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General: Editorial: When an MMO Becomes Too Much
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
Garrett Fuller pens his latest opinion piece as he asks "when does an MMORPG become too much?" Fuller recounts his MMORPG journey and looks at this burning issue.
;) Many of the readers on this Web Site have been playing MMOs for several years now. From the dawn of Ultima Online through the success of World of Warcraft, we are almost reaching the ten year point in the MMO history of gaming. The next generation of MMOs is offering a lot of options to players; they are also offering a lot of promises. In this editorial I want to try to find out when you finally reach burn out on a game. I definitely am an older player when it comes to video games. I have seen it all, from Atari 2600s Adventure to The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, I have played many RPGs. I played my first D&D character at age seven, he was a dwarf fighter. At thirty-three, how many more dwarf fighters do you think I really want to play? None! Variety in games is what many players I know are always looking for. It is that variety that drives us to new ideas in game play. MMOs are always under fire for being very linear and boring. That style of game eventually leads to burn out. How long can you play your Night Elf Hunter until you are sick of him/her? My point with this editorial is to try to find out when players finally reach burn out on a game. |
You can read more here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
No longer visiting MMORPG.com.
My apologies.
Link fixed.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
*edit* nm, they relinked it, removing my link
So I moved on to WoW. Practically all my co-workers and friends were (and still are) playing WoW, and loving it. I had a lot of fun too, for the first month or so. Then I started getting frustrated that I needed to spend at least an hour or two a night leveling up to keep pace with my friends, and the realization that the grind only got worse at higher levels made me stop and think about whether I really wanted to play this game any more.
So I cancelled that account and moved on to EVE Online. I found it to be a lot of fun, with a good community, epic storyline, and the feeling that my actions mattered, or at least could matter. But getting rejected from an RP corporation I tried to join made me realize that while I liked my own character, I really wasn't interested in interacting with other players. I realized that I'd be just as happy playing a deep, single-player RPG where I could form an attachment to my character as I was playing EVE, WoW, or SWG.
I'm not currently playing any MMOs. In the two months since I quit I've developed a new habit of getting long-delayed household projects done (I'm 26 year old professional with a wife and son, so this is a good thing for happy RL), and started and finished playing three different single player games. Some of the MMOs on the horizon look interesting to me (primarily Tabula Rosa, Stargate, and Star Trek), but there's really not anything that's currently released that really makes me want to give up ten hours a week and go back to endless character grinding.
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When I go, I want to leave a crater, not lie in one.
Former Matrix: Online dev. Been there, done that.
The easiest way imho for these game studios to provide content that is always changing is to make pvp a world event that actually effects the outcome of the game.
Player A fights Mob A the outcome is pretty much fixed.
Player A fights Player B it's a test of strategy and skill - maybe he has friends waiting you didn't know about... or you didn't know he was really a warrior because he was wearing a robe at the beginning of the fight.
Now, you can play kiddie games like capture the flag (like wow) but I did that in grade school.
Consider, if you will, being able to knife a guy in the back and totally humiliate him. That keeps you going for at least a week while you brag. If I did that in kindergarten I would have been carted away - my point being - I do not want to play kiddie games.
When I get to max level I usually look for players to test my skills against. Raiding gets old... eventually your guild will no longer do a certain instance because they've farmed it. My guild on wow stopped doing MC - they had no reason to go anymore with their tier 2. I got my char to the rank of commander - but it's worthless... lol you get rank - you get gear! That game is all one loot grind fest even in PVP. When I think WoW I think "disgusted" and "affront to a player's intelligence".
I'm playing DAoC again at the moment on classic. I really think if any new mmo coming out wants people to stay with "time sinks" (the SWG dev that said that should be taken on the noob school bus - the short one) they should instead push them into other player's faces so it's entertaining.
I stay in the game to pwn noobs. I don't stay in the game to farm the sword of uberness - except maybe when I'm bored.
Hello, I'm FEMALE and 24 years old. I've been playing MMOs since Ultima but DAOC is my poison of choice.
Currently playing: Eve, DAOC, Warhammer
Games I've beaten: AC, AO, CoH, DAOC, D&D, EQ, EQ2, FFXI, FlyFF, GW, Horizons, L2, Ryzom, Shadowbane, SpaceCowboy, SWG, UO, WoW
Stay away from: Eudemons Online, DNL, and Roma Victor
Very well written. I too have the same exact feelings. Just canciled my EQ2 account today after three months of play. Very good game by the way. But after level 30 on Mistmore and never grouped I felt... whats the point?I am 53 years old and was one of the beta testers for Meridian59. (hence my email has been the same since 1993 kram59@hotmail Have pretty much played them all, had 6 level 50's in Camelot. Had level 60 priest in WoW. (Came to the same conclusion as auther) So I am beginning to think maybe it's me. Online gaming burn out? Very good food for thought here. I too have no answers. They do need to make a game that is balenced in every sense. Economy needs to be such as there is only so much money allowed in whole server and no botting, no tweeking, no power leveling. (Of which I've done it all
) I don/t have the anwers, only hope someone out there does 
)
King of the world
What do I want:
1. Deep character creation like CoV and CoH
2. Storyline
3. Great community
4. Intricate quests (not just kill this or that, puzzles, surprises...a lot like DDO)
5. Deep character development (physical attribute, class skills, tons of spells and abilities, etc.)
- AC 1 Did this pretty well.
6. Different weapon/elements for different foes. (slashing vs piercing vs crushing / fire vs cold, etc.)
- Having to know/find a creature's weakness/vulnerabilities.
7. Plugable items
8. Unique items
9. Environment affects play.
- i.e. - swamp area slows movement, cover, higher ground gives bonus', etc.
That's a quick list off the top of my head. I guess I want it all...hehe. Enough from me.
Good article and like many I'm facing MMO burnout.
I don't think PvP however is the answer to everything. PvP is a niche market, a good niche market but it doesn't appeal to many of the traditional MMO players. Myself I'm kind of a casual PvPer, I can take it or leave it. With most of the current incarnations of PvP I'd rather leave it I admit.
Also, too many of the games try to cater to the smaller hardcore market than the larger casual market (or better yet, both). The hardcore market is good for publicity, but its the larger casual market which makes subscriptions come in and pay for the game.
I think the solution lies in developers remembering what many original MMOs were supposed to be about. Not online games so much as persistent virtual worlds. WoW is an online game, but there is nothing about it which is a persistent world because the world doesn't change while you're offline. DaoC has this with frontiers and I think the next generation of successful MMOs will take it further. I also think Sci-Fi will take off more as a setting when people get tired of rehashed fantasy settings.
The big impediment is the follow-the-flock mentality of developers and the horrible implementations the more maverick companies have taken.
They should immerse the player in the storyline. mmoRPG means role playing games yet hardly any game manages to makes you go out of the world and put into the game.
Although some games have some conceptual succes: Planetside has a good component of military role playing game, Eve-online has a high component of politics, starwarsgalaxies HAD a high notion of society (now there aren't enough players from what I read), etc.
Every thing you do in a mmorpg should make you put into the game, that is why are called role playing games. Maybe the hole mmorpg concept is failing cause greedy corporations that see WoW numbers and want some of the share...WoW is not a RPG, is a good game but almost an mmo arcade game.
BTW shame on SOE/LA for what they are doing to the once more RPG MMO on the market, Star Wars Galaxies (neither you won't never get WoW numbers).
One of the answers may be an expanded version of what Saga of Ryzom is doin with their latest expansion that adds player created content. Other than that, the sandbox style game seems to have more long term potential, if someone could just do it right.
Personally, im already burned out on the MMO genre for many of the reasons you mentioned plus the paranoia and lack of trust engendered by SOE's handling of SWG.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
_________________________________
playing:
ww2online: Fader
EVE: Fader Bane
proud member of BKB http://www.bkbhq.com/
Excellent article! I agree completely (unfortunately). I've been of the belief that what the developers primarily need to do is stop thinking of these as "games" and start thinking of them as "worlds", people want a beleivable virtual world to inhabit. It needs to be consistent, it needs to be changeable (crafting, houseing, weather, seasons, whatever it takes to make it immersive and beleivable). Goes without saying people don't want your character to look like everyone else, alot of the up-and-comers seem to have understood this. Better quests, as I understand DDO has, thats certainly going in the right direction. I don't believe that pvp is some kind of major cure-all, alot of people don't like pvp at all. I don't believe the dumbing down trend is good, the most enjoyment I got from one of these games for the longest period of time was old EQ (before the endless expansions, back in the good 'ol days), there is a place for death-penalties, things shouldn't be too easy, I don't want my hand held through every decision.
I've been in the games since the alpha of the original Meridian59, huge number of betas since, played various when they went commercial. I think the class system is basically bad, I understand why developers like them, they're so much easier to deal with then skill-based systems, well tough! People don't want to be pigeon-holed, they want freedom to create a virtual identity thats individual.
I do have some hope that Vanguard, and Fallen Earth are going to be much more interesting, and immersive then the current offerings.
I think Conan is wise to try out creating a more adult game (and the Conan world is definitely a adult type world, very glad funcom didn't try to make it kid-friendly that would have been just too much)
Oh and you absolutely without question you have to keep the damn money-men out of creative decision making (they don't have any, so for gods sake keep them away from those who do)! If I had a dollar for every game I've seen screwed up because of the damn money-men I'd have enough to create my own title.
I don't disagree with the point of the editorial, but I don't believe an Answer will become apparent without questioning some of the unspoken assumptions being made in it.
To start with:
Key word there: "explore."
Why assume that the content of MMORPGs has to be all about combat and competition and accumulation?
Here's the theory I'm going on these days: people are different. Different people like different things, including gameplay. Some people like competitive gameplay; others prefer cooperative gameplay. Some people like playing in groups with lots of social interaction; others prefer solo play with indirect interaction. Some people enjoy hands-on, adrenalin-pumping action; others prefer more cerebral, exploratory play. Some people like to measure themselves by how many things they can accumulate and how fast they can do it; others care about forming deep and long-lasting relationships.
So if the point is to attract lots of gamers over the long run, how is offering only combat and competition and accumulation supposed to appeal to all these kinds of people?
Richard Bartle has (accurately, I think) described four main kinds of gamers: Killers, Achievers, Explorers, and Socializers. (I have a theory that these are actually gaming-specific subtypes of the four temperaments -- Artisans, Guardians, Rationals, and Idealists -- described by David Keirsey, but that's another thread.) Where MMORPGs are concerned, I think of Achievers as being like locusts. When a new MMORPG comes out, the Achievers swarm to it, devour all content as quickly as possible, complain bitterly when they run out of "end-game" content, and then swarm off to the Next Big Game.
The point being, Achievers aren't the kinds of players who stick around long in MMORPGs. They may hang around if they don't see any Next Big Game, but they'll complain a lot about it. What they don't do is contribute to the long-term community of a game, to the formation and maintenance of long-term bonds between players who like a game and want it to survive. Achievers are utilitarians -- as soon as something better comes along, they're gone.
So why in the world do designers design games almost solely around the Achiever playstyle?
If your players -- who are not all Achievers -- are leaving because they're tired of constantly being told (though the features you give them) that you don't value them, that the only kinds of gameplay that really matter are combat and competition and accumulation, then maybe you need to rethink who you're making these games for.
--Flatfingers
Well Said. But I think you were a little to soft on SWG( they have the largest screw you attatude of any game ever). But all in all your speaking our mind so keep letting them Know. Maybe some day Game companys will listen to thier customers.
I agree with this article whole-heartedly. I too am pushing 40 years of age and have been playing MMO's since their inception. I am so burnt on the entire MMO scene honestly and I think I have given up on most developers as well with the exception of Mythic. I recently returned to DAOC after a hiatus to WOW off/on several times. I was a tester for both games and still acess the tester boards and participate in DAOC. It is the only game that has kept my attention for the long haul, more so than EQ. close to 5 years now and I am back, that says a lot for the game and Mythic. The only reason I left in the first place was total burnout. I had a accident 4 years ago on the job and was house ridden for 3 of them so I gorund DAOC 12+ hours a day. it would burn anyone out.
I look forward to WAR next and I have faith in Mythic and beleive they have got it down. Now don't get me wrong, DAOC has been filled with it's share of issues, but nothing beats it's community and gameplay. There where some great things about WOW that I liked for instance the action oriented attacking system and mobs moving around and such. The quest journal was great too. The graphics just blew for me, I cannot get into the pastel cartoon look. At 60 it is a job and getting to 60 is easily done 90% solo in 3-4 weeks consistently with all types of toons. I still think DAOC has one of the best PvP systems around and even though grinding to get to 50 can be a chore it sure is a lot easier nowadays. I remember the goold old days on Pendragon before character copies and lvl bumps when it was a real server to many of us testers. The best damn gaming community I have ever belonged to and I miss it. Grinding a toon to 50 back then what an absolute achievement!
I was looking forward to Gods and Hereos and was an original forum member there (under a different name) then they had to go and ruin it by making an alliegiance with SOE. I refuse to give SOE anymore of my money to any of their departments. Now VSOH has done the same thing and I was a tester there too until that crap happened. We all thought Brad wanted to get AWAY from SOE, not go back to bed with them, bahh! Everything SOE touches it ruins, at least for the MMO market and online.
I will stay on DAOC until WAR hits us and move on to that and probably play both still. At least I know what I am always getting with Mythic and compared to all the other companies out there, I consider them one of the best.
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Key word there: "explore."
Why assume that the content of MMORPGs has to be all about combat and competition and accumulation?
Here's the theory I'm going on these days: people are different. Different people like different things, including gameplay. Some people like competitive gameplay; others prefer cooperative gameplay. Some people like playing in groups with lots of social interaction; others prefer solo play with indirect interaction. Some people enjoy hands-on, adrenalin-pumping action; others prefer more cerebral, exploratory play. Some people like to measure themselves by how many things they can accumulate and how fast they can do it; others care about forming deep and long-lasting relationships.
So if the point is to attract lots of gamers over the long run, how is offering only combat and competition and accumulation supposed to appeal to all these kinds of people?
Richard Bartle has (accurately, I think) described four main kinds of gamers: Killers, Achievers, Explorers, and Socializers. (I have a theory that these are actually gaming-specific subtypes of the four temperaments -- Artisans, Guardians, Rationals, and Idealists -- described by David Keirsey, but that's another thread.) Where MMORPGs are concerned, I think of Achievers as being like locusts. When a new MMORPG comes out, the Achievers swarm to it, devour all content as quickly as possible, complain bitterly when they run out of "end-game" content, and then swarm off to the Next Big Game.
The point being, Achievers aren't the kinds of players who stick around long in MMORPGs. They may hang around if they don't see any Next Big Game, but they'll complain a lot about it. What they don't do is contribute to the long-term community of a game, to the formation and maintenance of long-term bonds between players who like a game and want it to survive. Achievers are utilitarians -- as soon as something better comes along, they're gone.
So why in the world do designers design games almost solely around the Achiever playstyle?
If your players -- who are not all Achievers -- are leaving because they're tired of constantly being told (though the features you give them) that you don't value them, that the only kinds of gameplay that really matter are combat and competition and accumulation, then maybe you need to rethink who you're making these games for.
--Flatfingers
Incredibly well said, and dead on accurate in my book. One thing I would add, is that some of us (myself included) have some of all the types mentioned in us. At different times and in different moods I enjoy all of the gamestyles listed and ideally like a game that lets me enjoy any and all of the above without switching from one game to another. A game that encompasses all of these playstyles in a persistent world could keep my interest for quite some time.
I too wonder why games are so geared to the "locusts" who will just migrate to the next big thing instead of the players who will stick with a good game till hell freezes over.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Very well written article and thank you for metioning SWG. Many of us played a bunch of them betaed a bunch and some where recently just went it's all the same. How many times can i kill whatever to get whatever?
The surprise i had was after nge with swg . I realized i detested that "game play may change" so much that it did keep me from jumping into another mmorpg. I do realize not all compaines are like soe, and would change to the extent they did, but since it did happen, just not sure i want to devote that kind of time again to a game.
So if all these new possiblites are coming out now and near future and use the same clone methods then the users will face the same obstacles as before. What kept us playing before the community many times in spite of the game play. If there is no social encouragment or interdependancy, struck within the dynamics of the game play then there is really no reason to play a mmorpg. The question becomes what is that fine balance of solo/group fun or busy activity that will keep subscribers paying/playing? If compaines focus only on thier vision and have no clue of what is considered fun to folks, then again why are they trying to make a mmorpg?
Thanks for the article nicely stated ......
A lot of good points here. I've tried a few MMOs - it would have been more, but I only got Broadband relatively recently.
I tried EQ1. I didn't like it at all (which I know will upset the EQ diehards). 1 week.
Then I played DAoC (from Beta). I enjoyed this a lot (and I still like the graphics the best of any MMO I've played). But the fact was that the mid-level PvP was much more fun than the high-level. And the grind in the last few PvE levels was exceedingly boring. 6 months.
For a while I played NWN. Lots of different worlds meant no boredom as such, but there were other issues (e.g. Worlds disappeared, some questionable practises by some PW hosts). 6 months.
Then I tried EQ2. Repetitve grinding after the first few levels was the real killer with this. How many different coloured Scarecrows does anyone want to kill? 2 months.
Then WoW. This has lots of things to recommend it, the biggest IMO being the ability of fans to "mod" it, allowing an infinitely customisable interface. I enjoyed this immensely, despite the graphics not being particularly to my taste. But the raid grind at level 60 just turned me off completely. 6 months.
Somewhere in there I tried AC2 (on special) but it was like EQ1 for me. I loathed it. 1 week.
Lately I've been playing DDO (just like the editorial) from the start of Beta. I've enjoyed it a lot, but it's moving away from what I enjoy towards another "me too" clone, and I doubt I'll remain too much longer.
I've also been playing some single person games in this period. There was Gothic 2 (a really great game IMO), KoToR, ToEE (heavily into this most faithful of all D&D games and contributed to a lot of the bug fixes), there was Civilization IV (if DDO hadn't come out I'd probably still be playing this). My next game might be HoMM V if nothing else catches my eye.
At the moment I'm not sure if any game can capture my attention for more than 6 months. I'm not an obsessive player, but by then I will have logged 700-800 hours on the game. It would have to be something really special to keep me longer than that.
Recent MMOs have been lacking in many ways. I played Linage 2, DDO, WoW, EvE, and a few others but all lost my intrest after like 3 monthes of play. You may say that I am not one who can keep his attention on the game, wrong. I usally get myself to the end in those games or get to a point where I have to do the same thing over and over again. I have been playing Quake 2 online for over 8 years, I can hold on to a game for a long period of time!
Current MMO way of playing: Look for someone with a quest, talk, accept, go kill X number of creatures, go back, get reward. THIS WAY OF PLAYING IS LAME!
One thing that I think would help MMOs is to get rid of levels. Who needs them? Seriously, all they are is to show how long you've been playing the game. Why can't you just get rid of them all together? IRL how many of you are level 60? There are different ways to restrict people from getting into dungons or to powerful mobs. Game designers can instead have people advance through jobs (where if they did well with one job, they can maybe get another from the same person), which will give access to better and harder areas.
PvP is hard with the MMOs out there right now, since you have to play in the PvE for a long time to get the good equipment in order to compete. Along with obtaining higher levels which I already explained. Both Guild Wars and EvE are probably the closest you can get to have a somewhat even playing field in PvP. They did that by limiting the levels and skills that you can get in PvE.
If I was someone who was to design a MMO right now, I'd make it based more on a persons skill rather then how long they've been playing (levels) and their uber gear. I'd also make it less linear. How I'd do that would be to give the gamer the choice towards the begining of the game, let them choose a side, have very long storylines for what quest lines they want to persue and let them continue branching off to where ever they'd like their game to go. Doing this may lead to people only going down one story line, since everyone else is doing it (and they'd want to stay with friends), but that would at least allow for good replay. Let them try another path and see where it takes them. I hate how everyone is doing the same thing as everyone else. Killing the same mobs, doing the same quests, etc. How does that make me unique?
GM sponsered events, I don't understand why there aren't more of these. At LEAST one a month would go a long way to making the game more exciting. I wouldn't think it would be that hard, just plan your world around having these. Get a group that solely works on planning these, have them work close with the people that create the story so the events fit in with what is going on.
I'd also have a lot of the PvP elements tha FPS have had. Various CTF, FFA, Team battles, Tag games, King of the hill, jail break, castle sieges, large clan battles, etc. And I'd make these available at the begining of the game. I hate that you can't get involved in a big feature of a game until you baiscly beat the game (even though people would say that a MMO has no end).
And the last thing (that I can think of right now) I would add to mini games to the main MMO. I played FFX and loved playing Blitzball. It didn't really have anything to do with the main story but it was fun and a way for me to get away from the regular grind. Who says that a MMO can't have another genre inside of the main idea of the game?
But the reason why we wont see anything like this is because the designers found something that people will pay for. Why fix something that isn't broke in their minds?
Dig deeper then just the 3 screenshots and you will find a mmorpg wet dream! WOW!!!
I say Beta in 2 years.