Originally posted by JulianDracos Contrary to what people think, DAOC population is not declining. It took a significant hit just before and for the first month or so after the release of WoW. After that time it held steady. With the release of the Classic servers the population increased by a decent number and the subscriber totals are increasing. There is something that people do not realize. There is the amount of subscribers, and the amount of time actively played. The graphs that you have, and what most people see, list the active amount of people on at any given time. This traditionally drops throughout the year and picks back up starting in the fall. Here are the reasons why you see fewer people logged in and that the number appears the drop every month: 1. School. In January more people are on break. As the year goes on, people are busier and thus login fewer. 2. It is getting warmer. As the temperature increases and the days get longer, people spend more time outside and less time in front of the computer. 3. No new servers. The classic servers were something "everyone" had to try out. Because of that, and the recent changes, many subscribers have come back. However, the newness as worn off and once you get to 50 and have gear, no need to login to do PvE. So you just log in when you want to RvR. 4. Aging population/game. Many, or perhaps most, of the current DAOC population has been playing for 3+ years. With little content left for people to do, there is less of an urge to login to the game. Further, this population has now graduated school, has jobs, has kids, etc. Simple put as you age you generally have less time to play. Further, you have less desire to play. I used to be logged into the game for 14 hours a day. Now I maybe play 14 hours a week. Part of it is I have less time, part of it is that there are other things I want to do. I could be playing now, but I really do not feel like it. I hate leveling my artifacts and that is what I need to do on a couple of toons. The only ML I need are on my animist and I am waiting until 50 to do that. I can't get a group in Thid with my Bainshee and have no desire to do the PvE grind to get another level. The few things I want to do I would not be able to do right now such as do the Co5 or Darkspire. So unless I want to go out to Leirvick there is little in the game for me to do right now. New players are joining the game. Subscriptions are up. For example, lets say there are 1000 new players in a month spread out over the servers it does not seem like a lot. Then you take into account the different play times of those players. Then add into that most of the current players will generally spend less time playing each week as the months go on and you see that the servers looking empty. I am all for increasing the population. I am not sure what can be done. But I do not want people to think the sky is falling or the game is dead. People were calling DAOC vaporware before it came out. Every game that has come out has been labeled the "DAOC killer." The server numbers drop a bit and everyone says the game is dead and they have been doing it for years. It is not as though DAOC has 5,000,000 players, but 200,000 is a decent number. It is probably still down about 50,000 players from when WoW was launched, but that percentage was taken from almost every mmorpg that was currently out. Do not worry about the subscriber numbers. The only DAOC killer is going to be Warhammer. Since it is an RvR game it will suck a huge portion of the DAOC playerbase over. Until then do not worry about if the game is going to be around because it will be.
you're forgetting 1 very important thing - it doesn't matter how many subscribers there are if they aren't playing!
I am not forgetting it. The issue is if DAOC will still be around. Paying subscribers is what you need for that. They are not going to cancel a game they are making money on. The fewer amount of time played certainly has issues for gameplay, but it has nothing to do with if the game is going to be canceled which is what my post dealt with.
However, until WAR comes out - IMHO there is no other game that combines PvE and PvP so skillfully.
It is the best MMORPG - fantasy based out there solely for that reason. And it is amazing that this game just doesn't totally dominate the market. Mythic has vast experience and it will apply it to WAR and then it will get the smash hit that this company deserves.
I think I'm gonna resubscribe to DaOC right now - as a matter of fact!
"I have live my life by these nine simple words: It sounded like a good idea at the time." --Livingston Taylor
My gf and I joined the game a week ago. We absolutly love it. I havent felt this excited about a game since SWG back in the Summer of 2003. Mythic should promote the game more. Seriously, I believe if more people realized just how awesome this MMO is they would sign up.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Originally posted by Nikoz78 My gf and I joined the game a week ago. We absolutly love it. I havent felt this excited about a game since SWG back in the Summer of 2003. Mythic should promote the game more. Seriously, I believe if more people realized just how awesome this MMO is they would sign up.
Same here, although I initially played when it came out.
I highly recommend this game for anyone on the edge of decision.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Maybe the complaint about the low level content not being group freindly is legit. How coul they do something to make player rewards for higher people playing with lower people? Now its kinda discouraged..
But I dont know how many new players don't start playing because theres no longer a ton of lowbies in Mithra, lost tombs or Nissi's lair? Doesnt seem to me to be the reason people dont pick up the game.
