Storefronts Can't Lie About You 'Buying' Digital Goods, Per New Californian Bill | MMORPG.com

System · September 28

Storefronts Can't Lie About You 'Buying' Digital Goods, Per New Californian Bill | MMORPG.com

A bill states that any company selling products in the state of California must directly, clearly, and conspicuously state if a "license" to a digital product is being purchased.

Read the full story here

Scot · September 28

A good step but it could take a decade to see this world wide. Also they don't seem to be looking at NFT's yet which are just as bad.

Angrakhan · September 28

All that this bill means is Californians are going to own a lot of licenses. Nothing about this bill requires software companies to change their business model, just their verbiage. My expectation is that verbiage is the only thing that is going to change.

kitarad · September 28

So sellers will say you don't own the game. You have a license and we can take it away any time. How many people will actually read it and care about those qualifications or will they scroll and click agree.

Then scream and shout later when they lose the game. Will it make any difference. We go to so many sites do we all actually read everything or do we just click and say agree.

I doubt this will change anything substantively except to make it easier for them to take things away after you have paid for them. Sounds like a way to screw us over.

BrotherMaynard · September 28

kitarad said:

So sellers will say you don't own the game. You have a license and we can take it away any time. How many people will actually read it and care about those qualifications or will they scroll and click agree.

Then scream and shout later when they lose the game. Will it make any difference. We go to so many sites do we all actually read everything or do we just click and say agree.

I doubt this will change anything substantively except to make it easier for them to take things away after you have paid for them. Sounds like a way to screw us over.

They already say that in various ToS and EULAs. The difference here - as far as I understand from this article - is that now they will be obliged to disclose it in all their communication, including box art, store fronts, ads, 'buy now' buttons conspicuously plastered all over a website, etc.

So if a game is licensed, a publisher will no longer be able to slap a giant "click here to buy" banner across a website. "Click here to license" just does not look so catchy, does it? I know, I know, we will see all kinds of creative writing now, but still...

In a way it's similar to the time tobacco companies were forced to start showing warnings on cigarette packaging. The unhealthy effects were known even before that, the info was available in various studies and reports - but nobody read those. It's more about public perception than direct restrictions or punishment.

Will it achieve much? Who knows. But if their goal is a soft launch of a longer-term revision of what is going on in the digital space, this is not a bad start. A smart politician spreading this strategically over a longer period - it could also be a nice little platform for repeated re-election, if it gains traction. As I've been saying for ages, the whole concept of "licensing" consumer digital products has been one of the biggest scams in commerce, going on for close to half a century now.

Quizzical · September 28

"Plainly, the seller must include a “clear and conspicuous statement” that “buying or purchasing the digital good is a license,” separate from any other terms and conditions."

The main real-world effect of this is that you'll have to scroll down and click "I agree" one extra time before you get access to the game.

Neoyoshi · September 28

I wonder if this is related to that new Steam SSA agreement we all had to sign recently.

But yeah i do agree The Crew could have really used something like that.

Though i do remember The Crew 2 was practically given away for free at one point. (got my copy for 5 bucks)

Kyleran · September 28

Neoyoshi said:

I wonder if this is related to that new Steam SSA agreement we all had to sign recently.

But yeah i do agree The Crew could have really used something like that. Though i do remember The Crew 2 was practically given away for free at one point. (got my copy for 5 bucks)

That was a strange one, Steam went in a direction opposite to most other game developers and publishers.

It requires any disputes to be brought before the courts rather than via traditiinal binding arbitration.

Waiting see what people make of that decision.

Asm0deus · September 28

I think this is a good thing if just to get the them stop saying you "buy" games. Buying implies you own something like when you "buy" a PC or "buy" a watch..

You own it so it's your to do with as you please. You can let your wife/son/friend use your watch, you can let your friends borrow your game and play it at least that was what "buying" something meant back in the day even for video game back when they were still on cd/dvdcatridges etc. You could even resell those cartridges etc.

When we originally switch to non physical mediums it was still the same thing however that has shifted over time to you not "owning" the game even though you "bought" the game.

Clearly they want ot keep using the term "BUY" Now when that not actually what you are doing and the word is inappropriate even though they hide it in legalese in term and tos etc etc.

