GW2 is just too damned expensive to keep up with for such an older mmo even compared to GW1 which i thoroughly enjoyed.
How is Free too damn expensive?
...snip...
It wasn't free, I paid for it, the base game and the expansions and had to put up with nickle and diming in game on top of it for some stuff like living stories as It wasn't something I played constantly and have installed all the time.
When you buy an expansion you should get all the living stories that came with it too regardless of if you were there logged in or not when they came out.
Lots of whales in the game like to defend but its free yet their wallets say a different story.... I know it was like that in my guild.
It's one thing we didn't have in GW1 beyond some basic stuff that once bought that was it like storage.
Used to play with my wife and son and we said fk it after awhile of crapnet wanting to charge us for the living stories we missed.
You mean you're getting butthurt and think buying this too much?
Of all the fuckery that Anet has done, and I disagree with them on, how they handled the Living World was not one of them. They made it very clear that the Living Word Episodes being free was a reward to those that were actively playing during it's release, as a thank you for being an active player
With that said, If $50 (it's currently 50% off, so at most $100) is too high a bar for you to get the Entire Dragon Saga, ALL the Expansions and ALL the LW content, then I don't know what to tell you.
But that sound entitled as all hell for what amounts to years worth of content to work through.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The idea that Guild Wars 2 is too expensive is out of line with reality.
ESO shoots out overpriced, underdelivering expansions at a breakneck pace. And has a far more egregious cash shop. And an optional-but-not-really sub fee.
FFXIV has a sub fee and expansions.
WoW has a sub fee, and expansions, and still has the shitting gall to have a cash shop.
Those are its main competitors. They are all much more expensive.
I’m surprised by the lack of interest in GW2 on this site. It’s got a long history of development, a strong core player base that is more than welcoming, great story, and won’t cost you dearly if you come and go like other MMO’s.
As for the weapon expansion it adds a whole host of builds to each playable class, and this is just an opening test. The development of mechanics and animations around this will be polished when it fully launches next year.
GW2 is a homey and casual game full of great exploration. My only real gripe with the game is the incredibly useless renowned heart quests that are really only there for achievements.
GW2 is atypical. Some enjoy their departure from the norm and others less so. I very much dislike the platforming elements often involved in exploration that at times prevent me from clearing areas.
If I wanted that I'd be playing something that includes Mario as part of the title. From the bit I played of Heart of Thorns it seemed there was going to be more of it rather than less. That subdued my interest and I have since had trouble rekindling it when I try to play the game again as I know it will head in that direction if I stick with it.
GW2 is just too damned expensive to keep up with for such an older mmo even compared to GW1 which i thoroughly enjoyed.
How is Free too damn expensive?
...snip...
It wasn't free, I paid for it, the base game and the expansions and had to put up with nickle and diming in game on top of it for some stuff like living stories as It wasn't something I played constantly and have installed all the time.
When you buy an expansion you should get all the living stories that came with it too regardless of if you were there logged in or not when they came out.
Lots of whales in the game like to defend but its free yet their wallets say a different story.... I know it was like that in my guild.
It's one thing we didn't have in GW1 beyond some basic stuff that once bought that was it like storage.
Used to play with my wife and son and we said fk it after awhile of crapnet wanting to charge us for the living stories we missed.
The base game is now free, but that wasn't always the case. It had a cost associated with it when I first gave it a go. The b2p nature of the remainder is accompanied by a rather expensive cash shop, with some of that being sold standard features in some MMORPGs.
While the game has interesting elements and understandably appeals to many there are some thorns that come with those roses.
I’m surprised by the lack of interest in GW2 on this site. It’s got a long history of development, a strong core player base that is more than welcoming, great story, and won’t cost you dearly if you come and go like other MMO’s.
As for the weapon expansion it adds a whole host of builds to each playable class, and this is just an opening test. The development of mechanics and animations around this will be polished when it fully launches next year.
GW2 is a homey and casual game full of great exploration. My only real gripe with the game is the incredibly useless renowned heart quests that are really only there for achievements.
This site is mainly populated by what amounts to retired gamers that want to sit around their lodge hall and talk about the good old days, even people like @Aeander, who seems to be one of the few other GW2 players here, has openly announced to having no urge or desire to play GW2 anymore years ago, and has gone so far as to self identify as a single player gamer
I won't argue with that. And it has little to do with the game itself, honestly. I just have like an 8 year old gaming PC and can't afford a new rig for the time being, and I'm using the systems I have to make up for decades of not finishing games. I'm not exactly unhappy with the resulting experience though.
That said, I honestly have no clue why I'm still here, really. It's not to reminisce. Because who would I do so with? It's not like this forum was friendly to my MMOs even when I was still actively playing them.
Hey you are a solid poster who keeps us informed about all sorts, so Carry On Posting. I should also point out this site became about gaming as opposed to MMOs about ten years ago.
That aside, none of the new MMOs with low PC requirements entice you then? For that matter so many are on consoles these days, though I should bite my tongue as I am the last person in the world who would take that option.
GW2 is just too damned expensive to keep up with for such an older mmo even compared to GW1 which i thoroughly enjoyed.
How is Free too damn expensive?
...snip...
It wasn't free, I paid for it, the base game and the expansions and had to put up with nickle and diming in game on top of it for some stuff like living stories as It wasn't something I played constantly and have installed all the time.
When you buy an expansion you should get all the living stories that came with it too regardless of if you were there logged in or not when they came out.
Lots of whales in the game like to defend but its free yet their wallets say a different story.... I know it was like that in my guild.
It's one thing we didn't have in GW1 beyond some basic stuff that once bought that was it like storage.
Used to play with my wife and son and we said fk it after awhile of crapnet wanting to charge us for the living stories we missed.
You mean you're getting butthurt and think buying this too much?
Of all the fuckery that Anet has done, and I disagree with them on, how they handled the Living World was not one of them. They made it very clear that the Living Word Episodes being free was a reward to those that were actively playing during it's release, as a thank you for being an active player
With that said, If $50 (it's currently 50% off, so at most $100) is too high a bar for you to get the Entire Dragon Saga, ALL the Expansions and ALL the LW content, then I don't know what to tell you.
