It butchers his work in the same way everything else has. Animation, Jackson's movies, video games, etc...
Tolkien is impossible to adapt to any media without creative license. Its the nature of his work.
So we have two options - just like with people who argue and screen about Star Wars, Harry Potter, and any other major fandom.
Either we get new media - movies, games, tv shows, anime, etc... or we do not. At the end of the day, I am thankful to get new Tolkien adaptations as it shows the desire for his stories and world is still thriving. I may disagree with changes or parts here of there but I will take it over a world where it ceases to be.
Oh, I definitely agree with the first part of your post; don't even get me started on the whole Shadow of Mordor nonsense, that would take an entire diatribe.
However, the second part is where I disagree completely. Sure, people enjoy all kinds of stuff and not everyone spends their evenings re-reading The Brothers Karamazov for 15th time. But that is not a reason for dumbing down existing classics so that they can be consumed by a popcorn-munching, soda-slurping audience laughing at feeble burp jokes.
There are many works that should not be adapted and should be left for the people to work towards, instead of trying to lower them to their level. It's the whole arguing with idiots maxim all over again.
Many people will not make the effort and that is fine (well, almost - it's just reality). But to instead completely ruin such material in order to get to their level - or worse yet, use it as a hollowed-out vehicle for your own pathetic fan fiction generously sprinkled with modern agitprop, as is the case with this show - is the exact opposite of what should be happening.
The whole idea is for the people to aspire to something more, something higher, especially intellectually. And if they are not willing to or unable to: they should definitely not be lied to by claiming the slop they're watching is actually what this or that great work is about. We've had plenty of experience with rewriting history and this is the same thing happening again through "adaptation" of cultural works. It is just as dangerous as what we saw last century.
Hollywood has been an endless deluge of slop for the better part of two decades and this new instalment just shows how low they are willing to push the bar.
It reminds me a bit of Mitchell
Or the Idiocracy.
There’s always someone with their line in the sand.
These works are inspiring and that’s how I look at any movie, show or game “inspired by Lord of the Rings.”
and some do much better than others.
absolutely loved the movies, warts and all. And I absolutely loved them better than the books which, while having amazing world building, were a bit dry for me when I read them in high school.
I think that’s the real hook, the world building.
But there are people who despise the movies and that’s fair.
Then again having seen some of the previous attempts at adapting the stories they’re genius.
Rings of power isn’t great but it can be fun if one approaches the show with the idea of “inspired by.”
But unless you get a die hard Tolkien scholar with oodles of money and final say then this is about what you will get.
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I watched season 1 twice. Enjoyed it both times. /shrug Maybe I just don't get too caught up in "how things should be". Especially in a world as shallow (lore-wise) as Middle Earth.
Feel about the same. Liked the Fallout show even too, which surprised me.
For me, the Netflix Witcher series, live action Avatar: The Last Airbender, and Borderlands movie are the big disappointments.
I loved the Fallout show. So did my husband. There, two votes for it. I shall watch this series then. Haven't seen season 1 , I shall start there.
The first recorded knowledge of Hobbits was early 3rd Age but that just the recorded history. I think the characterization of the Harfoots is spot on in all ways of the Hobbits. That story is separate from Sauron and Numenor and Elves right now. Tolkien left holes in his writings and sometimes, to tell a complete story, those holes have to be filled.
Those holes do not "have to be filled" but I am appreciative that if you are forming a narrative you may have to do so. The Hobbits were parachuted in though, purely for branding reasons, there was no "hole to fill".
It butchers his work in the same way everything else has. Animation, Jackson's movies, video games, etc...
Tolkien is impossible to adapt to any media without creative license. Its the nature of his work.
So we have two options - just like with people who argue and screen about Star Wars, Harry Potter, and any other major fandom.
Either we get new media - movies, games, tv shows, anime, etc... or we do not. At the end of the day, I am thankful to get new Tolkien adaptations as it shows the desire for his stories and world is still thriving. I may disagree with changes or parts here of there but I will take it over a world where it ceases to be.
No, because you can discern between good adaptions and new material and the bad. But I am with you up to a point, we can go too far and expect a level of authenticity which is just not possible.