I feel it's a subtle shift in your way of thinking to get people used to "buying" stuff but not "owning" it..and instead telling them that buying it doesn't actually mean buying it and owning it anymore instead it means, like ubisoft said. "

You don’t own your games anymore – ‘get comfortable with it’".

It's like they want to charge a high priced premium for you to "buy" a game with the implication you then own it for marketing purposes when really they want to offer you a service OR a license to use with conditions that can be changed when ever..

They don't want to switch lingo for good reasons mostly as they know people will feel paying for a license that can be revoked w/e wont be perceived as well or perhaps worth as much as "buying" a game.

They want to sell their cake and eat it to.

Dunno but I think they SHOULD be forced to use the proper lingo if we are no longer "buying" games and no longer own that copy and instead are renting or paying for licenses with conditions that can be changed and even revoked w/e.

Dunno but basic communication should be truthful and accurate when communicating with each other and especially in legal purchases no? I mean how can we do that with inaccurate lingo?

Slapshot1188 · September 29

Scot said:

A good step but it could take a decade to see this world wide. Also they don't seem to be looking at NFT's yet which are just as bad.

Dunno.

First thing that came to mind is the BUY NOW button you normally click on a website. This will restrict that. Buy A License To Use This Game probably won’t be as appealing. And websites will not be California specific. And it won’t just be the game company but any resellers.

Will be interesting to see.

caalem · September 29

>If a user can perpetually download it and keep it offline, it's considered a proper product purchase.

…huh?
no. what.
did they have interns write this?

you don't own a product just because you have a copy of it on your storage device, it's still just a license!
now even the government is confusing people…

Angrakhan · September 29

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";
if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";
let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

[Deleted User] · September 29

The user and all related content has been deleted.

KnightFalz · September 29

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";

if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";

let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

Essentially purchasers must be told yet another time that all they are buying is a license to play the game in the hope it will be less ignored that the current declaration it is so.

There is no actual change otherwise to things as they are.

BrotherMaynard · September 29

Kyleran said:

Neoyoshi said:

I wonder if this is related to that new Steam SSA agreement we all had to sign recently.

But yeah i do agree The Crew could have really used something like that. Though i do remember The Crew 2 was practically given away for free at one point. (got my copy for 5 bucks)

That was a strange one, Steam went in a direction opposite to most other game developers and publishers.

It requires any disputes to be brought before the courts rather than via traditiinal binding arbitration.

Waiting see what people make of that decision.

That has nothing to do with this latest news, though. It is related to the trend started some 4-5 years ago, with lawyers weaponising these arbitration clauses against the big companies themselves.

You can read a summary here, specifically about this SSA update - which, btw, was only rolled out in the US. Or you can watch the video below for a lawyer's explanation of the whole concept. I posted it in this forum about 2-3 years ago when we were discussing the Chronicles of Elyria lawsuit, but it's an excellent video and it doesn't hurt to explain again why big companies are increasingly scared of arbitrations.

Slapshot1188 · September 29

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";
if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";
let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Vrika · September 29

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";
if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";
let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Websites can determine your estimated location based on your IP address.

It's not perfect, but it doesn't need to be. Mistakes aren't illegal. As long as the store makes reasonable effort to follow Californian law that's enough for the officials.

Angrakhan · September 29

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";

if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";

let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Go to this website and see for yourself. I bet you lunch it shows you what state you're in. I bet it tells you what city you're in as well. Maybe go do a basic Google search before popping off your little "mystical system" comment. You're not the smartest person in the room.

https://nordvpn.com/ip-lookup/

olepi · September 29

Angrakhan said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";

if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";

let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Go to this website and see for yourself. I bet you lunch it shows you what state you're in. I bet it tells you what city you're in as well. Maybe go do a basic Google search before popping off your little "mystical system" comment. You're not the smartest person in the room.

https://nordvpn.com/ip-lookup/

You owe me lunch, I like Mexican food. The website got the city and state both wrong. I am using Starlink, all websites think I'm in the wrong state.

edit: oh dear, I switched to my landline IP provider and it got the city and state wrong too. A different one than Starlink says. Do I get 2 lunches now?

As for the topic at hand, it reminds me of the class action lawsuit against John Deere for locking the software on their tractors so that people who "buy" them can't fix them anymore.

https://www.wisfarmer.com/story/news/2022/02/23/deere-co-faces-mounting-legal-troubles-antitrust-lawsuits/6896930001/

John Deere lost that lawsuit. When you buy a tractor from them, you own the software too and can fix it yourself.

Slapshot1188 · September 29

Angrakhan said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";

if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";

let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Go to this website and see for yourself. I bet you lunch it shows you what state you're in. I bet it tells you what city you're in as well. Maybe go do a basic Google search before popping off your little "mystical system" comment. You're not the smartest person in the room.

https://nordvpn.com/ip-lookup/

Sure. But I am ALSO allowed to use a VPN right? Which is the whole point of the website you linked. Many people use these... million of people actually. Not for any nefarious reason.

Talk about not being the "smartest person in the room''...

Lets all come back to this in a year and see what reality is. Bookmark this one.

Slapshot1188 · September 29

olepi said:

Angrakhan said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";

if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";

let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Go to this website and see for yourself. I bet you lunch it shows you what state you're in. I bet it tells you what city you're in as well. Maybe go do a basic Google search before popping off your little "mystical system" comment. You're not the smartest person in the room.

https://nordvpn.com/ip-lookup/

You owe me lunch, I like Mexican food. The website got the city and state both wrong. I am using Starlink, all websites think I'm in the wrong state.

edit: oh dear, I switched to my landline IP provider and it got the city and state wrong too. A different one than Starlink says. Do I get 2 lunches now?

As for the topic at hand, it reminds me of the class action lawsuit against John Deere for locking the software on their tractors so that people who "buy" them can't fix them anymore.

https://www.wisfarmer.com/story/news/2022/02/23/deere-co-faces-mounting-legal-troubles-antitrust-lawsuits/6896930001/

John Deere lost that lawsuit. When you buy a tractor from them, you own the software too and can fix it yourself.

That's awesome.

Just wanted to point that out in text.

olepi · September 29

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";

if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";

let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Go to this website and see for yourself. I bet you lunch it shows you what state you're in. I bet it tells you what city you're in as well. Maybe go do a basic Google search before popping off your little "mystical system" comment. You're not the smartest person in the room.

https://nordvpn.com/ip-lookup/

Sure. But I am ALSO allowed to use a VPN right? Which is the whole point of the website you linked. Many people use these... million of people actually. Not for any nefarious reason.

Talk about not being the "smartest person in the room''...

Lets all come back to this in a year and see what reality is. Bookmark this one.

Just for the record, I am not using a VPN. There is also this: IP address spoofing - Wikipedia

Quizzical · September 29

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";
if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";
let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Depending on how onerous it is to comply, they might just follow the California rule everywhere, without caring where you are. That's why some products say that they are known to the state of California to cause cancer, even if they don't actually cause cancer and you're buying it somewhere else that is not near California.

Slapshot1188 · September 29

Quizzical said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Angrakhan said:

For all of you thinking this is some huge win for the consumer let me write a little pseudo code for you:

let caliLabel ="";
if(isIPAdressInCalifornia) caliLabel ="license";
let buyNowButtonLabel = "buy " + caliLabel + " now";

There's your big win for the consumer.

And how does this mystical system know if the viewer is in California? Self verification? Is everyone going to have to self declare their residency prior to using any store or viewing any ad? So the 10 year old can legally be accountable for declaring their residency?

Depending on how onerous it is to comply, they might just follow the California rule everywhere, without caring where you are. That's why some products say that they are known to the state of California to cause cancer, even if they don't actually cause cancer and you're buying it somewhere else that is not near California.

Yup. This is what I think is the most likely result.

Howdy, Stranger!

Storefronts Can't Lie About You 'Buying' Digital Goods, Per New Californian Bill | MMORPG.com

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

You don’t own your games anymore – ‘get comfortable with it’".

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Storefronts Can't Lie About You 'Buying' Digital Goods, Per New Californian Bill | MMORPG.com

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

You don’t own your games anymore – ‘get comfortable with it’".