Monsters & Memories is Getting a New Stress Test This Weekend | MMORPG.com

System · August 7

Monsters & Memories is Getting a New Stress Test This Weekend | MMORPG.com

Monsters & Memories will be holding a new stress test this weekend. The team announced the test details, what they hope to see, and how to get involved.

Read the full story here

Raagnarz · August 7

Say it every time you guys post about M&M. But love this dev team, love their vision for what this could be, and love the way they're going about making the game with true community involvement. And they laid out a reasonable and detailed plan for early access and full launch which doesn't including ridiculous greed and mtx. Yet all this time they are allowing people to test for free in an old school alpha way and it helps them continue to build what this niche audience (i'm part of it no doubt) truly wants. Its barely a game currently, its got bugs, its got one disjointed "city" and a few places to level. But it improves every single playtest. And it's gloriously brutal. Corpse runs are back. Grouping is the way. Hilarious and unexpected deaths happen. And I will say I've enjoyed my time in their test events greatly. So much so I subbed back to EQ for the first time in 23 years to play something similar and forgot how much I love this style of game. Keep up the good work guys and look forward to this.

Kumapon · August 7

This team is just so much better than Pantheon's team it isn't even funny. They never ask for handouts, and constantly work at the game non-stop.

Almost all the Pantheon white knights, that I know of, have given up and gone over to M&M.

ShinyFlygon · August 7

Even when I go to the collection of M&M articles, I see nothing but stories that assume everyone knows what this tiny little niche game is.

I've never heard of it, I can't even figure out what type of game it is, and I can't get excited about it on the basis of a mere stress test.

Sovrath · August 7

ShinyFlygon said:

Even when I go to the collection of M&M articles, I see nothing but stories that assume everyone knows what this tiny little niche game is.

I've never heard of it, I can't even figure out what type of game it is, and I can't get excited about it on the basis of a mere stress test.

That does seem to be a problem with articles on this site.

However you can just check out their site…

https://monstersandmemories.com/

mikeb0817 · August 8

Oops. I didn't see this one a few days ago. You can ignore my forum post regarding the test!

I'm stoked, this will be the first time I able to play.

EDIT: Spelling

ShinyFlygon · August 8

Sovrath said:

However you can just check out their site…

https://monstersandmemories.com/

Thanks for the link! So I went there and read some things, and I was almost fished in by a lot of ideas that seem to be geared toward a gamer like me. Until this:

Gameplay often more focused on getting to and maintaining “camps” throughout the world and in dungeons.

WHYYYYYYY? Are there that many players who actually have fond memories of camping spawn points? Reading this sentence instantly gave me a seeping, pustulant rash and PTSD flashbacks.

Instant nope, and I once again curse the fates for mandating that nostalgic game designers must always choose to resurrect the wrong parts of classic games.

The following bit also pissed me off, but I would have forgiven it if not for the line quoted above.

It is important to note that Early Access is not a head start period, but the initial launch of our game.

Sovrath · August 8

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

However you can just check out their site…

https://monstersandmemories.com/

Thanks for the link! So I went there and read some things, and I was almost fished in by a lot of ideas that seem to be geared toward a gamer like me. Until this:
Gameplay often more focused on getting to and maintaining “camps” throughout the world and in dungeons.
WHYYYYYYY? Are there that many players who actually have fond memories of camping spawn points? Reading this sentence instantly gave me a seeping, pustulant rash and PTSD flashbacks.

Instant nope, and I once again curse the fates for mandating that nostalgic game designers must always choose to resurrect the wrong parts of classic games.

The following bit also pissed me off, but I would have forgiven it if not for the line quoted above.
It is important to note that Early Access is not a head start period, but the initial launch of our game.

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

ShinyFlygon · August 9

Sovrath said:

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on why? I played EQ, and I found myself constantly frustrated that everyone just wanted to sit around in one spot instead of, y'know, going on adventures.

I'm not advocating for quest hubs. If anything, I think there's an over-reliance on quests in MMO design. But there are more than two options here, so maybe it would be worthwhile to look beyond these two bad ones.

cheyane · August 9

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on why? I played EQ, and I found myself constantly frustrated that everyone just wanted to sit around in one spot instead of, y'know, going on adventures.

I'm not advocating for quest hubs. If anything, I think there's an over-reliance on quests in MMO design. But there are more than two options here, so maybe it would be worthwhile to look beyond these two bad ones.