Mostly it seems they dont market it as much as they could. WoW's marketing budjet is proabaly 20 times DAoC's.
For me I've stoped gaming in general because I've been busy with other stuff .. allot of people just move on at some point and there must be some nebies taking their place.
EDIT: BTW I wouldn't really play WoW its just too boring in comparision. Just rather do RL Stuff for now.
Yea, DAOC population is not dropping, its actually rising at an exponential rate. LMAO. Do you really believe that? Dude, look at the numbers compared to last year. Friday night there was only 11k people online. Are you kidding me? Are you that delusional? Fanbois drive me insane. Do you know what reality is? Get out of that damn bubble you live in and get a good fresh dose of it.
And I don't believe that MMOs can't revitalize, but it takes effort. Something no MMO has done. They just make second rate sequels. Obviously, Mythic has choose to make a sequel. No sequel has been as good as its orginal, and I bet this doesn't change. Oh yea, techinally its not a sequel...
I have to admit, I am seeing less and less people everytime I login. That's really depressing seeing as I just started playing a few months ago.
I just took a look at the link the OP put up. You can almost draw a straight line marking the descending numbers of people.
Oh well. Maybe when WAR comes out they'll offer some kind of subscription like SOE does where people can play both games. It's the only thing I can see getting those numbers back up. And it is really frustrating when you're new and there's nobody to play with.
============================= It all seems so stupid It makes me want to give up But why should I give up When it all seems so stupid
Originally posted by brostyn Obviously, Mythic has choose to make a sequel. No sequel has been as good as its orginal, and I bet this doesn't change. Oh yea, techinally its not a sequel...
Agree that numbers slowly droping, it's old game. But, if above text is about WAR, it's quite clueless and ignorant, looks like haters are dumber then fanbois
The population is dropping for a very simple reason. There is no serious effort to gain new players. People ALWAYS leave an MMORPG. That's just a fact of life. Even if everyone was happy with it, some people are going to lose jobs, die, find religion, or whatever. People are going to leave a game even for natural reasons. There has been almost zero effort to attract new players to the game. There has been zero effort to attract old former players to the game. I'm one of the players from the first days of DAOC. Any information I have about DAOC comes from me actually seeking it out. That's horrible advertising.
The solution to this problem is to reintroduce both marketing AND a lower level experience that makes a return or brand new player feel welcome. There may even be that in the game right now, but no one even knows it. I hate to use Everquest as an example, but they changed the introduction of their beginning player experience, and even though I've had an account in that game forever, I restarted it not too long ago was impressed with the new player experience. After that, the game kind of went downhill cause there's no one else playing the game OUTSIDE of the new player area, but you should get the point.
To me, DAOC was probably one of the few games that got it right in the beginning. Yeah, there were lots of problems, but all games have those of some type or other. However, at one point, one got underwhelmed by the lack of stuff to do while leveling. RVR was great, but getting to a point where you could was practically impossible because eventually the attention span problem would cause people to just drop the game and look for something else.
My original reason for finally giving up on the game was the nerf of the week attitude of the devs. My reason for not coming back is because I've seen NOTHING from the devs that indicates there's anything interesting to return to. There probably is, but word of mouth hasn't worked. Advertising is nonexistent. So, what is there to expect but a continuous slide in players?
Originally posted by sarbonn The population is dropping for a very simple reason. There is no serious effort to gain new players. People ALWAYS leave an MMORPG. That's just a fact of life. Even if everyone was happy with it, some people are going to lose jobs, die, find religion, or whatever. People are going to leave a game even for natural reasons. There has been almost zero effort to attract new players to the game. There has been zero effort to attract old former players to the game. I'm one of the players from the first days of DAOC. Any information I have about DAOC comes from me actually seeking it out. That's horrible advertising.
The solution to this problem is to reintroduce both marketing AND a lower level experience that makes a return or brand new player feel welcome. There may even be that in the game right now, but no one even knows it. I hate to use Everquest as an example, but they changed the introduction of their beginning player experience, and even though I've had an account in that game forever, I restarted it not too long ago was impressed with the new player experience. After that, the game kind of went downhill cause there's no one else playing the game OUTSIDE of the new player area, but you should get the point.
To me, DAOC was probably one of the few games that got it right in the beginning. Yeah, there were lots of problems, but all games have those of some type or other. However, at one point, one got underwhelmed by the lack of stuff to do while leveling. RVR was great, but getting to a point where you could was practically impossible because eventually the attention span problem would cause people to just drop the game and look for something else.
