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Star Citizen Devs Confirm Some Layoffs As Part Of A 'Restructuring,' Relocation Appears To Be A Fact

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  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481
    Babuinix said:
    Babuinix said:
    Mazeneal said:


    Was warning folks back at the kickstarter.  Supporters blasted me for predicting it wouldn't be released til 2020.  Apparently I was a super optimist.

    Roberts is a poor manager, and folks putting in money needed something other than words from sunshine pumpers.  I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. 

      You are missing my point, entirely.......yeah, I get that you have been here, doing that.  You know, because I just stated I looked.  I stopped at around 2020, and believe you that they go back further. 

       So my question is......if this is a true statement "I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. " Why all this effort, for all these years?  

    Don't you see, they're here to "WARN US"!  :D

    Don't be hyped for games, don't support crowdfunded games! Don't play early builds  and most importantly don't show enjoyment from playing unfinished games! You can't!

    Can't you see?? Game development only takes a lot of time because of Chris Roberts at the helm. He is the evil that delays all games and even cancels them, specially crowdfunded ones. Also, Don't be excited for new patches or features, since they are "not on time" they don't count as "progress".

    He's the reason Chronicles of Elrya went down and Ashes of Creation and Pantheon are delayed don't you see, he personally fired 1900 Microsof/Activision/Blizzard employees, 900 from Sony and 600 from EA along with cancelling many games mid development.

    Throwing wisdom quotes about games and their development like "not gonna be as promised or on time" from it's high perch of dev sapience seemingly unaware that can be applied to most games and their development it's peak angry gamers with broken hearts and suffering from FOMO. B)

    High snark aside, someone else messing up does not somehow absolve other folks from their messing up.

    You can like whatever you like; doesn't mean it wasn't done poorly with hamhanded bluster. There's a decade of videos where they self document their rudderless meanderings.

    Your genius boy absconded from the games business 30ish years ago, and even back then Roberts was noted for delivering things late.  He couldn't resist adding MORE MORE MORE.  Fortunately for him, this was pre-internet, so there wasn't nearly the scope of memory that exists today.  And early in his career there were folks who could ride herd on him.

    It's one thing to make mistakes:  Everyone does that.  To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. 

    Do you really want me to go back and fish out the posts that proclaim release in 2018,2019, 2020, etc? I guess Real Soon Now has a different meaning in the CIG universe.
    Yeah and every great game designer that risked to innovate did and does the same. B)

    See, your problem is that you think Roberts is great game designer.  He was fortunate enough to score a post at Origin.  And he had to be helped to handle logistics, programming, etc, 'cause he wasn't up to it.  And again.  And again.

    Then he went to show them all up at Digital Anvil.  Ooops.

    Just consider, Lord British thinks Chris Roberts is a great game developer.  Let that sink in.

    Babuinix

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481
    edited March 2
    Mazeneal said:
    Babuinix said:
    Mazeneal said:


    Was warning folks back at the kickstarter.  Supporters blasted me for predicting it wouldn't be released til 2020.  Apparently I was a super optimist.

    Roberts is a poor manager, and folks putting in money needed something other than words from sunshine pumpers.  I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. 

      You are missing my point, entirely.......yeah, I get that you have been here, doing that.  You know, because I just stated I looked.  I stopped at around 2020, and believe you that they go back further. 

       So my question is......if this is a true statement "I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. " Why all this effort, for all these years?  

    Don't you see, they're here to "WARN US"!  :D

    Don't be hyped for games, don't support crowdfunded games! Don't play early builds  and most importantly don't show enjoyment from playing unfinished games! You can't!

    Can't you see?? Game development only takes a lot of time because of Chris Roberts at the helm. He is the evil that delays all games and even cancels them, specially crowdfunded ones. Also, Don't be excited for new patches or features, since they are "not on time" they don't count as "progress".

    He's the reason Chronicles of Elrya went down and Ashes of Creation and Pantheon are delayed don't you see, he personally fired 1900 Microsof/Activision/Blizzard employees, 900 from Sony and 600 from EA along with cancelling many games mid development.

