How about players creating new spells in the game. Spells that don't exist in the or your database. Something original.
The idea is fun, but any system will have limits - for example, once you find the "fireball" spell combo that does the most damage the players will start using only that. You could have millions of possible spell combinations, but in short order the entire player base would be using the same 10 spells.
Great ideas in MMOs are so often lost, spell research was in Asherons Call. But you did get a narrowing down to fewer "best" spells (if I remember right, been so long!). If you want to avoid that issue the studio could either keep bringing in new spells or make them dependant on environment, earth spells work best underground for example.
I'm still trying to digest everything they talk about, but if im honest, these pillars have me extremely worried. Everything sounds great on the surface, and makes total sense....
....but, my hopes for a good combat system are slipping away, very very quickly.
Ofc, as Raph himself keeps saying, "the proof is in the pudding", so I'll try to keep an open mind until I see specifics. But, despite his repeated use of the word "depth", the actual content of his design pillars seems to keep removing depth from the combat mechanics. I've never seen an action combat game with depth, action and depth are basically incompatible. They are targetting two totally different types of players, which is why combining them is basically impossible.
I assume you are defining depth as richness of tactical choice, that sort of thing. We haven't gone into it publicly yet, but we do have all the usual things that go into combat systems -- status effects, comboing/chaining between different specials and effects, managing resources, etc. It's not just pew-pew, for sure.
How about players creating new spells in the game. Spells that don't exist in the or your database. Something original.
This is something Camelot Unchained is aiming to do......should it ever release that is!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
How about players creating new spells in the game. Spells that don't exist in the or your database. Something original.
The idea is fun, but any system will have limits - for example, once you find the "fireball" spell combo that does the most damage the players will start using only that. You could have millions of possible spell combinations, but in short order the entire player base would be using the same 10 spells.
Great ideas in MMOs are so often lost, spell research was in Asherons Call. But you did get a narrowing down to fewer "best" spells (if I remember right, been so long!). If you want to avoid that issue the studio could either keep bringing in new spells or make them dependant on environment, earth spells work best underground for example.
I like that idea of environment. Add in resistances, such as some Earth Elementals having special resistance to earth spells, and that leaves other choices, both for offense and defense, for the Players to consider. But not always. It kind of opens things up a bit more, and based on knowledge of said game world.
But this is Stars Reach, no magic as far as I know. The same can apply to SyFy, though.
How about players creating new spells in the game. Spells that don't exist in the or your database. Something original.
The idea is fun, but any system will have limits - for example, once you find the "fireball" spell combo that does the most damage the players will start using only that. You could have millions of possible spell combinations, but in short order the entire player base would be using the same 10 spells.
Great ideas in MMOs are so often lost, spell research was in Asherons Call. But you did get a narrowing down to fewer "best" spells (if I remember right, been so long!). If you want to avoid that issue the studio could either keep bringing in new spells or make them dependant on environment, earth spells work best underground for example.
I like that idea of environment. Add in resistances, such as some Earth Elementals having special resistance to earth spells, and that leaves other choices, both for offense and defense, for the Players to consider. But not always. It kind of opens things up a bit more, and based on knowledge of said game world.
But this is Stars Reach, no magic as far as I know. The same can apply to SyFy, though.
Yes this whole idea is equally applicable in hard science, you don't need psi powers or some such. Players would research technology that leads to devices, that do things uncannily similar to spells.
How about players creating new spells in the game. Spells that don't exist in the or your database. Something original.
The idea is fun, but any system will have limits - for example, once you find the "fireball" spell combo that does the most damage the players will start using only that. You could have millions of possible spell combinations, but in short order the entire player base would be using the same 10 spells.
Great ideas in MMOs are so often lost, spell research was in Asherons Call. But you did get a narrowing down to fewer "best" spells (if I remember right, been so long!). If you want to avoid that issue the studio could either keep bringing in new spells or make them dependant on environment, earth spells work best underground for example.
I like the contextual idea.
I'd also like to see players have hidden stats that impact how effective the spells are for them. So one player has a 20% earth spell bonus, another has 20% in something else.
@Raph , while perusing some info at the Stars Reach site, I saw a vid where a couple of players used a belt to fly. It had a really well done, very slight, sparkle on the belt that I thought was perfect, not splashy and overdone like so many games.
My question is, if the player is allowed to choose 5 skills (on 5 tools) to load onto their tool belt, will players also get items that grant abilities on top of that?
