Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I always laugh when people who know nothing about unit testing talk about unit testing. I'd post some links but you can go to Google and type "unit testing" and hit enter faster. Here is a quote from just one of a multitude of articles that will all agree because this is an industry standard term not up for interpretation like "alpha" or "beta" are.
"The main difference between Unit Tests and regular QA is that Unit Tests are not done by a user interacting with the software directly. In fact, they are done by a programmer with code."
Your example of testing the database for race conditions... so first of all the database doesn't create or have race conditions. Race conditions come about from your software that sits on top of the database. All database technologies from MySQL to mogodb to Oracle all have a concept of a transaction which ensures that no matter how many connections you have only one connection can modify a given record at a time. If you have multiple connections that try to modify the same record at the same time you end up with a deadlock. Typically the database engine will pick a deadlock 'victim' and their transaction gets rejected while the other transaction completes. If that doesn't occur then it just hangs until one of the clients disconnects or abandons their transaction. Point of this seminar being you don't have to unit test your database for race conditions.
You do have to test your software for race conditions but that's done at a higher level than a unit test. That's because a unit test is all the way down at the individual method or function call level. You are testing the smallest possible unit of work ergo "unit testing". If I have a class called SewerRat that inherits from my BadGuy class and implements its CalculateHitDamage method, a unit test is going to test just that Calculate method and nothing else. Any dependency the method needs such as a reference to the ability the SewerRat is using and the SewerRats stats like Strength that affect the calculation are passed in as mocks using a mocking framework so that you have tight control over all the parameters going in to test the expected result of the method.
Why am I telling you all of this? It's because there is no software development stage of "Unit Test". Unit testing is something that is done as a discipline during ALL development stages from the earliest pre-pre-pre-alpha to post production hotfix to everything in between.
Now you've learned something and can quit talking out of your ass about unit testing.
I always laugh when people who know nothing about unit testing talk about unit testing. I'd post some links but you can go to Google and type "unit testing" and hit enter faster. Here is a quote from just one of a multitude of articles that will all agree because this is an industry standard term not up for interpretation like "alpha" or "beta" are.
"The main difference between Unit Tests and regular QA is that Unit Tests are not done by a user interacting with the software directly. In fact, they are done by a programmer with code."
Your example of testing the database for race conditions... so first of all the database doesn't create or have race conditions. Race conditions come about from your software that sits on top of the database. All database technologies from MySQL to mogodb to Oracle all have a concept of a transaction which ensures that no matter how many connections you have only one connection can modify a given record at a time. If you have multiple connections that try to modify the same record at the same time you end up with a deadlock. Typically the database engine will pick a deadlock 'victim' and their transaction gets rejected while the other transaction completes. If that doesn't occur then it just hangs until one of the clients disconnects or abandons their transaction. Point of this seminar being you don't have to unit test your database for race conditions.
You do have to test your software for race conditions but that's done at a higher level than a unit test. That's because a unit test is all the way down at the individual method or function call level. You are testing the smallest possible unit of work ergo "unit testing". If I have a class called SewerRat that inherits from my BadGuy class and implements its CalculateHitDamage method, a unit test is going to test just that Calculate method and nothing else. Any dependency the method needs such as a reference to the ability the SewerRat is using and the SewerRats stats like Strength that affect the calculation are passed in as mocks using a mocking framework so that you have tight control over all the parameters going in to test the expected result of the method.
Why am I telling you all of this? It's because there is no software development stage of "Unit Test". Unit testing is something that is done as a discipline during ALL development stages from the earliest pre-pre-pre-alpha to post production hotfix to everything in between.
Now you've learned something and can quit talking out of your ass about unit testing.
Pretty snarky, eh?
A database that services multiple processes at once can have race conditions when those processes ask for conflicting actions. Developers can create a test jig that simulates this event, and make sure the DB does the right thing.
This has an interesting discussion, "On POSIX unlink() takes a path, and between retrieving the current path
of a file descriptor using /proc/self/fd/x or F_GETPATH and calling
unlink() someone may have changed that path, thus potentially leading to
the wrong file being unlinked and data lost."
You will need to write code that avoids this conflict, and test it. And preferably before it is integrated into the whole system. Hence, a unit test.
