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Black Desert Online Simplifies Gathering and Fishing and Makes Guilds More Flexible | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited June 2024 in News & Features Discussion

imageBlack Desert Online Simplifies Gathering and Fishing and Makes Guilds More Flexible | MMORPG.com

Black Desert Online continues getting new player experience improvements. In this week's update, you can start gathering anywhere and without the use of tools. The update also adds some new rewards and events, balance and class changes, adjustments to guilds, and a number of other tweaks.

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Comments

  • NeoyoshiNeoyoshi Member RarePosts: 1,503
    edited June 2024
    image I just wanted to point out the beginning of this article reads as if lifeskill tools are not needed at all; which they still very much are.

    So to clarify the article; this is what the Family gathering update did in respect to lifeskill tools: image Essentially, you just have to have lifeskill tools in the characters possession. This is basically like have Liana's tool bag, but without having to equip anything.

    Also the handy Family tool window was added. image
    SovrathScot


    Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
    Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
    Fishing in RL since 1992
    Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,487
    Games only have one direction, ever easier.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,591
    Scot said:
    Games only have one direction, ever easier.

    Depending on that being made easier it may be a positive.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,487
    edited June 2024
    Scot said:
    Games only have one direction, ever easier.

    Depending on that being made easier it may be a positive.
    If the attitude of a studio is to only make things easier, never harder, then as the years pass by any positives will be drowned out by the negatives.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2024
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,591
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    Games only have one direction, ever easier.

    Depending on that being made easier it may be a positive.
    If the attitude of a studio is to only make things easier, never harder, then as the years pass by any positives will be drowned out by the negatives.

    That depends on why things are harder. It is a matter of actual difficulty or just additional bother for the sake of. There is nothing negative in reducing the latter and that is what these changes are about.
    ValdemarJ
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,487

    tzervo said:


    Scot said:

    Games only have one direction, ever easier.


    Read Neoyoshi's comment, the changes seem to be just QoL changes for alts.



    Which makes things ever easier, yes. :)

    KnightFalz said:


    Scot said:




    Scot said:

    Games only have one direction, ever easier.



    Depending on that being made easier it may be a positive.


    If the attitude of a studio is to only make things easier, never harder, then as the years pass by any positives will be drowned out by the negatives.



    That depends on why things are harder. It is a matter of actual difficulty or just additional bother for the sake of. There is nothing negative in reducing the latter and that is what these changes are about.



    Well one mans "bother" is another man's "difficulty". So if you go through a MMO looking for anything that can "bother" someone you will remove all the difficulty in the game.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,487
    tzervo said:
    Scot said:
    Well one mans "bother" is another man's "difficulty". So if you go through a MMO looking for anything that can "bother" someone you will remove all the difficulty in the game.
    Difficulty comes from adding impactful choices or mechanical difficulty, not tedium.

    Before, you would have 5 alts, you would buy 5 tools, equip them and that's it. Now you have 5 alts, you buy a tool, and you share it. In terms of economy, since the tool is shared, it would wear down faster if you use it on all 5 alts, so you would replace it faster, which adds up to getting the 4 extra tools for the alts. The base tools functionality change is trivial since it is trivial to buy them, so it is just a UX improvement.

    I do not see how the change makes anything easier. In this sense, any UI/UX improvement makes things "easier".
    I can see where you are coming from, players don't see changes to "crafting management" and making a UI better in the same light as other difficulties, like how fast you can level. But this is a grey area, does adding minimap make a game easier, I would say so? Does reducing the number of ingredients you need to make something not make the game easier? So yes, for the sort of reduction you mention I don't see as being of huge concern, but it leads to the sort of changes that will be.

    As much about specific examples as we have talked about it is about design philosophy; maintaining difficulty let alone increasing it is not part of any games philosophy in the long run.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2024
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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,487
    edited June 2024
    tzervo said:
    Scot said:
    tzervo said:
    Scot said:
    Well one mans "bother" is another man's "difficulty". So if you go through a MMO looking for anything that can "bother" someone you will remove all the difficulty in the game.
    Difficulty comes from adding impactful choices or mechanical difficulty, not tedium.

    Before, you would have 5 alts, you would buy 5 tools, equip them and that's it. Now you have 5 alts, you buy a tool, and you share it. In terms of economy, since the tool is shared, it would wear down faster if you use it on all 5 alts, so you would replace it faster, which adds up to getting the 4 extra tools for the alts. The base tools functionality change is trivial since it is trivial to buy them, so it is just a UX improvement.

    I do not see how the change makes anything easier. In this sense, any UI/UX improvement makes things "easier".
    I can see where you are coming from, players don't see changes to "crafting management" and making a UI better in the same light as other difficulties, like how fast you can level. But this is a grey area, does adding minimap make a game easier, I would say so? Does reducing the number of ingredients you need to make something not make the game easier? So yes, for the sort of reduction you mention I don't see as being of huge concern, but it leads to the sort of changes that will be.

    As much about specific examples as we have talked about it is about design philosophy; maintaining difficulty let alone increasing it is not part of any games philosophy in the long run.
    Embers Adrift made a good case in favor of immersion & paying attention to your surroundings w.r.t. minimap inclusion. I would not contradict that example, even though I personally prefer the minimap. Same for player-run shops vs streamlined auction houses (which is where Raph Koster used a variant of your phrase, "one's inconvenience is another's gameplay"). I am well aware of the distinction, but the inconveniences there earn their keep.

    Reducing the number of ingredients: it depends. Does it make it easier to procure them? does it reduce the decisions you need to make or the challenges you need to overcome? Context is important here.

    For the specific example, I do not think it makes things easier in any meaningful way. it's QoL.

    Generally speaking, I would agree with the notion that a specific game would probably either stay the same or get easier in the long run, in order to avoid scaring away its existing player base. A cautionary example would be GW2 making its open world content harder in HoT, facing lots of complaints from most of the playerbase, and dialing it back to the difficulty of the core game soon after. But I do not see this being a general trend in gaming, and I have been gaming since 1985.
    I would not say games already out should get harder, the problem is they never stay at the difficulty level they began with. By all means some tweaking in the first couple of months of play, but changes a year later are not unforeseen issues they are just dumbing games down.

    The minimap is actually a huge issue along with exclamation marks over heads and so on. Players pointed out that before you had to use your head, the quest giver would tell you where to go and you had to work it out. Not so once the minimap arrived. What about a big arrow that points the way you have to go, is that going too far?

    Again we will all draw the line differently here, I would say no arrow to quest, no exclamation marks. The main map would show the local region you need to go to for a quest, the minimap would show you when you are in the exact area but not point to it. Thats a good balance.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2024
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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,487
    tzervo said:
    No disagreement there. When I was talking about the minimap, I was talking strictly about it, not its "bells and whistles". I see what you were getting at now. Iirc P:G and SotA have a minimap but without the "!"s. And BDO actually had the arrows even in game. I am against none of these (from EA's to BDO's approach) different strokes for different folks.

    Again though, the changes described in this article do not make things easier, it's just QoL.
    Well here we do differ, I can see inventory and crating changes as QoL, making it so that you don't need a brain to find a quest is just dumbing down to me. You also said "different strokes for different folks", it is the studios making the decision here, I am not going to blame a player for following an arrow.
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