Should Legacy MMOs Die so New MMOs Survive? | MMORPG.com

System · November 26

Should Legacy MMOs Die so New MMOs Survive? | MMORPG.com

We've seen numerous sequels and mobile transitions of MMORPGs over the past few decades. Would the genre be better if older titles sunset to allow new titles to thrive?

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Hawkeye666 · November 26

Games in general would thrive is publishers stopped trying to suck every last penny out of a dying IP without investing anything into keeping it stable, much less up-to-date, god-forbid moving it forward.

Elidien_ga · November 26

New games are not gaining a foothold because they suck. For me, its simple as that. Many are games as a service which I HATE with a passion. Or they launch incomplete or buggy.

People argued the same about movies. Apparently moves were doing badly, big blockbusters not performing, etc.... But then all the sudden you get great movies, well-made movies and the movie theater is back. people want great, well-made content and are tired of settling.

It reminds me of something during COVID. During the majority of 2020, I would watch the same tv shows, same movies, over and over. Apparently when things are stressful people take comfort in the known. So knowing how that movie ends or what happens to that character was something many people wanted during those uncertain times. Its a comfort in the knowing but also a nostalgia for a better time before.

I think old games are like that too. I can login to WOW right now and pick it right up and have those decades of memories right there.

I think another issue is that fans would be resentful if a company sunset active games. Looking at the issues with games that involve Amazon Game Studios in the last year, it makes me nervous for any game they are involved with.

Scot · November 26

I think the other two have already said it, if the new MMOs were good enough the "legacy" MMOs would not exist. Can we than perhaps call them what they should be called, "Better" MMORPGs?

ultimateduck · November 26

If new games were good, they wouldn't need old games to die in order to succeed. People stick with older games because they are better. Plain and simple.

Nanfoodle · November 26

I think MMOs have lost their way. Gamers are wallets, not customers. Most modern MMOs are designed from the ground up to make the game inconvenient, that has paid options to make it more playable. That is the reason MMOs are struggling. Old MMOs mostly have fair pricing or the game is not designed for the cash shops they add. So its still playable. So old MMOs are just plodding along and new MMOs are closing. IMO, till they get it right. Thats the way it should go. If Ashes does well, maybe developers will get it.

Angrakhan · November 26

BAD MMOs should die to make space for GOOD MMOs. The age of the game should be immaterial other than older games need continued investment to keep them fresh and engaging.

Sarla · November 26

I think another factor is that old games were written to be played only on PC and old people like myself only play games on PC.

New games have to be playable on multi platforms so they are not as good as a game made just for PC, or not as good for mobile if made for both.

mitech616 · November 26

Yeah, being old doesn't mean it's bad. In fact, there are several older MMOs that were canceled NOT because they were bad or even failing, but because the publisher (not thendev studio usually) wasn't making "enough" profit. This is VERY MUCH the case with canceled SOE titles and NC Soft.

And I also agree with the sentiment of an earlier post that newer games, while sometimes prettier, are often devoid of enough fun to make it worth continued play. People are in such a rush to "end game" that newer MMOs catering to the masses have sped up and slashed actual content. When you can get to max level in an MMO in a couple days, something isn't right.

sabrefoxx · November 26

I noticed you did not mention World of Warcraft... has your primary sponsor commanded you not to disparage their decades old game by trying to make people believe its still relevant and people still play it? Every year it's the "number one game" on this site no matter what other great titles pop up. Hardly.

apprentice27 · November 26

Absolutely not. Let the best product win!
What sort of question even is that ?
Lmao

k61977 · November 26

I would say no. The people playing the old MMO prefer the older MMO. The people wanting to play new MMO's play the new ones when they launch if they ever do. It should say something that the older ones tend to stick around while the newer ones tend to shutter in a year or two.

Maurgrim · November 26

I don't mind Star Trek Online and Neverwinter to die so we can get some proper MMOs set in those franchises.

Neoyoshi · November 26

No, that doesn't solve the core problems.

Quizzical · November 26

There is no reason to believe that shutting down old MMORPGs would improve the prospects of new ones. To the contrary, making people think that even if a game is popular, it will still shut down, would discourage people from trying new MMORPGs.

Quizzical · November 26

Maurgrim said:

I don't mind Star Trek Online and Neverwinter to die so we can get some proper MMOs set in those franchises.

There's no rule that there can't be more than one game, or even more than one MMORPGs, in a given IP. For that matter, the article explicitly mentions multiple EverQuest games running, with another perhaps on the way.

Viper482 · November 26

This is a stupid discussion. The only reason these MMOs are still around is because people still play them and obviously prefer them. Supply and demand. Make new MMOs worth a shit and people might play them.

Sovrath · November 26

I think the assumption is that the old MMORPG’s will close so people will move to the new one?

I can say for certainty that I wouldn’t.

Nebless · November 26

What a stupid question. If the new games are any good people will move over to them and if not they'll ignore the new to keep playing the old version.

To think you can force players to move to the new, by shutting down the old is asinine.

ShinyFlygon · November 26

I'd love to see a reboot of EverQuest, but not by Daybreak. Jenn Chan says she'd want it to have modern gameplay, but unless "modern" is her code for "not another obnoxious free-to-play time sink like literally ever other Daybreak game," she's not going to win back this EQ old-timer.

FrodoFragins · November 26

Ideally the older ones wouldn't just shut down due to the new ones license. AKA SWG and SWTOR.

But MMOs cost a lot of money and publishers don't want to be competing against another with the same IP. It sucks but it is what it is.

Marvel is worse in this regard as they have very strict earnings requirements from their licensed games and if you can't meet them they shut them down. It makes sense to some extent as they are also very strict in terms of needing to approve all patches/updates. And eventually it's not worth the trouble to them.

Antarious · November 26

If a new game can't survive it likely is just bad or isn't interesting to people. I don't occasionally play "classic wow" because I think it was the greatest thing ever. I play it because nobody is making a new thing MMO wise that I feel is worth playing.

I used to play UO, DAoC, EQ 1/2 etc but I eventually got my fill. I played WoW classic in 2019 because there wasn't anything else around and then Season of Discovery for the same reason.

Want a new MMO to survive? Someone has to make one worth playing... there are plenty of people around waiting. So instead mostly I play single player games because you still get a decent one now and then.

Valentina · November 26

While I agree with many peoples sentiment that newer MMO's just need to be better in order to wrangle their way to the top over legacy games, because developers should always be aiming to make better games, I don't think that alone will change anything. Legacy MMO's survive largely due to nostalgia, and most humans are creatures of habit.

Legacy MMO's continuing to exist does play a role in making it markedly more difficult for new games to thrive long enough to become legacy MMO's themselves. Developers for the genre have to be comfortable evolving the formula to attract each new generations preferences in a way that sticks, and I think many of them fear leaving the older crowd out by doing that, but by not doing that, they are keeping the genre in a near stasis, where change and evolution is extremely slow and mostly just appears in the form of quality of life rather than true innovation.

Splattr · November 27

Do old MMOs need to die for new MMOs to succeed? I don't think so. As several people have already said, if a new MMO is good enough, it will succeed on its own accord. Enough new successes could result in the "death" of some older MMOs, though.

I do think that the time people have spent in games like WoW, FFXIV, and even smaller successes like BDO and GW2, means a new MMO has to be more than just a prettier version of an existing MMO. No one ever played WoW for its graphics, so if a WoW 2.0 came out that was only better visually, than long-term players would quickly move back to the OG. New mechanics, new class ideas, something revolutionary has to be added in to get those players to cross over.

That said, I do think a new entry in an existing IP can hinder the growth of an existing MMO. I think you see this with EQ and EQ2. EQ2 didn't kill EQ because it wasn't good enough to draw the old players in. But it did capture new players that potentially could have gone to EQ instead. Those players went with what was perceived as the better version, simply because newer must equal better, right?

Brainy · November 27

Splattr said:

Do old MMOs need to die for new MMOs to succeed? I don't think so. As several people have already said, if a new MMO is good enough, it will succeed on its own accord. Enough new successes could result in the "death" of some older MMOs, though.

I do think that the time people have spent in games like WoW, FFXIV, and even smaller successes like BDO and GW2, means a new MMO has to be more than just a prettier version of an existing MMO. No one ever played WoW for its graphics, so if a WoW 2.0 came out that was only better visually, than long-term players would quickly move back to the OG. New mechanics, new class ideas, something revolutionary has to be added in to get those players to cross over.

That said, I do think a new entry in an existing IP can hinder the growth of an existing MMO. I think you see this with EQ and EQ2. EQ2 didn't kill EQ because it wasn't good enough to draw the old players in. But it did capture new players that potentially could have gone to EQ instead. Those players went with what was perceived as the better version, simply because newer must equal better, right?

I will believe you when I see a single clone equal to Vanilla WoW and fail.

Until then its just a lot of speculation theory.

I would offer a counterpoint, in that I think a game doesnt even have to be as good as Vanilla Wow to massively succeed.

People are so used to absolute garbage, that anything just approaching WoW would do phenomenal.

While you are at it, add UO post trammel or DAOC to the list.

Everyone keeps saying games have to be better, yet all I see are games that are completely subpar.

DafAtRandom · November 27

One must be out of things to think about to start a discussion point such as this. Makes sense, in a world where everybody gets a trophy and excuses for shortcomings are paramount.

People like Caspian and all those jolly crowdfunding recipients probably aren't spamming the "love" button on this quick enough.

"My game would have been a success had it not been for all those grumpy old men that refused to leave EQ1...and to top it off, the mean people at Blizzard released Classic servers so my stick figures on the screen couldn't compete...it's not fair, it's not my fault...here's a map drawn on a napkin, please buy it for 500$ and it will give you access to the buggiest mess of a sad excuse of a game prototype we have been working for 12 years on that you have ever seen, just sign this NDA so you can't tell anyone."

Or...maybe everybody else is right...new games struggle to thrive because people are tired of hearing excuses for the buggy, uninspired messes they have the audacity to release.

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