If you're going to go through all this effort to discourage ganking, then why bother to have it in the game? It is weird to me to put in a feature, then spend months of development time to convince people not to use it. *shrug* Sure, give it another shot.
These games always try to find the perfect system where yes we have ganking but there are consequences for it....The players always find a way around it....I have never seen it work well in any game....Give this one time...Players will find ways around the system. Personally i wont play multiplayer games where there is ganking anymore...its a waste of my time.
This argument of "Its never worked in any other game so therefore there is no solution" is so weird. If you have this stance, then you will never like Ashes and you are just wasting everyone's time by commenting and being here because every single ashes system is built with this in mind. Its not changing. Its impossible to change at this point. The game will not be for you.
There is a solution. Imagine the most extreme end of the penalty spectrum where your entire account gets deleted if you kill a random player. Well then no one would ever gank anyone, right? So if that is true, then there is a point along that spectrum where the penalty is reasonable but still heavy enough that they aren't ganking other people very often. That's the goal of ashes afaik.
The goal is for random ganking pvp to not really be a thing that happens often but that hard game limitation that just doesn't let you murder someone is gone. You can choose to take the heavy consequences or not.
The goal is for the vast majority of pvp to be opt in. Caravans are an opt in system that is not required to take part in. Sieges are opt in that you don't need to be part of. Guild pvp is optional. You can just be in a pacifist guild that bothers no one. The open seas can be avoided completely by flight points. Etc.
I am not saying this game will succeed where every other game has failed but I know there is a solution it will just take a proper developer who looks at the data and keeps moving the dials/needle until it gets to a good spot.
I dont like hard limitations that tells me no, I cant ever attack anyone no matter how hard they troll me or whatever. Its immersion breaking and takes me out of the world which is what MMOs are all about.
Honestly the fact that the developers cannot think through what Brainy posted and many others have posted similarly about the swiss cheese holes in this games corruption system tells me that the developers aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. There's a different in life between intelligence and wisdom. I have no doubt the developers are intelligent. Being able to code C++ requires intelligence to do it well. However, it doesn't mean you have a single shread of wisdom. It takes wisdom to build a PvP game because you have to be able to think like the biggest group of exploiter jackwagons who is just out to ruin everyone's day. What would a whole guild of these people do in your game and what systems are they going to exploit to do it? If you can't put yourself in that mental state you shouldn't be building a PvP game unless you're just going to go full open loot open PvP all the time and accept the fractional player base that comes with it.
The only purpose of the corruption system now is to bait and switch PvE players into joining the game, but they are going to find out very quickly that it was, in fact, a bait and switch.
When I saw the page of rules that made up the tagging system I did wonder do they understand PvP in MMOs that well, what is their background?
This argument of "Its never worked in any other game so therefore there is no solution" is so weird. If you have this stance, then you will never like Ashes and you are just wasting everyone's time by commenting and being here because every single ashes system is built with this in mind. Its not changing. Its impossible to change at this point. The game will not be for you.
The argument "if you arent praising the game then dont talk about it at all" is so weird.
If you dont want to read the opinions of people that dont align with your own then maybe forums arent for you. Go join the Discord or whatever and circle jerk over how awesome the game is if thats what you want.
Forums will have people talking about the game that dont like it, that isnt changing.
This argument of "Its never worked in any other game so therefore there is no solution" is so weird. If you have this stance, then you will never like Ashes and you are just wasting everyone's time by commenting and being here because every single ashes system is built with this in mind. Its not changing. Its impossible to change at this point. The game will not be for you.
The argument "if you arent praising the game then dont talk about it at all" is so weird.
If you dont want to read the opinions of people that dont align with your own then maybe forums arent for you. Go join the Discord or whatever and circle jerk over how awesome the game is if thats what you want.
Forums will have people talking about the game that dont like it, that isnt changing.
Forums are not for you.
Notice how I was actually paraphrasing something people were actually saying and you just made up something that I didn't say?