But that sound entitled as all hell for what amounts to years worth of content to work through.
You have to be effing stupid to pay for the base game pay for expansion and then pay again 100$ to get all the story you should have got free in the first place just because you didnt log in when it came out which gives it to you free anyways....
Your entitled argument is fking stupid, grow a braincell. I just don't have patience anymore for morons that take pride in bending over to take it up the arse like it is some good thing or a point of pride to show they arn't poor broke scrubs.
I already paid full price for the base game x3. I already paid full price for path of fire x3 and already paid full price for Heart of thorn x3..............not to mention a few things in the shop x3 that should really be free in game QoL items.
............ so I sure as fk wont pay for those again just to get the living seasons I should already be getting free...you know kind of like how a new person picking up the game now would be by buying what you just linked...
GW2 is just too damned expensive to keep up with for such an older mmo even compared to GW1 which i thoroughly enjoyed.
How is Free too damn expensive?
...snip...
It wasn't free, I paid for it, the base game and the expansions and had to put up with nickle and diming in game on top of it for some stuff like living stories as It wasn't something I played constantly and have installed all the time.
When you buy an expansion you should get all the living stories that came with it too regardless of if you were there logged in or not when they came out.
Lots of whales in the game like to defend but its free yet their wallets say a different story.... I know it was like that in my guild.
It's one thing we didn't have in GW1 beyond some basic stuff that once bought that was it like storage.
Used to play with my wife and son and we said fk it after awhile of crapnet wanting to charge us for the living stories we missed.
You mean you're getting butthurt and think buying this too much?
Of all the fuckery that Anet has done, and I disagree with them on, how they handled the Living World was not one of them. They made it very clear that the Living Word Episodes being free was a reward to those that were actively playing during it's release, as a thank you for being an active player
With that said, If $50 (it's currently 50% off, so at most $100) is too high a bar for you to get the Entire Dragon Saga, ALL the Expansions and ALL the LW content, then I don't know what to tell you.
But that sound entitled as all hell for what amounts to years worth of content to work through.
You have to be effing stupid to pay for the base game pay for expansion and then pay again 100$ to get all the story you should have got free in the first place just because you didnt log in when it came out which gives it to you free anyways....
Your entitled argument it fking stupid, grow a braincell. I just don't have patience anymore for morons that take pride in bending over to take it up the arse like it is some good thing or a point of pride to show they arn't poor broke scrubs.
First, the $100 includes the Expansions, HoT, PoF, and EoD, dummy.
Second: It's called Supporting your Hobby, is how you keep the hobby alive, that applies to MMO, they are not some charity for broke ass shits that want everything for free, they are selling a game, and the only people keeping the game alive are the people paying for it.
Finally: Since you are an old school gamer that waxes about the good old days where you had to pay for the base game, pay for expansions, and pay $15+ a month just to play, and didn't get shit for free, you're suddenly acting like an entitled brat about what you're owed for free.
The answer is.. nothing. You're not owed a damn thing for free, the only thing you are owed, is what you pay for, everything else is a gift and you all really need to start respecting and treating it as such.
It's like you totally forgot how these games work at all, and just want to whine and cry that you're not getting enough free shit, when you really are not owed any free shit at all.
Maybe you should go play one of the other MMO that does not give you any free shit to get a wake up call again
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
First, the $100 includes the Expansions, HoT, PoF, and EoD, dummy.
Second: It's called Supporting your Hobby, is how you keep the hobby alive, that applies to MMO, they are not some charity for broke ass shits that want everything for free, they are selling a game, and the only people keeping the game alive are the people paying for it.
Finally: Since you are an old school gamer that waxes about the good old days where you had to pay for the base game, pay for expansions, and pay $15+ a month just to play, and didn't get shit for free, you're suddenly acting like an entitled brat about what you're owed for free.
The answer is.. nothing. You're not owed a damn thing for free, the only thing you are owed, is what you pay for, everything else is a gift and you all really need to start respecting and treating it as such.
It's like you totally forgot how these games work at all, and just want to whine and cry that you're not getting enough free shit, when you really are not owed any free shit at all.
Maybe you should go play one of the other MMO that does not give you any free shit to get a wake up call again
FIRST learn to read I already paid for all that, look in the mirror before calling me a dummy you moron. Note since I already paid for that I will not pay for it a "second" time and consider it a good deal or for some fancyful BS of supporting my hobby since guess what? I already did so when I bought all those the first time around.
SECOND I don't expect them to give shit to me for "free" but you seem to have a hard time grasping I already paid for all that and as such they already got my support, they should appreciate it and stop trying to milk me over and over and morons trying to justify the fking over as supporting the game are just ...you got it.... morons... that like to chuck cash around or simply have so much of it they just dont care.
Finally Yes I have been playing games a long time but I dunno where you see or why you have me pegged as someone waxing about the good ole days...misfiring neurons on your part there I think....Not wanting to pay for the same stuff multiple times for one account isn't being entitled maybe crapnet should stop being entitled themselves....
The answer is......... you should stop being a moron, try to use your braincells and realize I already paid for that content and them trying to justify and gaslight people into oh well its just a free gift for the first week it is live is just that.... them gaslighting...you guessed it.. morons..... cause they know the wizards first rule and know the morons will defend that.
Maybe you should stop treating your fellow forumites as entitled children wanting free hands out when clearly that is not the case. There's far better way for you to improve your self esteem than coming here in a forum to try and put others down, cause you don't agree with one point, or be some kind of ITG...might want to look in the mirror when talking about wake up calls.
Oh and learn how to snip friggin quotes already so you don't end up with posts that are half a mile long...you been here long enough to know how to do so.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
SECOND I don't expect them to give shit to me for "free" but you seem to have a hard time grasping I already paid for all that and as such they already got my support,
Eh? How did you pay for it?
If you paid for it, you would have had it Anet is typically really good about that, and we would not be having this discussion.
Now, Anet has been very upfront about the Terms and Conditions if you wanted the Free LW episodes, they have also been very upfront about what is included when you bought expansions as well.