My original reason for finally giving up on the game was the nerf of the week attitude of the devs. My reason for not coming back is because I've seen NOTHING from the devs that indicates there's anything interesting to return to. There probably is, but word of mouth hasn't worked. Advertising is nonexistent. So, what is there to expect but a continuous slide in players?
I think you're right. Everyone knows about other games, but when you mention DAoC even a lot of the big gamers haven't heard of it. Everyone has heard of World of Warcraft, or Final Fantasy XI, or Everquest. But not DAoC. Unless you're a really big time gamer who does lot's of research on games.
And the DAoC new player experience is really bad right now. The people playing the game have the potential to fix that, but they don't have the motivation to. Who wants to go back and reroll to run through the exact same content again? At least with Everquest you can level a different route than your other characters. DAoC has different realms, but then you have to leave all your friends from before on your server.
New content or updated more fun content would maybe fix that problem.
I'm not sure they care too much right now though. They're working on WAR. Which I really don't want to distract them from. I can't wait.
I took some time to read this thread and I am really amazed with some of the insights you people have come up with. Good job!
Anyway, I just came back to the game myself after a three month leave of absence in which I went back to WoW. While WoW is in fact a fun game, Blizzard directs all their attention to the hard core players. They even go as far as to take content away from players of one play style and give it to players of another. Bad business in my book. Knowing that DAoC can cater to casual play styles inspired me to come back. Sadly, I don't think I will be staying long.
DAoC, which was at one time one of the the best games on the market, has definatly taken a huge hit in the wake of WoW. I have a 50 Heretic on Gareth, and during the week I was back, I saw very few people. I started playing on Monday, and by the time the weekend rolled around, I was beginning to suspect that Mythic is making up the server population numbers. I would hang around the frontiers and other places where players converge and hardly saw anyone. I ran around the frontiers solo for almost 2 hours and noone even took a shot at me.
I would like to see this game come back with a vengeance, but I doubt it will happen. Mythic is too busy with Warhammer too pay too much attention to DAoC. I read over some of the last few patch notes and wasn't really impressed. It's no wonder the population has taken such a hit. This game has gone stale and is desperately in need of some serious attention.
I cancelled my account only after a few days of playing. I just wasn't feeling it. The DAoC I once knew no longer exists. I would like to see Mythic do a total revamp of this game and bring it back to life, but I doubt they will, not with Warhammer on the horizon.
This is based on my impressions from a few montsh ago, so take it with a grain of salt.
I'd have to agree that Mythic isn't doing a lot to try and gain new players. The new player experience is pretty hit or miss right now. There is actually a ton of different stuff to do from level 1 on, but I honestly don't see how a new player would figure out more than one or two of the options that they have without sponding a lot of time on the internet. The "main track" that new players are put on just isn't all that well polished (I would often get stuck and just drop the quest track for kill tasks or instance farming). This is not a game that is going to suck you in during the first five minutes (or even likely the first hour) of play. The low level PvE experience for an utter newbie that may have played nothing but WoW in the past needs to be more compelling. The various options that you have for powerlevelling through the early levels also need to be a lot more clear.
Heck, when I jumped into Catacombs for the first time, it took quite a bit of research on the internet to get up to speed. For example, if you don't know what Aurilite is, where you can get it, where you can spend it, and how to pick out good items you are going to get your butt handed to you if you decided to try the Battlegrounds at low levels. Even then you may still get your butt handed to you if you pick the wrong class.
Ralted to this, it also needs to be a lot more clear at the character creation screen what classes solo well and don't, and what classes can do well at low level RvR and don't come into their own until higher levels. I know that there are text descriptions that allude to these factors, but I don't think they are clear enough. In many cases they are also somewhat misleading. For example Bolt casters are supposed to be pretty good soloers, but this is really only true outdoors. They bite at soloing in insances due to LoS issues. They also can do much better at low level battle grounds than most classes, but you're given no hint of this.
On the other hand I strongly disagree that DAoC is not doing enough to try and bring back old players. The game is arguably better than it's ever been, and supports a greater diversity of playstyles than it ever has in the past. They regularly do "Come back to Camelot" promotions (along with e-mails to all pervious account holder's promoting them), and they continue to advertise in venues that hardcore old school DAoC players are likely to see adverts in (gameing news sites for example). The newer classes that have been added to the game are increasinlgy well rounded compared to launch classes, and they seem to be working hard to address longstanding player complaints at long last (how freaking long has it been since bolts have been broken in RvR? How long have we been bitching about the snoozefest crafting system?). Perhaps they have chosen to focus on their core audience, since (given the above complaints) this just isn't a very newbie freindly game and there may not be much they can do to change it.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I agree that it appears that DAOC is in decline but I'd hardly call it 'collapsing'. The game still currently has more than 100k subscribers which, frankly, is a lot for a 5+ year old MMORPG. Look at the other titles it's age or older: UO: Under 130k subs AC: Under 30k subs AO: Under 20k subs (yes, it has lots of players but most aren't paying monthly fees)
Only Lineage 1 and EQ have more subs out of the games it's age or older. As a side note: Most titles newer than it have fewer as well.
So... while I'd agree it's in decline (it's 5 years old after all) I'd hardly call it 'collapsing'.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Comments
Honestly - it does seem that population is down.
However, until WAR comes out - IMHO there is no other game that combines PvE and PvP so skillfully.
It is the best MMORPG - fantasy based out there solely for that reason.
And it is amazing that this game just doesn't totally dominate the market.
Mythic has vast experience and it will apply it to WAR and then it will get the smash
hit that this company deserves.
I think I'm gonna resubscribe to DaOC right now - as a matter of fact!
"I have live my life by these nine simple words: It sounded like a good idea at the time."
--Livingston Taylor
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
I highly recommend this game for anyone on the edge of decision.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Yeah its the best game no one know about.
Maybe the complaint about the low level content not being group freindly is legit. How coul they do something to make player rewards for higher people playing with lower people? Now its kinda discouraged..
But I dont know how many new players don't start playing because theres no longer a ton of lowbies in Mithra, lost tombs or Nissi's lair? Doesnt seem to me to be the reason people dont pick up the game.
Mostly it seems they dont market it as much as they could. WoW's marketing budjet is proabaly 20 times DAoC's.
For me I've stoped gaming in general because I've been busy with other stuff .. allot of people just move on at some point and there must be some nebies taking their place.
EDIT: BTW I wouldn't really play WoW its just too boring in comparision. Just rather do RL Stuff for now.
And I don't believe that MMOs can't revitalize, but it takes effort. Something no MMO has done. They just make second rate sequels. Obviously, Mythic has choose to make a sequel. No sequel has been as good as its orginal, and I bet this doesn't change. Oh yea, techinally its not a sequel...
I just took a look at the link the OP put up. You can almost draw a straight line marking the descending numbers of people.
Oh well. Maybe when WAR comes out they'll offer some kind of subscription like SOE does where people can play both games. It's the only thing I can see getting those numbers back up. And it is really frustrating when you're new and there's nobody to play with.
=============================
It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
The solution to this problem is to reintroduce both marketing AND a lower level experience that makes a return or brand new player feel welcome. There may even be that in the game right now, but no one even knows it. I hate to use Everquest as an example, but they changed the introduction of their beginning player experience, and even though I've had an account in that game forever, I restarted it not too long ago was impressed with the new player experience. After that, the game kind of went downhill cause there's no one else playing the game OUTSIDE of the new player area, but you should get the point.
To me, DAOC was probably one of the few games that got it right in the beginning. Yeah, there were lots of problems, but all games have those of some type or other. However, at one point, one got underwhelmed by the lack of stuff to do while leveling. RVR was great, but getting to a point where you could was practically impossible because eventually the attention span problem would cause people to just drop the game and look for something else.
My original reason for finally giving up on the game was the nerf of the week attitude of the devs. My reason for not coming back is because I've seen NOTHING from the devs that indicates there's anything interesting to return to. There probably is, but word of mouth hasn't worked. Advertising is nonexistent. So, what is there to expect but a continuous slide in players?
My blog:
http://www.littlesarbonn.com
And the DAoC new player experience is really bad right now. The people playing the game have the potential to fix that, but they don't have the motivation to. Who wants to go back and reroll to run through the exact same content again? At least with Everquest you can level a different route than your other characters. DAoC has different realms, but then you have to leave all your friends from before on your server.
New content or updated more fun content would maybe fix that problem.
I'm not sure they care too much right now though. They're working on WAR. Which I really don't want to distract them from. I can't wait.
--------------------------------------
I took some time to read this thread and I am really amazed with some of the insights you people have come up with. Good job!
Anyway, I just came back to the game myself after a three month leave of absence in which I went back to WoW. While WoW is in fact a fun game, Blizzard directs all their attention to the hard core players. They even go as far as to take content away from players of one play style and give it to players of another. Bad business in my book. Knowing that DAoC can cater to casual play styles inspired me to come back. Sadly, I don't think I will be staying long.
DAoC, which was at one time one of the the best games on the market, has definatly taken a huge hit in the wake of WoW. I have a 50 Heretic on Gareth, and during the week I was back, I saw very few people. I started playing on Monday, and by the time the weekend rolled around, I was beginning to suspect that Mythic is making up the server population numbers. I would hang around the frontiers and other places where players converge and hardly saw anyone. I ran around the frontiers solo for almost 2 hours and noone even took a shot at me.
I would like to see this game come back with a vengeance, but I doubt it will happen. Mythic is too busy with Warhammer too pay too much attention to DAoC. I read over some of the last few patch notes and wasn't really impressed. It's no wonder the population has taken such a hit. This game has gone stale and is desperately in need of some serious attention.
I cancelled my account only after a few days of playing. I just wasn't feeling it. The DAoC I once knew no longer exists. I would like to see Mythic do a total revamp of this game and bring it back to life, but I doubt they will, not with Warhammer on the horizon.
Oh well . . .
http://www.TheGamersAssociation.com
I thought Mythic said the subscriber numbers were going up?
I just looked at the new MMOGCHART.COM stats and DAoC is collapsing.
Look at the - Subscribers: 100,000
- 700,000
They're going to put a spin on it, but just look at the population numbers on the clusters on usually busy nights, they're empty.
Plus, a good portion of the accounts left are bot accounts.
http://www.TheGamersAssociation.com
This is based on my impressions from a few montsh ago, so take it with a grain of salt.
I'd have to agree that Mythic isn't doing a lot to try and gain new players. The new player experience is pretty hit or miss right now. There is actually a ton of different stuff to do from level 1 on, but I honestly don't see how a new player would figure out more than one or two of the options that they have without sponding a lot of time on the internet. The "main track" that new players are put on just isn't all that well polished (I would often get stuck and just drop the quest track for kill tasks or instance farming). This is not a game that is going to suck you in during the first five minutes (or even likely the first hour) of play. The low level PvE experience for an utter newbie that may have played nothing but WoW in the past needs to be more compelling. The various options that you have for powerlevelling through the early levels also need to be a lot more clear.
Heck, when I jumped into Catacombs for the first time, it took quite a
bit of research on the internet to get up to speed. For example, if
you don't know what Aurilite is, where you can get it, where you can
spend it, and how to pick out good items you are going to get your butt
handed to you if you decided to try the Battlegrounds at low levels.
Even then you may still get your butt handed to you if you pick the
wrong class.
Ralted to this, it also needs to be a lot more clear at the character creation screen what classes solo well and don't, and what classes can do well at low level RvR and don't come into their own until higher levels. I know that there are text descriptions that allude to these factors, but I don't think they are clear enough. In many cases they are also somewhat misleading. For example Bolt casters are supposed to be pretty good soloers, but this is really only true outdoors. They bite at soloing in insances due to LoS issues. They also can do much better at low level battle grounds than most classes, but you're given no hint of this.
On the other hand I strongly disagree that DAoC is not doing enough to try and bring back old players. The game is arguably better than it's ever been, and supports a greater diversity of playstyles than it ever has in the past. They regularly do "Come back to Camelot" promotions (along with e-mails to all pervious account holder's promoting them), and they continue to advertise in venues that hardcore old school DAoC players are likely to see adverts in (gameing news sites for example). The newer classes that have been added to the game are increasinlgy well rounded compared to launch classes, and they seem to be working hard to address longstanding player complaints at long last (how freaking long has it been since bolts have been broken in RvR? How long have we been bitching about the snoozefest crafting system?). Perhaps they have chosen to focus on their core audience, since (given the above complaints) this just isn't a very newbie freindly game and there may not be much they can do to change it.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I agree that it appears that DAOC is in decline but I'd hardly call it 'collapsing'. The game still currently has more than 100k subscribers which, frankly, is a lot for a 5+ year old MMORPG. Look at the other titles it's age or older:
UO: Under 130k subs
AC: Under 30k subs
AO: Under 20k subs (yes, it has lots of players but most aren't paying monthly fees)
Only Lineage 1 and EQ have more subs out of the games it's age or older. As a side note: Most titles newer than it have fewer as well.
So... while I'd agree it's in decline (it's 5 years old after all) I'd hardly call it 'collapsing'.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas