Seems like it's yet another endless beta MMO with no direction or plan in sight. Wonderful.
Why go to all the trouble these days of finishing games. People are happy to just pay for early access. Most of them don't finish or end up garbage after the milking is done
The issue is they don't have the money to finish a game. Early access, crowd funding, these things give developers (of varying degrees of experience and/or skill) the opportunity to make a game.
The second issue is that many of them aren't up to the task.
And even if they have the skill or experience, they might not be able to do it.
Look at the recent "Wayward Realms" kickstarter that just launched. It's run by two developers who created Daggerfall. But their kickstarter shows very little, even though they've worked on it for several years.
As someone who has most of their crowdfunded projects actually launching, I'll tell you that I gave money because I'd "love" for it to work. But if someone were to ask me if I thought it had a better chance at happening I'd say "no, I don't really think it will happen.," Heck even if it happened, they are raising money so they can make it to Early Access and get a publisher.
bleah.
It would be a lot more transparent of them if they need the money to finish (which I'm sure is what's going on here) to just market it as crowdfunding/kickstarter. Trying to talk about it like, "We're LAUNCHING early access THAT YOU CAN BUY INTO," is just disingenous. I appreciate that investors only want to put money into MMOs that are built to have very broad appeal (i.e., not Pax Dei), so we don't get these games without another source of funding, but selling access to a very rough early alpha as if you get to "play the game early" is incredibly unethical.
While I will probably buy it... this is a huge glaring 4 alarm red flag:
The exact business model and pricing of Pax Dei after Early Access are not defined yet. After release we plan to introduce, on top of the initial game purchase, a fee (subscription or similar) for on-going access to the game and plots. Founder's Packs include the initial game purchase, and the owner of a Founder’s Pack will also retain character slots and exclusive recipes included in their pack. We will be transparent about our future pricing plans and provide more details as we approach the official release.
I'll give it a try. I don't get hyped by 'potential' and things like that. I do enjoy the process of troubleshooting and providing feedback, so for me, it'll be fun.
I will stand out from the doom and gloom and say my guild and I loved this game and played extensively during Alpha 2. I am fairly certain I will be playing well after 1 month. Their dungeon designs were really cool and there is alot to work with here.
I thought it was beautiful... but lacking a lot of actual GAME.
That said, our one guy who we usually charge with building our base thought it was one of the best games we played in recent memory
I think, too, the developers know it's a bit barebones when you look at the ambition they have for its future. They are essentially trying to build a medieval EVE Online, so early access and developing with fans actually makes sense here (and as someone who hates that EVERYTHING is launching into EA, I can't believe I just wrote that sentence).
That said, it's going to be interesting to see if they can trickle updates out fast enough to keep players engaged - especially since they are aiming to create a fully persistent, liveable world. If players feel like they can drop in and out with every update, something just isn't clicking as a result.
Time will tell (and we'll be watching it as well - full early access review likely to come sometime in the beginning of July)
Yeah... and the design is HIGHLY relying on GROUPS to accomplish things. So if your group's main blacksmith decides to stop playing, it will hurt trying to get someone else with similar skill.
Yea - though, if they pull it off, your group's blacksmith won't be the only blacksmith you can rely on. The village/town/kingdom should be full of them, and the in-game market (when it's added along with the gold economy) should fill the void. It just might be more expensive in the short term.
That said, this is all dependent on it actually working as intended, which is a tall order in this day and age.
Right. It can work if there is a market. But there wasn't in the last test and I haven't heard that it will be a launch or even near launch feature. The challenge is that it's hard to get people back once they drift. Sure folks might come back to check out a big patch but it's never the same.
If they launch with no market, and groups start to lose key members its just going to make it harder to keep the group together. You can plug a hole in the dam, but eventually you can't reach the new hole because you are already plugging the old one. Remember... it's a GRIND to get good at these professions. You have to work together and funnel resources to someone in order to help them progress. Its unlikely any group smaller than 40 or 50 is going to have 2 blacksmiths, 2 leather workers, 2 tailors... etc...