Just on the films, the Lotro films and the cartoon were great, the Hobbit films were not, you can discern between the two, you can give creative license and still hold true to the original.
Now posit this, let's say that Amazon had decided to redo Lotr with a modern day setting, the Greek myths have had that so why not Lotr? Here I (and I assume all of us) would expect far less authenticity, we would expect themes and interesting takes on characters but that's about it. On the other hand if you set an adaptation in the background of the original works you have to hold yourself to a far higher standard.
It seems the second series of RoP is taking that standard more seriously than the first and any Tolkein fan appreciates that. And as a fan I still hope they can turn the series into a stellar success and now there is a chink of hope for that.
I watched season 1 twice. Enjoyed it both times. /shrug Maybe I just don't get too caught up in "how things should be". Especially in a world as shallow (lore-wise) as Middle Earth.
What has deep lore if Middle-Earth is shallow? Honestly curious, the lore of Middle-Earth feels like a whole course of study.
I watched season 1 twice. Enjoyed it both times. /shrug Maybe I just don't get too caught up in "how things should be". Especially in a world as shallow (lore-wise) as Middle Earth.
Feel about the same. Liked the Fallout show even too, which surprised me.
For me, the Netflix Witcher series, live action Avatar: The Last Airbender, and Borderlands movie are the big disappointments.
Wheel of Time for me. Well, actually the Shannara TV series is by far the worst as it was my favorite book series growing up. Shannara was so bad that I actually couldn't watch the second season. WoT... I watched and will keep watching because of those rare times that it clicks, but so often my wife will ask me "Why are they doing this or that... it doesn't make any sense", and I just have to tell her "I have no idea, this has nothing to do with the books".
I get that things don't perfectly translate from the page to the screen and thus some changes need to be made. But I look at GoT and how awesome the first few seasons were, but then as they diverged further from the page it got worse and worse. There is a reason people like the source material, and every change risks destroying or at least diluting that.
People will say to just forget the books and try to enjoy the shows on their own, but it's pretty freaking hard to do if you actually like the source material. Because you can see the destruction of something you love. Often these changes undercut the whole point of the books. Some of the WoT changes are done in a way that reflects that the "showrunners" simply do not understand the source material, at all. Despite claims of beings huge fans. Same with The Witcher actually.
I think adaptations need to take a cue from the medical field when making changes. First, Do No Harm. And be as minimally invasive as possible. Millions of people love the original for a reason. It's the peak of hubris to believe that you are making a show BETTER by making changes to the original.
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I think this season is the last nail in the coffin for ROP. Not gonna spoil anything but if season 1 had really bad writing, bad acting (for the most part) and was highly disrespectful for the LoTR lore this season has turned it all to eleven.
I don't think I'm gonna even bother finishing the season. I had to fast forward/scroll 80% of episodes 2 & 3.
According to reports, Amazon, to secure the rights from the Tolkien estate, had to agree to 50 hours so roughly 4-5 seasons. Also, despites many people's objections and arguments, the show is a HUGE success on Prime. I fully expect 4-5 seasons based on pacing and story.
@Slapshot1188 Shannara was so so bad. I did like the lead female star as an actress but it was so bad in all other ways. Its a beloved fantasy series for me and I have read almost everything Brooks has written and the tv show was a travesty in so many ways.
@Slapshot1188 Shannara was so so bad. I did like the lead female star as an actress but it was so bad in all other ways. Its a beloved fantasy series for me and I have read almost everything Brooks has written and the tv show was a travesty in so many ways.
I liked Shannara but I never read the books, maybe that had something to do with why I did?
@Slapshot1188 Shannara was so so bad. I did like the lead female star as an actress but it was so bad in all other ways. Its a beloved fantasy series for me and I have read almost everything Brooks has written and the tv show was a travesty in so many ways.
I liked Shannara but I never read the books, maybe that had something to do with why I did?
I would agree with that. It seems the less acquainted with the books a viewer was, the more the liked it. For a fantasy story, it was fine, For a beloved Shannara story (and for many one of their fav characters/books/stories) it was hard to watch. They did plenty of harm and missed what made it so special.
Rings of power isn’t great but it can be fun if one approaches the show with the idea of “inspired by.”