I have a huge concern that players are going to revolt over those restrictions. I'm hoping that will be reviewed later on.
Just noting for those who are interested, I also saw a character wearing a loose fitting outfit. Other advances in art, mainly scenery, too. Looking better and better.
@Raph , while perusing some info at the Stars Reach site, I saw a vid where a couple of players used a belt to fly. It had a really well done, very slight, sparkle on the belt that I thought was perfect, not splashy and overdone like so many games.
My question is, if the player is allowed to choose 5 skills (on 5 tools) to load onto their tool belt, will players also get items that grant abilities on top of that?
I have a huge concern that players are going to revolt over those restrictions. I'm hoping that will be reviewed later on.
The player is going to be limited to 5 skills at a time? Is this slated for a console release?
This is a big turn-off for me. The net effect is that almost all players are going to be set up the same.
DAOC has three realms with different classes for each realm. Each class has multiple "specs" that allow the class to be played differently from others of the same class with a different spec. That made for a ton of possible combinations.
ESO has three realms, but the classes are the same for each one. And each class has a small handful of skills that you can use at any one time. Most characters end up playing very similarly. A total dumb-down and turn-off for me.
The only rationale for going backwards so badly is that ESO is for consoles and they have only a few buttons to use at any one time.
""DAOC has three realms with different classes for each realm. Each class has multiple "specs" that allow the class to be played differently from others of the same class with a different spec. That made for a ton of possible combinations.""
One of my all time favorite games due to the endless amount of Alts I could make. The number of unique classes was something crazy like 45-50.. 50 f*ing classes. Why didn't that become the norm?!
""DAOC has three realms with different classes for each realm. Each class has multiple "specs" that allow the class to be played differently from others of the same class with a different spec. That made for a ton of possible combinations.""
One of my all time favorite games due to the endless amount of Alts I could make. The number of unique classes was something crazy like 45-50.. 50 f*ing classes. Why didn't that become the norm?!
I think it has to do with two things:
1) you can't have a lot of different abilities on a console game, there aren't enough keys or buttons. Games back then were for PC's which use keyboards. It was common for games to have 20, 30, or even 40 skills available at one time. The console market is huge so they limited what players could do to accommodate it.
2) Games have changed from a more strategic approach, like which skill is best to use for this situation, to a more twitch base, like how fast can I dodge-roll and get off an attack. This was because a lot of what I call "Mortal Kombat kiddies" started playing MMORPG's. It became less of an RPG focus and more of an action focus like an arcade game. Those kiddies don't want to spend hours trying to get the best build and skills, they want to hack-n-slash now.
Also, the development effort to create all those skills is more than just developing a few. It is easier to balance them too, since there are so few. Why try to balance 30 classes when you can just make 4 and be done with it?
I'm still trying to digest everything they talk about, but if im honest, these pillars have me extremely worried. Everything sounds great on the surface, and makes total sense....
....but, my hopes for a good combat system are slipping away, very very quickly.
Ofc, as Raph himself keeps saying, "the proof is in the pudding", so I'll try to keep an open mind until I see specifics. But, despite his repeated use of the word "depth", the actual content of his design pillars seems to keep removing depth from the combat mechanics. I've never seen an action combat game with depth, action and depth are basically incompatible. They are targetting two totally different types of players, which is why combining them is basically impossible.
I assume you are defining depth as richness of tactical choice, that sort of thing. We haven't gone into it publicly yet, but we do have all the usual things that go into combat systems -- status effects, comboing/chaining between different specials and effects, managing resources, etc. It's not just pew-pew, for sure.
How about players creating new spells in the game. Spells that don't exist in the or your database. Something original.
This is something Camelot Unchained is aiming to do......should it ever release that is!
In Ryzom, the player has to create all their own spells. There are certain parameters like damage type, recharge speed, range, damage amount, etc. They have costs that are balanced against credits that you have earned.
So you can make a very fast and short-ranged attack that costs little stamina, or a long range slow attack that does a lot of damage, or a short range high dmg attack, etc. There are no preset spells to cast. Melee dmg can be piercing, smashing, cutting, etc. Magic types are electric, fire, ice, etc.
But there is no way to create a brand new skill, so if I decide I want to control water and drown people as an attack, the game doesn't provide for that. How could a game let me create a water attack complete with water graphics as something brand new?
I'm still trying to digest everything they talk about, but if im honest, these pillars have me extremely worried. Everything sounds great on the surface, and makes total sense....
