It really depends on the setting. Though both Mass Effect and Dragon Age games had a pretty dark setting and it always reflected in the story and dialog. It's what made them good games and successful in my opinion.
This has now been thrown out of the window entirely with Veilguard and turned into a childish game with cringe dialog.
Bad dialog can be a real issue for me, will keep an especial eye out when checking the videos for that. When you say childish, so much of entertainment is being turned into something teens like, while it seems the stuff the teens used to like is being turned into something for pre-teens.
Still recon it will get a 75 to 80 average score at MC, but we shall see.
I mean let's say for the sake of argument that it averages out to a 70. If you tell me that none of your favorite games are scored 7/10, you're either lying, haven't thought about it, or haven't played that many games. Everyone has at least one 7 that hits just right.
I don't think it will score that low but that's possible. Remember "Elex", that got a MC score of 67, it was a great game. I trusted it for two reasons (aside from watching videos etc) it was from a studio that had made a number of similar titles and the more negative reviews kept going on about it being old school and I knew that would not put me off. But of course for many players a 70 will quite rightly put them off, to decide you always need to look past the score.
SW Outlaws got a 70 btw, I think that could fall into the area you mention as well, still undecided if I will get it. So I think we agree pretty closely here actually.
Looks like so far, PC critic scores are lower (80) than PS5 (84) and XBOX (93)
I wonder if that is due to the "newness" of the franchise on console vs PC, it playing better on a controller, or just different biases of the various groups.
Of course, it's a relatively small sample size so this could change... but I did find it interesting.
PS- Also interesting that as of now 51 reviews were from PS5, 23 PC and 5 XBOX...
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And yet an 8.8 was produced, so the Publisher got the result they wanted so...
See point No. 5 in my post just prior to yours.
Greetings skeptical MMORPGer,
As a one time avid Bubble Bobble player, I'm accustomed to bursting bubbles, so it may interest you to know that detrimental scores do not prohibit us from receiving advanced review codes. My review score history should be a testament to that.
I think sometimes people just want to read things that reaffirm their opinions, and that's okay.
Not everyone will agree with every review, and that's okay too.
But I also think it's okay to realize that a game can receive a good aggregate review score and there will be people who still don't like it.
Our review and editorial content is independent of everything, including advertising, with the exception of the clearly marked sponsored posts. There was nothing influencing me apart from the game itself.
Happy posting!
Data != opinions. As such, here are BioWare's past games' review scores on MMORPG.com:
Dragon Age: Inquisition 8.6 ME Andromeda 8.7 Anthem 6.5 ME Legendary Edition 9.0
Of course they knew that the game would be given a good score on this site, considering how that flop that even they abandoned (Anthem) was considered an above average or "good/okay" game and not just a 5 (passable) or less. This just kind of proves what the other guy said about review codes being carefully sent. They don't need to pay you directly or even intimidate you to review the game in a certain way, since they had that historical record to be almost certain about the game receiving a certain score due to the general taste or views of the reviewers. That's what "cherry picking" who they sent the codes to means.
Note how I'm not accusing you of anything. Every person has different tastes, and that's okay (as long as personal views don't get in the way of giving a professional review *cough*IGN*cough*). But what we're discussing here is if critic scores can be taken as gospel or if more often than not they've not been representing what the actual audiences like or want since several years ago. Especially given how game studios try to manipulate one way or another the reviews, making the gap between the surviving professional critics and the audience wider.
As it stands, given what we know, I'm certain that the game will certainly not be considered an 8.8 by the general audience. But, as I said earlier, time will tell.
Looks like so far, PC critic scores are lower (80) than PS5 (84) and XBOX (93)
I wonder if that is due to the "newness" of the franchise on console vs PC, it playing better on a controller, or just different biases of the various groups.
Of course, it's a relatively small sample size so this could change... but I did find it interesting.
I am no doubt showing my bias here but DA:VG graphics are way more suitable for consoles, more par for the course than on the PC.
It really depends on the setting. Though both Mass Effect and Dragon Age games had a pretty dark setting and it always reflected in the story and dialog. It's what made them good games and successful in my opinion.
This has now been thrown out of the window entirely with Veilguard and turned into a childish game with cringe dialog.
Bad dialog can be a real issue for me, will keep an especial eye out when checking the videos for that. When you say childish, so much of entertainment is being turned into something teens like, while it seems the stuff the teens used to like is being turned into something for pre-teens.
That is the problem these days. We see it happening in Hollywood too now. Everyone is playing it extremely safe, to not accidently hurt someone's feelings and get character assassinated by certain press outlets.
Just see what happened to the CEO, that posted a comment under AsmonGold's youtube video about why Space Marine 2 is such a success, where he wrote that they wanted to stay true to the lore, keep politics out of it and just make a fun game people want to play.
Immediately after that youtube comment was posted, sites like Kotaku went after the CEO in a character assassination crusade. They are even going after Henry Cavil now, because he is trying to block Amazon, who continues pressing GW for allowing female Space Marines.
That's the world we live in today and where we heading. I am all about inclusion, diversity, etc. But what's happening now is just plain wrong, is just another form of extremism and only creates resentment and pushback.