But unless you get a die hard Tolkien scholar with oodles of money and final say then this is about what you will get.
So, it can be done, yet we must accept mediocrity because of reasons. In other words, the show is a bad adaptation, and far from what would actually be possible to make. But it isn't because, despite having Amazon's deep pockets at their disposal (the oodles of money), the creators of the show didn't want to make a proper adaptation. Not perfect, just as best as possible (like LOTR was). But they didn't care about the original, and they wanted to make it their own, as they basically said it themselves. So this was the end result.
In short, people disliking this show are right: it's an insult to the original source, and there's no valid reason for what they've done other than activism and mediocrity, while trying to get away with that by riding on the back of the success of others. Knowing that can, in fact, take the fun away from anything.
That aside, and with all due respect, I think that some people are trying too hard to find excuses to like the show. You can see it here with many of the posts basically stating that it was a slog and it had a lot of weird or bad stuff, but they endured (key word) it because there were a couple of good things. Personally, my time is valuable enough to not want to suffer through something unfun just because "maybe" it will get better later. Either you get my interest from the beginning or soon after, or you lose me as a viewer/customer. And it seems that a lot of people agree with this sentiment, judging by how every online user score for the show is below the 5/10.
I remember reading the Hobbit as a kid; and it was recommended reading in schools. I guess in some places in the US and Russia it's a banned book now along with LOTR because it's considered satanic. Who would have thought?
I tried to watch s02e01 this morning and fell asleep twice on it before closing the tab on my browser....
Lots of fails lately from hollywood, I just can't wait for them to accept that peeps are tired of reboots, rewrites and mutilation of famous, beloved, or classic IP's and the lore so writers and producers etc with inflated ego's can put their own "spin" while they somehow think they can make it "better" than the original authors did.
Dunno but I don't think anything is wrong with being faithful to the original works from IP's that have been super successful but surely people can open their damned eyes and see all these "improvements" and "modernizing" of said IP has been mostly one huge fail after another.
Sadly I don't think this is gonna change anytime soon. I watched the new Crow movie this week......while the actors in were okay I just have to wonder wtf were they thinking?
Just makes me further think this world is heading further into lala fantasy land cause people are losing sight of reality...lol
@Slapshot1188 Shannara was so so bad. I did like the lead female star as an actress but it was so bad in all other ways. Its a beloved fantasy series for me and I have read almost everything Brooks has written and the tv show was a travesty in so many ways.
I liked Shannara but I never read the books, maybe that had something to do with why I did?
Yes that is 110% it.
I have watched others shows based on book series that I have never read and thought heh this is okay, I would like to see more but then the shows gets canned. In every single case from what I can read and gather online they made serious efforts to butcher the source material.
I don't get how hollywood doesn't have the collective brain cells to make the link....
.....butchers source material to make it better or more modern =fails
and/or sever backlash
....stick true as possible to material with changes only due to change of medium tends to = big win, happy customers.
It's almost like they want to put political agendas, ideology and preaching at the audience ABOVE making good content.....go figure!
Put beards on them and non Tolkien fans are going to be confused.
No they wont.
I would say its pretty common knowledge lore wise that female dwarfs have beards and are hard to tell from the males....also it would have been far better to simply have one of the characters comments about that to make sure people are not "confused".
Too many changes like this have wimpy excuses like this along with the welp we have to change this case medium has went from paper to movie which is more often that not BS too.
It 100% hubris and fat headed ego's in control most of the time from the writers, directors etc.
Post edited by Asm0deus on
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I guess I just enjoy things for what they offer, not what everyone thinks they should have been. I loved Season 1 of the Rings of Power, just like I loved the Witcher series, the Hobbit series, and the newer Star Wars movies. I don't care if they followed the book or not or took liberties with the source content. I just liked the story and the characters, so I end up enjoying myself. I'd rather have these opportunities to watch these things in their respective universes than not have them at all.
Rings of power isn’t great but it can be fun if one approaches the show with the idea of “inspired by.”
But unless you get a die hard Tolkien scholar with oodles of money and final say then this is about what you will get.
