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Dragon Age: The Veilguard Review - The Magic is Back in BioWare's Latest RPG | MMORPG.com

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  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    edited October 31
    lahnmir said:

    You mean the same Skill Up that was immediately labeled Shill Up by a part of the gaming community after giving Ubi’s Outlaws a good review? That Skill Up? A large number of gamers will, without a second thought, betray any and everything that doesn’t align with their own views.

    And I agree, it is shocking to see a director bending the knee to please a vocal minority of people, they can do whatever the hell they want with a franchise (and face good or bad sales as a consequence since that is the only metric that counts). I understand them mentioning ME as it has a much more coherent art direction then the DA series, departure from that would actually be shocking. I also find it shocking to see that the status quo apparently is that professional reviews can’t be trusted, as if independent reviewers aren’t 100% trying to generate as much traffic as possible and outrage/offense/critique is the easiest way to achieve that. I won’t even get into the absolute cesspool that is player reviews these days. Just pick your poison really.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir

    Star Wars Outlaws is actually a pretty good game. Story and dialog wise. Though, it unfortunately really feels like an Assassin's Creed game in a Star Wars jacket due to the over-used stealth missions in the game.
    But that shouldn't have come to a shocker to anyone, since it's an Ubisoft game and it was already pretty clear in early footage for anyone that followed development.

    But yeah, maybe that Skill Up review gave EA assurance that they would give a glowing review of Veilguard as well.

    And the Mass Effect director is not bending the knee to a vocal minority. He trying to save his project and trying to assure Mass Effect fans, who are expecting him to follow up on his promise to go back to Mass Effect's roots and stick to the mature theme.

    If EA wasn't being EA by trying to scam customers in trying to skew the early reviews to being overly suspiciously positive, which is now, rightfully so, blowing up in their faces! AGAIN!

    Then this director didn't had to come out and post on X to protect his project and assure Mass Effect fans.

    And why wouldn't Mass Effect fans allowed to be worried, after seeing what has now happened to the Dragon Age franchise?

    I mean, you are right. Game studios can do whatever they want to do. Take any direction they want to take. Doesn't mean we have to like it, keep quiet and not allowed to voice our dislike and disappointment of said direction of a franchise we enjoy and love.

    Peace out.
    Post edited by JeroKane on
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,060
    edited October 31
    Gorwe said:
    Honestly? Were Origins good to begin with?
    Gameplay-wise, no. Polish/bugs wise, absolutely not. Visually, not really. In terms of story, characters, and meaningful choice? Absolutely, 100% yes.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,650
    lahnmir said:

    And I agree, it is shocking to see a director bending the knee to please a vocal minority of people
    Not sure where you’ve been the last 15 years but this has been the standard. Directors, producers, companies and even whole industries have been bending the knee to a very vocal minority of people. 

    Many folks only seem to notice it’s driven by the “vocal minority” when it’s a group that they dont identify with.

    i gotta tell you, over the last 15 years I have seen a lot of crazy shit driven by multiple “vocal minorities”

    Sovrath

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • ArchonoirArchonoir Newbie CommonPosts: 2
    Vinnyz said:
    I'll wait 6 months and buy for 20 bucks, can't give more for a game with woke disease.

    Don't give them shit. They don't deserve a tenth of a cent. They absolutely ruined Dragon Age, turning it in to this bubble gum pop agenda seeding, propaganda sim. You can't be mean to NPCs and especially to Taashi or whatever her name is. It's slop.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    edited October 31
    You do have to factor in both sides of this, rave reviews which don't match what you can see in a video to independent reviewers trashing a game while showing little evidence for more clicks.

    I do have three observations, firstly those guys doing the rave reviews want clicks too, it works both ways. 

    There is no such think as a trusted industry or independent reviewer. Putting shenanigans aside, reviewers are not you, their opinions will not always match yours even if they nearly always do. Broaden your methodology when looking to see if a game is for you.

    Trashing a game may mean a game is bad, raving about a game may mean a game is good, once again you have to look deeper.

    JeroKaneDodgybloke
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,150
    Watching the fextralife video and its pretty damning about EA/Bioware curating early reviews. This thing is blowing up in EA's face.
    YashaX
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • HerithiusHerithius Member UncommonPosts: 277
    It's interesting to see so much anti-studio sentiment erupt this last decade.  Whether it's Bioware, Bethesda, EA, Blizzard or Ubisoft to name a few. Usually the remarks include the team isn't what it used to be, all the real talent has gone, etc.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    edited October 31
    Herithius said:
    It's interesting to see so much anti-studio sentiment erupt this last decade.  Whether it's Bioware, Bethesda, EA, Blizzard or Ubisoft to name a few. Usually the remarks include the team isn't what it used to be, all the real talent has gone, etc.

    Well, maybe there is actually something to it?

    This is what happens when bean counters (aka big investors) and people with political agenda's take over these big studios and decide what kind of games to make, what needs to be in it and how much they can fleece their customers and empty their wallets.

    These people, I can guarantee you, don't even play video games and literally don't understand why we play games in the first place. They just listen to journalists that don't spend any money.

    We gamers like to be entertained and have fun. Find a little escape from our every day life and immerse ourselves in a fantasy world.

    For example:  The last thing I want as a gamer, when booting up a game is having a Battle Pass screen or Cash Shop shoved into my face the very first second I hit the login or start button. Especially when I just spend a friggin'  70+ bucks on it!

    Nor do I expect a beloved franchise that is Dark Fantasy, with a very dark and gritty world with rich mature RPG gameplay with excellent story, dialog and choices that matter..... suddenly see turned into a Pixar kiddie animation game, with insultingly childish dialog where choices have been taken away from us and no longer matter.



    Post edited by JeroKane on
    Asm0deus
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    edited October 31
    Cohh just put up his first 2 videos. Even though he is sponsored first 2 hours or so, he doesn't hold back his opinion or disappointments.

    Of course, if you plan to buy this game and don't want to be spoiled, then obviously don't click on the video.



    SovrathYashaX
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    edited October 31
    Herithius said:
    It's interesting to see so much anti-studio sentiment erupt this last decade.  Whether it's Bioware, Bethesda, EA, Blizzard or Ubisoft to name a few. Usually the remarks include the team isn't what it used to be, all the real talent has gone, etc.

    Studios have become increasingly run by execs and not the developers, that trend started in the early days but when gaming became the biggest entertainment industry it accelerated. That's half the story.

    But in gaming it always takes two to tango, studios and players. Players are incredibly unforgiving of a single failure, my guess is that's because they paid top dollar for something that was poor. Maybe the reason why I say "take each title as it comes out, ignore the studio and the previous franchise titles" is because I don't do pre-orders, early access etc. You can see how those players will feel they have been burnt.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,052
    edited November 1
    JeroKane said:
    Cohh just put up his first video. Even though he is sponsored first 2 hours or so, he doesn't hold back his opinion or disappointments.



    Not doubting the good, bad and ugly of Veilguard but you do realize all the YouTubers you post video’s from are just as dishonest as all the sponsored and paid ones right (if that is what is actually happening because I do have doubts about that)? Its all about maximum engagement and traffic, gained easiest by maximum outrage, being offended etc. for these guys. All reviews, from all groups, positive or negative, are to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, they are all dishonest to a certain degree. The one thing making that difficult for us to recognize is confirmation bias, we somewhat automatically think the reviews that align with our own views are better then others. They are all equally worthless, all of them. 

    Make up your own mind, rage into the dying night, do whatever you want, love the faultiest of games to death, hate the best game ever, embrace what is and not what isn’t, do you, not what others tell you to. Not directed at you btw but people in general. Play a bloody game, then judge. I know I do, I would have missed tons of gems otherwise, the occasional stinker too. And yes, I will be playing Outlaws, and DA Veilguard, at a some point in the future.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Post edited by lahnmir on
    maskedweaselSovrathcheyaneAsm0deusMrMelGibson
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    edited October 31
    lahnmir said:

    Not doubting the good, bad and ugly of Vanguard but you do realize all the YouTubers you post video’s from are just as dishonest as all the sponsored and paid ones right (if that is what is actually happening because I do have doubts about that)? Its all about maximum engagement and traffic, gained easiest by maximum outrage, being offended etc. for these guys. All reviews, from all groups, positive or negative, are to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, they are all dishonest to a certain degree. The one thing making that difficult for us to recognize is confirmation bias, we somewhat automatically think the reviews that align with our own views are better then others. They are all equally worthless, all of them. 

    Make up your own mind, rage into the dying night, do whatever you want, love the faultiest of games to death, hate the best game ever, embrace what is and not what isn’t, do you, not what others tell you to. Not directed at you btw but people in general. Play a bloody game, then judge. I know I do, I would have missed tons of gems otherwise, the occasional stinker too. And yes, I will be playing Outlaws, and DA Vanguard, at a some point in the future.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    He is literally playing the game. So you can literally see what the game is, how it is, how the characters and animations look like, the story and dialog, with no deceptive editing like in review videos, etc...

    You don't need to listen to the actual opinions of these youtubers, just see them play a part of the game (it's like you would before when games had free demos) and then make up your own mind if the game is worth spending your hard earned money on.
    YashaXScotAsm0deusuriel_mafessTacticalZombeh
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    JeroKane said:
    lahnmir said:

    Not doubting the good, bad and ugly of Vanguard but you do realize all the YouTubers you post video’s from are just as dishonest as all the sponsored and paid ones right (if that is what is actually happening because I do have doubts about that)? Its all about maximum engagement and traffic, gained easiest by maximum outrage, being offended etc. for these guys. All reviews, from all groups, positive or negative, are to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, they are all dishonest to a certain degree. The one thing making that difficult for us to recognize is confirmation bias, we somewhat automatically think the reviews that align with our own views are better then others. They are all equally worthless, all of them. 

    Make up your own mind, rage into the dying night, do whatever you want, love the faultiest of games to death, hate the best game ever, embrace what is and not what isn’t, do you, not what others tell you to. Not directed at you btw but people in general. Play a bloody game, then judge. I know I do, I would have missed tons of gems otherwise, the occasional stinker too. And yes, I will be playing Outlaws, and DA Vanguard, at a some point in the future.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    He is literally playing the game. So you can literally see what the game is, how it is, how the characters and animations look like, the story and dialog, with no deceptive editing like in review videos, etc...

    You don't need to listen to the actual opinions of these youtubers, just see them play a part of the game (it's like you would before when games had free demos) and then make up your own mind if the game is worth spending your hard earned money on.
    The problem is, people seem to just want to reaffirm their opinions. Nobody has to buy the game, and it's easy to watch other people stream and play it. But it's also incredibly stupid how much hate people have for games leading up to release. I've seen reddit threads completely composed of people hating on this game just because one part of the storyline hurts their sensibilities. It has nothing to do with how the characters look or the dialog both I don't think are all that bad. Some of the early dialog I've seen has been pretty good, some not so great. 

    But seriously the review bombing is abysmal just because of a storyline most people who even play the game wouldn't have encountered yet. I think the game is good. People don't have to enjoy it. But that's not what's happening here. People who never intended to play it are still attempting to attack it, and only coopt other opinions when it suits them. 

    Is this game Baldurs gate 3? No. But its still fun. 
    SovrathYashaX



  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 1,609
    edited October 31
    Problem: You can't try the game out without supporting these hack devs. And their brilliant ideas

    Solution: Better grab a bottle of rum!
    YashaX
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    edited November 1
    Gorwe said:
    Problem: You can't try the game out without supporting these hack devs. And their brilliant ideas

    Solution: Better grab a bottle of rum!

    I just watched Cohh play yesterday evening.  8 videos so far. So close to 3 - 3 1/2 hours of gameplay give or take.

    You can see from video 6 that things start to grate on him and first signs of frustration kicking in.

    The world design is great, the characters are just Pixar / Disney looking and just don't fit. The facial animations are weird and often out of sync or not able to keep up with the Voice actor. This is really an immersion killer in my opinion.

    The dialog and writing is just as we feared. All over the place and seriously weird and stupid at times and very restrictive dialog options.
    Like we being lectured like little toddlers on our first days at school.
    Another real immersion killer in my opinion.
    Post edited by JeroKane on
    TerazonAsm0deusYashaX
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    edited November 1
    JeroKane said:
    Gorwe said:
    Problem: You can't try the game out without supporting these hack devs. And their brilliant ideas

    Solution: Better grab a bottle of rum!

    I just watched Cohh play yesterday evening.  8 videos so far. So close to 3 - 3 1/2 hours of gameplay give or take.

    You can see from video 6 that things start to grate on him and first signs of frustration kicking in.

    The world design is great, the characters are just Pixar / Disney looking and just don't fit. The facial animations are weird and often out of sync or not able to keep up with the Voice actor. This is really an immersion killer in my opinion.

    The dialog and writing is just as we feared. All over the place and seriously weird and stupid at times and very restrictive dialog options.
    Like we being lectured like little toddlers on a first days at school.
    Another real immersion killer in my opinion.
    If anyone thinks these videos are biased, either way my suggestion is turn off the sound and subtitles and just watch the footage. I did not do that for the videos I watched but I can't see how I would have come to anything other than a poor opinion of the game.

    Also the game currently has an 84 at Metacritic, but when some critics give a game 100 and others give it 60, you really need to look into it before you buy. DA:VG is not the only AAA game to have such wildly different scores mind you.
    Terazonuriel_mafess
  • harken33harken33 Member UncommonPosts: 305

    Steam reviews seem Mostly Positive with about 4K reviews collected currently.

    Some folks played this for 15-16 hours already, I cant even fathom playing that long a stretch anymore in a day, I have EverQuest PTSD.

    For the negative reviews outside of atmosphere / art / story / writing complaints etc the technical complaints seem light.

    Steam Deck users, although the game is verified to run on Steam Deck it is having issues with FPS and crashes (probably be addressed in patches).

    Some Direct X issues for some users, with posted fixes which seems the norm these days.

    Apparently, you can’t rebind movement to the Up / Down arrow keys as they are locked, maybe this will be changed as well.


  • TerazonTerazon Member RarePosts: 422
    It is sitting at a Mostly Positive rating on Steam with almost 4,000 reviews. Sounds in line with the 79 to 80 score it seems to be at. I am more than fine with that score for a game. I think some people are getting a little too granular and judgy. Seems weird to me. 
    Play the game or not. 
    That is really the only two options that matter. 
    Pick one and lean into it.  
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    Terazon said:
    It is sitting at a Mostly Positive rating on Steam with almost 4,000 reviews. Sounds in line with the 79 to 80 score it seems to be at. I am more than fine with that score for a game. I think some people are getting a little too granular and judgy. Seems weird to me. 
    Play the game or not. 
    That is really the only two options that matter. 
    Pick one and lean into it.  

    At least it's not being review bombed, so that's good. As review bombing is just idiotic and not helping.

    We will have to wait till most of these people have played beyond the first couple hours and got out of the tutorial phase and then see where the final user reviews land on after some time.

    When I was watching the first 3-4 videos of Cohh (which is like the first 2-3 hours), I was actually surprised at first and it actually didn't look to be bad, including the dialog. The character design is bad either way though, but overall the game looked alright and started to think most of the negativity was maybe overblown and the game wasn't too bad after all.

    But then from around video 5, when more characters were introduced and we got out of the tutorial zone.... things quickly changed for the worse.
    More and more nonsensical or downright childish dialog started creeping in. Outright childish lecturing in a way. The issues with facial animations started to become really apparent as well.

    And it seems, that it's only going to get worse from here on out, the further we get into the game.

    Another idiotic design decision is the companions not having a health bar anymore and are basically immortal/unkillable and able to draw aggro away. 
    That is some serious step back for this genre and bad case of dumbing down and streamlining that was just unnecessary.
    It just takes any tactical play (which many people enjoyed) away from the game and you can practically just let your companions draw aggro and go get yourself a drink and some popcorn and let your unkillable companions do all the work for you.
    Can't wait for those videos to start showing up on Youtube. Gonna be fun to watch.... 
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,618
    edited November 1
    Terazon said:
    It is sitting at a Mostly Positive rating on Steam with almost 4,000 reviews. Sounds in line with the 79 to 80 score it seems to be at. I am more than fine with that score for a game. I think some people are getting a little too granular and judgy. Seems weird to me. 
    Play the game or not. 
    That is really the only two options that matter. 
    Pick one and lean into it.  

    lol... you're being too impatient, the general population on metacritic cant even vote yet.  

    Another thing there not lots of people actually playing according to steam unless you think 34k people online is good?

    Havent fact checked anything but I am reading it has had at peak 70k players......that's really not good tbh and tells me it's leaning towards being a huge flop.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,650
    Asm0deus said:
    Terazon said:
    It is sitting at a Mostly Positive rating on Steam with almost 4,000 reviews. Sounds in line with the 79 to 80 score it seems to be at. I am more than fine with that score for a game. I think some people are getting a little too granular and judgy. Seems weird to me. 
    Play the game or not. 
    That is really the only two options that matter. 
    Pick one and lean into it.  

    lol... you're being too impatient, the general population on metacritic cant even vote yet.  

    Another thing there not lots of people actually playing according to steam unless you think 34k people online is good?

    Havent fact checked anything but I am reading it has had at peak 70k players......that's really not good tbh and tells me it's leaning towards being a huge flop.
    Maybe all these changes are really focused on the console crowd?   It seems like their reviews are much more positive than PC ones and more numerous too.  More than double the reviews from console than PC...

    I think that tells you who they designed the game for.

    Sovrathharken33uriel_mafess

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,060
    So, my early impressions were spot on. Combat's good, the skill tree is good, choices aren't up there with Origins but they're better than 2 and Inquisition. The art and tone are more Kingdoms of Amalur than they are Dragon Age and I'm honestly fine with that. It plays smooth, the UI is strong, and the performance/bugs are polished to a mirror shine.

    Honestly, if the game were named Kingdoms of Amalur 2, people would be more openly hyped about it.
    Dodgyblokeuriel_mafessTerazonTacticalZombehYashaXMrMelGibson
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,650
    Aeander said:

    Honestly, if the game were named Kingdoms of Amalur 2, people would be more openly hyped about it.
    I think that's a key point.


    I really REALLY wonder why developers (film AND gaming) want to take an existing property and change it so much that it could more easily identify as a different property...

    But hey, as long as it's not crowdfunded... its their money they are spending...


    GorweYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,060
    Aeander said:

    Honestly, if the game were named Kingdoms of Amalur 2, people would be more openly hyped about it.
    I think that's a key point.


    I really REALLY wonder why developers (film AND gaming) want to take an existing property and change it so much that it could more easily identify as a different property...

    But hey, as long as it's not crowdfunded... its their money they are spending...


    And if that was the tone of the critique, I'd respect it more. But it's not, so I don't.
    uriel_mafess
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,618
    Asm0deus said:
    Terazon said:
    It is sitting at a Mostly Positive rating on Steam with almost 4,000 reviews. Sounds in line with the 79 to 80 score it seems to be at. I am more than fine with that score for a game. I think some people are getting a little too granular and judgy. Seems weird to me. 
    Play the game or not. 
    That is really the only two options that matter. 
    Pick one and lean into it.  

    lol... you're being too impatient, the general population on metacritic cant even vote yet.  

    Another thing there not lots of people actually playing according to steam unless you think 34k people online is good?

    Havent fact checked anything but I am reading it has had at peak 70k players......that's really not good tbh and tells me it's leaning towards being a huge flop.
    Maybe all these changes are really focused on the console crowd?   It seems like their reviews are much more positive than PC ones and more numerous too.  More than double the reviews from console than PC...

    I think that tells you who they designed the game for.


    I havent really looked much into any changes or read many reviews, I just watched a bit of gameplay and just feel the game looks kinda meh but I havent really given it much of look over tbh.

    I am just saying before any side can say it's a flop or huge raging success we might want to give people a chance to actually play the game and make their feelings known.

    I just think a game should have like a week or so before we praise it as a huge success  or not and so far peeps/reviewers are either shilling saying raging success or hating and saying DOA.


    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





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