I remember when LoTRO came out it had forced, or required, grouping. You literally couldn't continue to play the game unless you grouped up to do certain dungeons (Great Barrow). If you didn't group you couldn't enter the dungeon and that means you cannot play any more of the main quest story. There was a lot of pushback at this and they changed it so you could do those tasks solo.
See, what I remember from early LotRO is that the forced grouping was a big reason why LotRO ended up with the best community I've ever been a part of.
From like level 3 onwards, there was a lot of group content. The game set it's expectations on players right from the get go, and trained it's players to work together. Early group content was easy, and got progressively harder throughout the game. Combined with highly differentiated combat roles and a deep combat system, we were taught the importance of working together. Never before or since have I been part of a community with such a strong PUG scene.
But, of course, the game was built on vertical progression, so even after just 3 months after launch it started becoming very hard to find groups because most of us were at endgame, and so all that group content became an impassable gate (i remember having to grind mobs to level from 47-50 on my first alt because i couldnt find groups at that time). Hence Turbine had to spend a lot of time and money revamping the original leveling content, making it mostly solo or adding alternative leveling routes to avoid the group content.
They learnt their lesson, and every expansion largely avoided group content during the leveling process. They didn't want to waste money on revamps again.
The positive was this made the game much more accessible and easy for the solo player as well as the late-to-the-party players. The knockon effect was a diminishing in the community. New players were no longer being trained to work together, it wasn't standard practice anymore. They didn't learn how to play their classes in groups, which meant they missed out on half the fun of their class and nearly all the depth, resulting in a lot of complaints about boring gameplay.
I have played Lotro for i gues 17 years now it still has the best grouping community I have ever experienced. They have a lot for all kinds of group sizes also which i think is the best solution. My wife and I can duo tons of things together but we can also get 3 mans and 6 mans and 12 mans its great. As we have gotten older we just dont have the time to que up for the rift every friday night so options are great. I do remember needing 6 mans for the book quests that could be painful sometimes especially if someone like the tank or healer needs to go afk or cant make it.
Someone else said the youtube esports crowd ruined it for them I tried wow and everyone their was rush to the end and you better know the way it was shocking after lotro.
I think requiring a group to do content is tough but if thats the gamed you want stick to your guns and live with a smaller base games dont have to be everything to everyone.
There is no such thing as forced grouping btw, because if there was we would also have "forced soloing" as the vast majority of MMO content nowadays is made for solo players.
Actually, New World did that in the sense that there was a low-level quest you couldn't complete (couldn't even enter the dungeon) without a group.
I presume you did not have to do that quest to progress to the next level though so you were not "forced" to group.
It cannot be skipped as it is a main story quest with content locked behind completing it. If it was an optional side quest that could be skipped without impact otherwise than it wouldn't have been a bother.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
It cannot be skipped as it is a main story quest with content locked behind completing it. If it was an optional side quest that could be skipped without impact otherwise than it wouldn't have been a bother.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
That was a poor decision but we have seen AGS make a lot of poor decisions, indeed we have seen as many of those sorts of complaints (ones about that sort of easily avoidable misstep or the likes of server transfers) as we have about actual gameplay. I can say in all my years on these forums no studio has been called out on management decisions more than AGS over the same period of time.
It cannot be skipped as it is a main story quest with content locked behind completing it. If it was an optional side quest that could be skipped without impact otherwise than it wouldn't have been a bother.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
That was a poor decision but we have seen AGS make a lot of poor decisions, indeed we have seen as many of those sorts of complaints (ones about that sort of easily avoidable misstep or the likes of server transfers) as we have about actual gameplay. I can say in all my years on these forums no studio has been called out on management decisions more than AGS over the same period of time.
They had a rough go with New World early on that's for sure, not just with bad decisions but technical problems galore. Hopefully those aspects will be forever left behind once the shift to NW:A happens. It would be a welcome benefit from the transition.