I never said praise the game. I have a whole list of things they need to fix or problems with the game. The best things I've said about the alpha 2 is that its a decent foundation. Pretty weird to just make up stuff that I've said so you can get mad about it and argue against it.
But do you think they will change the pvp when every single system is integrated with it in mind? Pvp is literally at its core. What is the point? I just wonder why people would waste their and everyone elses time like that. Its not changing.
This argument of "Its never worked in any other game so therefore there is no solution" is so weird. If you have this stance, then you will never like Ashes and you are just wasting everyone's time by commenting and being here because every single ashes system is built with this in mind. Its not changing. Its impossible to change at this point. The game will not be for you.
The argument "if you arent praising the game then dont talk about it at all" is so weird.
If you dont want to read the opinions of people that dont align with your own then maybe forums arent for you. Go join the Discord or whatever and circle jerk over how awesome the game is if thats what you want.
Forums will have people talking about the game that dont like it, that isnt changing.
Forums are not for you.
Notice how I was actually paraphrasing something people were actually saying and you just made up something that I didn't say?
I never said praise the game. I have a whole list of things they need to fix or problems with the game. The best things I've said about the alpha 2 is that its a decent foundation. Pretty weird to just make up stuff that I've said so you can get mad about it and argue against it.
But do you think they will change the pvp when every single system is integrated with it in mind? Pvp is literally at its core. What is the point? I just wonder why people would waste their and everyone elses time like that. Its not changing.
Ask the dev team over at Fractured Online if that is really true?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This argument of "Its never worked in any other game so therefore there is no solution" is so weird. If you have this stance, then you will never like Ashes and you are just wasting everyone's time by commenting and being here because every single ashes system is built with this in mind. Its not changing. Its impossible to change at this point. The game will not be for you.
The argument "if you arent praising the game then dont talk about it at all" is so weird.
If you dont want to read the opinions of people that dont align with your own then maybe forums arent for you. Go join the Discord or whatever and circle jerk over how awesome the game is if thats what you want.
Forums will have people talking about the game that dont like it, that isnt changing.
Forums are not for you.
Notice how I was actually paraphrasing something people were actually saying and you just made up something that I didn't say?
I never said praise the game. I have a whole list of things they need to fix or problems with the game. The best things I've said about the alpha 2 is that its a decent foundation. Pretty weird to just make up stuff that I've said so you can get mad about it and argue against it.
But do you think they will change the pvp when every single system is integrated with it in mind? Pvp is literally at its core. What is the point? I just wonder why people would waste their and everyone elses time like that. Its not changing.
Ask the dev team over at Fractured Online if that is really true?
They'll switch the whole thing over to a dating site if that it what it takes to keep the lights on.
My main point was that just because a handful of pvp mmos hasn't succeeded doesn't mean it isn't possible.
DAoC still going. ESO had one of the most active PvP fan base since DAoC but they forgot to upgrade the engine, just did not keep modern. Zeni mismanaged the PvP side of the game and it took years of neglect to drive away the PvP community. As a fan of such games I can tell you, this game is designed for people like me. Been playing it for 3 days and this is the the type of game we have been waiting for. I can't wait for the PvP large scale battles.
My main point was that just because a handful of pvp mmos hasn't succeeded doesn't mean it isn't possible.
DAoC still going. ESO had one of the most active PvP fan base since DAoC but they forgot to upgrade the engine, just did not keep modern. Zeni mismanaged the PvP side of the game and it took years of neglect to drive away the PvP community. As a fan of such games I can tell you, this game is designed for people like me. Been playing it for 3 days and this is the the type of game we have been waiting for. I can't wait for the PvP large scale battles.
I don't think people are struggling with PvP in general, or that confined to zones. I think open world is a bit if an issue.
My main point was that just because a handful of pvp mmos hasn't succeeded doesn't mean it isn't possible.
DAoC still going. ESO had one of the most active PvP fan base since DAoC but they forgot to upgrade the engine, just did not keep modern. Zeni mismanaged the PvP side of the game and it took years of neglect to drive away the PvP community. As a fan of such games I can tell you, this game is designed for people like me. Been playing it for 3 days and this is the the type of game we have been waiting for. I can't wait for the PvP large scale battles.