For example, TV series like Game of Thrones won't be greenlit anymore today. If they had delayed it by just a couple years before pitching the idea of the TV series at studios it would have never happened and seen the light of day. It would have been a total outrage in the media. In worse case, it would have ignored over half the lore in the books, removed any stuff that might be offending and turned it into something completely unrecognizable like Amazon did with Rings of Power and Wheel of Time or Netflix tried to do with The Witcher, where Netflix writers openly mocked and ridiculed the Author of the Witcher books.
Data != opinions. As such, here are BioWare's past games' review scores on MMORPG.com:
Dragon Age: Inquisition 8.6 ME Andromeda 8.7 Anthem 6.5 ME Legendary Edition 9.0
Of course they knew that the game would be given a good score on this site, considering how that flop that even they abandoned (Anthem) was considered an above average or "good/okay" game and not just a 5 (passable) or less. This just kind of proves what the other guy said about review codes being carefully sent. They don't need to pay you directly or even intimidate you to review the game in a certain way, since they had that historical record to be almost certain about the game receiving a certain score due to the general taste or views of the reviewers. That's what "cherry picking" who they sent the codes to means.
Note how I'm not accusing you of anything. Every person has different tastes, and that's okay (as long as personal views don't get in the way of giving a professional review *cough*IGN*cough*). But what we're discussing here is if critic scores can be taken as gospel or if more often than not they've not been representing what the actual audiences like or want since several years ago. Especially given how game studios try to manipulate one way or another the reviews, making the gap between the surviving professional critics and the audience wider.
As it stands, given what we know, I'm certain that the game will certainly not be considered an 8.8 by the general audience. But, as I said earlier, time will tell.
Are you taking into account that scores have a drift to being higher over the years and therefore most individual reviewers are scoring more highly?
This drift it noticeable in any organisation or system that gives awards from gaming reviews, to TV Show awards to the Olympics.
And yet an 8.8 was produced, so the Publisher got the result they wanted so...
See point No. 5 in my post just prior to yours.
Greetings skeptical MMORPGer,
As a one time avid Bubble Bobble player, I'm accustomed to bursting bubbles, so it may interest you to know that detrimental scores do not prohibit us from receiving advanced review codes. My review score history should be a testament to that.
I think sometimes people just want to read things that reaffirm their opinions, and that's okay.
Not everyone will agree with every review, and that's okay too.
But I also think it's okay to realize that a game can receive a good aggregate review score and there will be people who still don't like it.
Our review and editorial content is independent of everything, including advertising, with the exception of the clearly marked sponsored posts. There was nothing influencing me apart from the game itself.
Happy posting!
Data != opinions. As such, here are BioWare's past games' review scores on MMORPG.com:
Dragon Age: Inquisition 8.6 ME Andromeda 8.7 Anthem 6.5 ME Legendary Edition 9.0
Of course they knew that the game would be given a good score on this site, considering how that flop that even they abandoned (Anthem) was considered an above average or "good/okay" game and not just a 5 (passable) or less. This just kind of proves what the other guy said about review codes being carefully sent. They don't need to pay you directly or even intimidate you to review the game in a certain way, since they had that historical record to be almost certain about the game receiving a certain score due to the general taste or views of the reviewers. That's what "cherry picking" who they sent the codes to means.
Note how I'm not accusing you of anything. Every person has different tastes, and that's okay (as long as personal views don't get in the way of giving a professional review *cough*IGN*cough*). But what we're discussing here is if critic scores can be taken as gospel or if more often than not they've not been representing what the actual audiences like or want since several years ago. Especially given how game studios try to manipulate one way or another the reviews, making the gap between the surviving professional critics and the audience wider.
As it stands, given what we know, I'm certain that the game will certainly not be considered an 8.8 by the general audience. But, as I said earlier, time will tell.
Anthem still has fans. Because it was over-hated. One of the most overhated games ever made.
Scores are subjective. I'd have scored it a 7. Because it had peak gunplay. Because traversal was fun. Because it had one of, if not the, best visual wardrobe features ever made. There was something worth saving there, and I frankly would have preferred to live in a world where it was still getting updated.
Data != opinions. As such, here are BioWare's past games' review scores on MMORPG.com:
Dragon Age: Inquisition 8.6 ME Andromeda 8.7 Anthem 6.5 ME Legendary Edition 9.0
Of course they knew that the game would be given a good score on this site, considering how that flop that even they abandoned (Anthem) was considered an above average or "good/okay" game and not just a 5 (passable) or less. This just kind of proves what the other guy said about review codes being carefully sent. They don't need to pay you directly or even intimidate you to review the game in a certain way, since they had that historical record to be almost certain about the game receiving a certain score due to the general taste or views of the reviewers. That's what "cherry picking" who they sent the codes to means.
Note how I'm not accusing you of anything. Every person has different tastes, and that's okay (as long as personal views don't get in the way of giving a professional review *cough*IGN*cough*). But what we're discussing here is if critic scores can be taken as gospel or if more often than not they've not been representing what the actual audiences like or want since several years ago. Especially given how game studios try to manipulate one way or another the reviews, making the gap between the surviving professional critics and the audience wider.