So, it can be done, yet we must accept mediocrity because of reasons. In other words, the show is a bad adaptation, and far from what would actually be possible to make. But it isn't because, despite having Amazon's deep pockets at their disposal (the oodles of money), the creators of the show didn't want to make a proper adaptation. Not perfect, just as best as possible (like LOTR was). But they didn't care about the original, and they wanted to make it their own, as they basically said it themselves. So this was the end result.
In short, people disliking this show are right: it's an insult to the original source, and there's no valid reason for what they've done other than activism and mediocrity, while trying to get away with that by riding on the back of the success of others. Knowing that can, in fact, take the fun away from anything.
That aside, and with all due respect, I think that some people are trying too hard to find excuses to like the show. You can see it here with many of the posts basically stating that it was a slog and it had a lot of weird or bad stuff, but they endured (key word) it because there were a couple of good things. Personally, my time is valuable enough to not want to suffer through something unfun just because "maybe" it will get better later. Either you get my interest from the beginning or soon after, or you lose me as a viewer/customer. And it seems that a lot of people agree with this sentiment, judging by how every online user score for the show is below the 5/10.
Like I said, it requires someone with a reverence for the material and money and final say.
And also, as I said, even that might not be enough. I think Peter Jackson’s movies are great despite some questionable decisions and there are people who despise them.
”In short “ these movies and shows are for the people who might appreciate them. For those who want completely faithful adaptations you’r Going to have to do them yourselves.
good luck
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Put beards on them and non Tolkien fans are going to be confused.
No they wont.
I would say it’s pretty common knowledge lore wise that female dwarfs have beards and are hard to tell from the males....also it would have been far better to simply have one of the characters comments about ….
Omg.
listen to yourself.
Not what I was referring to.
Audience members won’t care even if there is a whole scene dedicated to female dwarves with beards.
The average non die hard fan or non-Uber dork will still think “why?”
No one is going to like that except for those understanding fans and those keeping score.
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Audience members won’t care even if there is a whole scene dedicated to female dwarves with beards.
The average non die hard fan or non-Uber dork will still think “why?”
No one is going to like that except for those understanding fans and those keeping score.
Not sure why you are getting so defensive here?
My comment was simply me saying I don't agree with that one statement you made thus why I snipped out the rest.
However since you want to be all O.M.G. about it....
Not sure how being faithful to basic lore that is not just lore for Tolkien but almost all other lore that has dwarves..... would be so difficult a concept to grasp for the audience...
Might want to stop making excuses for such garbage we are seeing from hollywood and maybe while you are at it stop thinking the average audience are stupid morons that would be "confused" about something so simple.
Your excuse is weak and far fetched. You almost sound like a tv show writer taking personal offense or something...
Maybe you need to listen to yourself instead?
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Audience members won’t care even if there is a whole scene dedicated to female dwarves with beards.
The average non die hard fan or non-Uber dork will still think “why?”
No one is going to like that except for those understanding fans and those keeping score.
Not sure why you are getting so defensive here?
My comment was simply me saying I don't agree with that one statement you made thus why I snipped out the rest.
However since you want to be all O.M.G. about it....
Not sure how being faithful to basic lore that is not just lore for Tolkien but almost all other lore that has dwarves..... would be so difficult a concept to grasp for the audience...
Might want to stop making excuses for such garbage we are seeing from hollywood and maybe while you are at it stop thinking the average audience are stupid morons that would be "confused" about something so simple.
Your excuse is weak and far fetched. You almost sound like a tv show writer taking personal offense or something...
Maybe you need to listen to yourself instead?
Sorry it just seemed like you were one of the legions of a particular type of person who was beside themselves with the idea that female dwarves didn’t have beards.
don’t think the average audience is a moron I think they will have think it odd.
Heck I think it’s odd and I’ve done fantasy games for years.
And do female dwarves in folklore actually have beards?
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Well in most lore I have read its a running joke that you cant tell the female dwarves from the males!
I watch movies for escapism, same reason i read books.
As such I like my movies and book to respect the lore as much as possible and while I don't think it a super big big deal the beardless female dwarf I do feel it's a bit of a slippery slope.
That said sorry if it seemed like I was making more out of this than I intended, it really was just meant as a counter point of I don't think the reason no beards was due to audience reactions and was maybe instead just a bad choice.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Well in most lore I have read its a running joke that you cant tell the female dwarves from the males!