I don't think people are struggling with PvP in general, or that confined to zones. I think open world is a bit if an issue.
My main point was that just because a handful of pvp mmos hasn't succeeded doesn't mean it isn't possible.
DAoC still going. ESO had one of the most active PvP fan base since DAoC but they forgot to upgrade the engine, just did not keep modern. Zeni mismanaged the PvP side of the game and it took years of neglect to drive away the PvP community. As a fan of such games I can tell you, this game is designed for people like me. Been playing it for 3 days and this is the the type of game we have been waiting for. I can't wait for the PvP large scale battles.
Both DAoC and ESO isolate their PvP content. You can play in DAoC and with the exception of that one dungeon never encounter PvP. I think ESO I may be wrong since I played ages ago also have their PvP in an area that is not the rest of the game.
The games you're using does not support Ashes where you have no real choice to avoid PvP. Games can have very active PvP content without ostracizing their PvE base. That is what both DAoC and ESO managed.
My main point was that just because a handful of pvp mmos hasn't succeeded doesn't mean it isn't possible.
DAoC still going. ESO had one of the most active PvP fan base since DAoC but they forgot to upgrade the engine, just did not keep modern. Zeni mismanaged the PvP side of the game and it took years of neglect to drive away the PvP community. As a fan of such games I can tell you, this game is designed for people like me. Been playing it for 3 days and this is the the type of game we have been waiting for. I can't wait for the PvP large scale battles.
Both DAoC and ESO isolate their PvP content. You can play in DAoC and with the exception of that one dungeon never encounter PvP. I think ESO I may be wrong since I played ages ago also have their PvP in an area that is not the rest of the game.
The games you're using does not support Ashes where you have no real choice to avoid PvP. Games can have very active PvP content without ostracizing their PvE base. That is what both DAoC and ESO managed.
And both games had PvE in a very large PvP map. That's what Ashes is. But instead of the PvP taking 2nd place to the PvE players. We come first. That's what Ashes is.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Asking again what do we know about the background of the devs for this one, what previous games if any have they made?
The lead Dev / Owner Steven was the leader of a large alliance in ArcheAge and reportedly whaled pretty hard while there. He said he has taken inspiration from Lineage 2, EVE and ArchAge.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Asking again what do we know about the background of the devs for this one, what previous games if any have they made?
Steven has been snatching up talent from all over the place. He has been picky and only taking on staff that have the type of portfolios he wants. Some of them from the development of EQ1 as there start of making MMOs.
At the back of my mind I thought they had been in the industry, so I am putting this down to alpha and we can look to some sense shinning through for beta.
Doesn't Uncharted Waters Online have a PvE server ? If it does that explains why it didn't fall into the same issues.
I will wait and see how the systems are circumvented during release to decide if I will play. Players always surprise developers with their creative ways.
Uncharted Waters Origin does. So far as I know Uncharted Waters Online does not. They are very different games.
My main point was that just because a handful of pvp mmos hasn't succeeded doesn't mean it isn't possible.
DAoC still going. ESO had one of the most active PvP fan base since DAoC but they forgot to upgrade the engine, just did not keep modern. Zeni mismanaged the PvP side of the game and it took years of neglect to drive away the PvP community. As a fan of such games I can tell you, this game is designed for people like me. Been playing it for 3 days and this is the the type of game we have been waiting for. I can't wait for the PvP large scale battles.
Both DAoC and ESO isolate their PvP content. You can play in DAoC and with the exception of that one dungeon never encounter PvP. I think ESO I may be wrong since I played ages ago also have their PvP in an area that is not the rest of the game.
The games you're using does not support Ashes where you have no real choice to avoid PvP. Games can have very active PvP content without ostracizing their PvE base. That is what both DAoC and ESO managed.
ESO has two PvP areas, Cyrodiil which is large and open and Imperial City which is a more confined location. They are easily avoided, but those that don't go there miss out on shards in the area they could have otherwise collected.
" He said he has taken inspiration from Lineage 2, EVE and ArchAge."
Thats enough to scare me away!
Also, SW-KtoR for crafting but what he is taking from where is what matter. Eve is their free market system, not the gameplay, Archage their caravan system and Ship combat, Linage 2 there PvP flagging system. 1/2 the games I do not like on this list. I can say, I do like Ashes. So far...
" He said he has taken inspiration from Lineage 2, EVE and ArchAge."
Thats enough to scare me away!
I'm going to create a character named "Nanfoodle" in a game you're playing, hunt you down, gank and dry-loot you, then do a dance emote - just so I can come back here and read the drama.
Even if your game is PvE only, I'll pay the devs to turn on PvP for the one encounter.
" He said he has taken inspiration from Lineage 2, EVE and ArchAge."
Thats enough to scare me away!
I'm going to create a character named "Nanfoodle" in a game you're playing, hunt you down, gank and dry-loot you, then do a dance emote - just so I can come back here and read the drama.
Even if your game is PvE only, I'll pay the devs to turn on PvP for the one encounter.
Still sore about when "Wargfeet" did that to you in Fractured Online?
Sorry.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
These games always try to find the perfect system where yes we have ganking but there are consequences for it....The players always find a way around it....I have never seen it work well in any game....Give this one time...Players will find ways around the system. Personally i wont play multiplayer games where there is ganking anymore...its a waste of my time.
There is a solution. Imagine the most extreme end of the penalty spectrum where your entire account gets deleted if you kill a random player. Well then no one would ever gank anyone, right? So if that is true, then there is a point along that spectrum where the penalty is reasonable but still heavy enough that they aren't ganking other people very often. That's the goal of ashes afaik.
The goal is for random ganking pvp to not really be a thing that happens often but that hard game limitation that just doesn't let you murder someone is gone. You can choose to take the heavy consequences or not.
The goal is for the vast majority of pvp to be opt in. Caravans are an opt in system that is not required to take part in. Sieges are opt in that you don't need to be part of. Guild pvp is optional. You can just be in a pacifist guild that bothers no one. The open seas can be avoided completely by flight points. Etc.
I am not saying this game will succeed where every other game has failed but I know there is a solution it will just take a proper developer who looks at the data and keeps moving the dials/needle until it gets to a good spot.
I dont like hard limitations that tells me no, I cant ever attack anyone no matter how hard they troll me or whatever. Its immersion breaking and takes me out of the world which is what MMOs are all about.
I never said praise the game. I have a whole list of things they need to fix or problems with the game. The best things I've said about the alpha 2 is that its a decent foundation. Pretty weird to just make up stuff that I've said so you can get mad about it and argue against it.
But do you think they will change the pvp when every single system is integrated with it in mind? Pvp is literally at its core. What is the point? I just wonder why people would waste their and everyone elses time like that. Its not changing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah I am sure after 8 years of development they will remove sieges, caravan pvp, guild wars, node wars, open seas pvp, etc.
Oh also the entire economy was based around pvp conflict.
Go ahead and continue shouting into the wind guys that wasn't even my main point.
My main point was that just because a handful of pvp mmos hasn't succeeded doesn't mean it isn't possible.
I think open world is a bit if an issue.
The games you're using does not support Ashes where you have no real choice to avoid PvP. Games can have very active PvP content without ostracizing their PvE base. That is what both DAoC and ESO managed.
But I agree, they could be successful like EVE or Albion Online have been over the years, would be good enough for most I would imagine.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Clearly building another WOW clone.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Uncharted Waters Origin does. So far as I know Uncharted Waters Online does not. They are very different games.
ESO has two PvP areas, Cyrodiil which is large and open and Imperial City which is a more confined location. They are easily avoided, but those that don't go there miss out on shards in the area they could have otherwise collected.
Even if your game is PvE only, I'll pay the devs to turn on PvP for the one encounter.
Sorry.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018