It cannot be skipped as it is a main story quest with content locked behind completing it. If it was an optional side quest that could be skipped without impact otherwise than it wouldn't have been a bother.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
That was a poor decision but we have seen AGS make a lot of poor decisions, indeed we have seen as many of those sorts of complaints (ones about that sort of easily avoidable misstep or the likes of server transfers) as we have about actual gameplay. I can say in all my years on these forums no studio has been called out on management decisions more than AGS over the same period of time.
How can you still claim it was a poor management decision when their data clearly showed the forced grouping drove some segment of players from the game.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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It cannot be skipped as it is a main story quest with content locked behind completing it. If it was an optional side quest that could be skipped without impact otherwise than it wouldn't have been a bother.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
That was a poor decision but we have seen AGS make a lot of poor decisions, indeed we have seen as many of those sorts of complaints (ones about that sort of easily avoidable misstep or the likes of server transfers) as we have about actual gameplay. I can say in all my years on these forums no studio has been called out on management decisions more than AGS over the same period of time.
How can you still claim it was a poor management decision when their data clearly showed the forced grouping drove some segment of players from the game.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
But did you realise that you had to group and go "that's it I am of"? Did you try some grouping and find it did not work out? I think it is down to how quickly players realised there would be "forced" grouping and then left. If you were still in the game a few weeks after that I think it has to be down to the other factors.
It cannot be skipped as it is a main story quest with content locked behind completing it. If it was an optional side quest that could be skipped without impact otherwise than it wouldn't have been a bother.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
That was a poor decision but we have seen AGS make a lot of poor decisions, indeed we have seen as many of those sorts of complaints (ones about that sort of easily avoidable misstep or the likes of server transfers) as we have about actual gameplay. I can say in all my years on these forums no studio has been called out on management decisions more than AGS over the same period of time.
How can you still claim it was a poor management decision when their data clearly showed the forced grouping drove some segment of players from the game.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
Stop letting your fear of cooperation define how you interact with MMO's!
The only thing forced grouping forces me to do is find a different game.
But technically you would never be playing a grouping game.
Now, the unfortunate thing (depending on where you stand on the subject) is that a lot of games really don't implement grouping very well. So there really aren't a lot of games that incorporate grouping well or maybe they don't have the population to support it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
How can you still claim it was a poor management decision when their data clearly showed the forced grouping drove some segment of players from the game.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
I will give an alternate hypothesis. How about when a team like ours plays through the early content waiting for the group dungeon content to start, then once we get there, its below expectations?
Bad implementation, required to make keys to dungeon, loot was trash, group system was trash, the combat didnt feel exciting in the group ...
Two of our group left around that time, the rest of us stuck it out to max level just to see if it would get any better, which it didnt.
All cities were owned by PVP'ers. No PVE server at all. Chat was dominated by PVP. So getting PVE groups was not easy.
Pretty much a bad system overall that didnt support grouping, so people that wanted grouping left.
How can you still claim it was a poor management decision when their data clearly showed the forced grouping drove some segment of players from the game.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
I will give an alternate hypothesis. How about when a team like ours plays through the early content waiting for the group dungeon content to start, then once we get there, its below expectations?
Bad implementation, required to make keys to dungeon, loot was trash, group system was trash, the combat didnt feel exciting in the group ...
Two of our group left around that time, the rest of us stuck it out to max level just to see if it would get any better, which it didnt.
All cities were owned by PVP'ers. No PVE server at all. Chat was dominated by PVP. So getting PVE groups was not easy.
Pretty much a bad system overall that didnt support grouping, so people that wanted grouping left.
I am casting my mind back here but I remember a lot more posters going on about the issues of getting keys than problems grouping or the quality of the expeditions.
It cannot be skipped as it is a main story quest with content locked behind completing it. If it was an optional side quest that could be skipped without impact otherwise than it wouldn't have been a bother.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
That was a poor decision but we have seen AGS make a lot of poor decisions, indeed we have seen as many of those sorts of complaints (ones about that sort of easily avoidable misstep or the likes of server transfers) as we have about actual gameplay. I can say in all my years on these forums no studio has been called out on management decisions more than AGS over the same period of time.