They have not played any kind rug pull or deception, or anything else for that matter, in this regard, they have been very open and honest with their player base about this
What is going on here, is purely a problem on your end, where you believe you're entitled to a free gift from Anet when you know very well that you have not met the terms and conditions to get it
Not sure what to tell you in this regard, but you're wrong
I am saying that as someone that has missed some LW episodes as well, and even after buying all the expansions, I still needed to buy them as well, what divides us, is that I did so without any issues because Anet made it very clear the terms and conditions that we as players had to meet if we wanted that content gifted to us for free
I didn't meet them, so I was going to pay for it, if I wanted it, just like anyone and everyone else, you included in that.
Now among any responsible adult, That should be the end of the discussion. If there were conditions you needed to meet, and you did not meet them, you don't get it. That applies to pretty much everything in life.
Just to use another example: Lets say a McDonalds is giving away something like a free cheeseburgers and a festive toy on their 20th Anniversary, a limited time event (which was back in 2016, just FYI)
What you are doing now is, trying to walk into McDonalds today and expect your free cheeseburger and festive gift because you bought a happy meal there a few times, and then, when told "No" by everyone, because it was limited time and you missed it, your response is get upset, throw a tantrum, and follow that up by acting too stupid to realize that it was a limited time event, and you missed it.
Starting to sink in what you look like in this exchange?
Also, Tossing insults at me, is not making you look better by the way, it actually, ironically, makes you look worse.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
GW2 is just too damned expensive to keep up with for such an older mmo even compared to GW1 which i thoroughly enjoyed.
How is Free too damn expensive?
...snip...
It wasn't free, I paid for it, the base game and the expansions and had to put up with nickle and diming in game on top of it for some stuff like living stories as It wasn't something I played constantly and have installed all the time.
When you buy an expansion you should get all the living stories that came with it too regardless of if you were there logged in or not when they came out.
Lots of whales in the game like to defend but its free yet their wallets say a different story.... I know it was like that in my guild.
It's one thing we didn't have in GW1 beyond some basic stuff that once bought that was it like storage.
Used to play with my wife and son and we said fk it after awhile of crapnet wanting to charge us for the living stories we missed.
You mean you're getting butthurt and think buying this too much?
Of all the fuckery that Anet has done, and I disagree with them on, how they handled the Living World was not one of them. They made it very clear that the Living Word Episodes being free was a reward to those that were actively playing during it's release, as a thank you for being an active player
With that said, If $50 (it's currently 50% off, so at most $100) is too high a bar for you to get the Entire Dragon Saga, ALL the Expansions and ALL the LW content, then I don't know what to tell you.
But that sound entitled as all hell for what amounts to years worth of content to work through.
You have to be effing stupid to pay for the base game pay for expansion and then pay again 100$ to get all the story you should have got free in the first place just because you didnt log in when it came out which gives it to you free anyways....
Your entitled argument is fking stupid, grow a braincell. I just don't have patience anymore for morons that take pride in bending over to take it up the arse like it is some good thing or a point of pride to show they arn't poor broke scrubs.
I already paid full price for the base game x3. I already paid full price for path of fire x3 and already paid full price for Heart of thorn x3..............not to mention a few things in the shop x3 that should really be free in game QoL items.
............ so I sure as fk wont pay for those again just to get the living seasons I should already be getting free...you know kind of like how a new person picking up the game now would be by buying what you just linked...
...snip... Those are its main competitors. They are all much more expensive.
Two wrongs don't make a right much less 3.
Not to be rude, and maybe I’m not understanding, but one might argue you have to be “effing stupid” to purchase base game 3 times…
additionally, the expansions and LW are reasonably priced in my opinion. Sure, buying them all NOW as a new player is a lot upfront. The reality is though you can play base and LW 1 for free which is 40-50 hours of game play alone depending on how much of a completionist you are. Living world from there is less than $20 per season, and expansions are $25.
It sounds like you already own HoT and PoF. You’d have LW1 as it’s free. So in reality you’re saying that EoD, SoTo, LW 2-4 and ice brood saga is too much for you. In total that’s around $105.
To add to that NONE of this needs to be purchased with cash. Grind gold and convert it to gems and you can be all the expansions that way.
So the reality of this is either you A. Just don’t like GW2 and that’s fine. B. Are in a place in life where $105 is too much for you which is also fine. Or i suppose C. You don’t want to grind out the gold.
For many people GW2 is not a cash grab nor is it more expensive than any other MMO. The one thing I will concede on is that they do have items in the shop that easily could be in game and improve player QoL, but I could also make that complaint for any game ever made.
Not to be rude, and maybe I’m not understanding, but one might argue you have to be “effing stupid” to purchase base game 3 times… ...snip...
One time for my account, 1 time for my wife account and 1 time for my sons account = 3 times. You might have missed that in my first post on this.
The arguments are getting more and more stupid and circular so I will recap one last time.
I bought the game when it was b2p BEFORE it went f2p.
Thus I bought the base game x3
PoF x3 and hoT x3
This included getting living world free however they decided you need to log in for each episode the first week it goes live and if you dont then you have to fork out more cash.
That pack that was linked is nice for NEW people as it includes everything but its gaslighting and nickle a diming existing players that could not for w/e reason log in the first week episode went live etc.
That collection isn't a good value if you already bought the base game, pof and hot...now if they had a bundle for all living seasons only that gave a decent discount especially for some of the older stuff I would prob pay for that if I thought the value was justified that said at the price it would cost me to come back for myself, my wife and my son...not going to happen.
If I bought that collection pack for us it would cost me over $400 cdn taxes not included just to play the living world seasons and EoD...very not worth the price for the amount of time we would actually play that content.
Buying the episodes in game is costly if you buy them one by one and still costly if you buy a "season bundle" with gems compared to the collection.
They are nickle and diming people and gaslighting their older players that helped them when the game first came out.
If I used the "logic" some of the people defending this scummy practice that some peeps int his thread are using I would say they are defending free loaders that feel entitled since they now got the base game free and cheaper than what some of us older player had to pay for it.... I m not though for obvious reasons.
This reasoning we have seen in this thread is why gaming, mmo's in particular, have gone to shit.
Also, Tossing insults at me, is not making you look better by the way, it actually, ironically, makes you look worse.