We shall see. Sound like my group will be there on day 1. It remains to be seen if we will be there on day 60.
yea, one of the main things on the roadmap, at least as it was described to me, was getting the market in the game with the gold economy. But it won't launch into early access with one. The foundation of what they are building is there, and that's what the EA launch will have it seems.
I totally get that if the market and economy aren't in there soon, players will lose interest. But I think they know that, too. I think if there was any other duo at the helm trying to build this I'd be kind of "doom and gloom" (not saying you are, but you are the Harbinger :P), but given the both have backgrounds working on the definitive emergent gameplay social sandbox MMO (and one of them co-founded the EVE Online studio as well), I'm willing to give them some time.
A year is a long time to spend in early access no matter which way you cut it, but given that's their goal, and EA games can spend eternities before they flip the 1.0 switch, I'm hoping they put the pieces together to really make something good, even great.
Then again, this could be wishful thinking and it just doesn't have the staying power. It's not the first game to attempt this, and it won't be the last. I just think I have a bit more confidence in this one given the developer's bonafides working on it.
It looks like something up my alley, but my main problem is that it seems really early? Seems like a fast cash grab rather than building something that will last.
I will stand out from the doom and gloom and say my guild and I loved this game and played extensively during Alpha 2. I am fairly certain I will be playing well after 1 month. Their dungeon designs were really cool and there is alot to work with here.
I thought it was beautiful... but lacking a lot of actual GAME.
That said, our one guy who we usually charge with building our base thought it was one of the best games we played in recent memory
I think, too, the developers know it's a bit barebones when you look at the ambition they have for its future. They are essentially trying to build a medieval EVE Online, so early access and developing with fans actually makes sense here (and as someone who hates that EVERYTHING is launching into EA, I can't believe I just wrote that sentence).
That said, it's going to be interesting to see if they can trickle updates out fast enough to keep players engaged - especially since they are aiming to create a fully persistent, liveable world. If players feel like they can drop in and out with every update, something just isn't clicking as a result.
Time will tell (and we'll be watching it as well - full early access review likely to come sometime in the beginning of July)
Yeah... and the design is HIGHLY relying on GROUPS to accomplish things. So if your group's main blacksmith decides to stop playing, it will hurt trying to get someone else with similar skill.
Yea - though, if they pull it off, your group's blacksmith won't be the only blacksmith you can rely on. The village/town/kingdom should be full of them, and the in-game market (when it's added along with the gold economy) should fill the void. It just might be more expensive in the short term.
That said, this is all dependent on it actually working as intended, which is a tall order in this day and age.
Right. It can work if there is a market. But there wasn't in the last test and I haven't heard that it will be a launch or even near launch feature. The challenge is that it's hard to get people back once they drift. Sure folks might come back to check out a big patch but it's never the same.
If they launch with no market, and groups start to lose key members its just going to make it harder to keep the group together. You can plug a hole in the dam, but eventually you can't reach the new hole because you are already plugging the old one. Remember... it's a GRIND to get good at these professions. You have to work together and funnel resources to someone in order to help them progress. Its unlikely any group smaller than 40 or 50 is going to have 2 blacksmiths, 2 leather workers, 2 tailors... etc...
We shall see. Sound like my group will be there on day 1. It remains to be seen if we will be there on day 60.
yea, one of the main things on the roadmap, at least as it was described to me, was getting the market in the game with the gold economy. But it won't launch into early access with one. The foundation of what they are building is there, and that's what the EA launch will have it seems.
I totally get that if the market and economy aren't in there soon, players will lose interest. But I think they know that, too. I think if there was any other duo at the helm trying to build this I'd be kind of "doom and gloom" (not saying you are, but you are the Harbinger :P), but given the both have backgrounds working on the definitive emergent gameplay social sandbox MMO (and one of them co-founded the EVE Online studio as well), I'm willing to give them some time.
A year is a long time to spend in early access no matter which way you cut it, but given that's their goal, and EA games can spend eternities before they flip the 1.0 switch, I'm hoping they put the pieces together to really make something good, even great.