There are hardly any quests in Everquest. The reason people sat about in one spot to gain experience was because it was the most efficient method of getting experience. If you left you will lose the spot in that dungeon or area and since camps were owned and people called dibs on areas you cannot move around and grab mobs that you do not have the right to. The right to camps are strictly observed.

The fact that when you died you lost your corpse and all you had on you made it very unlikely that you are not in a group while 'adventuring'. You need to be resurrected by a cleric to get the most of the experience you lost by dying and people are not inclined to simply go adventuring since it is least efficient and dangerous way to level.

I can totally understand how very lack luster that must seem to one as you will be sitting in one spot for hours. The people who I suspect had the most fun were the pullers the ones that brought mobs to the group. They would navigate the dungeon and split mobs and get into hairy situation and an occasional quarrel over who owned the roamer mob.

All in all it was a very different experience to what WoW was when it came out. I think you have a more adventurous time in WoW than Everquest.

Sovrath · August 9

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on why? I played EQ, and I found myself constantly frustrated that everyone just wanted to sit around in one spot instead of, y'know, going on adventures.

I'm not advocating for quest hubs. If anything, I think there's an over-reliance on quests in MMO design. But there are more than two options here, so maybe it would be worthwhile to look beyond these two bad ones.

Well, what does "adventures" actually mean? I suppose one could consider making their way through a dungeon or some sort of outside area an adventure so I'd be into that.

I found the camps very social, there was downtime so we could actually talk, the mobs could be very dangerous so it was important to get the kills right. Since it was important to level as quickly as one could, having an efficient camp was optimum. Why was it important to level "quickly."

Well, in a game where leveling was very slow at higher levels, one needed to find a way to get that xp flowing quickly and "safely." You see, there was a pvp element where a group could come in and remove you. Or die trying.

And the whole idea was to be as high a level as you could because that meant power. Power in pvp, power in taking over leveling areas and certainly power in sieges which to me was a main component of the game. Also, the raids gave gear which was very important as enchanting them beyond a certain point could possibly destroy them. Along with that very specific items to that raid.

But one needed to be high level in order to be a part of that raid. And of course, pvp could happen during a raid so being more powerful was definitely "a thing."

I think in a game like Everquest, one just wants to level to see other content. There isn't really a "necessity" other than that as it's primarily pve game. Maybe there were pvp servers where things were different?

ShinyFlygon · August 13

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on why? I played EQ, and I found myself constantly frustrated that everyone just wanted to sit around in one spot instead of, y'know, going on adventures.

I'm not advocating for quest hubs. If anything, I think there's an over-reliance on quests in MMO design. But there are more than two options here, so maybe it would be worthwhile to look beyond these two bad ones.

Well, what does "adventures" actually mean? I suppose one could consider making their way through a dungeon or some sort of outside area an adventure so I'd be into that.

I found the camps very social, there was downtime so we could actually talk, the mobs could be very dangerous so it was important to get the kills right. Since it was important to level as quickly as one could, having an efficient camp was optimum. Why was it important to level "quickly."

Well, in a game where leveling was very slow at higher levels, one needed to find a way to get that xp flowing quickly and "safely." You see, there was a pvp element where a group could come in and remove you. Or die trying.

And the whole idea was to be as high a level as you could because that meant power. Power in pvp, power in taking over leveling areas and certainly power in sieges which to me was a main component of the game. Also, the raids gave gear which was very important as enchanting them beyond a certain point could possibly destroy them. Along with that very specific items to that raid.

But one needed to be high level in order to be a part of that raid. And of course, pvp could happen during a raid so being more powerful was definitely "a thing."

I think in a game like Everquest, one just wants to level to see other content. There isn't really a "necessity" other than that as it's primarily pve game. Maybe there were pvp servers where things were different?

So, two people have answered me with explanations about why people did it, but that wasn't my question.

My question was "Why do you have fond memories of camping?"

(As I said, I played EQ and am intimately familiar with the reasons why camping was a thing.)

From the responses, it looks like people "enjoyed" it because it was the fastest way to level up. (Meaning they DID it because they had to, and they told themselves to enjoy it because it was the only practical way to play the game.)

To me, that points to terrible game design. I very seriously doubt Brad McQuaid and friends originally envisioned the core experience of EQ to be groups of people sitting at the fringes of a dungeon while their teammates brought them the same packs of monsters to kill over and over and over and over and over.

This is a totally understandable flaw, given that EQ was breaking new ground on so many levels, but today? Today, we know better. We can do better. We have much better tools, and we have tried a lot of different iterations on the MMO formula, so we know what works and what doesn't.

Sovrath did touch on the social aspect of downtime, which is all well and good, but it's not a great thing to try to bake into the mechanics of a video game. As for playing together efficiently ... I would argue that "efficient" is a terrible word to use, but of course I do believe that working well with a team is a pleasurable experience. However, it's an experience that can be had in any party-based game; camping is not a requirement.

I think it all goes back to my constant plea to devs everywhere -- PLEASE drop the idea of vertical progression. PLEASE give people a reason to play that doesn't involve ticking up meaningless numbers. If you want me to visit a haunted castle, give me a reason to do so that's meaningful to my character, not just some abstract concept like XP.

This can be cool-looking transmogs, furniture for my (instanced) home or guild hall, abilities that can be learned only by battling a specific boss, or even something much more advanced like suppressing an evil factions attacks on nearby trade routes (which feed into the player-based economy). Better yet, come up with something I haven't even thought of.

Sovrath · August 13

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on why? I played EQ, and I found myself constantly frustrated that everyone just wanted to sit around in one spot instead of, y'know, going on adventures.

I'm not advocating for quest hubs. If anything, I think there's an over-reliance on quests in MMO design. But there are more than two options here, so maybe it would be worthwhile to look beyond these two bad ones.

Well, what does "adventures" actually mean? I suppose one could consider making their way through a dungeon or some sort of outside area an adventure so I'd be into that.

I found the camps very social, there was downtime so we could actually talk, the mobs could be very dangerous so it was important to get the kills right. Since it was important to level as quickly as one could, having an efficient camp was optimum. Why was it important to level "quickly."

Well, in a game where leveling was very slow at higher levels, one needed to find a way to get that xp flowing quickly and "safely." You see, there was a pvp element where a group could come in and remove you. Or die trying.

And the whole idea was to be as high a level as you could because that meant power. Power in pvp, power in taking over leveling areas and certainly power in sieges which to me was a main component of the game. Also, the raids gave gear which was very important as enchanting them beyond a certain point could possibly destroy them. Along with that very specific items to that raid.

But one needed to be high level in order to be a part of that raid. And of course, pvp could happen during a raid so being more powerful was definitely "a thing."

I think in a game like Everquest, one just wants to level to see other content. There isn't really a "necessity" other than that as it's primarily pve game. Maybe there were pvp servers where things were different?

So, two people have answered me with explanations about why people did it, but that wasn't my question.

My question was "Why do you have fond memories of camping?"

I just answered? All of that.

kitarad · August 13

There was several good things about camping.

One was the chatting we did.

The second was the camaraderie we shared because it was usually with people we knew.

Third was the sense of security that we were safe if anything went wrong.

Fourth was the certainty that at some point the item you needed would drop and you might get it.

Fifth was the sense of belonging to a community because we not only chatted among ourselves but also zone wide as there was a lot of downtime. This gave us a great deal of insight and knowledge of people on the server. This is something absolutely absent these days. I think I can say that on my Everquest server we knew most of the people. Every bad and good thing is all laid bare and reputations mattered.

Trust which is mostly absent these days because again reputation mattered so while camping we could based on the person's reputation trust them or not.

While roaming about instead of camping is now the norm there was in this much older game a more relaxed and more social aspect that could not be achieved without spending large amount of time in one place.

I find that it suited Everquest and how it is structured and I think it was enjoyable.

Xiaoki · August 13

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on why? I played EQ, and I found myself constantly frustrated that everyone just wanted to sit around in one spot instead of, y'know, going on adventures.

I'm not advocating for quest hubs. If anything, I think there's an over-reliance on quests in MMO design. But there are more than two options here, so maybe it would be worthwhile to look beyond these two bad ones.

Well, what does "adventures" actually mean? I suppose one could consider making their way through a dungeon or some sort of outside area an adventure so I'd be into that.

I found the camps very social, there was downtime so we could actually talk, the mobs could be very dangerous so it was important to get the kills right. Since it was important to level as quickly as one could, having an efficient camp was optimum. Why was it important to level "quickly."

Well, in a game where leveling was very slow at higher levels, one needed to find a way to get that xp flowing quickly and "safely." You see, there was a pvp element where a group could come in and remove you. Or die trying.

And the whole idea was to be as high a level as you could because that meant power. Power in pvp, power in taking over leveling areas and certainly power in sieges which to me was a main component of the game. Also, the raids gave gear which was very important as enchanting them beyond a certain point could possibly destroy them. Along with that very specific items to that raid.

But one needed to be high level in order to be a part of that raid. And of course, pvp could happen during a raid so being more powerful was definitely "a thing."

I think in a game like Everquest, one just wants to level to see other content. There isn't really a "necessity" other than that as it's primarily pve game. Maybe there were pvp servers where things were different?

So, two people have answered me with explanations about why people did it, but that wasn't my question.

My question was "Why do you have fond memories of camping?"

I just answered? All of that.

You did, bit in a way that sounds very unappealing.

Thankfully, I never played EQ1 but I did play FF11, which unfortunately used EQ1 as a blueprint.

I do have some fond memories of sitting in one place and killing single enemies over and over again for hours.

But, I have way more memories of when the groups didn't go well or sitting in a zone looking for a group for hours and hours until I logged off.

This type of MMO died for a reason. The developers of Embers Adrift forgot that and it seems like Memories and Monsters forgot as well.

Tiller · August 13

ShinyFlygon said:

Even when I go to the collection of M&M articles, I see nothing but stories that assume everyone knows what this tiny little niche game is.

I've never heard of it, I can't even figure out what type of game it is, and I can't get excited about it on the basis of a mere stress test.

There are links in the article to previous articles about the game, also Google exists?

[Deleted User] · August 13

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Sovrath · August 13

Xiaoki said:

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on why? I played EQ, and I found myself constantly frustrated that everyone just wanted to sit around in one spot instead of, y'know, going on adventures.

I'm not advocating for quest hubs. If anything, I think there's an over-reliance on quests in MMO design. But there are more than two options here, so maybe it would be worthwhile to look beyond these two bad ones.

Well, what does "adventures" actually mean? I suppose one could consider making their way through a dungeon or some sort of outside area an adventure so I'd be into that.

I found the camps very social, there was downtime so we could actually talk, the mobs could be very dangerous so it was important to get the kills right. Since it was important to level as quickly as one could, having an efficient camp was optimum. Why was it important to level "quickly."

Well, in a game where leveling was very slow at higher levels, one needed to find a way to get that xp flowing quickly and "safely." You see, there was a pvp element where a group could come in and remove you. Or die trying.

And the whole idea was to be as high a level as you could because that meant power. Power in pvp, power in taking over leveling areas and certainly power in sieges which to me was a main component of the game. Also, the raids gave gear which was very important as enchanting them beyond a certain point could possibly destroy them. Along with that very specific items to that raid.

But one needed to be high level in order to be a part of that raid. And of course, pvp could happen during a raid so being more powerful was definitely "a thing."

I think in a game like Everquest, one just wants to level to see other content. There isn't really a "necessity" other than that as it's primarily pve game. Maybe there were pvp servers where things were different?

So, two people have answered me with explanations about why people did it, but that wasn't my question.

My question was "Why do you have fond memories of camping?"

I just answered? All of that.

You did, bit in a way that sounds very unappealing.

Well it was the reason I had fond memories as it was appealing to me!

ShinyFlygon · August 14

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

I have extremely fond memories of being in a camp to kill mobs in dangerous places. Certainly fonder memories than running to a quest hub, grabbing some quests (and I tried to read all of them) and then running to some place to gather or kill a few things before turning them in.

Of course in Lineage 2 there was always a PvP threat to make it a bit edgier.

for one welcome the leveling camps.

Sorry, but can you elaborate on why? I played EQ, and I found myself constantly frustrated that everyone just wanted to sit around in one spot instead of, y'know, going on adventures.

I'm not advocating for quest hubs. If anything, I think there's an over-reliance on quests in MMO design. But there are more than two options here, so maybe it would be worthwhile to look beyond these two bad ones.

Well, what does "adventures" actually mean? I suppose one could consider making their way through a dungeon or some sort of outside area an adventure so I'd be into that.