Meh your the one that decided to play the arsehole card and throw insults with the "entitlement accusations" and disparaging my character instead of just politely disagreeing with my assessment. so just stfu and own it, don't act like my response was some kind of unreasonable expectation after your initial comments cause it just makes you look worse I would say.
I did however allow myself to come down to your level and hold a mirror up to your not unusual MO.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Not to be rude, and maybe I’m not understanding, but one might argue you have to be “effing stupid” to purchase base game 3 times… ...snip...
One time for my account, 1 time for my wife account and 1 time for my sons account = 3 times. You might have missed that in my first post on this.
The arguments are getting more and more stupid and circular so I will recap one last time.
I bought the game when it was b2p BEFORE it went f2p.
Thus I bought the base game x3
PoF x3 and hoT x3
This included getting living world free however they decided you need to log in for each episode the first week it goes live and if you dont then you have to fork out more cash.
That pack that was linked is nice for NEW people as it includes everything but its gaslighting and nickle a diming existing players that could not for w/e reason log in the first week episode went live etc.
That collection isn't a good value if you already bought the base game, pof and hot...now if they had a bundle for all living seasons only that gave a decent discount especially for some of the older stuff I would prob pay for that if I thought the value was justified that said at the price it would cost me to come back for myself, my wife and my son...not going to happen.
If I bought that collection pack for us it would cost me over $400 cdn taxes not included just to play the living world seasons and EoD...very not worth the price for the amount of time we would actually play that content.
Buying the episodes in game is costly if you buy them one by one and still costly if you buy a "season bundle" with gems compared to the collection.
They are nickle and diming people and gaslighting their older players that helped them when the game first came out.
If I used the "logic" some of the people defending this scummy practice that some peeps int his thread are using I would say they are defending free loaders that feel entitled since they now got the base game free and cheaper than what some of us older player had to pay for it.... I m not though for obvious reasons.
This reasoning we have seen in this thread is why gaming, mmo's in particular, have gone to shit.
I was wondering if you were buying for others. That makes sense. I apologize for missing that and see how the expansions could add up. I’ll also agree with the fact that not having a Lw bundle outside of the Dragon Saga bundle is stupid.
I do still think though that overall GW2 is more reasonable than most as far as pricing goes. If you and your family ever do get back into it the new expansion SoTo is a separate story from the Dragon Saga.
Ultimately MMO’s and most games in general at this point are out for money. But as far as GW2 goes I do think you get more for your dollar here than almost anywhere else. And the ability to make gold in game and convert it to Gems is something I haven’t seen elsewhere.
I was wondering if you were buying for others. That makes sense. I apologize for missing that and see how the expansions could add up. I’ll also agree with the fact that not having a Lw bundle outside of the Dragon Saga bundle is stupid.
I do still think though that overall GW2 is more reasonable than most as far as pricing goes. If you and your family ever do get back into it the new expansion SoTo is a separate story from the Dragon Saga.
Ultimately MMO’s and most games in general at this point are out for money. But as far as GW2 goes I do think you get more for your dollar here than almost anywhere else. And the ability to make gold in game and convert it to Gems is something I haven’t seen elsewhere.
No worries I am a pretty reasonable guy most times and don't usually have issues if someone doesn't agree with my opinions unless some try to make me out as some entitled, whiny person wanting free hand outs... lol
I tend to vote with my wallet and that means not going back to gw2 for the reasons outlined.
I truly enjoyed gw1 the thing is it's the story that I loved about the game and while I enjoyed the story in gw2 I hate how they gate far too much of it like they are doing since I don't really care much for the endgame play loops.
One week of gold farming and I am bored out of my skull, I just enjoyed playing the story content with my family together just the 3 of us.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Meh your the one that decided to play the arsehole card and throw insults with the "entitlement accusations" and disparaging my character instead of just politely disagreeing with my assessment. so just stfu and own it, don't act like my response was some kind of unreasonable expectation after your initial comments cause it just makes you look worse I would say.
A whole lot of years ago, I was working in Weed California, yah, it exists, you can look it up.
We had a brand new grocery store open during the height of the whole plastic bag craze, where Walmart was charging 5 cents a bag, because it was California, people were buying a lot of those reusable canvas shopping bags. Well anyway, on opening day, this store was giving away nice canvas shopping bags, 1 bag per family, about a 5 dollar value, really nice bag all things said and done, had their name on it, the year and some cute celebratory print, my Coworker got theirs, but I missed the opening day, but went the second day.
Well it was a 1 day event, so I was not going to get a bag, such is life. However, the person ahead of, after spending something like 70 dollars, (back then this bought a lot of food) realized they were not going to get their bag because it was a 1 day event, and they lost their shit.
They started screaming, yelling, and of course the obligatory "I'm never shopping here again" line that we have all come to know and love as the battle cry of when someone didn't get their way.
Would I consider this person reasonable? Rational? Justified in their right to that Free Shopping bag?
No, In fact, I thought they were an unhinged entitled loon, that was running by the Karen Playbook, I was half amazed they didn't start throwing stuff, but in true Karen fashion they not only got the Manager involved, the Owner got involved, who personally escorted them out of their store, and kindly told them they were not welcome back.
Now, life is like that. Somedays we just miss those good deals.
So when you are here telling me you're "Reasonable" and yet:
You knew the Terms and Conditions that had to be met to get the Content for Free.
You knew it was a Limited Time Event
And you knew that you did not partake in it.
While I feel bad for you if it was an involuntary absence, life comes at us hard and fast some days and it sucks each and every time, that still does not change the fact that you missed the event
Anet was clear and honest about their offer
You knew fully that you missed the window of opportunity to get it for free
You also knew that meant you were not going to get it for free, and that if you wanted it, you were going to have to pay for it.
But yet, here we are, with you making a fuss that you feel that somehow the rules should not apply to you, and that you still should have gotten it for free
That is IMHO text book irrational entitlement.
I was not insulting you, I was stating the obvious on how you are acting about this.
Just like calling me an asshole is not the insult people think it is, I am fully aware that I act like one more often then not, and I own up to that.