    Throwing wisdom quotes about games and their development like "not gonna be as promised or on time" from it's high perch of dev sapience seemingly unaware that can be applied to most games and their development it's peak angry gamers with broken hearts and suffering from FOMO. B)

    High snark aside, someone else messing up does not somehow absolve other folks from their messing up.

    You can like whatever you like; doesn't mean it wasn't done poorly with hamhanded bluster. There's a decade of videos where they self document their rudderless meanderings.

    Your genius boy absconded from the games business 30ish years ago, and even back then Roberts was noted for delivering things late.  He couldn't resist adding MORE MORE MORE.  Fortunately for him, this was pre-internet, so there wasn't nearly the scope of memory that exists today.  And early in his career there were folks who could ride herd on him.

    It's one thing to make mistakes:  Everyone does that.  To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. 

    Do you really want me to go back and fish out the posts that proclaim release in 2018,2019, 2020, etc? I guess Real Soon Now has a different meaning in the CIG universe.
      The funny thing is, I don't think anyone "defending" SC in this thread disagrees that there have been issues, that there have been missed dates, poor management decisions.  Nor thinks Chris Roberts is some genius. 

      Those that call it a scam, and talk all this mad sh1t about a project that they likely didn't invest in, or if they did got a refund, are being cringe.  I personally agree with a large amount of the criticisms, but you know what I do with that energy?  I tell CIG. 

      What has become the scope of this project, and the bulk of that being able to be experienced right now is pretty amazing and not a project that could be done in a traditional development cycle. 

      It gets old when you have the same attacks, and get your points wrong.....Like, the internet was open to the public in 1993, Roberts didn't 'leave' gaming until 2002 and got back in 2011....so to me your whole "genius boy" paragraph is crap.  Either back up this claim he was always late with projects and that they all suffered from feature creep or don't make bogus claims that are just ad homonym.  Unless you know the man, or can backup your claims, this statement is pure BS "To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. ". 

      

    Were you around in '93?  The internet was not a widespread thing even after the web was instituted that year.  You may have a different timeline, but the 2000s were when it made its march to ubiquity.  A lot less eyeballs on things in the early era.

    In Wing Commander, Origin had to assign Warren Spector as co-producer, to handle the logistics, as Roberts just wasn't up to it.  At the end of development they had to bring in a coder to fix the unwieldy ship programming with only a couple of weeks to go before release. Roberts wasn't chosen to direct WC2 (Origin picked the programmer who fixed the code in WC1).  In WC3 and WC4, Roberts directed the video parts of the games. 

    Even in Roberts own wiki you run across things like, "First shown to the public at Summer CES 1991, the project (Strike Commander) suffered from numerous delays and was not released until 1993".  Roberts is quoted as saying that a million man hours of work was wasted.  

    Also: "The game (Freelancer) was commonly regarded as vaporware due to its promised release date of 2001; however, it was eventually released in 2003..."

    Poorly planned feature creep.  It's a defining characteristic of Roberts' developments.

    Roberts did nothing in gaming after getting the boot from the Microsoft acquired Digital Anvil. Though, if you have a relevant resource showing otherwise, I'd like to see it.

    Roberts is involved in a lot self aggrandizement and puffery.  Go look at his IMDB page and notice all the SC videos that he's proclaimed as TV series, and extolled his prowess in the making thereof.  His pronouncements should be taken with a modicum of salt.

    And, believe it or not, my local game group has included six ex-Origin employees.  Two were over last night. :)  So I have gone to the source with my inquiries.  But as anyone in business will tell you, you don't want to go public badmouthing your old companies.

    Oh, and I have met Roberts.  Though only at passing at some of Lord British's parties back in the Castle days. 

    KyleranBabuinix

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • JoeBloberJoeBlober Member RarePosts: 587


    image



    I am playing the alpha since more than 8 years. hundreds hours of entertainment for 35$. No need at all to spend more as everything is available with in game credits. Be side haters hating, there are more than 1.7 individual backers supporting the project. The solo part (Squadron 42) being in polish phase, the MMO (Star Citizen) will get all SQ2 assets as well. The ones lying are big companies looking for profit only vs players at large.
    By the way, average turn over in gaming industry is around 8%, there are mainly reasons for lay off, one of them is relocating staff to minimize infra costs.
    Read my words: collapse 90 days tops"... this prophecy was provided by haters;.. back in mid 2015 :)
    Erillion
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481
    JoeBlober said:


    image



    I am playing the alpha since more than 8 years. hundreds hours of entertainment for 35$. No need at all to spend more as everything is available with in game credits. Be side haters hating, there are more than 1.7 individual backers supporting the project. The solo part (Squadron 42) being in polish phase, the MMO (Star Citizen) will get all SQ2 assets as well. The ones lying are big companies looking for profit only vs players at large.
    By the way, average turn over in gaming industry is around 8%, there are mainly reasons for lay off, one of them is relocating staff to minimize infra costs.
    Read my words: collapse 90 days tops"... this prophecy was provided by haters;.. back in mid 2015 :)

    You neglect to mention when the game was predicted to come out, back in 2015.  And 2024 was not one of the possibilities touted then.

    The question is not about layoffs in particular.  You are right, that sort of stuff happens, even if it's 'Everyone's doing it!'  That one particular quote said it was done in a way to make folks quit, rather than deliver a structured layoff.
    Kyleran

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,178
    Yes a very shitty way to lay off folks. Telling them to move to another country or leave. I'd say that is indefensible.
    BabuinixKyleran

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,653
    Mazeneal said:
    Babuinix said:
    Mazeneal said:


    Was warning folks back at the kickstarter.  Supporters blasted me for predicting it wouldn't be released til 2020.  Apparently I was a super optimist.

    Roberts is a poor manager, and folks putting in money needed something other than words from sunshine pumpers.  I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. 

      You are missing my point, entirely.......yeah, I get that you have been here, doing that.  You know, because I just stated I looked.  I stopped at around 2020, and believe you that they go back further. 

       So my question is......if this is a true statement "I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. " Why all this effort, for all these years?  

    Don't you see, they're here to "WARN US"!  :D

    Don't be hyped for games, don't support crowdfunded games! Don't play early builds  and most importantly don't show enjoyment from playing unfinished games! You can't!

    Can't you see?? Game development only takes a lot of time because of Chris Roberts at the helm. He is the evil that delays all games and even cancels them, specially crowdfunded ones. Also, Don't be excited for new patches or features, since they are "not on time" they don't count as "progress".

    He's the reason Chronicles of Elrya went down and Ashes of Creation and Pantheon are delayed don't you see, he personally fired 1900 Microsof/Activision/Blizzard employees, 900 from Sony and 600 from EA along with cancelling many games mid development.

    Throwing wisdom quotes about games and their development like "not gonna be as promised or on time" from it's high perch of dev sapience seemingly unaware that can be applied to most games and their development it's peak angry gamers with broken hearts and suffering from FOMO. B)

    High snark aside, someone else messing up does not somehow absolve other folks from their messing up.

    You can like whatever you like; doesn't mean it wasn't done poorly with hamhanded bluster. There's a decade of videos where they self document their rudderless meanderings.

    Your genius boy absconded from the games business 30ish years ago, and even back then Roberts was noted for delivering things late.  He couldn't resist adding MORE MORE MORE.  Fortunately for him, this was pre-internet, so there wasn't nearly the scope of memory that exists today.  And early in his career there were folks who could ride herd on him.

    It's one thing to make mistakes:  Everyone does that.  To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. 

    Do you really want me to go back and fish out the posts that proclaim release in 2018,2019, 2020, etc? I guess Real Soon Now has a different meaning in the CIG universe.
      The funny thing is, I don't think anyone "defending" SC in this thread disagrees that there have been issues, that there have been missed dates, poor management decisions.  Nor thinks Chris Roberts is some genius. 

      Those that call it a scam, and talk all this mad sh1t about a project that they likely didn't invest in, or if they did got a refund, are being cringe.  I personally agree with a large amount of the criticisms, but you know what I do with that energy?  I tell CIG. 

      What has become the scope of this project, and the bulk of that being able to be experienced right now is pretty amazing and not a project that could be done in a traditional development cycle. 

      It gets old when you have the same attacks, and get your points wrong.....Like, the internet was open to the public in 1993, Roberts didn't 'leave' gaming until 2002 and got back in 2011....so to me your whole "genius boy" paragraph is crap.  Either back up this claim he was always late with projects and that they all suffered from feature creep or don't make bogus claims that are just ad homonym.  Unless you know the man, or can backup your claims, this statement is pure BS "To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. ". 