....but, my hopes for a good combat system are slipping away, very very quickly.
Ofc, as Raph himself keeps saying, "the proof is in the pudding", so I'll try to keep an open mind until I see specifics. But, despite his repeated use of the word "depth", the actual content of his design pillars seems to keep removing depth from the combat mechanics. I've never seen an action combat game with depth, action and depth are basically incompatible. They are targetting two totally different types of players, which is why combining them is basically impossible.
I assume you are defining depth as richness of tactical choice, that sort of thing. We haven't gone into it publicly yet, but we do have all the usual things that go into combat systems -- status effects, comboing/chaining between different specials and effects, managing resources, etc. It's not just pew-pew, for sure.
How about players creating new spells in the game. Spells that don't exist in the or your database. Something original.
This is something Camelot Unchained is aiming to do......should it ever release that is!
In Ryzom, the player has to create all their own spells. There are certain parameters like damage type, recharge speed, range, damage amount, etc. They have costs that are balanced against credits that you have earned.
So you can make a very fast and short-ranged attack that costs little stamina, or a long range slow attack that does a lot of damage, or a short range high dmg attack, etc. There are no preset spells to cast. Melee dmg can be piercing, smashing, cutting, etc. Magic types are electric, fire, ice, etc.
But there is no way to create a brand new skill, so if I decide I want to control water and drown people as an attack, the game doesn't provide for that. How could a game let me create a water attack complete with water graphics as something brand new?
It could provide a standard graphic based off the primary attack type. Some sort of glyph or some such thing.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
1) you can't have a lot of different abilities on a console game, there aren't enough keys or buttons. Games back then were for PC's which use keyboards. It was common for games to have 20, 30, or even 40 skills available at one time. The console market is huge so they limited what players could do to accommodate it.
I am afraid you're mistaken you can map 48 skills on a controller in FFXIV. Surely that number is more than enough.
It is up to the game to support it. It has been long been the mistaken belief controllers are not capable of more than a few skills on the hot bar.
I'm still trying to digest everything they talk about, but if im honest, these pillars have me extremely worried. Everything sounds great on the surface, and makes total sense....
....but, my hopes for a good combat system are slipping away, very very quickly.
Ofc, as Raph himself keeps saying, "the proof is in the pudding", so I'll try to keep an open mind until I see specifics. But, despite his repeated use of the word "depth", the actual content of his design pillars seems to keep removing depth from the combat mechanics. I've never seen an action combat game with depth, action and depth are basically incompatible. They are targetting two totally different types of players, which is why combining them is basically impossible.
I assume you are defining depth as richness of tactical choice, that sort of thing. We haven't gone into it publicly yet, but we do have all the usual things that go into combat systems -- status effects, comboing/chaining between different specials and effects, managing resources, etc. It's not just pew-pew, for sure.
How about players creating new spells in the game. Spells that don't exist in the or your database. Something original.
This is something Camelot Unchained is aiming to do......should it ever release that is!
In Ryzom, the player has to create all their own spells. There are certain parameters like damage type, recharge speed, range, damage amount, etc. They have costs that are balanced against credits that you have earned.
So you can make a very fast and short-ranged attack that costs little stamina, or a long range slow attack that does a lot of damage, or a short range high dmg attack, etc. There are no preset spells to cast. Melee dmg can be piercing, smashing, cutting, etc. Magic types are electric, fire, ice, etc.
But there is no way to create a brand new skill, so if I decide I want to control water and drown people as an attack, the game doesn't provide for that. How could a game let me create a water attack complete with water graphics as something brand new?
It could provide a standard graphic based off the primary attack type. Some sort of glyph or some such thing.
City of Heroes added the ability to change the colors of your spells. So now you can make a water attack that is colored red and orange, and you can role-play it as a lava attack. Perhaps a set of templates for different kinds of attacks along with the ability to customize the colors and maybe some of the details would be good enough.
1) you can't have a lot of different abilities on a console game, there aren't enough keys or buttons. Games back then were for PC's which use keyboards. It was common for games to have 20, 30, or even 40 skills available at one time. The console market is huge so they limited what players could do to accommodate it.
I am afraid you're mistaken you can map 48 skills on a controller in FFXIV. Surely that number is more than enough.
It is up to the game to support it. It has been long been the mistaken belief controllers are not capable of more than a few skills on the hot bar.