I watch movies for escapism, same reason i read books.
As such I like my movies and book to respect the lore as much as possible and while I don't think it a super big big deal the beardless female dwarf I do feel it's a bit of a slippery slope.
That said sorry if it seemed like I was making more out of this than I intended, it really was just meant as a counter point of I don't think the reason no beards was due to audience reactions and was maybe instead just a bad choice.
Honestly I think it’s Fantasy book lore. I don’t recall any female dwarves in any folklore I’ve read.
Maybe for Tolkien that’s the joke?
In any case I just think there are two many people involved in these things that it’s a wonder they get made at all let alone stick strictly to the source material!
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Well in most lore I have read its a running joke that you cant tell the female dwarves from the males!
I watch movies for escapism, same reason i read books.
As such I like my movies and book to respect the lore as much as possible and while I don't think it a super big big deal the beardless female dwarf I do feel it's a bit of a slippery slope.
That said sorry if it seemed like I was making more out of this than I intended, it really was just meant as a counter point of I don't think the reason no beards was due to audience reactions and was maybe instead just a bad choice.
Honestly I think it’s Fantasy book lore. I don’t recall any female dwarves in any folklore I’ve read.
Maybe for Tolkien that’s the joke?
In any case I just think there are two many people involved in these things that it’s a wonder they get made at all let alone stick strictly to the source material!
Well female dwarves are not shown or mentioned much in folklore and lots of lore today somewhat stems from Tolkien but like how magic systems work it also depends on settings as some places like to make their lore slightly different.
I agree there seems to be far too many chiefs running the show these days and that maybe makes things difficult.
I just feel that if you are gonna spend cash to be allowed to use an IP in all its greatness then it should be cause you like or enjoy that IP and want to tell it's story and even make new one. I just don't see why the need to insert things that fly drastically against the lore itself. Not talking about the beard here btw but with how thing are lately keeping beards on female dwarves might have been a nice touch IMO.
I feel lots of things are changed just to cause an uproar and I think they should instead be going for brownie points with the fans?
Take elves for example in many books or lore they, as a race, started out really powerful but as time went on lost power and became more human like, I am thinking about lore here were they were known as fae before becoming elves. In others they are just another race amongst many.
In the end if you buy access to an IP it should be to make the fans of that IP happy AND possibly introduce new fans to the IP, not spit in it's face and then say to the fans welp I didn't make this for you cause you are all "insert XYZ".
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Rings of power isn’t great but it can be fun if one approaches the show with the idea of “inspired by.”
But unless you get a die hard Tolkien scholar with oodles of money and final say then this is about what you will get.
So, it can be done, yet we must accept mediocrity because of reasons. In other words, the show is a bad adaptation, and far from what would actually be possible to make. But it isn't because, despite having Amazon's deep pockets at their disposal (the oodles of money), the creators of the show didn't want to make a proper adaptation. Not perfect, just as best as possible (like LOTR was). But they didn't care about the original, and they wanted to make it their own, as they basically said it themselves. So this was the end result.
In short, people disliking this show are right: it's an insult to the original source, and there's no valid reason for what they've done other than activism and mediocrity, while trying to get away with that by riding on the back of the success of others. Knowing that can, in fact, take the fun away from anything.
That aside, and with all due respect, I think that some people are trying too hard to find excuses to like the show. You can see it here with many of the posts basically stating that it was a slog and it had a lot of weird or bad stuff, but they endured (key word) it because there were a couple of good things. Personally, my time is valuable enough to not want to suffer through something unfun just because "maybe" it will get better later. Either you get my interest from the beginning or soon after, or you lose me as a viewer/customer. And it seems that a lot of people agree with this sentiment, judging by how every online user score for the show is below the 5/10.
Like I said, it requires someone with a reverence for the material and money and final say.
And also, as I said, even that might not be enough. I think Peter Jackson’s movies are great despite some questionable decisions and there are people who despise them.