      
    Look at my last post and your response. Mine was not the post of a “hater”. Your response was, in my estimation, textbook example of the inability to admit they have any fault and your resorting to reflexive snark defending them.
    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,463
    Babuinix said:
    It's almost like the fact to be able to create those 2 games studios need large ammounts of developers working for a lot of years and that surprisingly they require a salary in change for their work.

    Who would have tought...

    I mean why these companies don't just release games every month instead of spending millions in dev salaries year after year they're so stupid lol   :D

    Apparently your brilliant game genius didn't realize this.  Much like so much else that failed in the ongoing development.
    The only ones who haven't realised it are the ones still crying about it!  B)
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited March 2

    The question is not about layoffs in particular.  You are right, that sort of stuff happens, even if it's 'Everyone's doing it!'  That one particular quote said it was done in a way to make folks quit, rather than deliver a structured layoff.


    I mean we've seen CIG doing large investments on the EU, with them moving into fancy new big offices on Germany and the UK last year. So like the writting was kinda on the wall when it was about where they were investing, and where did they want to grow.

    That said, now they've grown in Europe so much, they probably can afford to cut back teams that segregated across several studios because offices like the UK have the potential to absorb their entire responsabilities with in-house teams.



    So to me the prospect of relocating to another continent is so small upfront that by the time the layoff hit they already had those roles replaced elsewhere. I don't think a company will put much hopes on that sort of relocation if it's upmost unlikely to move a role with the person to start with.






    It's obviously when the company was on a hiring spree and had to grow fast, that a common strategy was to open studios where the talent is, now they have a massive studio they've grown, they can cut back on the inneficiency that is having teams segregated across several studios, and timezones.
  • MazenealMazeneal Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Mazeneal said:
    Babuinix said:
    Mazeneal said:


    Was warning folks back at the kickstarter.  Supporters blasted me for predicting it wouldn't be released til 2020.  Apparently I was a super optimist.

    Roberts is a poor manager, and folks putting in money needed something other than words from sunshine pumpers.  I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. 

      You are missing my point, entirely.......yeah, I get that you have been here, doing that.  You know, because I just stated I looked.  I stopped at around 2020, and believe you that they go back further. 

       So my question is......if this is a true statement "I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. " Why all this effort, for all these years?  

    Don't you see, they're here to "WARN US"!  :D

    Don't be hyped for games, don't support crowdfunded games! Don't play early builds  and most importantly don't show enjoyment from playing unfinished games! You can't!

    Can't you see?? Game development only takes a lot of time because of Chris Roberts at the helm. He is the evil that delays all games and even cancels them, specially crowdfunded ones. Also, Don't be excited for new patches or features, since they are "not on time" they don't count as "progress".

    He's the reason Chronicles of Elrya went down and Ashes of Creation and Pantheon are delayed don't you see, he personally fired 1900 Microsof/Activision/Blizzard employees, 900 from Sony and 600 from EA along with cancelling many games mid development.

    Throwing wisdom quotes about games and their development like "not gonna be as promised or on time" from it's high perch of dev sapience seemingly unaware that can be applied to most games and their development it's peak angry gamers with broken hearts and suffering from FOMO. B)

    High snark aside, someone else messing up does not somehow absolve other folks from their messing up.

    You can like whatever you like; doesn't mean it wasn't done poorly with hamhanded bluster. There's a decade of videos where they self document their rudderless meanderings.

    Your genius boy absconded from the games business 30ish years ago, and even back then Roberts was noted for delivering things late.  He couldn't resist adding MORE MORE MORE.  Fortunately for him, this was pre-internet, so there wasn't nearly the scope of memory that exists today.  And early in his career there were folks who could ride herd on him.

    It's one thing to make mistakes:  Everyone does that.  To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. 

    Do you really want me to go back and fish out the posts that proclaim release in 2018,2019, 2020, etc? I guess Real Soon Now has a different meaning in the CIG universe.
      The funny thing is, I don't think anyone "defending" SC in this thread disagrees that there have been issues, that there have been missed dates, poor management decisions.  Nor thinks Chris Roberts is some genius. 

      Those that call it a scam, and talk all this mad sh1t about a project that they likely didn't invest in, or if they did got a refund, are being cringe.  I personally agree with a large amount of the criticisms, but you know what I do with that energy?  I tell CIG. 

      What has become the scope of this project, and the bulk of that being able to be experienced right now is pretty amazing and not a project that could be done in a traditional development cycle. 

      It gets old when you have the same attacks, and get your points wrong.....Like, the internet was open to the public in 1993, Roberts didn't 'leave' gaming until 2002 and got back in 2011....so to me your whole "genius boy" paragraph is crap.  Either back up this claim he was always late with projects and that they all suffered from feature creep or don't make bogus claims that are just ad homonym.  Unless you know the man, or can backup your claims, this statement is pure BS "To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. ". 

      

    Were you around in '93?  The internet was not a widespread thing even after the web was instituted that year.  You may have a different timeline, but the 2000s were when it made its march to ubiquity.  A lot less eyeballs on things in the early era.

    In Wing Commander, Origin had to assign Warren Spector as co-producer, to handle the logistics, as Roberts just wasn't up to it.  At the end of development they had to bring in a coder to fix the unwieldy ship programming with only a couple of weeks to go before release. Roberts wasn't chosen to direct WC2 (Origin picked the programmer who fixed the code in WC1).  In WC3 and WC4, Roberts directed the video parts of the games. 

    Even in Roberts own wiki you run across things like, "First shown to the public at Summer CES 1991, the project (Strike Commander) suffered from numerous delays and was not released until 1993".  Roberts is quoted as saying that a million man hours of work was wasted.  

    Also: "The game (Freelancer) was commonly regarded as vaporware due to its promised release date of 2001; however, it was eventually released in 2003..."

    Poorly planned feature creep.  It's a defining characteristic of Roberts' developments.

    Roberts did nothing in gaming after getting the boot from the Microsoft acquired Digital Anvil. Though, if you have a relevant resource showing otherwise, I'd like to see it.

    Roberts is involved in a lot self aggrandizement and puffery.  Go look at his IMDB page and notice all the SC videos that he's proclaimed as TV series, and extolled his prowess in the making thereof.  His pronouncements should be taken with a modicum of salt.

    And, believe it or not, my local game group has included six ex-Origin employees.  Two were over last night. :)  So I have gone to the source with my inquiries.  But as anyone in business will tell you, you don't want to go public badmouthing your old companies.

    Oh, and I have met Roberts.  Though only at passing at some of Lord British's parties back in the Castle days. 

    I will give you this, you know how to spin a tale.  I bet you're a great DM.  I stand by what I have said, I don't believe what you have said......but, that shouldn't really matter to you.  Good luck on your quest to do wtf ever it is you think you are doing.  
    BabuinixKyleran
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481
    Mazeneal said:
    Mazeneal said:
    Babuinix said:
    Mazeneal said:


    Was warning folks back at the kickstarter.  Supporters blasted me for predicting it wouldn't be released til 2020.  Apparently I was a super optimist.

    Roberts is a poor manager, and folks putting in money needed something other than words from sunshine pumpers.  I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. 

      You are missing my point, entirely.......yeah, I get that you have been here, doing that.  You know, because I just stated I looked.  I stopped at around 2020, and believe you that they go back further. 

       So my question is......if this is a true statement "I don't expect that anyone personally invested in this now is going to suddenly change their mind. " Why all this effort, for all these years?  

    ....

    High snark aside, someone else messing up does not somehow absolve other folks from their messing up.

    You can like whatever you like; doesn't mean it wasn't done poorly with hamhanded bluster. There's a decade of videos where they self document their rudderless meanderings.

    Your genius boy absconded from the games business 30ish years ago, and even back then Roberts was noted for delivering things late.  He couldn't resist adding MORE MORE MORE.  Fortunately for him, this was pre-internet, so there wasn't nearly the scope of memory that exists today.  And early in his career there were folks who could ride herd on him.

    It's one thing to make mistakes:  Everyone does that.  To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. 