And you can argue that the entire DB as a whole is a "unit", and can be tested stand-alone. And this had better be done before it is integrated into the system.
"Unit testing is a type of software testing that focuses on individual
units or components of a software system. The purpose of unit testing is
to validate that each unit of the software works as intended and meets
the requirements. Unit testing is typically performed by developers, and
it is performed early in the development process before the code is
integrated and tested as a whole system."
Exactly what I said. Once the code is integrated and tested as a whole system, you are at alpha test stage.
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
If true... this would be... concerning.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
If true... this would be... concerning.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
So a Battle Royale, much like the stupid attempt Ashes tried and failed with. This is truly a head shaker. I'm very curious what sort of "yes man" decision making process studio leadership went through to convince themselves this was a "really good idea".
Maybe Visionary Realms is taking a cue from City State Entertainment on how best to tank your project whilst stringing supporters along.
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
If true... this would be... concerning.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
So a Battle Royale, much like the stupid attempt Ashes tried and failed with. This is truly a head shaker. I'm very curious what sort of "yes man" decision making process studio leadership went through to convince themselves this was a "really good idea".
Maybe Visionary Realms is taking a cue from City State Entertainment on how best to tank your project whilst stringing supporters along.
If true.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
If true... this would be... concerning.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
So a Battle Royale, much like the stupid attempt Ashes tried and failed with. This is truly a head shaker. I'm very curious what sort of "yes man" decision making process studio leadership went through to convince themselves this was a "really good idea".
Maybe Visionary Realms is taking a cue from City State Entertainment on how best to tank your project whilst stringing supporters along.
If true.
1st time poster? I'm calling it an AI generated Deep Fake.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
If true... this would be... concerning.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
So a Battle Royale, much like the stupid attempt Ashes tried and failed with. This is truly a head shaker. I'm very curious what sort of "yes man" decision making process studio leadership went through to convince themselves this was a "really good idea".
Maybe Visionary Realms is taking a cue from City State Entertainment on how best to tank your project whilst stringing supporters along.
If true.
MassivelyOP has an update on this today. Seems like the leak might be largely true.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
If true... this would be... concerning.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
So a Battle Royale, much like the stupid attempt Ashes tried and failed with. This is truly a head shaker. I'm very curious what sort of "yes man" decision making process studio leadership went through to convince themselves this was a "really good idea".
Maybe Visionary Realms is taking a cue from City State Entertainment on how best to tank your project whilst stringing supporters along.
If true.
MassivelyOP has an update on this today. Seems like the leak might be largely true.
If the BR takes off, they'll never finish the MMRPG. Why would they dump good money after bad?
If the BR tanks, they'll never finish the MMRPG because they'll be out of money.
The BR is a convenient deflection for 2 narrative branches that have the same conclusion.
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
If true... this would be... concerning.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
So a Battle Royale, much like the stupid attempt Ashes tried and failed with. This is truly a head shaker. I'm very curious what sort of "yes man" decision making process studio leadership went through to convince themselves this was a "really good idea".
Maybe Visionary Realms is taking a cue from City State Entertainment on how best to tank your project whilst stringing supporters along.
If true.
MassivelyOP has an update on this today. Seems like the leak might be largely true.
If the BR takes off, they'll never finish the MMRPG. Why would they dump good money after bad?
If the BR tanks, they'll never finish the MMRPG because they'll be out of money.
The BR is a convenient deflection for 2 narrative branches that have the same conclusion.
Nothing about the Pantheon stuff I have seen signals they have the foundation that will make a good/fun BR or survival type game. It's just not that kind of game or combat.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
If true... this would be... concerning.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
So a Battle Royale, much like the stupid attempt Ashes tried and failed with. This is truly a head shaker. I'm very curious what sort of "yes man" decision making process studio leadership went through to convince themselves this was a "really good idea".
Maybe Visionary Realms is taking a cue from City State Entertainment on how best to tank your project whilst stringing supporters along.
If true.
MassivelyOP has an update on this today. Seems like the leak might be largely true.
If the BR takes off, they'll never finish the MMRPG. Why would they dump good money after bad?
If the BR tanks, they'll never finish the MMRPG because they'll be out of money.
The BR is a convenient deflection for 2 narrative branches that have the same conclusion.