As it stands, given what we know, I'm certain that the game will certainly not be considered an 8.8 by the general audience. But, as I said earlier, time will tell.
Are you taking into account that scores have a drift to being higher over the years and therefore most individual reviewers are scoring more highly?
This drift it noticeable in any organisation or system that gives awards from gaming reviews, to TV Show awards to the Olympics.
As I said just there, studios manipulating the review system (not necessarily the reviewers themselves, even if that also happens sometimes) and keeping those critics that would give them bad scores out of business has been what has made reviews to score more highly on average (since those that would give them lower scores are either not there anymore, or try to not give such bad scores to stay on the business). Call it a forced echo chamber, if you like, due to studios helping to stay relevant those critics that share certain tastes or views. And yes, it's not limited to the gaming industry.
There might still be folks giving lower reviews more in line with the audience expectations, but you can see why they're lower in number or just do post launch reviews. As someone else explained better than I would, those are a just a few that are able to survive to the unfair competition.
Anthem still has fans. Because it was over-hated. One of the most overhated games ever made.
Scores are subjective. I'd have scored it a 7. Because it had peak gunplay. Because traversal was fun. Because it had one of, if not the, best visual wardrobe features ever made. There was something worth saving there, and I frankly would have preferred to live in a world where it was still getting updated.
It doesn't matter if it still has fans. And the opinion of it being overhated, while valid, is just that, an opinion. The fact is that the game was a failure, as the numbers can show, and was also abandoned by BioWare (despite their promises about fixing the issues). That's not subjective.
And, no, professional scores should try to stay away as much as possible from being subjective. Or at least there should be a wide array of professional critics with different views and tastes able to offer customers a varied glimpse of what the game (or product) is like. But, unlike with user scores, that doesn't currently exist neither in the gaming industry or the entertainment industry in general. And that's why there's often a gap between critics and the audience, as I said.
And yet an 8.8 was produced, so the Publisher got the result they wanted so...
See point No. 5 in my post just prior to yours.
Greetings skeptical MMORPGer,
As a one time avid Bubble Bobble player, I'm accustomed to bursting bubbles, so it may interest you to know that detrimental scores do not prohibit us from receiving advanced review codes. My review score history should be a testament to that.
I think sometimes people just want to read things that reaffirm their opinions, and that's okay.
Not everyone will agree with every review, and that's okay too.
But I also think it's okay to realize that a game can receive a good aggregate review score and there will be people who still don't like it.
Our review and editorial content is independent of everything, including advertising, with the exception of the clearly marked sponsored posts. There was nothing influencing me apart from the game itself.
Happy posting!
Data != opinions. As such, here are BioWare's past games' review scores on MMORPG.com:
Dragon Age: Inquisition 8.6 ME Andromeda 8.7 Anthem 6.5 ME Legendary Edition 9.0
Of course they knew that the game would be given a good score on this site, considering how that flop that even they abandoned (Anthem) was considered an above average or "good/okay" game and not just a 5 (passable) or less. This just kind of proves what the other guy said about review codes being carefully sent. They don't need to pay you directly or even intimidate you to review the game in a certain way, since they had that historical record to be almost certain about the game receiving a certain score due to the general taste or views of the reviewers. That's what "cherry picking" who they sent the codes to means.
Note how I'm not accusing you of anything. Every person has different tastes, and that's okay (as long as personal views don't get in the way of giving a professional review *cough*IGN*cough*). But what we're discussing here is if critic scores can be taken as gospel or if more often than not they've not been representing what the actual audiences like or want since several years ago. Especially given how game studios try to manipulate one way or another the reviews, making the gap between the surviving professional critics and the audience wider.
As it stands, given what we know, I'm certain that the game will certainly not be considered an 8.8 by the general audience. But, as I said earlier, time will tell.
Given that anything lower than a 7 is considered bad I wouldn’t say anthem’s score is above average.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
JeroKane said:I am all about inclusion, diversity, etc. But what's happening now is just plain wrong, is just another form of extremism and only creates resentment and pushback.
I'm skeptical of this claim. You pose all this as if the tendency to rage about popular culture is the sole provenance of people that are critical of traditional themes--and not at all a constant among all political orientations. Observe the obsession with bringing up woke and dei, all that dumbfuck terminology, whenever someone talks about Bioware, or goodness gracious gives a decent subjective valuation of one of their games.
You can't avoid politics by asserting that you choose not to be political. That declaration in itself is political. Of course it would be great if we could just all get along and let creators express themselves without the pressure of considering every possibility of offense. But what is so often missed in these types of conversations is that so many of us consider that their well-being, and even survival, is at stake, and are obviously not quite so concerned with the artistic integrity of tv shows and video games.
My biggest concern with Veilguard, based on reading/viewing both positive and negative reviews, is how seemingly sanitized the world/story seems to be. The environments look super clean, the characters are pleasant most of the time, and there don't seem to be overly meaningful choices.
I fell in love with Dragon Age Origins because of its dark setting and impactful choices. The shit I saw in those dwarven mines literally gave me nightmares. Losing companions due to poor choices in DA2 was brutal. While maybe not quite as dark, the world building and open nature of DAI was excellent.