1) you can't have a lot of different abilities on a console game, there aren't enough keys or buttons. Games back then were for PC's which use keyboards. It was common for games to have 20, 30, or even 40 skills available at one time. The console market is huge so they limited what players could do to accommodate it.
I am afraid you're mistaken you can map 48 skills on a controller in FFXIV. Surely that number is more than enough.
It is up to the game to support it. It has been long been the mistaken belief controllers are not capable of more than a few skills on the hot bar.
Yeah, I actually did know that It's the only game that does it as far as I know though.
How easy would it be to use all 48 skills in an action oriented game, as opposed to FFXIV which is more old style?
Well in Undecember you can map 10 skills using the trigger to switch bars plus 4 potions on D-pad. So that is 14 buttons. The game must support it and a lot of developers are just plain lazy to develop for the controller. Looking at you Last Epoch.
Using Joy2Key I played WoW on a controller. With a lot of skills on the d-pad too. I was playing a hunter to boot so had pet skills to map too.
Controller is so often just an after thought in a lot of games and they just plain suck at making it as playable as the mouse and kb. In Last Epoch you cannot target heals with it nor can you reliably use traversal skills with it.
""DAOC has three realms with different classes for each realm. Each class has multiple "specs" that allow the class to be played differently from others of the same class with a different spec. That made for a ton of possible combinations.""
One of my all time favorite games due to the endless amount of Alts I could make. The number of unique classes was something crazy like 45-50.. 50 f*ing classes. Why didn't that become the norm?!
The simplification of gaming, when the previous CEO of Electronic Arts started the job he said to investors "we will make games your mum can play". But even by the time he was appointed gaming was well on the way to dumbing down.
""DAOC has three realms with different classes for each realm. Each class has multiple "specs" that allow the class to be played differently from others of the same class with a different spec. That made for a ton of possible combinations.""
One of my all time favorite games due to the endless amount of Alts I could make. The number of unique classes was something crazy like 45-50.. 50 f*ing classes. Why didn't that become the norm?!
The simplification of gaming, when the previous CEO of Electronic Arts started the job he said to investors "we will make games your mum can play". But even by the time he was appointed gaming was well on the way to dumbing down.
The costs of making an MMO has just gotten to high, so they are trying to force in more simple designs. But therein lies the rub. Gamers don't want to over-simplify, and that's what's happening. I think that's, in large part, one of the reasons that MMO's have been in a slow die-off. That, and the basic Themepark design principles (which I have no doubt that @Raph has an answer to.
""DAOC has three realms with different classes for each realm. Each class has multiple "specs" that allow the class to be played differently from others of the same class with a different spec. That made for a ton of possible combinations.""
One of my all time favorite games due to the endless amount of Alts I could make. The number of unique classes was something crazy like 45-50.. 50 f*ing classes. Why didn't that become the norm?!
The simplification of gaming, when the previous CEO of Electronic Arts started the job he said to investors "we will make games your mum can play". But even by the time he was appointed gaming was well on the way to dumbing down.
The costs of making an MMO has just gotten to high, so they are trying to force in more simple designs. But therein lies the rub. Gamers don't want to over-simplify, and that's what's happening. I think that's, in large part, one of the reasons that MMO's have been in a slow die-off. That, and the basic Themepark design principles (which I have no doubt that @Raph has an answer to.
I tend to give studios the benefit of the doubt until we see the reviews, but yes the design problems in MMOs are not easy to overcome. I don't blame just studios for the dumbing down, you only have to look to mobile and its influence to see why that push to simplification shows no sign of slowing down.
My question is, if the player is allowed to choose 5 skills (on 5 tools)
to load onto their tool belt, will players also get items that grant
abilities on top of that?
No, this is a misunderstanding. You can have 5 tools on your toolbelt at a time. Each tool, though, can have multiple skills, including combat weapons. Some tools even have modes you can swap between that move between sets of skills.
In combat you also always have a "charge shot," that's common to all weapons.
You can only swap out tools at a camp or locker in a safe area.
' Looking forward to seeing how this new installment enhances the game’s universe and gameplay. Can't wait to dive in!DME of America: Cutting-edge Medical Equipment Solutions like Luggie Folding Power Wheelchair Transforming Healthcare Across the United States.
My question is, if the player is allowed to choose 5 skills (on 5 tools)
to load onto their tool belt, will players also get items that grant
abilities on top of that?