The insult however was calling me a Moron , and the reason why it made you look bad to do that, is because you when calling me a moron while you directly lacked the ability to self evaluate how entitled you are in fact acting about this.
Now in your defense, this is the most unhinged I recall having seen you act about something, so there is that.
But, you're still being very unreasonable and entitled about not getting your free shit, when you knew damn well that you missed the window to get your free shit, and that meant that you were not going to get that shit for free.
With all those words said, No one with any common sense is taking your side on this, just FYI and if you're going to try and tell your child that you're the one acting rational, well, they are going to end up being the next insane (Karen) I watch have a meltdown at the grocery store because they didn't get their free bag after missing the event when it was being given away.
Anyway, feel free to call me some names now, as I am sure you want to.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I would like to point out, also that when GW2-Core went F2P, those that bought the game received a Shared Inventory Slot, a Level 80 Boost, and a Unique Outfit.
This was done again for those that bought HoT, when it was Bundled with PoF, but they were given a unique glider skin as opposed to an outfit
This was done again for those that bought PoF, when it was Bundled with EoD, but I am not sure of any special skin or outfit given away
Anet did this, so that the players that bought the game still felt like they got their value, and were not cheated out of a better deal as time went on
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
...you can disagree with me all you want but it doesn't make me entitled because I do not agree with your assessment and long winded BS diatribe about terms and BS flawed analogies....I disagree with how they are handling living seasons and for what I think are good reasons, its scummy and I dont like to encourage scummy.
I think your reasoning makes you a moron and you think mine makes me entitled, like I said it's quite reasonable and adult to disagree with others without being an arsehole like you have been doing and as you admittedly often do and if you had done so we would never had this unpleasant tangent.
You however keep harping on about how that makes me look, as if you have some moral high ground, but actually I dont tend to harp on and on at people if I do not agree with them I tend to politely disagree with my reasoning explained and move on without being an arsehole and trying to disparage their character or pick a fight. You however are making that very difficult by continuing to be an arsehole and the way you admittedly often act and respond to people makes you a moron especially when you trying to take some moral ground to put someone else down.
In your case I made an exception and kept responding however I have wasted enough time on your stupidity.
You really need to stfu as you are far, far from being anywhere near being able to "self evaluate" and thus try to harp on about morality and character considering the BS you just spouted about me having a meltdown or acting like a karen, in fact if you could self evaluate you might realize you are the one acting like a karen and rabid fangirl cause I dared to have some criticism to a game you really like.
Take a chill pill, follow the damned forums rules and maybe respond with a modicum of respect or politeness to your fellow forum posters even if what they say puts your knicker in twist.
I said it before and will say it again...but arsehole, self admitted ones in your case, that continually attack peoples character in some dubious butthurt manner cause they dont agree with someone on one point is one of the reasons I visit these forums less and less....especially when you continually get away with your shitty behavior that it come to the point you believe its acceptable as you have CLEARLY made plain.
I mean just the fact you think people need to "take sides" in a discussion when someone is clearly acting like an arsehole and admittedly so just puts the hypocrisy to your words.
Furthermore my opinions do not make me an entitled karen that is having a meltdown because I dared to explain and share in a forum why I think crapnet is being scummy on the living world front, and why I felt it was overly expensive and as such voted with my wallet and stopped playing the game and giving them my money.
You however decidedly are acting like one with the way you responded to me using exactly the karen type tactics of just plain bad behavior while being a self admitted arsehole.
Like I said I wont be responding to you anymore, your not worth the time and I am fairly sure most peeps are not here for such "discussions".
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
GW2 is just too damned expensive to keep up with for such an older mmo even compared to GW1 which i thoroughly enjoyed.
How is Free too damn expensive?
...snip...
It wasn't free, I paid for it, the base game and the expansions and had to put up with nickle and diming in game on top of it for some stuff like living stories as It wasn't something I played constantly and have installed all the time.
When you buy an expansion you should get all the living stories that came with it too regardless of if you were there logged in or not when they came out.
Lots of whales in the game like to defend but its free yet their wallets say a different story.... I know it was like that in my guild.
It's one thing we didn't have in GW1 beyond some basic stuff that once bought that was it like storage.
Used to play with my wife and son and we said fk it after awhile of crapnet wanting to charge us for the living stories we missed.
You mean you're getting butthurt and think buying this too much?
Of all the fuckery that Anet has done, and I disagree with them on, how they handled the Living World was not one of them. They made it very clear that the Living Word Episodes being free was a reward to those that were actively playing during it's release, as a thank you for being an active player
With that said, If $50 (it's currently 50% off, so at most $100) is too high a bar for you to get the Entire Dragon Saga, ALL the Expansions and ALL the LW content, then I don't know what to tell you.
But that sound entitled as all hell for what amounts to years worth of content to work through.
...snip... Those are its main competitors. They are all much more expensive.
Two wrongs don't make a right much less 3.
Games exist in the context of the market around them. Guild Wars 2 exists in the context of the MMO market, in which it is objectively one of the cheapest options. This is fact.
Games exist in the context of the market around them. Guild Wars 2 exists in the context of the MMO market, in which it is objectively one of the cheapest options. This is fact.
I get that and know what some of you are saying and you might have a point however I dont agree fully. I played lots of mmos and GW2 is one that cost me more than most out of all the others I have played.
The mmo games given as examples are all what I consider some of the most expensive mmos to play....blizzard, sqeenix and ESO are not good examples when it comes to monetization and gw2 is in the pack with them. I would certainly not say it is in fact one of the cheaper mmo to play unless you stick to the few examples given.
Anyways, gw2 has gotten old its not aging well IMO and I find the way they handle lots of stuff quite scummy.....bring on gw3 I say. I mean its not like there a lack of game to play..my to do list keep getting bigger while I keep getting older so...I am okay with skipping the rest of gw2.
There much better games to play tbh and mmos are frankly lesser games and genre nowadays.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
...you can disagree with me all you want but it doesn't make me entitled because I do not agree with your assessment and long winded BS diatribe about terms and BS flawed analogies....I disagree with how they are handling living seasons and for what I think are good reasons, its scummy and I dont like to encourage scummy.
