If you played the games I mentioned above, you know its worth the tradeoff for a significant portion of potential players, both old and new. Yes, you can always play a small scale action based high skill based melee hybrid MMO, but in New World at some point in the development they made it so you couldnt fight 5 players alone with your archer and win, even if you were highly skilled, intelligent, knowledgeable, etc. So in many games, that do have action and small scale PVP, even if its on open world, it is still not as fun as the epic massive scale.
Many people mention Black Desert, but its visual pollution, confusion, a clusterfuck, too fast. Just like the problem with Warframe that caused the developers to make Soul Frame.
The idea is the experience of pvp has to be degusted, tasted, chewed, thought, measured, clean, polished. Not a button mashing with sperging of seizure inducing sickness. On small skirmishes, those games work, but THEY ARE LIMITED to that, "1 x 1"s, small skirmishes. Skillfull action based dueling is fun, "4x4" is fun, etc. But EPIC MASSIVE SCALE IS ANOTHER DEGREE OF FUN. Throne and Liberty kept that essence from Lineage, that is good, we need that, the kids nowadays need to feel and experience that.
Throne and Liberty is a juggernaut of popularity built solid on a company that is specialized in delivering that, THEY ARE SUCCESFULL. Their earnings are on billions of dollars, they are rock solid. No amount of scorning from us or the west will cause them to fail suddenly. They are not on a "spiral of descent" either. These 12 years of so they are working on this game, its actually all the 20+ years they have been working on this MMORPG field in the industry. It is believeable that these TRADE OFF AND COMPROMISES and these CHOICES THEY HAVE MADE are actually THE RIGHT ONES!!!
Its an improvement upon everything they have made. They are going to LEAD in the wisdom of having Autoplay for their THOUSAND HOURS LONGEVITY game. They are going to Lead, because THE OTHER GAMES COMPETING WITH THEM DONT HAVE THAT. Its a genious play. Look around, everything mediocrity, not even worth to play the actiony ones, much less sacrifice your life (time commitment to a new MMORPG) to the sure disappointment. Throne and Liberty is filled with safety nets, safety nets against bots (players autoplay eat bots alive, diluting their potential/earnings), safety net against black market, safety net against people quitting for "real life reasons", imagine that. They circunvented with their design even the meta aspects of social gaming. Look around, everything irrelevant, everyone only cares about the new games so they move like a flock of birds to the next game, unable to find a place to call home, unable to use one game as a plataform for long term, to add it as an asset in their life. Throne and Liberty fit like a glove. And amongst those that have autoplay, Throne and Liberty is the Big Blockbuster AAA. Its going to have the old players, and its going to have the new ones. It has safety net against entry barrier, because free to play on Steam by Amazon. It has safety net against company competition, because NCSoft can shrug of Microsoft, Tencent, and say "bring it on", "we hold our ground and we survive and we thrive".
They are going to LEAD in the wisdom of allowing the old school design of POWER FANTASY "If everyone is a hero, noone is", allowing 1 player character or a small group of players to enter the fray of battle of a 100 x 100 and turn the tides. This eastern design is the stumbling stone that the western MMO designers abandoned over the years for the sakes of having "fairness" or "balance", which is not what MMORPGs exist to provide, an escapism from the equality/equity or inferiority of real life. The western designers tried to catter to the casual audience by limiting levels, creating the notions of "end game", of "raids", of entitlement to being "like the cool kids". Whereas MMORPGs are about the experience of power fantasy, of becoming more and more powerfull, more and more relevant amongst as many as possible. This is what the Tab Targeting and Autoplay empower. They allow competition AND LIVING LIFE (through the autoplay designs, offline for sleep, semi-afk/assisted for when you need to multitask, focus on something else, prioritize something else, you know, "life", either wife, children, family, studies, work, fitness, house chores, socialization in general, YOU CAN KEEP ALL OF THOSE THINGS, AND STILL BE like a hero AQUILES IN THE FIELD, withot sacrificing anything, because the autoplay is enough to psychological cause you to not give up, its a hand preventing you from falling, you never think like "I cant do both" or "I missed this or that day, and now I cant catch up". You only really cant catch up if you quit for weeks. See, the autoplay is a little help, it dilutes the side effects of withdrawal temporarily from the game. It still allows the rush of the race for power, progression, the competition.
3. The Monetization. They are doing Pay to Win LITE. Pay to Win Light. Something new as well. Basically, the game is worth the price of a BOX purchase, or the price of a monthly subscription, and thats more or less what is fair to expect a player to spend on the technicaly pay to win market. Its not thousands of dollars, its not dozens of thousands of dollars. There is this imaginary, hypothetical investment that achieves what players call satisfatory cost benefit of investment for the purpose of competing, which for Throne and Liberty is within a hundred dollars. The excess of expenditure does not require, incentivize, allow or benefit infinite investment. The inner workings of their pay to win monetization require a mix of player time and effort, commitment, are mitigated by actual player luck, by free to players with autoplay flooding market, affecting prices, the reward system, the chemistry required involves actual play alongside a proportionate amount of investment. Like fuel to a car, you may be able to pay for infinite upgrades, but if you can only grind, play, acquire materials for 4 upgrades, then thats your pay to win cap, it would still require you to attend, lets say 4 events daily, that happen once every 3 hours, so even if you play 12 hours, you can still spend only 4 measures of money, but then again, if you play 12 hours, you will likelly generate value from things you sell on the market to remain afloat. ONLY A PURIST will find fault. Anyone that understand the reasonableness of investing the equivalent of a box purchase or a monthly sub on something that gives them hundreds to thousands of hours such as an MMORPG will not feel bad, copium, guilty or hypocrite about opening their wallet.
In resume THRONE AND LIBERTY name means: the autoplay gives you LIBERTY, freedom to keep your life activities the tab targeting allows you to be part of an epic massive scale where you can actually socially rise to glory status of mythological hero (who else is selling this drug on the industry so fair and so cheap, so new and so popular, so experienced, so polished, as Throne and Liberty?) IT ALLOWS YOU TO BE KING, king over multitude of other players, King by your own merits, by the lack of "progression limitations" which was the stumbling stone of the western casual cool kids who scorned grinding and power fantasy in their designs and games. The true essence of MMORPGs and the significance and relevance is with Throne and Liberty.
The western, tried to shift what is relevant to what is "currently popular", but look around, what is popular is garbage and not MMORPG, there is chance to be King over others, a hero with high kill:death ratio in the epic massive scales in the western games, they dont even have massive scales for the MMORPGs, and certainly not new. New World from the beggining said "we are making this for the spoiled rich cool kids with a life, so our game has level cap, garbage itemization power potential, useless ratio of reward per effort expansions, be agressive get a town live like a cesar by earning taxes and thats it" They designed it according to their image and similitude and it became obvious and garbage to 90% of the player base within 1 season (3 months).
Throne and Liberty is not like that, IT WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
I love 400 people Unreal Tournament, but look at that on youtube, its a clusterfuck. Now look at the 100+ players on Lineage 1, 2 or Throne and Liberty! Its a beauty, it is clean, its a ballet, it allows thinking, reaction, its merciful, the time to kill is good enough, its engaging, its something noone else is doing or can do or provide. And thats the tab targetting tradeoff.
You can still play Throne and Liberty and some actiony game on the side, even at the same time. The Autoplay will cause you to love Throne and Liberty and always forgive it, because it forgives you.
So I decided to go all in with Throne and Liberty, and spend some $100 on it, without remorse, because its worth it, regardless where I actually choose to spend it in the shop. I know some people will spend more, I know some people will still deploy bots that surpass the autoplay, I know its going to be met with huge scorning from the action crowd, from the westerners that have prejudice against the easterners. But I know that at the end of the day, they have no where to lay their heads. They have no house, no place to call home, no plataform. I know they will keep going from game to game, that in all my reading, are full of flaws, despite the pros. Whereas Throne and Liberty is still, above average in most aspects, solid quality/polishing, surviving, with community, worth participating from the start.
Tab targeting, Autoplay and Lite Monetization is not slacking, its INTELIGENT DESIGN, flexible, considering the longevity, the journey, the proposition, the objective, the experience, the current limitations, etc.
What we want in our dreams is something that is going to take many more years to be deployed in the field (the "dream MMORPG"). And might actually be the child of this one, still leading the breakthroughs of technology and socio-economical-cultural designs.
The game is going to have a test in the west, the registering is open, go look it out. The game is free, try it, millions will. Make your own mind, your own conclusions. My thoughts I share for free also.
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Players were outpacing the resources they had for combatting it. And to top it off someone else was getting money off their work.
I can see them saying "we expend so much money for something that players seem to want. Perhaps we can turn it around so that we don't have to expend so much money and profit off of it and give players a safe experience."
Might not be great as far as "equal playing field" but there really was never an equal playing field when you take into account players who play 8+ hours per day and players who play 4 hours per week.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Tab target does not carry that same design. It puts a focus on a target for the character to commit actions to, but character movement and facing along with player's camera movement and facing, operates independent of what target is being locked onto.
There is an intentional trade being done in z-targeting that puts a tactical awareness element into the choice to use the targeting mechanic.
EDIT: In the context of Throne and Liberty, I'm pretty indifferent to the notion of them to be using tab target. It's on some level a mobile game and caters to a lot of automation to begin with. Tab target is not really a contributing concern to that.
Will note, I do not enjoy tab target myself. Z-targeting or soft-locking tends to be the closest I still enjoy. I do not hold that to mean tab targeting is itself 'bad', just not my preference.
One is a case that has no good fix, the other is a case that doesn't have to be created at all.
Once upon a time....
It's not that there aren't gamers who want to enjoy just playing the game, they just don't have many options and may not like those few they have, for other reasons.
Most games seem to only want the level grind as a means to charge for CS items.
Once upon a time....
That hasn't really changed though. It isn't new. First gen MMOs had massive grind and used glacially slow leveling to keep people paying their monthly rent check. It wasn't about quality or enjoying the ride. People leveled as fast as they could, as fast as the horrendous xp curve would let them. It's been about the money since the beginning, they're just getting a lot better at it now.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
I can't remember where the first CS came along exactly, but it wasn't anywhere near the beginning.
Along with the first FtP game rings a bell.
Edit,
I just re-read your post and see what you meant.
I think I still have to disagree, though. They were making games for the journey, but the design actually promoted the rush to "end game."
I see that as more of a mistake than anything else.
Once upon a time....
Its not just about the money, if it was, then the new MMO's would be super popular, making tons of cash, with tons of happy customers willing to pay more. Instead the genre is practically dead with a few old games barely hanging on, doing everything they can to draw in someone.
Your money arguement just doesnt hold up to me.
Games that generate larger and larger customer bases on each release, with larger and larger revenue sales would be an example of a company going after the money.
These businesses should be all about the money, thats what a business is supposed to be about. Instead they are moving away from that model and building games they like instead of what the customers like. This is why they flop.
Maybe they lack talent? Maybe they lack ideas? Maybe the higher ups with the money are clueless? Most likely they fired all the real managers and this is what it looks like when people without management skills are running the show.
Also:
This isn't really a hyper aggressive capitalist society. It's a natural thing that things go off the rails sometimes. Then, the walls you mentioned knock them back. It's perfectly normal.
We're there, but the industry doesn't want to advertise it. It's happening more in the West than the East, I think, at this point. Gamers are getting tired of the current state of affairs. This tiredness is only going to grow and show more the affects, without change.
Those revenue models are actually a symptom of this, if you ask me.
Once upon a time....
Thing like tab targeting break games. For example, you cannot have the fighters in the front protect the mage in the back because people can just tab -> tab -> tab -> until the game finds the target and *blamo* - you just called down fire on someone you cannot even see.
For instance you can literally just not get hit by melee if you just keep walking.
Nearly every attack freezes you in place, there is no sense of momentum or weight, it is literally pre WoW style combat.
I think tab targeting is a fine way to do combat and I would like to see more developers really innovate on it.
But you can tell this was combat system was designed with the autoplay and mobile in mind so I am not sure what can be done to fix it other than keep the mobile version as is, hold the PC release and retool the combat then release a different PC version.
Not sure that is likely to happen.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For profit games are always about the money, but while in many cases they are primarily if not solely about that it doesn't apply to each and every one. Those only partly about profit are obviously not always going to make optimal business decisions but that allows their choices to be better suited to their other concerns. Whether this should or not be doesn't really change that in some cases it is so.
Even Blizzard is rumored to be working on a lower cost survival title, Funcom and others did the same years ago.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I said in the opening thread that Throne and Liberty was going nowhere, based on my perception of NCSoft lack of evolutionary design implementations. I was wrong about that, but I said that months before the first public opportunity to see people playing.
I will explain, what I perceive now.
1. Autoplay is an evolution. It is necessary. It is the future. Its a safety net. Its life for the player and those around him, in all aspects. Its wisdom. Throne and Liberty developers from NCSoft were doing this years ago and have learned that resting and allowing players to rest is good, is necessary and its profitable.
It allows hundreds of psychological processes that are superior and evolutionary, conforting, stable, flexible. By all means, its even Divine to have autoplay feature, specially in a true massive scale of time and effort, longevity game. Its an evolution of what Lineage 1 and 2 were and the experience they gave us and what it required of us as players. We perceived it as healthy at the time, but nowadays that same experience would be sick, causing us to be sick, and its plague ridden with all kinds of prejudices and fallacies, all understandable, same with prejudices against consoles, monetization, mobile, nfts. These are all structural sedimentary apparent natural increments of evolutionary design. It just take the fine tunning, the elegant intelligence to make it work and I think Throne and Liberty has that. It has layers of thought in it, its not just a simple binary "lets have it", not a simplistic system, not void of what a game design must have, which is to think the end from the beggining.
2. Gameplay choice is a Trade off, currently in 2023 technology, economical, development levels. I saw Unreal Tournament modded with 400 bots, I saw Firefall with near a hundred people in game events, I saw Battlefields, I saw Planetside, I saw all the popular battle royales with a 100 people. Isaw modded games of the past like Freelancer multiplayer with near a hundred players, I saw Space Cowboys/Flysis/Ace Online with hundreds of players. I am mentioning the games that have the "Action" at standard or above standard levels. The dream is to have hundreds of players with action gameplay working smooth, stable, without lab, without the visual pollution and the confusion of hundreds of people casting spells/shootings weapons, etc. If this can be done currently and I believe it can be done, WE CANNOT REQUIRE OF NCSoft to design and deliver this. We cannot realistically require that from any company that currently exists in the market. Its in the future.
Now I could mention all the massive scale fantasy, melee, medieval or sci-fi isometric or top down MMORPGs of the past that did provide the Massive Scale 100+ players battles, from the very own Lineage to Warhammer Online, Dark Ages of Camelot, Shadowbane, Rising Force Online, etc and many other smaller, less well known games, that had that in some working measure. Even EVE Online, which we often forget, or the most recent attempts like New World instanced pvp modes which are arguably golden standard, but still not defensably "epic or massive" in scale or often enough, or well seasoned enough, or well balanced enough, and so on and so forth, despite the technical achievement of having a few dozen people fighting a moba like game mode in New World.
So what about the Gameplay of Throne and Liberty being Tab Target and the Tradeoff I am speaking about?
That they do manage to provide the hundreds of players on screen fighting. You want to experience that? You want. If you played the games I mentioned above, you know its worth the tradeoff for a significant portion of potential players, both old and new. Yes, you can always play a small scale action based high skill based melee hybrid MMO, but in New World at some point in the development they made it so you couldnt fight 5 players alone with your archer and win, even if you were highly skilled, intelligent, knowledgeable, etc. So in many games, that do have action and small scale PVP, even if its on open world, it is still not as fun as the epic massive scale.
Many people mention Black Desert, but its visual pollution, confusion, a clusterfuck, too fast. Just like the problem with Warframe that caused the developers to make Soul Frame.
The idea is the experience of pvp has to be degusted, tasted, chewed, thought, measured, clean, polished. Not a button mashing with sperging of seizure inducing sickness. On small skirmishes, those games work, but THEY ARE LIMITED to that, "1 x 1"s, small skirmishes. Skillfull action based dueling is fun, "4x4" is fun, etc. But EPIC MASSIVE SCALE IS ANOTHER DEGREE OF FUN. Throne and Liberty kept that essence from Lineage, that is good, we need that, the kids nowadays need to feel and experience that.
Throne and Liberty is a juggernaut of popularity built solid on a company that is specialized in delivering that, THEY ARE SUCCESFULL. Their earnings are on billions of dollars, they are rock solid. No amount of scorning from us or the west will cause them to fail suddenly. They are not on a "spiral of descent" either. These 12 years of so they are working on this game, its actually all the 20+ years they have been working on this MMORPG field in the industry. It is believeable that these TRADE OFF AND COMPROMISES and these CHOICES THEY HAVE MADE are actually THE RIGHT ONES!!!
Its an improvement upon everything they have made. They are going to LEAD in the wisdom of having Autoplay for their THOUSAND HOURS LONGEVITY game. They are going to Lead, because THE OTHER GAMES COMPETING WITH THEM DONT HAVE THAT. Its a genious play. Look around, everything mediocrity, not even worth to play the actiony ones, much less sacrifice your life (time commitment to a new MMORPG) to the sure disappointment. Throne and Liberty is filled with safety nets, safety nets against bots (players autoplay eat bots alive, diluting their potential/earnings), safety net against black market, safety net against people quitting for "real life reasons", imagine that. They circunvented with their design even the meta aspects of social gaming. Look around, everything irrelevant, everyone only cares about the new games so they move like a flock of birds to the next game, unable to find a place to call home, unable to use one game as a plataform for long term, to add it as an asset in their life. Throne and Liberty fit like a glove. And amongst those that have autoplay, Throne and Liberty is the Big Blockbuster AAA. Its going to have the old players, and its going to have the new ones. It has safety net against entry barrier, because free to play on Steam by Amazon. It has safety net against company competition, because NCSoft can shrug of Microsoft, Tencent, and say "bring it on", "we hold our ground and we survive and we thrive".
They are going to LEAD in the wisdom of allowing the old school design of POWER FANTASY "If everyone is a hero, noone is", allowing 1 player character or a small group of players to enter the fray of battle of a 100 x 100 and turn the tides. This eastern design is the stumbling stone that the western MMO designers abandoned over the years for the sakes of having "fairness" or "balance", which is not what MMORPGs exist to provide, an escapism from the equality/equity or inferiority of real life. The western designers tried to catter to the casual audience by limiting levels, creating the notions of "end game", of "raids", of entitlement to being "like the cool kids". Whereas MMORPGs are about the experience of power fantasy, of becoming more and more powerfull, more and more relevant amongst as many as possible. This is what the Tab Targeting and Autoplay empower. They allow competition AND LIVING LIFE (through the autoplay designs, offline for sleep, semi-afk/assisted for when you need to multitask, focus on something else, prioritize something else, you know, "life", either wife, children, family, studies, work, fitness, house chores, socialization in general, YOU CAN KEEP ALL OF THOSE THINGS, AND STILL BE like a hero AQUILES IN THE FIELD, withot sacrificing anything, because the autoplay is enough to psychological cause you to not give up, its a hand preventing you from falling, you never think like "I cant do both" or "I missed this or that day, and now I cant catch up". You only really cant catch up if you quit for weeks. See, the autoplay is a little help, it dilutes the side effects of withdrawal temporarily from the game. It still allows the rush of the race for power, progression, the competition.
3. The Monetization. They are doing Pay to Win LITE. Pay to Win Light. Something new as well. Basically, the game is worth the price of a BOX purchase, or the price of a monthly subscription, and thats more or less what is fair to expect a player to spend on the technicaly pay to win market. Its not thousands of dollars, its not dozens of thousands of dollars. There is this imaginary, hypothetical investment that achieves what players call satisfatory cost benefit of investment for the purpose of competing, which for Throne and Liberty is within a hundred dollars. The excess of expenditure does not require, incentivize, allow or benefit infinite investment. The inner workings of their pay to win monetization require a mix of player time and effort, commitment, are mitigated by actual player luck, by free to players with autoplay flooding market, affecting prices, the reward system, the chemistry required involves actual play alongside a proportionate amount of investment. Like fuel to a car, you may be able to pay for infinite upgrades, but if you can only grind, play, acquire materials for 4 upgrades, then thats your pay to win cap, it would still require you to attend, lets say 4 events daily, that happen once every 3 hours, so even if you play 12 hours, you can still spend only 4 measures of money, but then again, if you play 12 hours, you will likelly generate value from things you sell on the market to remain afloat.
ONLY A PURIST will find fault. Anyone that understand the reasonableness of investing the equivalent of a box purchase or a monthly sub on something that gives them hundreds to thousands of hours such as an MMORPG will not feel bad, copium, guilty or hypocrite about opening their wallet.
In resume THRONE AND LIBERTY name means:
the autoplay gives you LIBERTY, freedom to keep your life activities
the tab targeting allows you to be part of an epic massive scale where you can actually socially rise to glory status of mythological hero (who else is selling this drug on the industry so fair and so cheap, so new and so popular, so experienced, so polished, as Throne and Liberty?) IT ALLOWS YOU TO BE KING, king over multitude of other players, King by your own merits, by the lack of "progression limitations" which was the stumbling stone of the western casual cool kids who scorned grinding and power fantasy in their designs and games. The true essence of MMORPGs and the significance and relevance is with Throne and Liberty.
The western, tried to shift what is relevant to what is "currently popular", but look around, what is popular is garbage and not MMORPG, there is chance to be King over others, a hero with high kill:death ratio in the epic massive scales in the western games, they dont even have massive scales for the MMORPGs, and certainly not new. New World from the beggining said "we are making this for the spoiled rich cool kids with a life, so our game has level cap, garbage itemization power potential, useless ratio of reward per effort expansions, be agressive get a town live like a cesar by earning taxes and thats it" They designed it according to their image and similitude and it became obvious and garbage to 90% of the player base within 1 season (3 months).
Throne and Liberty is not like that, IT WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
So I post this here to correct myself.
I love 400 people Unreal Tournament, but look at that on youtube, its a clusterfuck.
Now look at the 100+ players on Lineage 1, 2 or Throne and Liberty! Its a beauty, it is clean, its a ballet, it allows thinking, reaction, its merciful, the time to kill is good enough, its engaging, its something noone else is doing or can do or provide. And thats the tab targetting tradeoff.
You can still play Throne and Liberty and some actiony game on the side, even at the same time. The Autoplay will cause you to love Throne and Liberty and always forgive it, because it forgives you.
So I decided to go all in with Throne and Liberty, and spend some $100 on it, without remorse, because its worth it, regardless where I actually choose to spend it in the shop.
I know some people will spend more, I know some people will still deploy bots that surpass the autoplay, I know its going to be met with huge scorning from the action crowd, from the westerners that have prejudice against the easterners. But I know that at the end of the day, they have no where to lay their heads. They have no house, no place to call home, no plataform. I know they will keep going from game to game, that in all my reading, are full of flaws, despite the pros. Whereas Throne and Liberty is still, above average in most aspects, solid quality/polishing, surviving, with community, worth participating from the start.
Tab targeting, Autoplay and Lite Monetization is not slacking, its INTELIGENT DESIGN, flexible, considering the longevity, the journey, the proposition, the objective, the experience, the current limitations, etc.
What we want in our dreams is something that is going to take many more years to be deployed in the field (the "dream MMORPG"). And might actually be the child of this one, still leading the breakthroughs of technology and socio-economical-cultural designs.
The game is going to have a test in the west, the registering is open, go look it out.
The game is free, try it, millions will. Make your own mind, your own conclusions.
My thoughts I share for free also.