Then again, this could be wishful thinking and it just doesn't have the staying power. It's not the first game to attempt this, and it won't be the last. I just think I have a bit more confidence in this one given the developer's bonafides working on it.
I think jaded is the word
Ive lost track of the times folks with a great title in their resume failed to deliver on their follow up.
That said, my group is officially in for this train ride. So there should be around 10 of us out staking claims in the wild on launch day. We will see if the train makes it up the hill to launch.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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My pals in my guild were blown away with the potential and existing crafting system from the last round of testing prior to this announcement. I have to agree with them when I tested the game and joined them. I enjoyed the crafting and sense of world immersion but can see how early the game is at. I'll probably wait and see what the plan is for this game but will support them for the first tier pricing/
I thought the publisher is Main Frame and the co publisher is New Tales?
I do not pay for "potential." I pay for a finished, polished, 100% ready-for-market game.
If you went out for a burger, how pleased would you be if you paid your money, only to be presented with a pound of raw ground beef and a pile of vegetables?
I do not pay for "potential." I pay for a finished, polished, 100% ready-for-market game.
If you went out for a burger, how pleased would you be if you paid your money, only to be presented with a pound of raw ground beef and a pile of vegetables?
I can't wait for this nonsense to extend to other areas of entertainment like TV. "Follow Your Show Being Made! Buy the T-shirt before anyone else!"...show cancelled, no refunds.
I was unable to play it. I'm left handed and saw no place to change the key binding to accommodate my left handedness. I moved around a bit to see how it felt. It did feel very clunky.
I don't mind games that aren't on rails. In fact, I prefer them. Some quests are nice especially in the endgame to earn rare materials for crafting, but I prefer a player driven "sandbox" style game over a rollercoaster.
That said, I don't think I'll pay for that early of an early access. Maybe if it were in beta and it felt a little more playable. Early access for a game in alpha is a mistake every time.
I do not pay for "potential." I pay for a finished, polished, 100% ready-for-market game.
If you went out for a burger, how pleased would you be if you paid your money, only to be presented with a pound of raw ground beef and a pile of vegetables?
I can't wait for this nonsense to extend to other areas of entertainment like TV. "Follow Your Show Being Made! Buy the T-shirt before anyone else!"...show cancelled, no refunds.
Well... to a certain extent we DO have it today.
A TV series sometimes doesn't even get a full season (even though we now call a "season" 6 episodes... but that's a different rant). Or gets cancelled between seasons. So all those plot twists and character arcs get left hanging in the wind.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I do not pay for "potential." I pay for a finished, polished, 100% ready-for-market game.
If you went out for a burger, how pleased would you be if you paid your money, only to be presented with a pound of raw ground beef and a pile of vegetables?
I can't wait for this nonsense to extend to other areas of entertainment like TV. "Follow Your Show Being Made! Buy the T-shirt before anyone else!"...show cancelled, no refunds.
Nothing tells me a studio has no clue what kind of game they want to make more than "we're making it along with our players". Hello, most players have zero idea or understanding about the difference between good and bad game design, in that design phase. We're good at ferreting out problems, issues, and bad design once we're playing, but we're generally horrible at coming up with good solutions to those that work well in the entire context of the game itself.
I played the beta for all of 20 minutes the other month and I'll tell ya, it's too soon to release into ea. It won't be polished, it'll be buggy, janky, and it will lose its player count after the first month. It certainly won't be a blockbuster.
Yes. I think I put in around 4 hours myself but it was enough. I talked with a friend who played the whole week and we were in agreement that it needed another year or two of closed development. And that wasn't even 2 months ago.
Played the test. Boy oh boy do they have a lot of fat to trim. The whole crafting system is a massive cluster #%$&@. They have a ton of work to try and save this. If they leave it the way it is it will be just like every other game like this. Nothing this game is doing hasn't been tried before.
I'm glad that the guys dared to go into early access and give us the opportunity to play longer than in the short alphas. Sure the team will cope with everything and the project will become a standard.
Really hope that in the future there will be a voice chat that will enliven the world, because communicating by text in multiplayer now complicates everything.
I'm glad that the guys dared to go into early access and give us the opportunity to play longer than in the short alphas. Sure the team will cope with everything and the project will become a standard.
Really hope that in the future there will be a voice chat that will enliven the world, because communicating by text in multiplayer now complicates everything.
welcome to the forums!
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
The game seems to be developing on superspeed. Wasn't this just announced a few months ago? I predict a very bad launch and extremely low on content and full of bugs.
I do not pay for "potential." I pay for a finished, polished, 100% ready-for-market game.
If you went out for a burger, how pleased would you be if you paid your money, only to be presented with a pound of raw ground beef and a pile of vegetables?
I can't wait for this nonsense to extend to other areas of entertainment like TV. "Follow Your Show Being Made! Buy the T-shirt before anyone else!"...show cancelled, no refunds.
Nothing tells me a studio has no clue what kind of game they want to make more than "we're making it along with our players". Hello, most players have zero idea or understanding about the difference between good and bad game design, in that design phase. We're good at ferreting out problems, issues, and bad design once we're playing, but we're generally horrible at coming up with good solutions to those that work well in the entire context of the game itself.
Exactly, look at how many problems are brought up on here compared to solutions. But we do have solutions on here, threads of them, so go and look at how many of us agree in those! I see this as marketing rather than development strategy, but if this is a development strategy they will only listen to the whales.
The game seems to be developing on superspeed. Wasn't this just announced a few months ago? I predict a very bad launch and extremely low on content and full of bugs.
No. It wasn’t. It’s been in development since 2019.
That doesn’t mean your prediction is wrong though.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I do not pay for "potential." I pay for a finished, polished, 100% ready-for-market game.
If you went out for a burger, how pleased would you be if you paid your money, only to be presented with a pound of raw ground beef and a pile of vegetables?
I can't wait for this nonsense to extend to other areas of entertainment like TV. "Follow Your Show Being Made! Buy the T-shirt before anyone else!"...show cancelled, no refunds.
Nothing tells me a studio has no clue what kind of game they want to make more than "we're making it along with our players". Hello, most players have zero idea or understanding about the difference between good and bad game design, in that design phase. We're good at ferreting out problems, issues, and bad design once we're playing, but we're generally horrible at coming up with good solutions to those that work well in the entire context of the game itself.
Exactly, look at how many problems are brought up on here compared to solutions. But we do have solutions on here, threads of them, so go and look at how many of us agree in those! I see this as marketing rather than development strategy, but if this is a development strategy they will only listen to the whales.
My friend already has the top package ($99). He’s the guy we usually have build our base. He did it to get more “property slots”. I tried to explain that they weren’t needed since the whole guild would plant our property markers and it would be guild land. He didn’t care. His words were “I just really loved the game when we played”
So far that’s the limit of a whale… but since they haven’t announced the end state monetization I can see it getting crazy.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Seems like it's yet another endless beta MMO with no direction or plan in sight. Wonderful.
Why go to all the trouble these days of finishing games. People are happy to just pay for early access. Most of them don't finish or end up garbage after the milking is done
Ask those that have finished them. Many early access games reach a release state. It is early access MMORPGs that have been especially problematic.
Seems like it's yet another endless beta MMO with no direction or plan in sight. Wonderful.
Why go to all the trouble these days of finishing games. People are happy to just pay for early access. Most of them don't finish or end up garbage after the milking is done
The issue is they don't have the money to finish a game. Early access, crowd funding, these things give developers (of varying degrees of experience and/or skill) the opportunity to make a game.
The second issue is that many of them aren't up to the task.
And even if they have the skill or experience, they might not be able to do it.
Look at the recent "Wayward Realms" kickstarter that just launched. It's run by two developers who created Daggerfall. But their kickstarter shows very little, even though they've worked on it for several years.
As someone who has most of their crowdfunded projects actually launching, I'll tell you that I gave money because I'd "love" for it to work. But if someone were to ask me if I thought it had a better chance at happening I'd say "no, I don't really think it will happen.," Heck even if it happened, they are raising money so they can make it to Early Access and get a publisher.
bleah.
It would be a lot more transparent of them if they need the money to finish (which I'm sure is what's going on here) to just market it as crowdfunding/kickstarter. Trying to talk about it like, "We're LAUNCHING early access THAT YOU CAN BUY INTO," is just disingenous. I appreciate that investors only want to put money into MMOs that are built to have very broad appeal (i.e., not Pax Dei), so we don't get these games without another source of funding, but selling access to a very rough early alpha as if you get to "play the game early" is incredibly unethical.
How is it disingenuous or unethical? The offer for early access is clear enough. Buy into it or don't. What is unclear at this point is the cost after. That doesn't so much matter until 'after' is close to actually being a thing by which time those details will likely be known.
It sounds so romantic to put it in that way 'develop the game alongside the players' when in reality the players will be experiencing bugs galore and more time on the log in screen than actually playing. I wish them the very best of luck but I'll pass.
It sounds so romantic to put it in that way 'develop the game alongside the players' when in reality the players will be experiencing bugs galore and more time on the log in screen than actually playing. I wish them the very best of luck but I'll pass.
Ok we can chalk that up as another reason players join the development of a game this early, our communities gals find it romantic.
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Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
It would be a lot more transparent of them if they need the money to finish (which I'm sure is what's going on here) to just market it as crowdfunding/kickstarter. Trying to talk about it like, "We're LAUNCHING early access THAT YOU CAN BUY INTO," is just disingenous. I appreciate that investors only want to put money into MMOs that are built to have very broad appeal (i.e., not Pax Dei), so we don't get these games without another source of funding, but selling access to a very rough early alpha as if you get to "play the game early" is incredibly unethical.
www.joshmcneill.com
Or not, i'm not 100% sure yet.
What is Pax Dei again?
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
I totally get that if the market and economy aren't in there soon, players will lose interest. But I think they know that, too. I think if there was any other duo at the helm trying to build this I'd be kind of "doom and gloom" (not saying you are, but you are the Harbinger :P), but given the both have backgrounds working on the definitive emergent gameplay social sandbox MMO (and one of them co-founded the EVE Online studio as well), I'm willing to give them some time.
A year is a long time to spend in early access no matter which way you cut it, but given that's their goal, and EA games can spend eternities before they flip the 1.0 switch, I'm hoping they put the pieces together to really make something good, even great.
Then again, this could be wishful thinking and it just doesn't have the staying power. It's not the first game to attempt this, and it won't be the last. I just think I have a bit more confidence in this one given the developer's bonafides working on it.
Ive lost track of the times folks with a great title in their resume failed to deliver on their follow up.
That said, my group is officially in for this train ride. So there should be around 10 of us out staking claims in the wild on launch day. We will see if the train makes it up the hill to launch.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I do not pay for "potential." I pay for a finished, polished, 100% ready-for-market game.
If you went out for a burger, how pleased would you be if you paid your money, only to be presented with a pound of raw ground beef and a pile of vegetables?
I don't mind games that aren't on rails. In fact, I prefer them. Some quests are nice especially in the endgame to earn rare materials for crafting, but I prefer a player driven "sandbox" style game over a rollercoaster.
That said, I don't think I'll pay for that early of an early access. Maybe if it were in beta and it felt a little more playable. Early access for a game in alpha is a mistake every time.
A TV series sometimes doesn't even get a full season (even though we now call a "season" 6 episodes... but that's a different rant). Or gets cancelled between seasons. So all those plot twists and character arcs get left hanging in the wind.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes. I think I put in around 4 hours myself but it was enough. I talked with a friend who played the whole week and we were in agreement that it needed another year or two of closed development. And that wasn't even 2 months ago.
Really hope that in the future there will be a voice chat that will enliven the world, because communicating by text in multiplayer now complicates everything.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ask those that have finished them. Many early access games reach a release state. It is early access MMORPGs that have been especially problematic.