Alright you win some fucking internets with this one: Anet said clearly:IF you show up when this is launched you get it for free, otherwise you have to pay for it.
and lo and fucking behold, if you showed up you got it for free, and if you didn't, well, you didn't get it for free.
What is it about that, that you find "Scummy"
Because, all shit aside, I have got to hear your actual reasoning that makes you think you're being rational here, as it goes against pretty much everyfuckingthing I have ever had to deal with in life, both good and bad.
Added: In fact, I'll leave this one open to anyone that wants to step in and explain in your steed why this offer is "scummy" because if your stand is in fact rational, others would also understand your reasoning and maybe be able to explain it to me.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I would like to point out, also that when GW2-Core went F2P, those that bought the game received a Shared Inventory Slot, a Level 80 Boost, and a Unique Outfit.
This was done again for those that bought HoT, when it was Bundled with PoF, but they were given a unique glider skin as opposed to an outfit
This was done again for those that bought PoF, when it was Bundled with EoD, but I am not sure of any special skin or outfit given away
Anet did this, so that the players that bought the game still felt like they got their value, and were not cheated out of a better deal as time went on
I don't recall receiving any of those things but admittedly my memory is getting worse as time goes on. How many shared inventory slots do you have if I may ask?
I would like to point out, also that when GW2-Core went F2P, those that bought the game received a Shared Inventory Slot, a Level 80 Boost, and a Unique Outfit.
This was done again for those that bought HoT, when it was Bundled with PoF, but they were given a unique glider skin as opposed to an outfit
This was done again for those that bought PoF, when it was Bundled with EoD, but I am not sure of any special skin or outfit given away
Anet did this, so that the players that bought the game still felt like they got their value, and were not cheated out of a better deal as time went on
I don't recall receiving any of those things but admittedly my memory is getting worse as time goes on. How many shared inventory slots do you have if I may ask?
Well that would not be a good metric to use with me since I have 18 shared inventory slots, because they are super handy I bought more
The best way to check to see if you got your rewards would be to see if you have the Royal Guard Outfit and Mordrem Glider.
If you have those, then you got the Core & HoT rewards, which would include the 80-Boost and Shared Inventory slot, 100% guaranteed.
I will admit. I am less sure about the 3rd Reward of Slot/Boost, as that might have just been a part of the EoD bundle, but, I bought the cheap pack, so, I don't think I got any frills with it, and I have 3 boosted character, and never, ever, bought a boost.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
...you can disagree with me all you want but it doesn't make me entitled because I do not agree with your assessment and long winded BS diatribe about terms and BS flawed analogies....I disagree with how they are handling living seasons and for what I think are good reasons, its scummy and I dont like to encourage scummy.
Added: In fact, I'll leave this one open to anyone that wants to step in and explain in your steed why this offer is "scummy" because if your stand is in fact rational, others would also understand your reasoning and maybe be able to explain it to me.
I’ll take a step and say that I get both sides. Yes, Anet was clear with how living world would work, and it’s a concept i like. I think it’s great to reward current players with content. Especially content that literally explains the environment around you.
But I also am a player that didn’t get those. I wasn’t around for that option so it does, at times, feel like a cash grab. Even more so when they have, so far, not offered lw content in a bundle outside of the $100 one. So for a player like me who owns all expansions, I’m stuck buying a season at a time and spending more. I’d love to buy all 5 seasons in a bundle and call it good, but I can’t.
Realistically no one is a moron or an arse hole for having their own perspective on this. Both sides are understandable. Neither side is more right than another.
I would like to end by referring back to Asmodeous’ comment earlier about enjoying the story. If you ever do come back I think you’d be blown away with where they’ve taken the story. I’m not completely through yet but it is a beautifully put together story that has so many gut wrenching twists and unexpected turns. In my opinion, a masterpiece of game story telling.
...you can disagree with me all you want but it doesn't make me entitled because I do not agree with your assessment and long winded BS diatribe about terms and BS flawed analogies....I disagree with how they are handling living seasons and for what I think are good reasons, its scummy and I dont like to encourage scummy.
Added: In fact, I'll leave this one open to anyone that wants to step in and explain in your steed why this offer is "scummy" because if your stand is in fact rational, others would also understand your reasoning and maybe be able to explain it to me.
I’ll take a step and say that I get both sides. Yes, Anet was clear with how living world would work, and it’s a concept i like. I think it’s great to reward current players with content. Especially content that literally explains the environment around you.
But I also am a player that didn’t get those. I wasn’t around for that option so it does, at times, feel like a cash grab. Even more so when they have, so far, not offered lw content in a bundle outside of the $100 one. So for a player like me who owns all expansions, I’m stuck buying a season at a time and spending more. I’d love to buy all 5 seasons in a bundle and call it good, but I can’t.
Realistically no one is a moron or an arse hole for having their own perspective on this. Both sides are understandable. Neither side is more right than another.
I would like to end by referring back to Asmodeous’ comment earlier about enjoying the story. If you ever do come back I think you’d be blown away with where they’ve taken the story. I’m not completely through yet but it is a beautifully put together story that has so many gut wrenching twists and unexpected turns. In my opinion, a masterpiece of game story telling.
The thing is, they called what Anet did "Scummy"
And for the life of me, I don't see how that applies, it looks like a very upfront, honest, direct, deal and offer. Nothing underhanded about it
In fact you didn't even need to play the content, all you needed to do was show up.
The expression for this is called "You Missed the Boat"
Not even being insulting with that, it is what it is, that is exactly what entitlement looks like
Now, I fully get there were no package deals and such, somewhat annoying, and I am saying this as someone that stopped playing shortly after HoT, and didn't return till PoF, and then quit shortly after that, and didn't return till EoD, so I had to buy all those LW episodes as well, so I am not someone that got the good deals either, but I knew what the conditions were.
Honestly, the real kicker here, is that if getting this LW content was of upmost importance to them, why didn't they just show up for them?
They had been playing, they made a fuss about buying the base game, so they were around to be able to get all this content for free, and then directly chose not to show up for it, and then turn around and whine that they should have gotten it for free
So, the real mind job here is why didn't they just log in to get it for free, if it was that damn important to them?
Why would they directly pass up their chance to get it all free and then cry that they didn't get it for free and make a fuss that the game is too expensive when they basically sabotaged themselves?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I would like to point out, also that when GW2-Core went F2P, those that bought the game received a Shared Inventory Slot, a Level 80 Boost, and a Unique Outfit.
This was done again for those that bought HoT, when it was Bundled with PoF, but they were given a unique glider skin as opposed to an outfit
This was done again for those that bought PoF, when it was Bundled with EoD, but I am not sure of any special skin or outfit given away
Anet did this, so that the players that bought the game still felt like they got their value, and were not cheated out of a better deal as time went on
I don't recall receiving any of those things but admittedly my memory is getting worse as time goes on. How many shared inventory slots do you have if I may ask?
Well that would not be a good metric to use with me since I have 18 shared inventory slots, because they are super handy I bought more
The best way to check to see if you got your rewards would be to see if you have the Royal Guard Outfit and Mordrem Glider.
If you have those, then you got the Core & HoT rewards, which would include the 80-Boost and Shared Inventory slot, 100% guaranteed.
I will admit. I am less sure about the 3rd Reward of Slot/Boost, as that might have just been a part of the EoD bundle, but, I bought the cheap pack, so, I don't think I got any frills with it, and I have 3 boosted character, and never, ever, bought a boost.
They are handy indeed so I understand your desire to expand them so.
Thank you for your reply. It was very specific and helpful. I will have to clear off some things to have room to install the game but when I am able I will know precisely what to check.
It is also quite possible I just got the basic HoT expansion, so I may have not been eligible for these things anyway.
Comments
GW2 Complete Collectors Edition
Of all the fuckery that Anet has done, and I disagree with them on, how they handled the Living World was not one of them. They made it very clear that the Living Word Episodes being free was a reward to those that were actively playing during it's release, as a thank you for being an active player
With that said, If $50 (it's currently 50% off, so at most $100) is too high a bar for you to get the Entire Dragon Saga, ALL the Expansions and ALL the LW content, then I don't know what to tell you.
But that sound entitled as all hell for what amounts to years worth of content to work through.
ESO shoots out overpriced, underdelivering expansions at a breakneck pace. And has a far more egregious cash shop. And an optional-but-not-really sub fee.
FFXIV has a sub fee and expansions.
WoW has a sub fee, and expansions, and still has the shitting gall to have a cash shop.
Those are its main competitors. They are all much more expensive.
GW2 is atypical. Some enjoy their departure from the norm and others less so. I very much dislike the platforming elements often involved in exploration that at times prevent me from clearing areas.
If I wanted that I'd be playing something that includes Mario as part of the title. From the bit I played of Heart of Thorns it seemed there was going to be more of it rather than less. That subdued my interest and I have since had trouble rekindling it when I try to play the game again as I know it will head in that direction if I stick with it.
The base game is now free, but that wasn't always the case. It had a cost associated with it when I first gave it a go. The b2p nature of the remainder is accompanied by a rather expensive cash shop, with some of that being sold standard features in some MMORPGs.
While the game has interesting elements and understandably appeals to many there are some thorns that come with those roses.
That aside, none of the new MMOs with low PC requirements entice you then? For that matter so many are on consoles these days, though I should bite my tongue as I am the last person in the world who would take that option.
Two wrongs don't make a right much less 3.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Second: It's called Supporting your Hobby, is how you keep the hobby alive, that applies to MMO, they are not some charity for broke ass shits that want everything for free, they are selling a game, and the only people keeping the game alive are the people paying for it.
Finally: Since you are an old school gamer that waxes about the good old days where you had to pay for the base game, pay for expansions, and pay $15+ a month just to play, and didn't get shit for free, you're suddenly acting like an entitled brat about what you're owed for free.
The answer is.. nothing. You're not owed a damn thing for free, the only thing you are owed, is what you pay for, everything else is a gift and you all really need to start respecting and treating it as such.
It's like you totally forgot how these games work at all, and just want to whine and cry that you're not getting enough free shit, when you really are not owed any free shit at all.
Maybe you should go play one of the other MMO that does not give you any free shit to get a wake up call again
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
If you paid for it, you would have had it Anet is typically really good about that, and we would not be having this discussion.
Now, Anet has been very upfront about the Terms and Conditions if you wanted the Free LW episodes, they have also been very upfront about what is included when you bought expansions as well.
They have not played any kind rug pull or deception, or anything else for that matter, in this regard, they have been very open and honest with their player base about this
What is going on here, is purely a problem on your end, where you believe you're entitled to a free gift from Anet when you know very well that you have not met the terms and conditions to get it
Not sure what to tell you in this regard, but you're wrong
I am saying that as someone that has missed some LW episodes as well, and even after buying all the expansions, I still needed to buy them as well, what divides us, is that I did so without any issues because Anet made it very clear the terms and conditions that we as players had to meet if we wanted that content gifted to us for free
I didn't meet them, so I was going to pay for it, if I wanted it, just like anyone and everyone else, you included in that.
Now among any responsible adult, That should be the end of the discussion. If there were conditions you needed to meet, and you did not meet them, you don't get it. That applies to pretty much everything in life.
Just to use another example: Lets say a McDonalds is giving away something like a free cheeseburgers and a festive toy on their 20th Anniversary, a limited time event (which was back in 2016, just FYI)
What you are doing now is, trying to walk into McDonalds today and expect your free cheeseburger and festive gift because you bought a happy meal there a few times, and then, when told "No" by everyone, because it was limited time and you missed it, your response is get upset, throw a tantrum, and follow that up by acting too stupid to realize that it was a limited time event, and you missed it.
Starting to sink in what you look like in this exchange?
Also, Tossing insults at me, is not making you look better by the way, it actually, ironically, makes you look worse.
additionally, the expansions and LW are reasonably priced in my opinion. Sure, buying them all NOW as a new player is a lot upfront. The reality is though you can play base and LW 1 for free which is 40-50 hours of game play alone depending on how much of a completionist you are. Living world from there is less than $20 per season, and expansions are $25.