How can you still claim it was a poor management decision when their data clearly showed the forced grouping drove some segment of players from the game.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
Stop letting your fear of cooperation define how you interact with MMO's!
I cooperated quite a bit in FO. I built the jail for a town (took several hours). I built armor/weapons for people. I built outposts I let guildmates use.
I didn't have to group to do that.
So again, I like the community, even cooperation, but don't want to need to wait around for 45 minutes for someone else to walk their dog and then run through a highly choreographed dance routine for an "Emblem of Power" that we need 40 of to get gear for everyone.
I like options. So right now, I love that delves are soloable and I love that I can do story mode dungeons with NPCs and see the end of stories in raids with the new mode. But at the same time, I do run LFR and do group when its convenient and I can.
For me, I have 2 kids, 5 cats, a full-time job, married, house to care for, etc... rarely will I have 30 minutes where I am uninterrupted. I do not group because I do not want to be AFK a lot and be a detriment. I dont group, not because I am not a good player, but because I feel like I will interfere negatively with other's gaming.
Back in my DAOC days, I lived at home and was single and I could sit in a dungeon and grind and pull mobs for hours on end. I loved it but now its not possible. I cannot wake up at 3am to run a keep raid.....well, I am awake anyway but thats due to old age.
Grouping is fine but give me options. Most of all do not gate me or lock me out of content unless a I group (in terms of quests and story, I am fine with groups having content I will not see unless I group). I think WOW is on to something now with story mode dungeons, to normals, to heroics. and now to like mythic +10 or whatever. I can make the content what I want and I like that.
I would like to add too that with New World, I hated being forced to do dungeons to see content and advance the story. The issu became that either you keep up with the hardcore players or get left behind. And if you get left behind, you will be damned and cursed if you do not know the fights or its your first time in a dungeon. The New World community is not known for its patience and understanding with new players (but thats a whole other argument).
I'm like you in that I have other things to look after and can't always group without being a drain on the others' enjoyment. I want choice. And I don't want to lose out on content just because of that. Although I accept that a tough dungeon may not be survivable going solo, even if I only intend to scout it out to some degree.
Also, I want choices, not directions. I don't like "group only" and "solo" content design. I want that choice, generally speaking.
Part of what makes CoH so easy to group in is the "sidekicking" or autoleveling that happens in groups. I regularly start and lead teams and I just started a lvl 45 story arc, a bunch of missions tied to a story and are done in sequence.
Anybody of any level can join. If you are higher you get down-leveled to 45, if you are lower you get up-leveled to 44. Teams are 8 people and if I broadcast that I'm doing the Tina McIntyre arc I'll have a full team in about 2 minutes. There is no waiting for the right level or class to join, I'll take a newbie literally at lvl 1, they will be playing at lvl 44 and can still contribute.
How can you still claim it was a poor management decision when their data clearly showed the forced grouping drove some segment of players from the game.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
I will give an alternate hypothesis. How about when a team like ours plays through the early content waiting for the group dungeon content to start, then once we get there, its below expectations?
Bad implementation, required to make keys to dungeon, loot was trash, group system was trash, the combat didnt feel exciting in the group ...
Two of our group left around that time, the rest of us stuck it out to max level just to see if it would get any better, which it didnt.
All cities were owned by PVP'ers. No PVE server at all. Chat was dominated by PVP. So getting PVE groups was not easy.
Pretty much a bad system overall that didnt support grouping, so people that wanted grouping left.
I am casting my mind back here but I remember a lot more posters going on about the issues of getting keys than problems grouping or the quality of the expeditions.
Yeah keys made the problem worse. They made it very difficult to make keys, I think they give you 1 free key via quest, after that you have to find someone with a key in order to run the dungeon again. Pretty much had to kick someone from your group with the class of the person who had the key.
There was no easy way to form groups, so people sat at the dungeon entrance waiting for someone to show up.
Could'nt use chat since there was no PVE chat, either had to use the local chat spammed pvp chat or the global PVP spammed chat.
What a dumb idea to lock content behind 1 key per run.
Maybe a key to unlock the dungeon forever. But 1 key per run? Ugg what a dumb idea.
Yeah keys made the problem worse. They made it very difficult to make keys, I think they give you 1 free key via quest, after that you have to find someone with a key in order to run the dungeon again. Pretty much had to kick someone from your group with the class of the person who had the key.
There was no easy way to form groups, so people sat at the dungeon entrance waiting for someone to show up.
Could'nt use chat since there was no PVE chat, either had to use the local chat spammed pvp chat or the global PVP spammed chat.
What a dumb idea to lock content behind 1 key per run.
Maybe a key to unlock the dungeon forever. But 1 key per run? Ugg what a dumb idea.
That chat and grouping issue shouts "released too early" at me anyway.
What's pissing me off more than grouping is how almost every 'new' mmorpg over the past decade hasn't really added a pet class. Fkn lazy.
I liked pets in UO where you had to stable them. Nobody even comes close to 27 year old tech.
I dont even want to say that they can't, they just simply do not want to. Its kind of why I still do have some respect for Blizzard since they're still the only ones left that do pet classes half-way decent (or at all at this point). FF14 essentially takes away pets from classes that had them and either makes them an accessory (scholar), a cooldown (machinist), or just a flashy ability (summoner). All the while trying to hype people up for beastmaster, which will remain to see how that'll really work since its a limited job, but even so, essentially taking core features away from the game and then putting them back in as side content, all because they dont want to code pets to interact with their dance-athons masked as 'difficult content.'
It cannot be skipped as it is a main story quest with content locked behind completing it. If it was an optional side quest that could be skipped without impact otherwise than it wouldn't have been a bother.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
That was a poor decision but we have seen AGS make a lot of poor decisions, indeed we have seen as many of those sorts of complaints (ones about that sort of easily avoidable misstep or the likes of server transfers) as we have about actual gameplay. I can say in all my years on these forums no studio has been called out on management decisions more than AGS over the same period of time.
How can you still claim it was a poor management decision when their data clearly showed the forced grouping drove some segment of players from the game.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
Stop letting your fear of cooperation define how you interact with MMO's!
I love cooperation, but can't stand the impatience and asshattery of modern gamers.
Makes me want to reach through the internet to throttle them. Since I can't do so I avoid the frustration and only group with close friends or guild mates.
Most MMOs don't make it easy to stay together when leveling either.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Its kind of why I still do have some respect for Blizzard since they're
still the only ones left that do pet classes half-way decent (or at all
at this point)"
I remember when I was playing a Hunter in WoW that people would throw a fit if I brought out the pet in dungeons.
"Its kind of why I still do have some respect for Blizzard since they're
still the only ones left that do pet classes half-way decent (or at all
at this point)"
I remember when I was playing a Hunter in WoW that people would throw a fit if I brought out the pet in dungeons.
I've just always been a pet class person back to my days play D2. Loved WoW, FF11, Rift, Aion and GW2 because they all did pets decently at their respective times or at least added something semi-unique depending on the game.
I should probably give a shoutout to shapeshifters as well since they seem to be even more rare than pet classes.
I've never played a pet class where I've actually enjoyed the pets. They all have really buggy pathing, and they're dumb, so dumb! Then on top of that, your character tends to be weaker than other classes to balance out the pet's power. So, you're basically just a crippled class right from the get go. I never felt like this was suitably offset by the aesthetics of a pet.
and I say that as someone currently ranking up a squig herder in WAR!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Comments
As we have gotten older we just dont have the time to que up for the rift every friday night so options are great. I do remember needing 6 mans for the book quests that could be painful sometimes especially if someone like the tank or healer needs to go afk or cant make it.
Someone else said the youtube esports crowd ruined it for them I tried wow and everyone their was rush to the end and you better know the way it was shocking after lotro.
I think requiring a group to do content is tough but if thats the gamed you want stick to your guns and live with a smaller base games dont have to be everything to everyone.
Why a group was suddenly required for a main story quest that up to that point had been entirely solo I do not understand. It makes no sense in my view so it is no surprise to me that many found it a sticking point.
Regardless, it will soon be an issue of the past as the main story of NW:A will be entirely accessible solo.
"Last month during a visit to Amazon's Orange County studio, game director Scot Lane was quite clear that the drop off of players was very clearly at this first forced group content: the Amrine Expedition. That falloff continued with the rest of the expeditions that made up tentpole moments in New World's story, with the team clearly seeing a data point that necessitated change."
I even provided anecdotal evidence that in my own case I ran into a similar wall in the expansion. Sure, there were other factors in my decision to stop after 9 months but this blocker was quite significant as to why.
Who knows, may have been the proverbial final straw but I can say after several years it still sticks in my craw that I never got to finish that storyline.
I didn't even bother to look up how it all ended on YouTube, decided fudge it all, likely never going back to that one.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I will give an alternate hypothesis. How about when a team like ours plays through the early content waiting for the group dungeon content to start, then once we get there, its below expectations?
Bad implementation, required to make keys to dungeon, loot was trash, group system was trash, the combat didnt feel exciting in the group ...
Two of our group left around that time, the rest of us stuck it out to max level just to see if it would get any better, which it didnt.
All cities were owned by PVP'ers. No PVE server at all. Chat was dominated by PVP. So getting PVE groups was not easy.
Pretty much a bad system overall that didnt support grouping, so people that wanted grouping left.
I built the jail for a town (took several hours).
I built armor/weapons for people.
I built outposts I let guildmates use.
I didn't have to group to do that.
So again, I like the community, even cooperation, but don't want to need to wait around for 45 minutes for someone else to walk their dog and then run through a highly choreographed dance routine for an "Emblem of Power" that we need 40 of to get gear for everyone.
And I don't want to lose out on content just because of that.
Although I accept that a tough dungeon may not be survivable going solo, even if I only intend to scout it out to some degree.
Also, I want choices, not directions. I don't like "group only" and "solo" content design. I want that choice, generally speaking.
Once upon a time....
Anybody of any level can join. If you are higher you get down-leveled to 45, if you are lower you get up-leveled to 44. Teams are 8 people and if I broadcast that I'm doing the Tina McIntyre arc I'll have a full team in about 2 minutes. There is no waiting for the right level or class to join, I'll take a newbie literally at lvl 1, they will be playing at lvl 44 and can still contribute.
This makes teaming very easy.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
There was no easy way to form groups, so people sat at the dungeon entrance waiting for someone to show up.
Could'nt use chat since there was no PVE chat, either had to use the local chat spammed pvp chat or the global PVP spammed chat.
What a dumb idea to lock content behind 1 key per run.
Maybe a key to unlock the dungeon forever. But 1 key per run? Ugg what a dumb idea.
Nobody even comes close to 27 year old tech.
I dont even want to say that they can't, they just simply do not want to. Its kind of why I still do have some respect for Blizzard since they're still the only ones left that do pet classes half-way decent (or at all at this point). FF14 essentially takes away pets from classes that had them and either makes them an accessory (scholar), a cooldown (machinist), or just a flashy ability (summoner). All the while trying to hype people up for beastmaster, which will remain to see how that'll really work since its a limited job, but even so, essentially taking core features away from the game and then putting them back in as side content, all because they dont want to code pets to interact with their dance-athons masked as 'difficult content.'
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Makes me want to reach through the internet to throttle them. Since I can't do so I avoid the frustration and only group with close friends or guild mates.
Most MMOs don't make it easy to stay together when leveling either.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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