Nothing about the Pantheon stuff I have seen signals they have the foundation that will make a good/fun BR or survival type game. It's just not that kind of game or combat.
I agree and I don't think my post suggested otherwise. What I'm suggesting is that the BR is a fantasy distraction for the inevitable conclusion of them failing to make an MMRPG, let alone something close to what they promised.
Nothing about the Pantheon stuff I have seen signals they have the foundation that will make a good/fun BR or survival type game. It's just not that kind of game or combat.
I agree and I don't think my post suggested otherwise. What I'm suggesting is that the BR is a fantasy distraction for the inevitable conclusion of them failing to make an MMRPG, let alone something close to what they promised.
Do they not take note of how this went for Ashes of Creation? They are still getting flack for making a BR. Didnt this also happen with the spiritual successor of DAoC MMO they were making? If I remember right people flipped their lid over that.
Nothing about the Pantheon stuff I have seen signals they have the foundation that will make a good/fun BR or survival type game. It's just not that kind of game or combat.
I agree and I don't think my post suggested otherwise. What I'm suggesting is that the BR is a fantasy distraction for the inevitable conclusion of them failing to make an MMRPG, let alone something close to what they promised.
Do they not take note of how this went for Ashes of Creation? They are still getting flack for making a BR. Didnt this also happen with the spiritual successor of DAoC MMO they were making? If I remember right people flipped their lid over that.
You remember correctly, to this day many CU backers refer to Final Stand: Ragnarok as the "Traitor Game."
Doesn't help that it's announcement triggered a big surge in refund requests which combined with the start of COVID-19 resulted in few, if any refunds being paid in over 3.5 years.
Highly unlikely this announcement will result in positive results.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"The main difference between Unit Tests and regular QA is that Unit Tests are not done by a user interacting with the software directly. In fact, they are done by a programmer with code."
Your example of testing the database for race conditions... so first of all the database doesn't create or have race conditions. Race conditions come about from your software that sits on top of the database. All database technologies from MySQL to mogodb to Oracle all have a concept of a transaction which ensures that no matter how many connections you have only one connection can modify a given record at a time. If you have multiple connections that try to modify the same record at the same time you end up with a deadlock. Typically the database engine will pick a deadlock 'victim' and their transaction gets rejected while the other transaction completes. If that doesn't occur then it just hangs until one of the clients disconnects or abandons their transaction. Point of this seminar being you don't have to unit test your database for race conditions.
You do have to test your software for race conditions but that's done at a higher level than a unit test. That's because a unit test is all the way down at the individual method or function call level. You are testing the smallest possible unit of work ergo "unit testing". If I have a class called SewerRat that inherits from my BadGuy class and implements its CalculateHitDamage method, a unit test is going to test just that Calculate method and nothing else. Any dependency the method needs such as a reference to the ability the SewerRat is using and the SewerRats stats like Strength that affect the calculation are passed in as mocks using a mocking framework so that you have tight control over all the parameters going in to test the expected result of the method.
Why am I telling you all of this? It's because there is no software development stage of "Unit Test". Unit testing is something that is done as a discipline during ALL development stages from the earliest pre-pre-pre-alpha to post production hotfix to everything in between.
Now you've learned something and can quit talking out of your ass about unit testing.
Exactly what I said. Once the code is integrated and tested as a whole system, you are at alpha test stage.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
But you do you and have fun.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
MMO in development, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen recently announced entering 24/7 testing phase. What they didn’t reveal is that 24/7 is in fact NOT testing an MMO but a survival moba version of Pantheon. The public has the right to know this before they pay the very high cost of entering testing. Players start in a private instance, they queue for 1 hour survival matches, they have a choice of PvE or PvP when queuing. The player is then dropped in a random part of zone in a hunger games type of scenario with objectives to complete. It is hardcore mode, player dies they are out of match and have to re-queue. The developers claim this is for “data collection only and to speed up development” and supposedly an old-school spirited mmo is in development.
I'm not sure The Hunger Games is what I think of when I think of Pantheon.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Doesn't help that it's announcement triggered a big surge in refund requests which combined with the start of COVID-19 resulted in few, if any refunds being paid in over 3.5 years.
Highly unlikely this announcement will result in positive results.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018