Embers Adrift Free Trial Opens March 1st, Team Adds New Ember Vein Solo Loop, Makes Itemization Clea

System · February 28

Embers Adrift Free Trial Opens March 1st, Team Adds New Ember Vein Solo Loop, Makes Itemization Clearer | MMORPG.com

Embers Adrift is setting up its free trial with the latest update, which also adds a number of technical and quality of life improvements, and adds a new Ember Vein loop option, itemization system overhaul, and new behavioral stat indicators.

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xdave78 · February 28

Hm, does anyone still play this?
Every review on this game is a desaster...

kitarad · February 28

Huh a solo loop. I guess the low population is really hurting the game.

waveslayer · February 28

I will be giving it a go, but I do mainly play solo anymore becuase I have less time to play, solo loop sounds like a good thing, we will see

harken33 · February 28

Not particularly interested in this game but saw the article and recalled a few years back when @Slapshot1188 uncovered and was posting about Tim Anderson aka renfail leaving the project. A mild curiosity question came to mind, was it ever revealed exactly what happened?

KnightFalz · February 28

xdave78 said:

Hm, does anyone still play this?
Every review on this game is a desaster...

Some play it but it is a game of niche appeal so the population isn't large. It has also been mainly focused on group play.

With adding a solo loop it appears the want to expand that focus, or at least experimenting to see if adding such can boost their population.

I'll be giving it another go come March 1st to check out the changes. Perhaps a bit more solo focus can maintain my interest in it.

Kyleran · February 28

harken33 said:

Not particularly interested in this game but saw the article and recalled a few years back when @Slapshot1188 uncovered and was posting about Tim Anderson aka renfail leaving the project. A mild curiosity question came to mind, was it ever revealed exactly what happened?

Nope. Even though @Renfail visits here on occasion he's never seen fit to share what actually happened.

My assumption is he had a difference of opinion with the other principals as the game's design changed significantly after the announcement.

Besides dumping it's original lore which Ren had created they removed most of the magic system which other users have stated was in the early backer only alpha tests.

Ren also seemed to be a bit more hardcore in terms of not adding QOL features preferring to stay true to early EQ1 designs such as no maps or markers.

I recall telling him once I would likely never try the game because he said it would never have an in game compass.

It still doesn't, but I'm told the moon is always visible and in the North so does provide a defacto compass which I am actually fine with.

Another issue was world maps, I don't need quest markers or mini maps, but I do insist on higher level world map which I can view where I and my party members are in relationship to the world.

Extra bonus if there is a pinning / marker system a la 7D2D.

Xiaoki · February 28

kitarad said:

Huh a solo loop. I guess the low population is really hurting the game.

They launched with very little content and with hardcore group only gameplay.

No idea where this went wrong?

KnightFalz · February 28

Xiaoki said:

kitarad said:

Huh a solo loop. I guess the low population is really hurting the game.

They launched with very little content and with hardcore group only gameplay.

No idea where this went wrong?

It hasn't gone wrong yet. When the game must be shut down it has gone wrong. So long as it can endure it is successful, albeit modestly so.

KnightFalz · February 28

Kyleran said:

I recall telling him once I would likely never try the game because he said it would never have an in game compass.

It still doesn't, but I'm told the moon is always visible and in the North so does provide a defacto compass which I am actually fine with.

That's not quite completely true. While the moon is visible on the overland a fair amount of play happens underground and it does nothing to aid navigation then.

yarpenzig · February 28

Xiaoki said:

kitarad said:

Huh a solo loop. I guess the low population is really hurting the game.

They launched with very little content and with hardcore group only gameplay.

No idea where this went wrong?

As a long term player of Embers Adrift I think there are multiple issues that Stormhaven have had to face over the last year. The key issue they face is the fact that they're a small indie studio composed of people who work on this game as a passion project. For those of us that support their efforts, this is a good thing as it means that the game will most likely continue to be improved despite not being a profound financial success.

The first major issue is with the foundational game design of "old-school" MMOs and their tendency to focus on the journey to max level. EverQuest and games like it benefit from being part of the cultural zeigeist similar to WoW in the mid 2000s or games like FortNite or Minecraft today. Due to the sheer quantity of people progressing at different rates and stages of the game you could reliably find someone to party with an explore difficult, group based content. Fast forward a few years and the lower level zones are completely barren and any hopes of finding parties for level appropriate group content are pointless.

Most modern MMOs solve today this in numerous ways such as shortcutting level progression through the ingame marketplace, or by building on rails leveling via soloable quest progression. This essentially removes the social barrier for the bulk majority of the leveling experience and limits the scope of game design to the latest max 10 levels. While Embers provides more and more options for leveling up independently or without a full party today than ever, it still shines the most when you're able to get a full party of players working together.

The 2nd biggest issue facing Embers Adrift is the same issue that table top games such as DND experience: scheduling conflicts. Everyone plays at different times, in different time zones, at different levels with different classes. If you log in from 7PM EST to 11 PM EST and have a level 30, you're going to need to find 3-5 other players from levels 26~ to 34~ that play during a similar time on a regular basis. From 7PM to 11PM that's often achieveable. During 7PM to 11PM during Euro time zones, not so much. During 7PM to 11PM oceanic time zones it's virtually impossible. It only take a few negative experiences with trying to find a group to cause someone to jump ship and move on in a gaming landscape FULL of alternative options.

The last issue Stormhaven has that I want to mention is that their target audience is primarily composed of EverQuest 1 veterans. This same community has been promised a successor in the form of Pantheon for years and have constantly been let down while being milked for their hard earned dollars. These same people are also most interested in the idea of replaying a wizard, necro or enchanter so EA's low fantasy approach doesn't help either. Finally most EQ1 players are at least in their 40s and are in the prime working and child raising years of their life and simply don't have the time to invest in this type of game anymore. For those that do, they can simply boot up P99 or whatever flavor of EQ1 and relive their childhood whenever they want. As an EQOA player with zero interest in playing EQ1, I'm unfortunately forced to be an MMO nomad and don't have this option.

I personally think that Embers Adrift will need well over 100+ players on at any given time before the negative feedback loop that is population can be overcome. I also believe that providing a free to play option could change the math in way that the nooby areas are consistently populated enough to allow players that are genuinely interested in experiencing group content can reliably, organically do so. If you're thinking about trying Embers, please try to at least clear Central Veins with a party before writing the game off. Grouping is where this game shines and the first few levels don't properly communicate that unless you're a social butterfly.

Hopefully see you in game.
Zig

lotrlore · February 28

Kyleran said:

harken33 said:

Not particularly interested in this game but saw the article and recalled a few years back when @Slapshot1188 uncovered and was posting about Tim Anderson aka renfail leaving the project. A mild curiosity question came to mind, was it ever revealed exactly what happened?

Nope. Even though @Renfail visits here on occasion he's never seen fit to share what actually happened.

My assumption is he had a difference of opinion with the other principals as the game's design changed significantly after the announcement.

Besides dumping it's original lore which Ren had created they removed most of the magic system which other users have stated was in the early backer only alpha tests.

Ren also seemed to be a bit more hardcore in terms of not adding QOL features preferring to stay true to early EQ1 designs such as no maps or markers.

I recall telling him once I would likely never try the game because he said it would never have an in game compass.

It still doesn't, but I'm told the moon is always visible and in the North so does provide a defacto compass which I am actually fine with.

Another issue was world maps, I don't need quest markers or mini maps, but I do insist on higher level world map which I can view where I and my party members are in relationship to the world.

Extra bonus if there is a pinning / marker system a la 7D2D.

The minute either side wants to go on the record with all this, we're here to listen and tell the story.

Tiller · February 28

Xiaoki said:

kitarad said:

Huh a solo loop. I guess the low population is really hurting the game.

They launched with very little content and with hardcore group only gameplay.

No idea where this went wrong?

Look at this combat and ask again what went wrong?

Oran1 · February 29

Game is great in many ways even with the lack of players but sadly to me the main problem is the lack of exp gain, it is getting better with each update for sure but if done too late not many people will give it a second chance.

Sovrath · February 29

Tiller said:

Xiaoki said:

kitarad said:

Huh a solo loop. I guess the low population is really hurting the game.

They launched with very little content and with hardcore group only gameplay.

No idea where this went wrong?

Look at this combat and ask again what went wrong?

for a game like this I don't think the combat is bad. It's better than everquest in my opinion and in some ways a bit more impactful than Vanguard.

I think one just registers that "it's combat" and isn't supposed to evoke the same feeling as, say, Black Desert.

It becomes less about creating a feeling like you are in combat and more about a "game" indicating that combat is happening.

Maybe saying it's a representation of combat seen through the lens of earlier games.

Scot · February 29

yarpenzig said:

As a long term player of Embers Adrift I think there are multiple issues that Stormhaven have had to face over the last year. The key issue they face is the fact that they're a small indie studio composed of people who work on this game as a passion project. For those of us that support their efforts, this is a good thing as it means that the game will most likely continue to be improved despite not being a profound financial success.

The first major issue is with the foundational game design of "old-school" MMOs and their tendency to focus on the journey to max level. EverQuest and games like it benefit from being part of the cultural zeigeist similar to WoW in the mid 2000s or games like FortNite or Minecraft today. Due to the sheer quantity of people progressing at different rates and stages of the game you could reliably find someone to party with an explore difficult, group based content. Fast forward a few years and the lower level zones are completely barren and any hopes of finding parties for level appropriate group content are pointless.

Most modern MMOs solve today this in numerous ways such as shortcutting level progression through the ingame marketplace, or by building on rails leveling via soloable quest progression. This essentially removes the social barrier for the bulk majority of the leveling experience and limits the scope of game design to the latest max 10 levels. While Embers provides more and more options for leveling up independently or without a full party today than ever, it still shines the most when you're able to get a full party of players working together.

The 2nd biggest issue facing Embers Adrift is the same issue that table top games such as DND experience: scheduling conflicts. Everyone plays at different times, in different time zones, at different levels with different classes. If you log in from 7PM EST to 11 PM EST and have a level 30, you're going to need to find 3-5 other players from levels 26~ to 34~ that play during a similar time on a regular basis. From 7PM to 11PM that's often achieveable. During 7PM to 11PM during Euro time zones, not so much. During 7PM to 11PM oceanic time zones it's virtually impossible. It only take a few negative experiences with trying to find a group to cause someone to jump ship and move on in a gaming landscape FULL of alternative options.

The last issue Stormhaven has that I want to mention is that their target audience is primarily composed of EverQuest 1 veterans. This same community has been promised a successor in the form of Pantheon for years and have constantly been let down while being milked for their hard earned dollars. These same people are also most interested in the idea of replaying a wizard, necro or enchanter so EA's low fantasy approach doesn't help either. Finally most EQ1 players are at least in their 40s and are in the prime working and child raising years of their life and simply don't have the time to invest in this type of game anymore. For those that do, they can simply boot up P99 or whatever flavor of EQ1 and relive their childhood whenever they want. As an EQOA player with zero interest in playing EQ1, I'm unfortunately forced to be an MMO nomad and don't have this option.

I personally think that Embers Adrift will need well over 100+ players on at any given time before the negative feedback loop that is population can be overcome. I also believe that providing a free to play option could change the math in way that the nooby areas are consistently populated enough to allow players that are genuinely interested in experiencing group content can reliably, organically do so. If you're thinking about trying Embers, please try to at least clear Central Veins with a party before writing the game off. Grouping is where this game shines and the first few levels don't properly communicate that unless you're a social butterfly.

Hopefully see you in game.
Zig

Welcome to the forums!

Scot · February 29

As to the Renfail question that seemed quite obvious to me, he would come on here and got my respect for being honest about the fact that the game was going to take ages to make and development was creeping forward slowly.

I can't imagine that went down well with anyone who has a business frame of mind, the idea that the product might not be released for five, ten, fifteen years, who knows? So that was what created a fracture which led to him leaving. Subsequent to that the game fully released in what looks like a late alpha stage and here we are.

kitarad · February 29

Actually this game was something I truly wanted to play. I just was quite unhappy about the lack of magic but I might take a look again after this solo update.

cheyane · February 29

I put in 70 hours into Darkest Dungeon 2 but it's like banging my head on a wall. I cannot get past the Act 3 boss and my group since then has been losing one team member with memories so I keep redoing Act 1 and 2. I am tired of the game now. So I went back to playing Enshrouded which I laid aside because I was terrified of going into the shroud to get the carpenter. Well I managed it all and even killed the Scavenger Matron.

So since I dropped DD2 I can squeeze in a game and am seriously thinking of this one. I have got to go back and try this because when I last tried it during the free weekend I was not impressed. I am however a huge Everquest fanatic. I need solo content because I suspect the population isn't that great.

I am going to check on getting the game now. I wrote that and in the process convinced myself. How scary is that?

Xiaoki · February 29

Scot said:

As to the Renfail question that seemed quite obvious to me, he would come on here and got my respect for being honest about the fact that the game was going to take ages to make and development was creeping forward slowly.

I can't imagine that went down well with anyone who has a business frame of mind, the idea that the product might not be released for five, ten, fifteen years, who knows? So that was what created a fracture which led to him leaving. Subsequent to that the game fully released in what looks like a late alpha stage and here we are.

RenFAILure lost any and all respect I could possibly muster when his answer to every criticism, no matter how slight, was "Fuck you, our game, our way"

cheyane · February 29

Hmm I think it is still very much group focused so getting a group in a game that is facing population problems might not be the best idea for me right now. rethinking it.

Panther2103 · February 29

I remember a lot of people telling Renfail (me included) that group only was going to hinder population as there has to be some form of solo content. His responses to everyone always seemed crazy to me but I do respect him for sticking to his idea no matter what.

I tried the game before and hated the fact that you can't even get a hang of the game before basically being required to group, EQ and games they were trying to emulate at least had a slight path of solo leveling for a few levels before requiring grouping to go grind mob camps, I felt like I got to play for maybe 10 mins in Embers Adrift before feeling like I needed a group to do anything (and not seeing anyone around). That was launch week though so maybe it's changed since then. I'll give it another shot if there's any form of solo content.

ValdemarJ · February 29

Sovrath said:

Tiller said:

Xiaoki said:

kitarad said:

Huh a solo loop. I guess the low population is really hurting the game.

They launched with very little content and with hardcore group only gameplay.

No idea where this went wrong?

Look at this combat and ask again what went wrong?

for a game like this I don't think the combat is bad. It's better than everquest in my opinion and in some ways a bit more impactful than Vanguard.

I think one just registers that "it's combat" and isn't supposed to evoke the same feeling as, say, Black Desert.

It becomes less about creating a feeling like you are in combat and more about a "game" indicating that combat is happening.

Maybe saying it's a representation of combat seen through the lens of earlier games.

This is the worst combat I've ever seen in a game. I kind of wish Tiller hadn't posted the video. They would have been much better served dropping into a turn-based session for combat and at least letting players do something tactical, or just something at all.

The single player "Erenshor" looks better with more engaging combat and a more interesting world. That is a passion project and it shows. It looks like EQ. This does not... AT ALL.

I cannot imagine people paying a box fee, let alone a subscription, for this drivel being passed off as a "passion project". Something being a passion project doesn't make it fit for retail. There are tons of passion projects. We castigate AAA games for failing, but the bottom of the barrel is still better than this. Redfall is a 10/10 compared to this.

"Where are the standards!" --Gordon Ramsay.

cheyane · February 29

Panther2103 said:

I remember a lot of people telling Renfail (me included) that group only was going to hinder population as there has to be some form of solo content. His responses to everyone always seemed crazy to me but I do respect him for sticking to his idea no matter what.

I tried the game before and hated the fact that you can't even get a hang of the game before basically being required to group, EQ and games they were trying to emulate at least had a slight path of solo leveling for a few levels before requiring grouping to go grind mob camps, I felt like I got to play for maybe 10 mins in Embers Adrift before feeling like I needed a group to do anything (and not seeing anyone around). That was launch week though so maybe it's changed since then. I'll give it another shot if there's any form of solo content.

Well even Everquest in the later levels you could solo with a necromancer, druid , shaman and those insane bards. It took ages though and that was not very optimal. Group experience was much better by leagues. I hardly ever soloed. I did spend a crazy amount of time twiddling my thumbs waiting for a group slot to open in dungeons or my friends to log on and form one.

Kyleran · February 29

cheyane said:

I put in 70 hours into Darkest Dungeon 2 but it's like banging my head on a wall. I cannot get past the Act 3 boss and my group since then has been losing one team member with memories so I keep redoing Act 1 and 2. I am tired of the game now. So I went back to playing Enshrouded which I laid aside because I was terrified of going into the shroud to get the carpenter. Well I managed it all and even killed the Scavenger Matron.

So since I dropped DD2 I can squeeze in a game and am seriously thinking of this one. I have got to go back and try this because when I last tried it during the free weekend I was not impressed. I am however a huge Everquest fanatic. I need solo content because I suspect the population isn't that great.

I am going to check on getting the game now. I wrote that and in the process convinced myself. How scary is that?

I lost all interest in the Darkest Dungeon series as it's gameplay doesn't sound enjoyable, too much RNG which would just have me saving every 10 steps.

Presumably they didn't permit that and there's no way I enjoy rerunning the same content to overcome random chance.

I play games with a Chess mindset, where everything is within my control, random chance interfering with my progression is just not my idea of fun nor do I get any satisfaction from succeeding mostly by good luck.

cheyane · February 29

I have such rotten luck. I have bad luck generally so this type of randomness is even worse for me. I just get no good outcomes. Every hero when stressed gets meltdown. It got to a point where it just wears you down. I was just not enjoying the game any more. The worse thing is when the relationship between your group is on a bad footing. They prevent you from using the skills you rely on and force you to use a skill that isn't even part of your build. I just decided enough and may never go back to it.

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Embers Adrift Free Trial Opens March 1st, Team Adds New Ember Vein Solo Loop, Makes Itemization Clea

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Embers Adrift Free Trial Opens March 1st, Team Adds New Ember Vein Solo Loop, Makes Itemization Clea

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV