Throne and Liberty Beta Impressions: Could A Pay-To-Win Barrier Be Its Downfall? | MMORPG.com

System · July 24

Throne and Liberty Beta Impressions: Could A Pay-To-Win Barrier Be Its Downfall? | MMORPG.com

NCSOFT hosted its first major open beta here in the West for its upcoming release of Throne and Liberty, and we had the chance to go hands on and check out the MMO as it stands now. How does it stack up just a few months before its Western launch?

Read the full story here

Pher0cious · July 24

"Could A Pay-To-Win Barrier Be Its Downfall?"

Yes. Always yes. Forever yes. Night and day. Yin and yang. P2W and death.

Tiller · July 24

Pher0cious said:

"Could A Pay-To-Win Barrier Be Its Downfall?"

Yes. Always yes. Forever yes. Night and day. Yin and yang. P2W and death.

Poor GIF choice..

Pher0cious · July 24

Tiller said:

Pher0cious said:

"Could A Pay-To-Win Barrier Be Its Downfall?"

Yes. Always yes. Forever yes. Night and day. Yin and yang. P2W and death.

Poor GIF choice..

Why what is it?

Chaserz · July 24

I agree with the article. I don't care all that much about PTW. The world is indeed immersive, and the mechanics are excellent. It's the details to enjoy during the journey that matters to me.

Kallendal · July 24

Pher0cious said:

"Could A Pay-To-Win Barrier Be Its Downfall?"

Yes. Always yes. Forever yes. Night and day. Yin and yang. P2W and death.

I've beta tested Throne and Liberty twice now. Honestly, in my opinion, it has one of the best openings I've seen in an MMORPG in a long time—excellent training in basics, a captivating story, and a seamless introduction to the larger world. The cinematics are amazing, and I really, really enjoyed them.

However, the horrendous monetization completely kills the game for me. It's frustrating because I genuinely want to enjoy Throne and Liberty—the graphics, the beauty, everything about it.

I don't understand how a game as visually stunning as Once Human can be free to play, while Throne and Liberty have such aggressive monetization tactics.

All I can do is hope that the next game that catches my attention will have a more reasonable payment system.

mcrippins · July 24

I don't see how buying Lucent is any different than buying WoW tokens on the AH.

Ensifer · July 24

Absolutely fantastic game, and probably the only game I have ever beta tested and made it to max level I was enjoying it that much. The monetization is rough absolutely though.

coercer02 · July 24

Terrible game in all honesty. Combat feels so clunky. Its absolutely shocking that this game spent 10+ years in development and ended up in this state.

Quizzical · July 25

If the "pay to win" is that players can buy things from other players off of the auction house, then I don't see that as a major problem. It's certainly nothing like the sort of problem that you get when the best items are conjured up out of thin air by someone paying cash.

Ensifer · July 25

coercer02 said:

Terrible game in all honesty. Combat feels so clunky. Its absolutely shocking that this game spent 10+ years in development and ended up in this state.

Curious what you thought was clunky about the combat? As I have played almost every mainstream MMO that has ever been released and felt the combat was incredibly fluid. I also played the game on PS5 and PC and both felt great. My only gripe was not having keyboard and mouse support for the PS5 and no cross save between the two.

There's also allegedly a large combat and skill revamp coming on day one that is already on the KR client.

Kumapon · July 25

AGS should have delayed the beta about a month. Things not in the beta (but will be in launch, will be added to the Korean version within the next few weeks) are the skill systems. You can attach a different set of skill points (100 total at level 50, can refund them at will at no cost) that completely change many of the abilities. Let you move while casting fireballs, turn them into AOE, change elements of spells, turn regular melee attacks into AOE, and so on.

The open beta was also running a very old version of the client in terms of camera. Saw it mention on a stream where they thought it was the Chinese client, and not a Korean one. It was changed months back on the Korean client.

So the beta was missing some fairly huge things in terms of combat and feel of the game, which is a really bad move considering the praise for the graphics and optimization is fairly universal (loading times when teleporting on the map feel like the Demon Souls remake, flash then you're there ready to go, all assets loaded), however, the combat is where I see the most complaints. So considering the dramatic changes that are coming to it really soon, and is confirmed to be at launch for the world release, it's just strange to release it as is.

tilt5 · July 25

P2W does not bother me in the least, however these free to play games attract gold-selling bots like flies, so I'm really hoping there's a small paywall there to prevent bot farms from making unlimited accounts. 5 bucks even, could give it back as in-game currency.

Ginaz · July 25

I don't know about the pay2win but I didn't like it because the combat was hot garbage.

[Deleted User] · July 25

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Vagabondo · July 25

I wanted to say good things about this game, i really did. Problem is i uninstalled it after a bit and can't say much about the world and the lore, the dungeons, and everything.

The combat just didn't do it for me.

I really hope it finds its group of players , who want to spend time and money in it, though.

ShinyFlygon · July 25

It's probably one of the greatest games ever for a free-to-play solo player who only wants to see the PvE side of the game. It's beautiful, flashy, fully voiced, and full of lore. If you go into it with the understanding that there are a lot of things you won't be able to have without paying up, you'll be fine.

For a player who cares about a good player experience, wants to enjoy all parts of the game at your own pace and is willing to pay a *reasonable* amount for that, it's terrible.

losthewar · July 25

The game is fucking garbage!!! Read below on how to cheat to max level.

In throne and liberties options you can make it so your charachter wil move to the next mob you have targeted. Also abilities target closest mob.

This means you can use a macro to press your 1-0 keys and after level to max level, there is no reason to play the game.

This game also sucks balls the pvp is terrible and overall the game sucks. Korea is a trash country for video game development.

losthewar · July 25

Game sux!

ultimateduck · July 25

I absolutely hate that art style. I can suck it up if the game is good enough, but nothing made me want to log in and keep playing. Combat was decent-ish if not a bit clunky, quests flowed from one to the next but were a bit blah, polish/movement/animation was pretty good.

I also can't stand it when skills are attached to the weapon you're holding. GW2 did this and I hated it. It takes away from character depth in a huge way.

I was looking forward to this game and really wanted to like it. I'm a bit bummed I did not. It reminded me of an Asian version of New World, which I didn't care for much.

Sovrath · July 25

ultimateduck said:

I also can't stand it when skills are attached to the weapon you're holding. GW2 did this and I hated it. It takes away from character depth in a huge way.

Does it?

If you look at it as the character’s ability with that specific weapon then it adds to depth.

If you’re not familiar with a weapon then why would you be privy to any skills with that weapon?

By becoming familiar with a weapon the player opens up the possibilities with that weapon and can even capitalize on various synergies with other weapons as long as the game allows switching.

olepi · July 25

Sovrath said:

ultimateduck said:

I also can't stand it when skills are attached to the weapon you're holding. GW2 did this and I hated it. It takes away from character depth in a huge way.

Does it?

If you look at it as the character’s ability with that specific weapon then it adds to depth.

If you’re not familiar with a weapon then why would you be privy to any skills with that weapon?

By becoming familiar with a weapon the player opens up the possibilities with that weapon and can even capitalize on various synergies with other weapons as long as the game allows switching.

There are two mechanics here, and I also hate one of them.

If the weapon has its own skills attached to it, that means you can get better with the weapon and unlock more skill with it. That seems reasonable.

What I hate is when you have just a few skills on your hotbar, and you have to switch weapons to access a different skill bar. The skill isn't attached to the weapon, you may unlock new magic skills by equipping a hammer that has no magic abilities at all. It's just a way to let you access a new skill bar that has nothing to do with the weapon.

This second mechanic is what is in ESO and to me it seems to be there because they wanted to limit skills to fit on a controller. To use more skills you have to swap weapons, even if the weapon has nothing to do with the skills. Yuck.

Greatsword · July 25

First, I thought the combat is horrible, because it just felt like a poor man's GW2 combat, which had no clear direction on whether it wanted to be action or tab target combat.

But then I realized I can zoom out and play this game like a click-to-move game with more skills on my bar than in the typical console-era-MMO. Which is nice. Now I wish there was a white, wireless MMO mouse with a numblock on the side.

losthewar · July 25

This game sux do not play it!

Neoyoshi · July 25

mcrippins said:

I don't see how buying Lucent is any different than buying WoW tokens on the AH.

It's not different, but it's also no different from buying and trading crystal gems via the in-game shop in GW2, it's going to be pretty much identical to Guildwars 2 item shop and how it deals with currency.

And GW2 and World of Warcraft isn't alone with these comparisons and familiarities.

But if we want to focus on the cashshop and how Lucent is going to affect things down the road, it's something that is going to require some patience, because no one truly knows yet
how this will all play out.

Even this beta didn't really reveal as much as i thought it would about the cashshop situation, I mean, they really held back a lot this time.

At this point predictions are the only thing we have to go off of, and some conventional wisdom where it exists.

Personal though, i had a lot of fun with the guild community i play with, so i am looking forward to the game.

ultimateduck · July 26

Sovrath said:

ultimateduck said:

I also can't stand it when skills are attached to the weapon you're holding. GW2 did this and I hated it. It takes away from character depth in a huge way.

Does it?

If you look at it as the character’s ability with that specific weapon then it adds to depth.

If you’re not familiar with a weapon then why would you be privy to any skills with that weapon?

By becoming familiar with a weapon the player opens up the possibilities with that weapon and can even capitalize on various synergies with other weapons as long as the game allows switching.

Your ability with a specific weapon should be a result of the skills you put in that weapon, not a result of equipping that weapon. I don't want my sword styles to come from the sword, I want them to come from the choice I made to spec in a sword. The more I spec, the better I am with the sword.

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