No, this is a misunderstanding. You can have 5 tools on your toolbelt at a time. Each tool, though, can have multiple skills, including combat weapons. Some tools even have modes you can swap between that move between sets of skills.
In combat you also always have a "charge shot," that's common to all weapons.
You can only swap out tools at a camp or locker in a safe area.
Ahh, yes, I knew that but not well enough to understand it. I just spent some time looking back at the Discord channels and found out about the Skills, and especially "respec." This sounds very much like UO's system, which I absolutely loved. Different, but a very similar system (in effect).
Comments
This is something Camelot Unchained is aiming to do......should it ever release that is!
But this is Stars Reach, no magic as far as I know. The same can apply to SyFy, though.
Once upon a time....
I'd also like to see players have hidden stats that impact how effective the spells are for them. So one player has a 20% earth spell bonus, another has 20% in something else.
It had a really well done, very slight, sparkle on the belt that I thought was perfect, not splashy and overdone like so many games.
My question is, if the player is allowed to choose 5 skills (on 5 tools) to load onto their tool belt, will players also get items that grant abilities on top of that?
I have a huge concern that players are going to revolt over those restrictions.
I'm hoping that will be reviewed later on.
Once upon a time....
Other advances in art, mainly scenery, too. Looking better and better.
Once upon a time....
We're hurt by the ones we love.
This is a big turn-off for me. The net effect is that almost all players are going to be set up the same.
DAOC has three realms with different classes for each realm. Each class has multiple "specs" that allow the class to be played differently from others of the same class with a different spec. That made for a ton of possible combinations.
ESO has three realms, but the classes are the same for each one. And each class has a small handful of skills that you can use at any one time. Most characters end up playing very similarly. A total dumb-down and turn-off for me.
The only rationale for going backwards so badly is that ESO is for consoles and they have only a few buttons to use at any one time.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
One of my all time favorite games due to the endless amount of Alts I could make. The number of unique classes was something crazy like 45-50.. 50 f*ing classes. Why didn't that become the norm?!
1) you can't have a lot of different abilities on a console game, there aren't enough keys or buttons. Games back then were for PC's which use keyboards. It was common for games to have 20, 30, or even 40 skills available at one time. The console market is huge so they limited what players could do to accommodate it.
2) Games have changed from a more strategic approach, like which skill is best to use for this situation, to a more twitch base, like how fast can I dodge-roll and get off an attack. This was because a lot of what I call "Mortal Kombat kiddies" started playing MMORPG's. It became less of an RPG focus and more of an action focus like an arcade game. Those kiddies don't want to spend hours trying to get the best build and skills, they want to hack-n-slash now.
Also, the development effort to create all those skills is more than just developing a few. It is easier to balance them too, since there are so few. Why try to balance 30 classes when you can just make 4 and be done with it?
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
So you can make a very fast and short-ranged attack that costs little stamina, or a long range slow attack that does a lot of damage, or a short range high dmg attack, etc. There are no preset spells to cast. Melee dmg can be piercing, smashing, cutting, etc. Magic types are electric, fire, ice, etc.
But there is no way to create a brand new skill, so if I decide I want to control water and drown people as an attack, the game doesn't provide for that. How could a game let me create a water attack complete with water graphics as something brand new?
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Surely that number is more than enough.
It is up to the game to support it. It has been long been the mistaken belief controllers are not capable of more than a few skills on the hot bar.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/8jkizr/controller_skill_layout/
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
How easy would it be to use all 48 skills in an action oriented game, as opposed to FFXIV which is more old style?
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Using Joy2Key I played WoW on a controller. With a lot of skills on the d-pad too. I was playing a hunter to boot so had pet skills to map too.
Controller is so often just an after thought in a lot of games and they just plain suck at making it as playable as the mouse and kb. In Last Epoch you cannot target heals with it nor can you reliably use traversal skills with it.
THEY DO LOVE YOU!
Once upon a time....
But therein lies the rub. Gamers don't want to over-simplify, and that's what's happening.
I think that's, in large part, one of the reasons that MMO's have been in a slow die-off.
That, and the basic Themepark design principles (which I have no doubt that @Raph has an answer to.
Once upon a time....
In combat you also always have a "charge shot," that's common to all weapons.
I just spent some time looking back at the Discord channels and found out about the Skills, and especially "respec." This sounds very much like UO's system, which I absolutely loved.
Different, but a very similar system (in effect).
One more question.
When is it going live?
Once upon a time....
This weekend. For only two hours. IF you have access.