- raids with huge bosses and many players, special drops
- multi-mission story arcs
- tiered drops
One game has all these and definitely is not a WoW clone. It was developed before WoW even released.
All true. No one has ever cared. And I'm sorry if that sounds like I'm being rude to you, cause it's not meant to be pointed at you aside from quoting you. It's just that after WoW arrived and dominated, you couldn't convince even people who knew that other game exists, that the game you're talking about ever existed. Everything was WoWs discovery, even if that's highly untrue
I'll confess, I have never played WoW. I started MMO's with DAOC in 2001 and moved to CoH and Ryzom in 2004. I have played LoTRO and Vanguard so that's probably my closest to WoW experience.
- raids with huge bosses and many players, special drops
- multi-mission story arcs
- tiered drops
One game has all these and definitely is not a WoW clone. It was developed before WoW even released.
All true. No one has ever cared. And I'm sorry if that sounds like I'm being rude to you, cause it's not meant to be pointed at you aside from quoting you. It's just that after WoW arrived and dominated, you couldn't convince even people who knew that other game exists, that the game you're talking about ever existed. Everything was WoWs discovery, even if that's highly untrue
I'll confess, I have never played WoW. I started MMO's with DAOC in 2001 and moved to CoH and Ryzom in 2004. I have played LoTRO and Vanguard so that's probably my closest to WoW experience.
In some ways every MMO decided it had to learn from the WoW model as good and bad an idea as that was. So many changes made after WoW was such an enormous success had WoWs template in mind.
- raids with huge bosses and many players, special drops
- multi-mission story arcs
- tiered drops
One game has all these and definitely is not a WoW clone. It was developed before WoW even released.
All true. No one has ever cared. And I'm sorry if that sounds like I'm being rude to you, cause it's not meant to be pointed at you aside from quoting you. It's just that after WoW arrived and dominated, you couldn't convince even people who knew that other game exists, that the game you're talking about ever existed. Everything was WoWs discovery, even if that's highly untrue
I'll confess, I have never played WoW. I started MMO's with DAOC in 2001 and moved to CoH and Ryzom in 2004. I have played LoTRO and Vanguard so that's probably my closest to WoW experience.
If you played LoTRO at launch you were playing very much the same game as WOW.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- raids with huge bosses and many players, special drops
- multi-mission story arcs
- tiered drops
One game has all these and definitely is not a WoW clone. It was developed before WoW even released.
And what would that game be?
I'm glad you asked It is City of Heroes. It released in 2004 the same year as WoW and was developed before WoW released, obviously, so it can't be a clone.
- CoH has an overworld set of mobs and instanced dungeons too
- some bosses have shields that protect them, you have to wait for the right time to attack, other bosses explode when they die so you have to know to keep a certain distance, etc
- when a player joins with another player to team up, the joining player has their level scaled to the leader's. It was called "sidekicking" back then
- fetch and kill X missions were there from the beginning
- the Hami raid is an example of a giant boss that requires many people (40 or more) and has very specific mechanics to beat. Completing it drops special enhancements that cannot be gotten any other way
- multi-mission story arcs have been there since the beginning
- enhancement drops are based on the level or tier you are fighting
All of these features were in CoH before WoW was released. Perhaps WoW cloned it from them?
I really thought you were talking about DAOC except you kept mentioning instanced dungeons which was about the only thing on your list it didn't have.
Well, no side kicking either which you added this time around.
Still can't say I've heard anyone make the argument the two games were very similar as CoH was a breed apart and really popular with people who didn't enjoy most MMORPGs as they had been designed to that point in time.
I recall how the staff of Computer Gaming World went gaga over CoH after hating on pretty much every MMORPG released previous to it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- raids with huge bosses and many players, special drops
- multi-mission story arcs
- tiered drops
One game has all these and definitely is not a WoW clone. It was developed before WoW even released.
And what would that game be?
I'm glad you asked It is City of Heroes. It released in 2004 the same year as WoW and was developed before WoW released, obviously, so it can't be a clone.
- CoH has an overworld set of mobs and instanced dungeons too
- some bosses have shields that protect them, you have to wait for the right time to attack, other bosses explode when they die so you have to know to keep a certain distance, etc
- when a player joins with another player to team up, the joining player has their level scaled to the leader's. It was called "sidekicking" back then
- fetch and kill X missions were there from the beginning
- the Hami raid is an example of a giant boss that requires many people (40 or more) and has very specific mechanics to beat. Completing it drops special enhancements that cannot be gotten any other way
- multi-mission story arcs have been there since the beginning
- enhancement drops are based on the level or tier you are fighting
All of these features were in CoH before WoW was released. Perhaps WoW cloned it from them?
I really thought you were talking about DAOC except you kept mentioning instanced dungeons which was about the only thing on your list it didn't have.
Well, no side kicking either which you added this time around.
Still can't say I've heard anyone make the argument the two games were very similar as CoH was a breed apart and really popular with people who didn't enjoy most MMORPGs as they had been designed to that point in time.
I recall how the staff of Computer Gaming World went gaga over CoH after hating on pretty much every MMORPG released previous to it.
Turn it around, what did WoW have at launch that isn't on my list? Did WoW introduce any features or playing mechanics that were unique? Not on my list?
Maybe crafting? CoH at launch didn't have weapons or armor but you could upgrade the enhancements that dropped by combining them with other enhancements, so that was a form of crafting and upgrading. The enhancement drops were tiered, with TO's, DO's, and SO's of various levels. HO's come from the Hami raid.
Nobody could claim that CoH was a WoW clone, but I'm asserting that WoW didn't do anything new that CoH didn't do.
In fact, I think CoH had a major feature that WoW didn't: flying in a fully 3-D world. From the start, you could get the flying power and the world is fully 3-D; see that stop sign? You can fly up and land on top of it. Every building, every power line, even window sills on the 40th floor were there and can be landed on. Including flying combat.
So what new feature did WoW bring? Why is everything a "WoW clone" if WoW didn't actually introduce anything new?
edit: When DAOC came out I don't remember it having the standard quests to fetch items or kill X number of things. I remember grinding to get XP, no missions.
So what new feature did WoW bring? Why is everything a "WoW clone" if WoW didn't actually introduce anything new?
edit: When DAOC came out I don't remember it having the standard quests to fetch items or kill X number of things. I remember grinding to get XP, no missions.
World of warcraft took other ideas in other games and made them more accessible. They made it so that people were very clear about their game play and what they could do.
I remember reading their design ideas at the time and things like making it clear who had quests, what the rewards would be, not having a long slog to the next zone, etc, were part of how they streamlined everything.
At the time (no longer) I liked that they had quests because it gave a background or "premise" to why I was killing monsters. I wouldn't just go out to a field and grind but I'd take the quest, understand the little story and THEN go out and grind. Then I'd turn in the quest. This was in their closed beta as I never played world of warcraft at launch.
My game was Lineage 2 so there were very few quests, no "!" above the quest givers (just had to find them) and certain quests sent you all over the place. the quests to change to your next class at 40 (if memory serves) were grueling as they took you all over the world and made you jump through all sorts of hoops.
The next game I tried was Lord of the Rings online, in closed beta, and it felt like world of warcraft. Subsequent games felt like world of warcraft.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So what new feature did WoW bring? Why is everything a "WoW clone" if WoW didn't actually introduce anything new?
edit: When DAOC came out I don't remember it having the standard quests to fetch items or kill X number of things. I remember grinding to get XP, no missions.
At the time (no longer) I liked that they had quests because it gave a background or "premise" to why I was killing monsters. I wouldn't just go out to a field and grind but I'd take the quest, understand the little story and THEN go out and grind. Then I'd turn in the quest. This was in their closed beta as I never played world of warcraft at launch.
The next game I tried was Lord of the Rings online, in closed beta, and it felt like world of warcraft. Subsequent games felt like world of warcraft.
CoH did that too, there were back stories for the different criminal types and sometimes a series of missions to describe a story with those types of enemies.
I played LoTRO in closed beta and I guess that is my WoW experience. I was also playing Ryzom at that time, a much different game. I also played PotBS, another much different game.
It's amazing that CoH and LoTRO are still going, and I regularly play both of them.
There are a few points in here that only started happening part way through the original WOTLK and just got worse each expansion that passes. Cataclysm still had some on the feel, but not much. Blizzard did this to themselves and that’s why any clones suck. Because they took the suck parts without the good im
Comments
I'll confess, I have never played WoW. I started MMO's with DAOC in 2001 and moved to CoH and Ryzom in 2004. I have played LoTRO and Vanguard so that's probably my closest to WoW experience.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
WoW released AFTER eq1 smh
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, no side kicking either which you added this time around.
Still can't say I've heard anyone make the argument the two games were very similar as CoH was a breed apart and really popular with people who didn't enjoy most MMORPGs as they had been designed to that point in time.
I recall how the staff of Computer Gaming World went gaga over CoH after hating on pretty much every MMORPG released previous to it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I see I still have much to learn.
Is the author taking on disciples at this time?
Maybe crafting? CoH at launch didn't have weapons or armor but you could upgrade the enhancements that dropped by combining them with other enhancements, so that was a form of crafting and upgrading. The enhancement drops were tiered, with TO's, DO's, and SO's of various levels. HO's come from the Hami raid.
Nobody could claim that CoH was a WoW clone, but I'm asserting that WoW didn't do anything new that CoH didn't do.
In fact, I think CoH had a major feature that WoW didn't: flying in a fully 3-D world. From the start, you could get the flying power and the world is fully 3-D; see that stop sign? You can fly up and land on top of it. Every building, every power line, even window sills on the 40th floor were there and can be landed on. Including flying combat.
So what new feature did WoW bring? Why is everything a "WoW clone" if WoW didn't actually introduce anything new?
edit: When DAOC came out I don't remember it having the standard quests to fetch items or kill X number of things. I remember grinding to get XP, no missions.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I played LoTRO in closed beta and I guess that is my WoW experience. I was also playing Ryzom at that time, a much different game. I also played PotBS, another much different game.
It's amazing that CoH and LoTRO are still going, and I regularly play both of them.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.