I found the camps very social, there was downtime so we could actually talk, the mobs could be very dangerous so it was important to get the kills right. Since it was important to level as quickly as one could, having an efficient camp was optimum. Why was it important to level "quickly."

Well, in a game where leveling was very slow at higher levels, one needed to find a way to get that xp flowing quickly and "safely." You see, there was a pvp element where a group could come in and remove you. Or die trying.

And the whole idea was to be as high a level as you could because that meant power. Power in pvp, power in taking over leveling areas and certainly power in sieges which to me was a main component of the game. Also, the raids gave gear which was very important as enchanting them beyond a certain point could possibly destroy them. Along with that very specific items to that raid.

But one needed to be high level in order to be a part of that raid. And of course, pvp could happen during a raid so being more powerful was definitely "a thing."

I think in a game like Everquest, one just wants to level to see other content. There isn't really a "necessity" other than that as it's primarily pve game. Maybe there were pvp servers where things were different?

So, two people have answered me with explanations about why people did it, but that wasn't my question.

My question was "Why do you have fond memories of camping?"

I just answered? All of that.

You barely did. Most of your reply was about why camping existed, not why you think it is a good thing to have in a game.

If you just want to sit and chat with friends while you play a game, Discord exists.

ShinyFlygon · August 14

kitarad said:

There was several good things about camping.

One was the chatting we did.

The second was the camaraderie we shared because it was usually with people we knew.

Third was the sense of security that we were safe if anything went wrong.

Fourth was the certainty that at some point the item you needed would drop and you might get it.

Fifth was the sense of belonging to a community because we not only chatted among ourselves but also zone wide as there was a lot of downtime. This gave us a great deal of insight and knowledge of people on the server. This is something absolutely absent these days. I think I can say that on my Everquest server we knew most of the people. Every bad and good thing is all laid bare and reputations mattered.

Trust which is mostly absent these days because again reputation mattered so while camping we could based on the person's reputation trust them or not.

While roaming about instead of camping is now the norm there was in this much older game a more relaxed and more social aspect that could not be achieved without spending large amount of time in one place.

I find that it suited Everquest and how it is structured and I think it was enjoyable.

1. Chatting happens in Discord these days, and it can be done no matter what type of game you are playing, no matter what you are doing in that game.

2. See above.

3. That sense of security is an aspect of any party-based game. It has nothing to do with camping in one spot and repetitively killing the same mobs.

4. I would argue that you could NOT be certain your item would drop in a reasonable time frame. EQ in particular was known for days-long camps that never bore fruit.

5. You did not know everyone on your server. You may have known a lot of people, but you did not know most of the people. I'm sure you were part of a community, but I'm just as sure your community excluded far more people than it included.

In more modern games, community forms in places like the General chat channel of COH or the zone-wide chat in major cities of other games. It may have happened to a degree by camping in EQ, but it does not require camping.

kitarad · August 14

We are talking about memories right. Why we liked camping in 1999. How did this morph into now and discord. Of course camping isn't going to be the same as it was when EQ came out.

kitarad · August 14

ShinyFlygon said:

kitarad said:

There was several good things about camping.

One was the chatting we did.

The second was the camaraderie we shared because it was usually with people we knew.

Third was the sense of security that we were safe if anything went wrong.

Fourth was the certainty that at some point the item you needed would drop and you might get it.

Fifth was the sense of belonging to a community because we not only chatted among ourselves but also zone wide as there was a lot of downtime. This gave us a great deal of insight and knowledge of people on the server. This is something absolutely absent these days. I think I can say that on my Everquest server we knew most of the people. Every bad and good thing is all laid bare and reputations mattered.

Trust which is mostly absent these days because again reputation mattered so while camping we could based on the person's reputation trust them or not.

While roaming about instead of camping is now the norm there was in this much older game a more relaxed and more social aspect that could not be achieved without spending large amount of time in one place.

I find that it suited Everquest and how it is structured and I think it was enjoyable.

1. Chatting happens in Discord these days, and it can be done no matter what type of game you are playing, no matter what you are doing in that game.

2. See above.

3. That sense of security is an aspect of any party-based game. It has nothing to do with camping in one spot and repetitively killing the same mobs.

4. I would argue that you could NOT be certain your item would drop in a reasonable time frame. EQ in particular was known for days-long camps that never bore fruit.