I don't feel any of that watching gameplay of Veilguard.
My biggest concern with Veilguard, based on reading/viewing both positive and negative reviews, is how seemingly sanitized the world/story seems to be. The environments look super clean, the characters are pleasant most of the time, and there don't seem to be overly meaningful choices.
I fell in love with Dragon Age Origins because if its dark setting and impactful choices. The shit I saw in those dwarven mines literally gave me nightmares. Losing companions due to poor choices in DA2 was brutal. While maybe not quite as dark, the world building and open nature of DAI was excellent.
I don't feel any of that watching gameplay of Veilguard.
I agree for me that’s a negative as well.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
And yet an 8.8 was produced, so the Publisher got the result they wanted so...
See point No. 5 in my post just prior to yours.
Greetings skeptical MMORPGer,
As a one time avid Bubble Bobble player, I'm accustomed to bursting bubbles, so it may interest you to know that detrimental scores do not prohibit us from receiving advanced review codes. My review score history should be a testament to that.
I think sometimes people just want to read things that reaffirm their opinions, and that's okay.
Not everyone will agree with every review, and that's okay too.
But I also think it's okay to realize that a game can receive a good aggregate review score and there will be people who still don't like it.
Our review and editorial content is independent of everything, including advertising, with the exception of the clearly marked sponsored posts. There was nothing influencing me apart from the game itself.
Happy posting!
Not being paid doesn't mean the reviewer will be less biased. I think it's ridiculous people expect others to put in all the work of playing and reviewing a game for free.
Steven why didn't you put in hundreds or thousands of dollars of extra video work and commentary for free? lmao. That's in addition to all the time, effort, and work put into the main review. To me, it reeks of entitlement, but I guess it's just the slings and arrows of dealing with an anonymous gamer base.
The combat and art in the game looks fine to me. I'll try it when it comes to EA Play/GamePass because I didn't like the characters and plot in Inquisition. Sovrath's post about the game almost exactly echo mine so I won't bother [writing more about it].
JeroKane said:I am all about inclusion, diversity, etc. But what's happening now is just plain wrong, is just another form of extremism and only creates resentment and pushback.
I'm skeptical of this claim. You pose all this as if the tendency to rage about popular culture is the sole provenance of people that are critical of traditional themes--and not at all a constant among all political orientations. Observe the obsession with bringing up woke and dei, all that dumbfuck terminology, whenever someone talks about Bioware, or goodness gracious gives a decent subjective valuation of one of their games.
You can't avoid politics by asserting that you choose not to be political. That declaration in itself is political. Of course it would be great if we could just all get along and let creators express themselves without the pressure of considering every possibility of offense. But what is so often missed in these types of conversations is that so many of us consider that their well-being, and even survival, is at stake, and are obviously not quite so concerned with the artistic integrity of tv shows and video games.
That is completely irrelevant and way to ignore the rest of my post. Gaming used to be free of politics- Games were just made to be fun. Fantasy and Sci-Fi isn't the real world. It supposed to be an escape from everyday madness and reality!
Now, gaming has been dragged into Politics and if a (RPG) game doesn't have a gay, trans and a correct "proportioned" female representation, then that game and its creators are getting character assassinated by sites like Kotaku for being homophobes, anti-woke and what not. Like what happened to Space Marine 2 recently. The devs of Space Marine 2 just tried to stay true to decades of established Warhammer Lore, fulfill the IP contract requirements of GW and just tried to make a game that is fun and free of politics. As result, sites like Kotaku went on a character assassination crusade against the CEO of this studio! Outraged that Space Marine 2 is so massively popular and only contained male genetically enhanced super soldiers. Clearly not bothered to read nor care to understand decades of established lore, 100+ popular Black library books spanning 30 years and tabletop games that millions of male and female fans enjoy world wide. Not understanding that Space Marines are just one faction in this far future existence that is extremely rich in Lore spanning many factions, including some seriously bad-ass female only factions, female inquisitors, female Navy fleet admirals and so on.... /shrug
Space Marine 2 is literally a sequel to the popular Space Marine 1 game from over a decade ago, when it wasn't an issue, as games weren't politicized yet back then.
This is what I mean, that the world today has become absolutely nuts! This has nothing to do anymore with inclusion, diversity and acceptance. These are extremist zealots that have gone too far, do it for clicks to generate traffic to their sites and actually causing a lot of harm to the "real" LGBTQ cause and only giving fuel to the anti-Woke/extreme right movement.
They are literally suffocating Artistry and creativity! Gaming Studios and Film Studios are now terrified and playing everything extremely safe, as to not accidently hurt someone's feelings and trigger a media outrage that can literally put them out of business!
Dragon Age: Veilguard is literally the latest example of everything that has gone wrong today. It's the epitome of playing it safe to the extreme.
It's just sad you can't seem to understand what is happening and why it's currently throwing fuel on the fire for the extreme right movement, like you now see happening in the US and also in parts of Europe.
You should watch the new documentary called "Ibelin", which is now streaming on Netflix. It's a heart-breaking documentary, but it shows what true roleplay used to be about and how gamers just used their imagination, connected via social interaction tools, etc. Completely free of politics.