    Do you really want me to go back and fish out the posts that proclaim release in 2018,2019, 2020, etc? I guess Real Soon Now has a different meaning in the CIG universe.
      The funny thing is, I don't think anyone "defending" SC in this thread disagrees that there have been issues, that there have been missed dates, poor management decisions.  Nor thinks Chris Roberts is some genius. 

      Those that call it a scam, and talk all this mad sh1t about a project that they likely didn't invest in, or if they did got a refund, are being cringe.  I personally agree with a large amount of the criticisms, but you know what I do with that energy?  I tell CIG. 

      What has become the scope of this project, and the bulk of that being able to be experienced right now is pretty amazing and not a project that could be done in a traditional development cycle. 

      It gets old when you have the same attacks, and get your points wrong.....Like, the internet was open to the public in 1993, Roberts didn't 'leave' gaming until 2002 and got back in 2011....so to me your whole "genius boy" paragraph is crap.  Either back up this claim he was always late with projects and that they all suffered from feature creep or don't make bogus claims that are just ad homonym.  Unless you know the man, or can backup your claims, this statement is pure BS "To consistently not learn from them, that's another thing entirely. ". 

      

    Were you around in '93?  The internet was not a widespread thing even after the web was instituted that year.  You may have a different timeline, but the 2000s were when it made its march to ubiquity.  A lot less eyeballs on things in the early era.

    In Wing Commander, Origin had to assign Warren Spector as co-producer, to handle the logistics, as Roberts just wasn't up to it.  At the end of development they had to bring in a coder to fix the unwieldy ship programming with only a couple of weeks to go before release. Roberts wasn't chosen to direct WC2 (Origin picked the programmer who fixed the code in WC1).  In WC3 and WC4, Roberts directed the video parts of the games. 

    Even in Roberts own wiki you run across things like, "First shown to the public at Summer CES 1991, the project (Strike Commander) suffered from numerous delays and was not released until 1993".  Roberts is quoted as saying that a million man hours of work was wasted.  

    Also: "The game (Freelancer) was commonly regarded as vaporware due to its promised release date of 2001; however, it was eventually released in 2003..."

    Poorly planned feature creep.  It's a defining characteristic of Roberts' developments.

    Roberts did nothing in gaming after getting the boot from the Microsoft acquired Digital Anvil. Though, if you have a relevant resource showing otherwise, I'd like to see it.

    Roberts is involved in a lot self aggrandizement and puffery.  Go look at his IMDB page and notice all the SC videos that he's proclaimed as TV series, and extolled his prowess in the making thereof.  His pronouncements should be taken with a modicum of salt.

    And, believe it or not, my local game group has included six ex-Origin employees.  Two were over last night. :)  So I have gone to the source with my inquiries.  But as anyone in business will tell you, you don't want to go public badmouthing your old companies.

    Oh, and I have met Roberts.  Though only at passing at some of Lord British's parties back in the Castle days. 

    I will give you this, you know how to spin a tale.  I bet you're a great DM.  I stand by what I have said, I don't believe what you have said......but, that shouldn't really matter to you.  Good luck on your quest to do wtf ever it is you think you are doing.  

    Let me tell you about my Zombie Apocalypse campaign.... ;)

    You wanted quotes, I gave you quotes (from Roberts hisself). 

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481

    Interesting bit too, on checking the wiki credits, Roberts was the big dog on WC1 (along with Warren Spector), Strike Commander, and... 

    There's a bunch of WC add ons he got listed for.  He had little to do with WC2, and WC3 has co-listings for everything. WC4 he's the video director.  Privateer and Starlancer weren't really within his purview, though he often gets credited with them on the internet.

    The disaster of Digital Anvil is self evident.

    He really has less skins on the wall than even I thought.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • lotrlorelotrlore Managing EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, Member RarePosts: 671
    I love Star Citizen forums threads. These give me life.
    WargfootScotBabuinixErillion
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,463
    Mazeneal said:
    Were you around in '93?  The internet was not a widespread thing even after the web was instituted that year.  You may have a different timeline, but the 2000s were when it made its march to ubiquity.  A lot less eyeballs on things in the early era.

    In Wing Commander, Origin had to assign Warren Spector as co-producer, to handle the logistics, as Roberts just wasn't up to it.  At the end of development they had to bring in a coder to fix the unwieldy ship programming with only a couple of weeks to go before release. Roberts wasn't chosen to direct WC2 (Origin picked the programmer who fixed the code in WC1).  In WC3 and WC4, Roberts directed the video parts of the games. 

    Even in Roberts own wiki you run across things like, "First shown to the public at Summer CES 1991, the project (Strike Commander) suffered from numerous delays and was not released until 1993".  Roberts is quoted as saying that a million man hours of work was wasted.  

    Also: "The game (Freelancer) was commonly regarded as vaporware due to its promised release date of 2001; however, it was eventually released in 2003..."

    Poorly planned feature creep.  It's a defining characteristic of Roberts' developments.

    Roberts did nothing in gaming after getting the boot from the Microsoft acquired Digital Anvil. Though, if you have a relevant resource showing otherwise, I'd like to see it.

    Roberts is involved in a lot self aggrandizement and puffery.  Go look at his IMDB page and notice all the SC videos that he's proclaimed as TV series, and extolled his prowess in the making thereof.  His pronouncements should be taken with a modicum of salt.

    And, believe it or not, my local game group has included six ex-Origin employees.  Two were over last night. :)  So I have gone to the source with my inquiries.  But as anyone in business will tell you, you don't want to go public badmouthing your old companies.

    Oh, and I have met Roberts.  Though only at passing at some of Lord British's parties back in the Castle days. 
    I will give you this, you know how to spin a tale.  I bet you're a great DM.  I stand by what I have said, I don't believe what you have said......but, that shouldn't really matter to you.  Good luck on your quest to do wtf ever it is you think you are doing.  

    You're wasting your time  :D 

    Apparently during Chris Roberts teen years and he was already coding and selling games for the BBC micro, he also stole the girlfriends AND lunch money of a bunch of other guys. Apparently they've became bitter and resentful for life.  :D
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,485
    edited March 3
    lotrlore said:
    I love Star Citizen forums threads. These give me life.
    The game is pretty much like the recent Willy's Chocolate Experience in Glasgow; disappointing.



    Anyways the stories ex-employees are starting to share will hopefully expose CIG true intentions a bit more.


    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,618
    lotrlore said:
    I love Star Citizen forums threads. These give me life.

    The drama certainly keeps the forums from up and dying.......
    Babuinix

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,653
    lotrlore said:
    I love Star Citizen forums threads. These give me life.
    They used to.  But this status quo has gone on for so long that the thrill just isn't there any more. 

    Honestly I'm hoping we can shift to some CU threads over the next few months after Mark's outlandish moonshot statement about 2025.  At least it's something a bit new.

    Unless of course we actually get to PLAY some kind of Squadron 42 game before them.  Who knows, maybe all these zombie development games will start to feel pressure from each other and start moving to an actual release state?

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,060
    lotrlore said:
    I love Star Citizen forums threads. These give me life.
    The gift that keeps on giving.


    ScotErillion

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • EldrachEldrach Member RarePosts: 465
    I do think we’ll get SQ42 - they’re already «delaying» it further by splitting it into 3 «episodes» - i have a feeling the entire «SQ42» will be the «intro» to CU statement will be hard to pull off as they’re not even done with the second star system.

    Just to have it said: They have come a long way the last years. Stanton is starting to feel like an actual place. Unfortunately it still feels empty in terms of story, just a couple of actual quest givers in an entire star system feels far from fleshed out. Quests are also fairly generic, but the planets are starting to look quite nice. 
    Still quite massive issues with poor framerates on mid-quality hardware and extremely varying server performance.
    I also wonder how the system will feel if they limit it to 128 people - it should’ve evolved into an «mmo» at this point

    KyleranBabuinix
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,439

    Unless of course we actually get to PLAY some kind of Squadron 42 game before them.  Who knows, maybe all these zombie development games will start to feel pressure from each other and start moving to an actual release state?
    Naaaa...ain't gonna happen. :)
    BabuinixKyleran
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481
    Babuinix said:
    Mazeneal said:
    Were you around in '93?  The internet was not a widespread thing even after the web was instituted that year.  You may have a different timeline, but the 2000s were when it made its march to ubiquity.  A lot less eyeballs on things in the early era.