”In short “ these movies and shows are for the people who might appreciate them. For those who want completely faithful adaptations you’r Going to have to do them yourselves.
good luck
"In short" what we're saying is that the show is not good because the creators didn't want it to be good, and not because they couldn't make it so. As I said, accepting mediocrity just because of reasons is a no-no from me, and apparently also from the vast majority of the audience (as seen in the ratings, something that didn't happen with LOTR despite a few not liking it). As such, people like me chose to not watch the show, and many of those that watched it didn't have a great time while doing so. That's what I'm saying. We don't need to go as far as making a "good version" ourselves. Our end here is to just consume their product if we want, and our right is to respectfully voice our criticism when we don't like something. It's not our job to do theirs.
Anyway, arguing that it is "for the people that might appreciate it" is like saying that Concord is a game made for such same people, while avoiding the fact that it fails as a hero shooter. It's the same here, the show fails as an acceptable adaptation of the source material. In both cases it's on purpose, which is why people dislike them even more. Moreover, and as I said, even many of those that actually watched the show didn't quite enjoy most of it. So, we'll see how successful season 2 will be, since the ratings so far are not looking impressive (mixed, pretty much).
In the end, everyone can do whatever they want. But if you're trying to sell something, you can't be immune to valid criticism and consequences when the quality is not up to par in any front.
In the end, everyone can do whatever they want. But if you're trying to sell something, you can't be immune to valid criticism and consequences when the quality is not up to par in any front.
I have to agree with this.
For example the acolyte failed and got canned but the running theme now apparently is cause us the fans of Star wars are just plain bigoted racists.....lol
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
In the end, everyone can do whatever they want. But if you're trying to sell something, you can't be immune to valid criticism and consequences when the quality is not up to par in any front.
I have to agree with this.
For example the acolyte failed and got canned but the running theme now apparently is cause us the fans of Star wars are just plain bigoted racists.....lol
That's one reason people discuss but not the only one. But this is the problem:
When Star Wars fanbois attack actors because of their skin color, sexual orientation, or whatever else they object too (just like in Tolkien with certain skin colors, etc...), those arguments dominant the conversation. And sure those people are a minority of the whole who dislike something. The Acolyte had plot holes the size of the Sarlacc pit but we cannot have a discourse about those issues because people who hold other arguments tend to dominate and distract the conversation. Just look at this thread and others in these forums that bring "woke" into the argument every single time.
The Acolyte did not fail because of the personal lives of the actors or the decision to employee those actors. It failed because, like much of the Star Wars content recently, its mid at best.
Not everyone likes everything. I love the Rings of Power and I am thankful to get new Middle Earth content. Its not perfect and I enjoy discussing those points related to the lore, acting, scenes, etc... I have seen episodes of 4-6 of Star Wars over a combined 100 times. I wrote Star Wars fan fiction at 10 years old in the 1980s. I took a class on Star Wars in college (and LOTR too). I am a huge fan and I would love to discuss something like the reasons why The Acolyte failed without persons attacking the things I have mentioned. The actual debate is much better.
Comments
These works are inspiring and that’s how I look at any movie, show or game “inspired by Lord of the Rings.”
and some do much better than others.
absolutely loved the movies, warts and all. And I absolutely loved them better than the books which, while having amazing world building, were a bit dry for me when I read them in high school.
But there are people who despise the movies and that’s fair.
Then again having seen some of the previous attempts at adapting the stories they’re genius.
Rings of power isn’t great but it can be fun if one approaches the show with the idea of “inspired by.”
But unless you get a die hard Tolkien scholar with oodles of money and final say then this is about what you will get.
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No, because you can discern between good adaptions and new material and the bad. But I am with you up to a point, we can go too far and expect a level of authenticity which is just not possible.
Just on the films, the Lotro films and the cartoon were great, the Hobbit films were not, you can discern between the two, you can give creative license and still hold true to the original.
Now posit this, let's say that Amazon had decided to redo Lotr with a modern day setting, the Greek myths have had that so why not Lotr? Here I (and I assume all of us) would expect far less authenticity, we would expect themes and interesting takes on characters but that's about it. On the other hand if you set an adaptation in the background of the original works you have to hold yourself to a far higher standard.
It seems the second series of RoP is taking that standard more seriously than the first and any Tolkein fan appreciates that. And as a fan I still hope they can turn the series into a stellar success and now there is a chink of hope for that.
What has deep lore if Middle-Earth is shallow? Honestly curious, the lore of Middle-Earth feels like a whole course of study.
I get that things don't perfectly translate from the page to the screen and thus some changes need to be made. But I look at GoT and how awesome the first few seasons were, but then as they diverged further from the page it got worse and worse. There is a reason people like the source material, and every change risks destroying or at least diluting that.
People will say to just forget the books and try to enjoy the shows on their own, but it's pretty freaking hard to do if you actually like the source material. Because you can see the destruction of something you love. Often these changes undercut the whole point of the books. Some of the WoT changes are done in a way that reflects that the "showrunners" simply do not understand the source material, at all. Despite claims of beings huge fans. Same with The Witcher actually.
I think adaptations need to take a cue from the medical field when making changes. First, Do No Harm. And be as minimally invasive as possible. Millions of people love the original for a reason. It's the peak of hubris to believe that you are making a show BETTER by making changes to the original.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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In short, people disliking this show are right: it's an insult to the original source, and there's no valid reason for what they've done other than activism and mediocrity, while trying to get away with that by riding on the back of the success of others. Knowing that can, in fact, take the fun away from anything.
That aside, and with all due respect, I think that some people are trying too hard to find excuses to like the show. You can see it here with many of the posts basically stating that it was a slog and it had a lot of weird or bad stuff, but they endured (key word) it because there were a couple of good things. Personally, my time is valuable enough to not want to suffer through something unfun just because "maybe" it will get better later. Either you get my interest from the beginning or soon after, or you lose me as a viewer/customer. And it seems that a lot of people agree with this sentiment, judging by how every online user score for the show is below the 5/10.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
There Is Always Hope!
And also, as I said, even that might not be enough. I think Peter Jackson’s movies are great despite some questionable decisions and there are people who despise them.
”In short “ these movies and shows are for the people who might appreciate them. For those who want completely faithful adaptations you’r Going to have to do them yourselves.
good luck
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
listen to yourself.
Not what I was referring to.
The average non die hard fan or non-Uber dork will still think “why?”
No one is going to like that except for those understanding fans and those keeping score.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
don’t think the average audience is a moron I think they will have think it odd.
Heck I think it’s odd and I’ve done fantasy games for years.
And do female dwarves in folklore actually have beards?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Maybe for Tolkien that’s the joke?
In any case I just think there are two many people involved in these things that it’s a wonder they get made at all let alone stick strictly to the source material!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Anyway, arguing that it is "for the people that might appreciate it" is like saying that Concord is a game made for such same people, while avoiding the fact that it fails as a hero shooter. It's the same here, the show fails as an acceptable adaptation of the source material. In both cases it's on purpose, which is why people dislike them even more. Moreover, and as I said, even many of those that actually watched the show didn't quite enjoy most of it. So, we'll see how successful season 2 will be, since the ratings so far are not looking impressive (mixed, pretty much).
In the end, everyone can do whatever they want. But if you're trying to sell something, you can't be immune to valid criticism and consequences when the quality is not up to par in any front.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
When Star Wars fanbois attack actors because of their skin color, sexual orientation, or whatever else they object too (just like in Tolkien with certain skin colors, etc...), those arguments dominant the conversation. And sure those people are a minority of the whole who dislike something. The Acolyte had plot holes the size of the Sarlacc pit but we cannot have a discourse about those issues because people who hold other arguments tend to dominate and distract the conversation. Just look at this thread and others in these forums that bring "woke" into the argument every single time.
The Acolyte did not fail because of the personal lives of the actors or the decision to employee those actors. It failed because, like much of the Star Wars content recently, its mid at best.
Not everyone likes everything. I love the Rings of Power and I am thankful to get new Middle Earth content. Its not perfect and I enjoy discussing those points related to the lore, acting, scenes, etc... I have seen episodes of 4-6 of Star Wars over a combined 100 times. I wrote Star Wars fan fiction at 10 years old in the 1980s. I took a class on Star Wars in college (and LOTR too). I am a huge fan and I would love to discuss something like the reasons why The Acolyte failed without persons attacking the things I have mentioned. The actual debate is much better.