JeroKane said:I am all about inclusion, diversity, etc. But what's happening now is just plain wrong, is just another form of extremism and only creates resentment and pushback.
I'm skeptical of this claim. You pose all this as if the tendency to rage about popular culture is the sole provenance of people that are critical of traditional themes--and not at all a constant among all political orientations. Observe the obsession with bringing up woke and dei, all that dumbfuck terminology, whenever someone talks about Bioware, or goodness gracious gives a decent subjective valuation of one of their games.
You can't avoid politics by asserting that you choose not to be political. That declaration in itself is political. Of course it would be great if we could just all get along and let creators express themselves without the pressure of considering every possibility of offense. But what is so often missed in these types of conversations is that so many of us consider that their well-being, and even survival, is at stake, and are obviously not quite so concerned with the artistic integrity of tv shows and video games.
That is completely irrelevant and way to ignore the rest of my post. Gaming used to be free of politics- Games were just made to be fun. Fantasy and Sci-Fi isn't the real world. It supposed to be an escape from everyday madness and reality!
Now, gaming has been dragged into Politics and if a (RPG) game doesn't have a gay, trans and a correct "proportioned" female representation, then that game and its creators are getting character assassinated by sites like Kotaku for being homophobes, anti-woke and what not. Like what happened to Space Marine 2 recently. The devs of Space Marine 2 just tried to stay true to decades of established Warhammer Lore, fulfill the IP contract requirements of GW and just tried to make a game that is fun and free of politics. As result, sites like Kotaku went on a character assassination crusade against the CEO of this studio! Outraged that Space Marine 2 is so massively popular and only contained male genetically enhanced super soldiers. Clearly not bothered to read nor care to understand decades of established lore, 100+ popular Black library books spanning 30 years and tabletop games that millions of male and female fans enjoy world wide.
Space Marine 2 is literally a sequel to the popular Space Marine 1 game from over a decade ago, when it wasn't an issue, as games weren't politicized yet back then.
This is what I mean, that the world today has become absolutely nuts! This has nothing to do anymore with inclusion, diversity and acceptance. These are extremist zealots that have gone too far, do it for clicks to generate traffic to their sites and actually causing a lot of harm to the "real" LGBTQ cause and only giving fuel to the anti-Woke/extreme right movement.
They are literally suffocating Artistry and creativity! Gaming Studios and Film Studios are now terrified and playing everything extremely safe, as to not accidently hurt someone's feelings and trigger a media outrage that can literally put them out of business!
Dragon Age: Veilguard is literally the latest example of everything that has gone wrong today. It's the epitome of playing it safe to the extreme.
It's just sad you can't seem to understand what is happening and why it's currently throwing fuel on the fire for the extreme right movement, like you now see happening in the US and also in parts of Europe.
You should watch the new documentary called "Ibelin", which is now streaming on Netflix. It's a heart-breaking documentary, but it shows what true roleplay used to be about and how gamers just used their imagination. Free of politics.
Most of the best games of all time are political, and in fact, progressive. Dragon Age and Mass Effect were among the first LGBT-inclusive games. Final Fantasy 7 has you play as a plucky young group of eco-terrorists. Deus Ex, and cyberpunk in general are the result of capitalism gone horribly wrong. The Witcher places its sympathies firmly with witches, mutants, and friendly monsters resisting religious extremism and persecution.
Games have always been political, and never on your side. You just don't see it, because conservatives are not intelligent people and have zero media literacy.
JeroKane said:I am all about inclusion, diversity, etc. But what's happening now is just plain wrong, is just another form of extremism and only creates resentment and pushback.
I'm skeptical of this claim. You pose all this as if the tendency to rage about popular culture is the sole provenance of people that are critical of traditional themes--and not at all a constant among all political orientations. Observe the obsession with bringing up woke and dei, all that dumbfuck terminology, whenever someone talks about Bioware, or goodness gracious gives a decent subjective valuation of one of their games.
You can't avoid politics by asserting that you choose not to be political. That declaration in itself is political. Of course it would be great if we could just all get along and let creators express themselves without the pressure of considering every possibility of offense. But what is so often missed in these types of conversations is that so many of us consider that their well-being, and even survival, is at stake, and are obviously not quite so concerned with the artistic integrity of tv shows and video games.
That is completely irrelevant and way to ignore the rest of my post. Gaming used to be free of politics- Games were just made to be fun. Fantasy and Sci-Fi isn't the real world. It supposed to be an escape from everyday madness and reality!
Now, gaming has been dragged into Politics and if a (RPG) game doesn't have a gay, trans and a correct "proportioned" female representation, then that game and its creators are getting character assassinated by sites like Kotaku for being homophobes, anti-woke and what not. Like what happened to Space Marine 2 recently. The devs of Space Marine 2 just tried to stay true to decades of established Warhammer Lore, fulfill the IP contract requirements of GW and just tried to make a game that is fun and free of politics. As result, sites like Kotaku went on a character assassination crusade against the CEO of this studio! Outraged that Space Marine 2 is so massively popular and only contained male genetically enhanced super soldiers. Clearly not bothered to read nor care to understand decades of established lore, 100+ popular Black library books spanning 30 years and tabletop games that millions of male and female fans enjoy world wide.
Space Marine 2 is literally a sequel to the popular Space Marine 1 game from over a decade ago, when it wasn't an issue, as games weren't politicized yet back then.
This is what I mean, that the world today has become absolutely nuts! This has nothing to do anymore with inclusion, diversity and acceptance. These are extremist zealots that have gone too far, do it for clicks to generate traffic to their sites and actually causing a lot of harm to the "real" LGBTQ cause and only giving fuel to the anti-Woke/extreme right movement.
They are literally suffocating Artistry and creativity! Gaming Studios and Film Studios are now terrified and playing everything extremely safe, as to not accidently hurt someone's feelings and trigger a media outrage that can literally put them out of business!
Dragon Age: Veilguard is literally the latest example of everything that has gone wrong today. It's the epitome of playing it safe to the extreme.
It's just sad you can't seem to understand what is happening and why it's currently throwing fuel on the fire for the extreme right movement, like you now see happening in the US and also in parts of Europe.
You should watch the new documentary called "Ibelin", which is now streaming on Netflix. It's a heart-breaking documentary, but it shows what true roleplay used to be about and how gamers just used their imagination. Free of politics.
Most of the best games of all time are political, and in fact, progressive. Dragon Age and Mass Effect were among the first LGBT-inclusivw games. Final Fantasy 7 has you play as a plucky young group of eco-terrorists. Deus Ex, and cyberpunk in general are the result of capitalism gone horribly wrong. The Witcher places its sympathies firmly with witches, mutants, and friendly monsters resisting religious extremism and persecution.
Games have always been political, and never on your side. You just don't see it, because conservatives are not intelligent people and have zero media literacy.
Exactly. but Tongue in cheek politics in the game's Sci-Fi or fantasy narrative... bit of a nuance there. Not real life politics nor making any real life statements!
These games were inclusive in the right way. The stories were original and felt right. Not FORCED! They were LGBTQ inclusive, because they wanted to be and made it organically fit into the game, without it feeling FORCED and into your face. It didn't distract from the main story, which was dark and gritty!
The original ME trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Cyberpunk 2077 are among my most favorite games.
Same with Horizon Zero Dawn, with a sole female lead character. Amazing game. It was original and the female character was amazingly written. Really enjoyed that game's story (though the gameplay became a bit repetitive further in).
My point is, that respect for existing lore and artistic freedom is eroding! Certain politics are being forced and need to be adhered to or you risk being put out of business. That is just wrong and unnecessary.
You can't just pick up an existing IP, like Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time, The Witcher or Warhammer and then disrespect it because these IP's doesn't happen to have any "specific" characters or genders in specific factions. Amazon and Netflix, looking at you.
Then don't pick up said IP and instead create something original, that fits your political agenda and vision.
But if a film or game studio wants to create something out of existing IP's and want to respect it, why are they not allowed to stay true to the Lore? Why do sites like Kotaku and certain media (and influential people) feel like they need to go on a character assassination crusade against these studio's, because they like a very popular existing IP and just want to make a film or game from it and respect the Authors and the lore?
That's what I have a problem with. As it's literally also destroying creativity and artistic freedom. Like I said, Major game and film studios are terrified now today. How can you say that is good and positive? Why does every single game and film now needs to have LGBTQ representation? Even if it doesn't fit in the story?
Why can't there be a variation. You know, artistic and creative freedom?
Is Horizon Zero Dawn suddenly a terrible game, because you could only play as a female character? Should the studio have been character assassinated and put out of business because of it?
Games have always been political, and never on your side. You just don't see it, because conservatives are not intelligent people and have zero media literacy.
There is no excuse for prejudging groups of people as opposed to individuals. I can assure you that some conservatives are intelligent people. Some are not. Some liberals are intelligent people. Some are not. Some people hate both and are still intelligent.
Let’s treat people like individuals.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Gaming used to be free of politics- Games were just made to be fun. Fantasy and Sci-Fi isn't the real world. It supposed to be an escape from everyday madness and reality!
As Aeander pointed out, this is simply false. Moreover, I don't think that I'm alone in finding games as fun as ever, and capable of providing escape regardless of politics. You sure you aren't spending too much time reading youtube comments or something. Happens to most of us nowadays, no shame, but the world can seem quite bleak when we over-consume social media opinions.
Exactly. but Tongue in cheek politics in the game's Sci-Fi or fantasy narrative... bit of a nuance there. Not real life politics nor making any real life statements!
These games were inclusive in the right way. The stories were original and felt right. Not FORCED! They were LGBTQ inclusive, because they wanted to be and made it organically fit into the game, without it feeling FORCED and into your face. It didn't distract from the main story, which was dark and gritty!
The original ME trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Cyberpunk 2077 are among my most favorite games.
Your impressions of the before times are subjective. For what it's worth, however, I actually agree with you if you're saying that post-ME3 Bioware is not great. I didn't like DA:I, ME:A, Anthem, and I don't believe that I would care for Veilguard either. But this has nothing to do with being political; Bioware actually lost many writers that were enthusiastic about including lgbtq+ themes. Excellent writers like David Gaider, mastermind of the greatness of Origins writing.
Is Horizon Zero Dawn suddenly a terrible game, because you could only play as a female character? Should the studio have been character assassinated and put out of business because of it?
Just asking...
You surely are not unaware that very thing happened, right? I just can't believe you missed all the hate levelled against that game and it's protagonist--because she didn't appeal to the incel gaze. It makes me suspicious that all this fuss you're making is simply that you don't like gay people and think that they should stay as far away from your awareness as possible, for reasons.
If I'm inferring something about you that's not there I apologize. But I don't have the patience to put up with bigotry, and you're treading a fine line with your way of casting all of this.
I read another review that talked about how much playing as a mage was awful but rogue was great. I'm more of a mage-type myself so I'm going to give it a few months and we'll see if BW can make mages not suck.
Didn't read most of this. My problem with decent-good AA/AAA games nowadays is the huge lack of decent games. Sure it might fail in terms of studio pedigree, but there really isn't much competition now. A million more games, but the game in the genre you want, that's actually serviceable.......... Even worse is release schedules. I might go 6 months with NOTHING I can find to do, and in one month, the amount of releases dwarf my paycheck.
Comments
I wonder if that is due to the "newness" of the franchise on console vs PC, it playing better on a controller, or just different biases of the various groups.
Of course, it's a relatively small sample size so this could change... but I did find it interesting.
PS- Also interesting that as of now 51 reviews were from PS5, 23 PC and 5 XBOX...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Dragon Age: Inquisition 8.6
ME Andromeda 8.7
Anthem 6.5
ME Legendary Edition 9.0
Of course they knew that the game would be given a good score on this site, considering how that flop that even they abandoned (Anthem) was considered an above average or "good/okay" game and not just a 5 (passable) or less. This just kind of proves what the other guy said about review codes being carefully sent. They don't need to pay you directly or even intimidate you to review the game in a certain way, since they had that historical record to be almost certain about the game receiving a certain score due to the general taste or views of the reviewers. That's what "cherry picking" who they sent the codes to means.
Note how I'm not accusing you of anything. Every person has different tastes, and that's okay (as long as personal views don't get in the way of giving a professional review *cough*IGN*cough*). But what we're discussing here is if critic scores can be taken as gospel or if more often than not they've not been representing what the actual audiences like or want since several years ago. Especially given how game studios try to manipulate one way or another the reviews, making the gap between the surviving professional critics and the audience wider.
As it stands, given what we know, I'm certain that the game will certainly not be considered an 8.8 by the general audience. But, as I said earlier, time will tell.
Just see what happened to the CEO, that posted a comment under AsmonGold's youtube video about why Space Marine 2 is such a success, where he wrote that they wanted to stay true to the lore, keep politics out of it and just make a fun game people want to play.
Immediately after that youtube comment was posted, sites like Kotaku went after the CEO in a character assassination crusade. They are even going after Henry Cavil now, because he is trying to block Amazon, who continues pressing GW for allowing female Space Marines.
That's the world we live in today and where we heading. I am all about inclusion, diversity, etc. But what's happening now is just plain wrong, is just another form of extremism and only creates resentment and pushback.
For example, TV series like Game of Thrones won't be greenlit anymore today. If they had delayed it by just a couple years before pitching the idea of the TV series at studios it would have never happened and seen the light of day. It would have been a total outrage in the media. In worse case, it would have ignored over half the lore in the books, removed any stuff that might be offending and turned it into something completely unrecognizable like Amazon did with Rings of Power and Wheel of Time or Netflix tried to do with The Witcher, where Netflix writers openly mocked and ridiculed the Author of the Witcher books.
This drift it noticeable in any organisation or system that gives awards from gaming reviews, to TV Show awards to the Olympics.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
Scores are subjective. I'd have scored it a 7. Because it had peak gunplay. Because traversal was fun. Because it had one of, if not the, best visual wardrobe features ever made. There was something worth saving there, and I frankly would have preferred to live in a world where it was still getting updated.
There might still be folks giving lower reviews more in line with the audience expectations, but you can see why they're lower in number or just do post launch reviews. As someone else explained better than I would, those are a just a few that are able to survive to the unfair competition.
And, no, professional scores should try to stay away as much as possible from being subjective. Or at least there should be a wide array of professional critics with different views and tastes able to offer customers a varied glimpse of what the game (or product) is like. But, unlike with user scores, that doesn't currently exist neither in the gaming industry or the entertainment industry in general. And that's why there's often a gap between critics and the audience, as I said.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You can't avoid politics by asserting that you choose not to be political. That declaration in itself is political. Of course it would be great if we could just all get along and let creators express themselves without the pressure of considering every possibility of offense. But what is so often missed in these types of conversations is that so many of us consider that their well-being, and even survival, is at stake, and are obviously not quite so concerned with the artistic integrity of tv shows and video games.
I fell in love with Dragon Age Origins because of its dark setting and impactful choices. The shit I saw in those dwarven mines literally gave me nightmares. Losing companions due to poor choices in DA2 was brutal. While maybe not quite as dark, the world building and open nature of DAI was excellent.
I don't feel any of that watching gameplay of Veilguard.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Games were just made to be fun.
Fantasy and Sci-Fi isn't the real world. It supposed to be an escape from everyday madness and reality!
Now, gaming has been dragged into Politics and if a (RPG) game doesn't have a gay, trans and a correct "proportioned" female representation, then that game and its creators are getting character assassinated by sites like Kotaku for being homophobes, anti-woke and what not. Like what happened to Space Marine 2 recently.
The devs of Space Marine 2 just tried to stay true to decades of established Warhammer Lore, fulfill the IP contract requirements of GW and just tried to make a game that is fun and free of politics.
As result, sites like Kotaku went on a character assassination crusade against the CEO of this studio!
Outraged that Space Marine 2 is so massively popular and only contained male genetically enhanced super soldiers. Clearly not bothered to read nor care to understand decades of established lore, 100+ popular Black library books spanning 30 years and tabletop games that millions of male and female fans enjoy world wide.
Not understanding that Space Marines are just one faction in this far future existence that is extremely rich in Lore spanning many factions, including some seriously bad-ass female only factions, female inquisitors, female Navy fleet admirals and so on.... /shrug
Space Marine 2 is literally a sequel to the popular Space Marine 1 game from over a decade ago, when it wasn't an issue, as games weren't politicized yet back then.
This is what I mean, that the world today has become absolutely nuts! This has nothing to do anymore with inclusion, diversity and acceptance.
These are extremist zealots that have gone too far, do it for clicks to generate traffic to their sites and actually causing a lot of harm to the "real" LGBTQ cause and only giving fuel to the anti-Woke/extreme right movement.
They are literally suffocating Artistry and creativity! Gaming Studios and Film Studios are now terrified and playing everything extremely safe, as to not accidently hurt someone's feelings and trigger a media outrage that can literally put them out of business!
Dragon Age: Veilguard is literally the latest example of everything that has gone wrong today. It's the epitome of playing it safe to the extreme.
It's just sad you can't seem to understand what is happening and why it's currently throwing fuel on the fire for the extreme right movement, like you now see happening in the US and also in parts of Europe.
You should watch the new documentary called "Ibelin", which is now streaming on Netflix.
It's a heart-breaking documentary, but it shows what true roleplay used to be about and how gamers just used their imagination, connected via social interaction tools, etc. Completely free of politics.
Games have always been political, and never on your side. You just don't see it, because conservatives are not intelligent people and have zero media literacy.
These games were inclusive in the right way. The stories were original and felt right. Not FORCED!
They were LGBTQ inclusive, because they wanted to be and made it organically fit into the game, without it feeling FORCED and into your face. It didn't distract from the main story, which was dark and gritty!
The original ME trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Cyberpunk 2077 are among my most favorite games.
Same with Horizon Zero Dawn, with a sole female lead character. Amazing game. It was original and the female character was amazingly written. Really enjoyed that game's story (though the gameplay became a bit repetitive further in).
My point is, that respect for existing lore and artistic freedom is eroding! Certain politics are being forced and need to be adhered to or you risk being put out of business. That is just wrong and unnecessary.
You can't just pick up an existing IP, like Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time, The Witcher or Warhammer and then disrespect it because these IP's doesn't happen to have any "specific" characters or genders in specific factions. Amazon and Netflix, looking at you.
Then don't pick up said IP and instead create something original, that fits your political agenda and vision.
But if a film or game studio wants to create something out of existing IP's and want to respect it, why are they not allowed to stay true to the Lore?
Why do sites like Kotaku and certain media (and influential people) feel like they need to go on a character assassination crusade against these studio's, because they like a very popular existing IP and just want to make a film or game from it and respect the Authors and the lore?
That's what I have a problem with. As it's literally also destroying creativity and artistic freedom. Like I said, Major game and film studios are terrified now today. How can you say that is good and positive?
Why does every single game and film now needs to have LGBTQ representation? Even if it doesn't fit in the story?
Why can't there be a variation. You know, artistic and creative freedom?
Is Horizon Zero Dawn suddenly a terrible game, because you could only play as a female character? Should the studio have been character assassinated and put out of business because of it?
Just asking...
Let’s treat people like individuals.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Your impressions of the before times are subjective. For what it's worth, however, I actually agree with you if you're saying that post-ME3 Bioware is not great. I didn't like DA:I, ME:A, Anthem, and I don't believe that I would care for Veilguard either. But this has nothing to do with being political; Bioware actually lost many writers that were enthusiastic about including lgbtq+ themes. Excellent writers like David Gaider, mastermind of the greatness of Origins writing.
You surely are not unaware that very thing happened, right? I just can't believe you missed all the hate levelled against that game and it's protagonist--because she didn't appeal to the incel gaze. It makes me suspicious that all this fuss you're making is simply that you don't like gay people and think that they should stay as far away from your awareness as possible, for reasons.
If I'm inferring something about you that's not there I apologize. But I don't have the patience to put up with bigotry, and you're treading a fine line with your way of casting all of this.