    In Wing Commander, Origin had to assign Warren Spector as co-producer, to handle the logistics, as Roberts just wasn't up to it.  At the end of development they had to bring in a coder to fix the unwieldy ship programming with only a couple of weeks to go before release. Roberts wasn't chosen to direct WC2 (Origin picked the programmer who fixed the code in WC1).  In WC3 and WC4, Roberts directed the video parts of the games. 

    Even in Roberts own wiki you run across things like, "First shown to the public at Summer CES 1991, the project (Strike Commander) suffered from numerous delays and was not released until 1993".  Roberts is quoted as saying that a million man hours of work was wasted.  

    Also: "The game (Freelancer) was commonly regarded as vaporware due to its promised release date of 2001; however, it was eventually released in 2003..."

    Poorly planned feature creep.  It's a defining characteristic of Roberts' developments.

    Roberts did nothing in gaming after getting the boot from the Microsoft acquired Digital Anvil. Though, if you have a relevant resource showing otherwise, I'd like to see it.

    Roberts is involved in a lot self aggrandizement and puffery.  Go look at his IMDB page and notice all the SC videos that he's proclaimed as TV series, and extolled his prowess in the making thereof.  His pronouncements should be taken with a modicum of salt.

    And, believe it or not, my local game group has included six ex-Origin employees.  Two were over last night. :)  So I have gone to the source with my inquiries.  But as anyone in business will tell you, you don't want to go public badmouthing your old companies.

    Oh, and I have met Roberts.  Though only at passing at some of Lord British's parties back in the Castle days. 
    I will give you this, you know how to spin a tale.  I bet you're a great DM.  I stand by what I have said, I don't believe what you have said......but, that shouldn't really matter to you.  Good luck on your quest to do wtf ever it is you think you are doing.  

    You're wasting your time  :D 

    Apparently during Chris Roberts teen years and he was already coding and selling games for the BBC micro, he also stole the girlfriends AND lunch money of a bunch of other guys. Apparently they've became bitter and resentful for life.  :D

    Because we all know that coding for the BBC micro is a sure sign of a good game developer in 2012.   And a shining example of sainthood and good character.

    Roberts had to have someone come in and clean up his WC1 coding to get the ships to work.  And that person got nabbed to direct WC2.
    BabuinixKyleran

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,439

    Because we all know that coding for the BBC micro is a sure sign of a good game developer in 2012.   And a shining example of sainthood and good character.

    Roberts had to have someone come in and clean up his WC1 coding to get the ships to work.  And that person got nabbed to direct WC2.
    Ok, now even I have to come in and defend the guy! I learnt computing and coding on a BBC Micro B. I am still awaiting my sainthood from the Vatican so I am sure Chris is in the same position. 
    Babuinix
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481
    Scot said:

    Because we all know that coding for the BBC micro is a sure sign of a good game developer in 2012.   And a shining example of sainthood and good character.

    Roberts had to have someone come in and clean up his WC1 coding to get the ships to work.  And that person got nabbed to direct WC2.
    Ok, now even I have to come in and defend the guy! I learnt computing and coding on a BBC Micro B. I am still awaiting my sainthood from the Vatican so I am sure Chris is in the same position. 

    Genuflect, Genuflect, Genuflect!
    Scot

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,458
    I like to bag on Star Citizen as much as any other disgruntled vet; however, layoffs are pretty much a part of any company's history.   

    I'm not convinced there is much to see here.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited March 3
    Wargfoot said:
    I'm not convinced there is much to see here.


    Nope indeed. It's even not even the first time US studios got hit by layoffs, 2017 or so Austin got downsized as roles and teams relocated to other studios.  

    And just this like, when news broke then we had the same exagerated takes of what that does or doesn't mean.



    US has been downsizing gamedev roles for years now, they did massive investments on Europe moving in to big new offices, so rather visible centralization effort of game dev, which alone justifies why this been happening without even considering the financial context attm which should also add the need for financial discipline.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    edited March 4
    >>> (speaking about MaxBacon) >>>> "Have fun ( I believe this was your signature? :D ) " >>>


    It was not.


    Have fun ;-)
    MazenealBabuinixShaighArglebargle
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