Meh your the one that decided to play the arsehole card and throw insults with the "entitlement accusations" and disparaging my character instead of just politely disagreeing with my assessment. so just stfu and own it, don't act like my response was some kind of unreasonable expectation after your initial comments cause it just makes you look worse I would say.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
A whole lot of years ago, I was working in Weed California, yah, it exists, you can look it up.
We had a brand new grocery store open during the height of the whole plastic bag craze, where Walmart was charging 5 cents a bag, because it was California, people were buying a lot of those reusable canvas shopping bags. Well anyway, on opening day, this store was giving away nice canvas shopping bags, 1 bag per family, about a 5 dollar value, really nice bag all things said and done, had their name on it, the year and some cute celebratory print, my Coworker got theirs, but I missed the opening day, but went the second day.
Well it was a 1 day event, so I was not going to get a bag, such is life. However, the person ahead of, after spending something like 70 dollars, (back then this bought a lot of food) realized they were not going to get their bag because it was a 1 day event, and they lost their shit.
They started screaming, yelling, and of course the obligatory "I'm never shopping here again" line that we have all come to know and love as the battle cry of when someone didn't get their way.
Would I consider this person reasonable? Rational? Justified in their right to that Free Shopping bag?
No, In fact, I thought they were an unhinged entitled loon, that was running by the Karen Playbook, I was half amazed they didn't start throwing stuff, but in true Karen fashion they not only got the Manager involved, the Owner got involved, who personally escorted them out of their store, and kindly told them they were not welcome back.
Now, life is like that. Somedays we just miss those good deals.
So when you are here telling me you're "Reasonable" and yet:
You knew the Terms and Conditions that had to be met to get the Content for Free.
You knew it was a Limited Time Event
And you knew that you did not partake in it.
While I feel bad for you if it was an involuntary absence, life comes at us hard and fast some days and it sucks each and every time, that still does not change the fact that you missed the event
Anet was clear and honest about their offer
You knew fully that you missed the window of opportunity to get it for free
You also knew that meant you were not going to get it for free, and that if you wanted it, you were going to have to pay for it.
But yet, here we are, with you making a fuss that you feel that somehow the rules should not apply to you, and that you still should have gotten it for free
That is IMHO text book irrational entitlement.
I was not insulting you, I was stating the obvious on how you are acting about this.
Just like calling me an asshole is not the insult people think it is, I am fully aware that I act like one more often then not, and I own up to that.
The insult however was calling me a Moron , and the reason why it made you look bad to do that, is because you when calling me a moron while you directly lacked the ability to self evaluate how entitled you are in fact acting about this.
Now in your defense, this is the most unhinged I recall having seen you act about something, so there is that.
But, you're still being very unreasonable and entitled about not getting your free shit, when you knew damn well that you missed the window to get your free shit, and that meant that you were not going to get that shit for free.
With all those words said, No one with any common sense is taking your side on this, just FYI and if you're going to try and tell your child that you're the one acting rational, well, they are going to end up being the next insane (Karen) I watch have a meltdown at the grocery store because they didn't get their free bag after missing the event when it was being given away.
Anyway, feel free to call me some names now, as I am sure you want to.
This was done again for those that bought HoT, when it was Bundled with PoF, but they were given a unique glider skin as opposed to an outfit
This was done again for those that bought PoF, when it was Bundled with EoD, but I am not sure of any special skin or outfit given away
Anet did this, so that the players that bought the game still felt like they got their value, and were not cheated out of a better deal as time went on
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
and lo and fucking behold, if you showed up you got it for free, and if you didn't, well, you didn't get it for free.
What is it about that, that you find "Scummy"
Because, all shit aside, I have got to hear your actual reasoning that makes you think you're being rational here, as it goes against pretty much everyfuckingthing I have ever had to deal with in life, both good and bad.
Added: In fact, I'll leave this one open to anyone that wants to step in and explain in your steed why this offer is "scummy" because if your stand is in fact rational, others would also understand your reasoning and maybe be able to explain it to me.
I don't recall receiving any of those things but admittedly my memory is getting worse as time goes on. How many shared inventory slots do you have if I may ask?
The best way to check to see if you got your rewards would be to see if you have the Royal Guard Outfit and Mordrem Glider.
If you have those, then you got the Core & HoT rewards, which would include the 80-Boost and Shared Inventory slot, 100% guaranteed.
I will admit. I am less sure about the 3rd Reward of Slot/Boost, as that might have just been a part of the EoD bundle, but, I bought the cheap pack, so, I don't think I got any frills with it, and I have 3 boosted character, and never, ever, bought a boost.
I would like to end by referring back to Asmodeous’ comment earlier about enjoying the story. If you ever do come back I think you’d be blown away with where they’ve taken the story. I’m not completely through yet but it is a beautifully put together story that has so many gut wrenching twists and unexpected turns. In my opinion, a masterpiece of game story telling.
And for the life of me, I don't see how that applies, it looks like a very upfront, honest, direct, deal and offer. Nothing underhanded about it
In fact you didn't even need to play the content, all you needed to do was show up.
The expression for this is called "You Missed the Boat"
Not even being insulting with that, it is what it is, that is exactly what entitlement looks like
Now, I fully get there were no package deals and such, somewhat annoying, and I am saying this as someone that stopped playing shortly after HoT, and didn't return till PoF, and then quit shortly after that, and didn't return till EoD, so I had to buy all those LW episodes as well, so I am not someone that got the good deals either, but I knew what the conditions were.
Honestly, the real kicker here, is that if getting this LW content was of upmost importance to them, why didn't they just show up for them?
They had been playing, they made a fuss about buying the base game, so they were around to be able to get all this content for free, and then directly chose not to show up for it, and then turn around and whine that they should have gotten it for free
So, the real mind job here is why didn't they just log in to get it for free, if it was that damn important to them?
Why would they directly pass up their chance to get it all free and then cry that they didn't get it for free and make a fuss that the game is too expensive when they basically sabotaged themselves?
They are handy indeed so I understand your desire to expand them so.
Thank you for your reply. It was very specific and helpful. I will have to clear off some things to have room to install the game but when I am able I will know precisely what to check.
It is also quite possible I just got the basic HoT expansion, so I may have not been eligible for these things anyway.
Now to decide what to uninstall...