MMO Friday Fights Round 4: Limited Action Bar Vs. 30 Skill Rotation | MMORPG.com

Comments

• Tiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,485

  November 15

  Don't forget Brighter Shores and it's one skill action bar haha

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• Nosferatupac Member UncommonPosts: 33

  November 15

  I prefer a limited action bar. I do like having the extra utility that can be offered by a larger action bar, but for a lot of games it just leads to redundancy, and I don't really feel like have 8 versions of a fire or lightning spell adds depth to the game play.
  
  A limited skill bar can still offer versatility and I think it can add to the complexity of encounters when I need to select skills that will provide the maximum benefit.
  
  It definitely depends on how the games implement their systems, Everquest 2 is one of my favorite MMO's and Guild Wars 2 is one of my least favorite, so it's not a hard and fast rule for me, but I find the limited skill bar as a concept to be better, it just depends on its execution.
• Scot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423

  November 15

  Skill rotation is more complex, so it got dumbed down, the question is how low can you go. According to Tiller you can go down to one button. Quite ridiculous and we need more not less complexity, players can handle it.
• Aeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,060

  November 15 edited November 15

  So, in pretty much any game, I am looking for a certain minimum amount of mechanical skill required, and little more than that. 5-8 inputs is ideal.
  
  Conversely, I am looking for the absolute maximum amount of intellectual depth. Having to choose which skills go onto a bar of 8 is far more intellectually deep than rotating a bar of 50 skills. Expansive passive skill trees are even more important. With meaningful choices, mind you. Not simple stat buffs.

  
• Nick_Shively Member UncommonPosts: 130

  November 16

  I personally prefer 10-12 skills. There are a lot of games with skill bloat, like FF14 and EQ2. I remember having more than 30 skills that I regularly used in EQ2 and it was ridiculous to keep track of. In FF14, it's more like an 8 skill rotation with 20 CD skills that need to be weaved in. You could technically turn those 8 skills into a single button and nothing would be lost.
• KnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,582

  November 16

  I'm fine with a low to moderate number, but when it gets up to 30 it overwhelms in my case and starts cutting into my enjoyment.
• Scot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423

  November 16

  KnightFalz said:

  I'm fine with a low to moderate number, but when it gets up to 30 it overwhelms in my case and starts cutting into my enjoyment.

  Sure there has to be a limit both ways, you can get too complex. 
• Babuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,462

  November 16

  I like playing casters so I prefer having lot's of skills to choose from and use, including different ranks of same spell (fast cast vs long).
  

  
• Abscissa15 Member UncommonPosts: 70

  November 16

  I have to agree with Babuinix with caster preferences. Ultimately, user-configurable GUI such as Dominos in WoW, fits the bill quite well - configure your own size, placement and composition.
• Angrakhan Member EpicPosts: 1,837

  November 16

  I agree with the author. I prefer the big skill bar. The 30-skill rotation is a bit of hyperbole because in those games you don't have a 30-skill rotation. Your rotation may be 6-8 skills max. Then you have your various utility abilities some of which aren't even for combat such as feather fall, walk on water, or lock picking. It's those non-combat abilities that make the game feel like more of an RPG and less of a combat simulator to me.
• olepi Member EpicPosts: 3,053

  November 16

  I prefer a complex skill set available at all times. A typical loadout might include 2-3 melee attacks, 2-3 range attacks, 2-3 crowd control, 2-3 healing and rez, 2-3 teleport and movement like flying, 2-3 buffing/debuffing skills, and 2-3 utility skills. Add in pet skills that also have melee, range, and buff/debuff skills and you have maybe 20-25 skills that you can use at any one time.
  
  Modern "action" games probably won't work as well with 25 skills, a small subset is probably better and a lot of the skill is in reaction time and not in picking the right skill at the right time.
  
  A good example might be the ice blaster in CoH. There are three different range attacks with increasing dmg, a cone dmg power, two AOE attacks that slow the targets, and two single target holds. CoH has dual classing so an ice/ice blaster has additional powers: two melee dmg attacks, a long range cone CC slow, a ground targeted ice patch that acts as CC, an AOE sleep, and a PBAoe dmg aura. Add in some travel and utility powers and you're at 20 available at any one time.
  
  That character can do range dmg, melee dmg, and crowd control, all with multiple options to choose from. That is my favorite kind of character to play, one with a lot of options.

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• emperorhades1 Member RarePosts: 421

  November 17

  I had fun in ffxi when you had to think about pulls and only use a few buttons. The mobs took a bit long to kill but it slowed the game down to where your goals were micro but meant something when they were achieved, leveling wasn't treated as trash. Don't get me wrong, I like having a plethora of skills, but I only like using a certain set that fits my playstyle.
  
  Content on all levels should never be tuned to having exactly two cleanses, 3 interups, perfect buffs, meta dps, a healing cd rotation and a rotation you have to use a 3 mods to execute.
• Talraekk Member UncommonPosts: 297

  November 18

  30, is way too much (replaying EQ2 atm, so many skills). But I absolutely hate limited skills. GW2 is my most hated (I liked specific weapons, ergo I'm stuck with just a couple of skills... for hundreds and hundreds of hours). Theres a line between too few and too many...
• cameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,847

  November 18

  It isn't a question of how big the toolbars are.
  

  
  

  It's a question of action vs tactical, with a nod to depth.
  

  
  

  
  

  An action combat game is one where the outcome is decided by the physical actions the player takes. Accuracy, reaction times, speed of input etc. It's not about knowledge, or tactics, but about action. Having too many skills available for use would detract from the action, hence a limited toolbar is preferable.
  

  
  

  
  

  A tactical combat game is one where the decisions that the player makes determine the outcome. A rotation doesn't require decision making during combat (you already learned your rotation), so a tactical game is about all of the other skills. Skills on long cooldowns, short durations, big impact, resource usage etc......they all require teh player to make a decision about when to use them. If they make the right decision, they win, wrong decision and they lose. If a player only has a few skills to choose from, then the decision is too easy, and combat is boring. So, a large toolbar is 20-40 skills is preferable, giving the players lots of options to choose from, opening up more tactics.
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  Personally, im all about tactical combat. I find it much more mentally engaging and enjoyable long term, and a well designed tactical combat game has a ton more depth than any action game could ever have. Action combat is just too quick to learn, and after that it's just a case of putting in the time to train your muscle memory.
  

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