5. You did not know everyone on your server. You may have known a lot of people, but you did not know most of the people. I'm sure you were part of a community, but I'm just as sure your community excluded far more people than it included.

In more modern games, community forms in places like the General chat channel of COH or the zone-wide chat in major cities of other games. It may have happened to a degree by camping in EQ, but it does not require camping.

I have a problem with your response. See you asked what was it that we liked about camping in EQ.

I tried to answer you but you're more interested in shooting the answers down. I mean this is a game from 1999 and our feelings are mixed up with a lot of things like this being my first MMORPG and the fact that I had never played a game like this. How was I supposed to react to all this new experiences or even think that there are better ways to gain experience. This was how others played and I was just enjoying playing the game I found absolutely riveting and sometimes I spent crazy hours in the game. 36 hours straight in Fear or 10 hours in Guk

How can we accurately divorce everything we liked from all the other new experiences we were handling. You're looking at it from a 'now' point of view. I am talking about what it felt like then.

You already made it clear you don't like camping but now you want to argue and tell me that what I felt can be obtained in better ways now. That my experiences were 'less' to you. You are reasoning my reasons away as if they can be separated from the other things that were going on in my first experience online.

So you breakdown my answer for what reason exactly. What is it you're trying to prove ? That I am mistaken about liking camping at that time. I agree with @Sovrath 's sentiments. We were fond of it and it appealed to us.

You don't get it so don't bother. To hell with this.

Sovrath · August 14

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

You barely did. Most of your reply was about why camping existed, not why you think it is a good thing to have in a game.

If you just want to sit and chat with friends while you play a game, Discord exists.

Nonsense. Read the whole post. “Cliff’s Notes” Yes it was the social aspect but also the possible danger of a wipe with sudden spawns all the time being mindful of player enemies who might attack you.

Also discord didn’t exist then.

ShinyFlygon · August 14

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

You barely did. Most of your reply was about why camping existed, not why you think it is a good thing to have in a game.

If you just want to sit and chat with friends while you play a game, Discord exists.

Nonsense. Read the whole post. “Cliff’s Notes” Yes it was the social aspect but also the possible danger of a wipe with sudden spawns all the time being mindful of player enemies who might attack you.

Also discord didn’t exist then.

This whole discussion is about whether camping is a positive inclusion in a modern MMO, which is why I mentioned Discord.

As for the danger of player enemies, this will not be a consideration for the vast majority of players in this largely PvE game. It is surely not a core design element or a reason for the developers to encourage camping behavior.

That leaves us with "sudden spawns," which I will categorize as "emergent gameplay," something I fully support. Predictability is exactly the problem I'm on the soapbox about, after all.

Sovrath · August 14

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

ShinyFlygon said:

Sovrath said:

You barely did. Most of your reply was about why camping existed, not why you think it is a good thing to have in a game.

If you just want to sit and chat with friends while you play a game, Discord exists.

Nonsense. Read the whole post. “Cliff’s Notes” Yes it was the social aspect but also the possible danger of a wipe with sudden spawns all the time being mindful of player enemies who might attack you.

Also discord didn’t exist then.

This whole discussion is about whether camping is a positive inclusion in a modern MMO, which is why I mentioned Discord.

As for the danger of player enemies, this will not be a consideration for the vast majority of players in this largely PvE game. It is surely not a core design element or a reason for the developers to encourage camping behavior.

That leaves us with "sudden spawns," which I will categorize as "emergent gameplay," something I fully support. Predictability is exactly the problem I'm on the soapbox about, after all.

Regardless I answered that one question and you said it was unappealing…

My question was "Why do you have fond memories of camping?"

And I answered it. You want an answer more pointed toward the modern mmo? Same answer.

Your claim that Discord solves the social part doesn’t really speak to the actual experience.

There is a difference between “shootin’ the shit” and discussing the task at hand. For those who want to group they want to do something together. If it’s not going through a dungeon it’s camping.

Because camping takes some time. What are the modern mmorpg dungeons that don’t take a few minutes if they even have them. Actual question.

At least when I started Black desert we could camp an area and also discuss what we were doing. Not to mention the aforementioned pvp element. You then had a group to backing you up.

As far as this game? I think it speaks to the enjoyment that EverQuest players had when grouping and camping. I f this game launches I bet people will group and camp because that’s how they enjoyed these games.

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