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Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Reveals Naming Policies and Rules Ahead of Early Access | MMORPG.com

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  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,900
    IMO this is not the game I backed. I don't regret it and I wish them well. This is not early access. What turns me off is they are selling a Alpha as a EA game. Does not fool me but many will be. They will not realize it till later. For me it's now a trust issue. I'm a backer and could just play for free but it does not sit well with me. For me this looks like a house of cards. My guess the first wipe will anger many. 
    Tyidal
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,900
    edited December 13
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
    It used to be the "norm" to wipe before proper launch, but that went by the wayside. Money was more important than a level playing field at proper launch.
    Nanfoodle
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
    I'd have to see a link proving that to be the norm.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,900
    edited December 13
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
    I'd have to see a link proving that to be the norm.
    lol I love how people demand links lol Have fun with that =-) but here is a list for ya from just 2024 to name a few

    Hades 2 - A roguelike action game from Supergiant Games.

    Palworld - Explore, work, build, and fight alongside mystical creatures called "Pals".

    Roots of Yggdrasil - A Norse mythology-inspired roguelike deck-builder and city-builder.

    Thrive: Heavy Lays the Crown - A realistic city-builder set in a low-fantasy medieval world.

    The Rogue Prince of Persia - A roguelike game featuring the Prince of Persia with time-reversal mechanics.

    Deep Rock Galactic: Survivor - A single-player, top-down survival shooter from Ghost Ship Publishing.

    Witchfire - A roguelite FPS with stunning visuals and a gripping atmosphere.

    Eldoria: The Awakening - A fantasy RPG with a rich storyline and immersive world.

    Astral Frontier - A space exploration game with procedurally generated planets and alien encounters.

    Mystic Realms - A sandbox adventure game with magical elements and diverse biomes.

    ChronoCraft - A time-traveling crafting game with unique mechanics and historical settings.

    Echoes of the Ancients - An action-adventure game with ancient mysteries and epic battles.

    Skyward Bound - A flight simulation game with realistic physics and stunning landscapes.

    Terraformers - A terraforming strategy game where you shape and develop new worlds.

    Shadow of the Seraph - A dark fantasy RPG with intricate lore and challenging combat.

    Path of Exile 2 - The highly anticipated sequel to the popular action RPG, featuring a new league system that preserves characters and progress.

    Echoes of the Ancients - An action-adventure game with ancient mysteries and epic battles.

    Skyward Bound - A flight simulation game with realistic physics and stunning landscapes.

    Terraformers - A terraforming strategy game where you shape and develop new worlds.

    Shadow of the Seraph - A dark fantasy RPG with intricate lore and challenging combat.

    Mystic Realms - A sandbox adventure game with magical elements and diverse biomes.

    ChronoCraft - A time-traveling crafting game with unique mechanics and historical settings.

    Witchfire - A roguelite FPS with stunning visuals and a gripping atmosphere

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,933
    edited December 13
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
    I'd have to see a link proving that to be the norm.
    lol I love how people demand links lol Have fun with that =-) but here is a list for ya from just 2024 to name a few



    Do you equally love people making statements but nothing to back it up? It very well might be true but at least point to where they got this. Which I see you did after the fact.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,900
    edited December 13
    Sovrath said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
    I'd have to see a link proving that to be the norm.
    lol I love how people demand links lol Have fun with that =-) but here is a list for ya from just 2024 to name a few



    Do you equally love people making statements but nothing to back it up? It very well might be true but at least point to where they got this. Which I see you did after the fact.
    Shutting down a conversation with give me a link is one of the most useless things on forums. Quick AI search is so easy to do. Looking for links is useless. So much confecting trash on the internet its like a sewer. Everyone knows the majority of games now have an EA even by AAA studios. And the vast majority do not wipe. Im not fooled and you are not. My concern is for the majority that dont know Pantheon is not at that stage in development. Any gamer here know they are selling an Alpha and thats ok. Im upset that they are not being forward about that with paying customers. That is a valid concern. Not a hill to stand on IMO. 
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,900
    edited December 13
    Nanfoodle said:
    Sovrath said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
    I'd have to see a link proving that to be the norm.
    lol I love how people demand links lol Have fun with that =-) but here is a list for ya from just 2024 to name a few



    Do you equally love people making statements but nothing to back it up? It very well might be true but at least point to where they got this. Which I see you did after the fact.
    Shutting down a conversation with give me a link is one of the most useless things on forums. Quick AI search is so easy to do. Looking for links is useless. So much confecting trash on the internet its like a sewer. Everyone knows the majority of games now have an EA even by AAA studios. And the vast majority do not wipe. Im not fooled and you are not. My concern is for the majority that dont know Pantheon is not at that stage in development. Any gamer here know they are selling an Alpha and thats ok. Im upset that they are not being forward about that with paying customers. That is a valid concern. Not a hill to stand on IMO. 
    EDIT: Did a quick AI search and I am wrong its not a vast majority its been a stable 20% of games launch in EA but the games that do EA most do not do a wipe. 25% of EA games dont even fully launch. I play mostly on Xbox and most games I want to play has had an early access including the recent Indy game. 
    Sovrath
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,933
    Nanfoodle said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Sovrath said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
    I'd have to see a link proving that to be the norm.
    lol I love how people demand links lol Have fun with that =-) but here is a list for ya from just 2024 to name a few



    Do you equally love people making statements but nothing to back it up? It very well might be true but at least point to where they got this. Which I see you did after the fact.
    Shutting down a conversation with give me a link is one of the most useless things on forums. Quick AI search is so easy to do. Looking for links is useless. So much confecting trash on the internet its like a sewer. Everyone knows the majority of games now have an EA even by AAA studios. And the vast majority do not wipe. Im not fooled and you are not. My concern is for the majority that dont know Pantheon is not at that stage in development. Any gamer here know they are selling an Alpha and thats ok. Im upset that they are not being forward about that with paying customers. That is a valid concern. Not a hill to stand on IMO. 
    EDIT: Did a quick AI search and I am wrong its not a vast majority its been a stable 20% of games launch in EA but the games that do EA most do not do a wipe. 25% of EA games dont even fully launch. I play mostly on Xbox and most games I want to play has had an early access including the recent Indy game. 

    And that's why people will question some statements. Because anybody can make any statement and insist it's true.

    Thanks for making the clarification. Though I do wonder how accurate "ai" is at times.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    Nanfoodle said:
    Sovrath said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Kyleran said:
    To me Early Access is literally synonymous with Alpha, see games like 7D2D, 21 Alpha builds across 10 years of early access.  

    Star Citizen, Alpha, so many others.

    I'm not sure Pantheon has really moved past their pre-alpha build yet.


    The majority of early access games on steam are at the beta stage that lets you keep your progress as well. Thats the norm.
    I'd have to see a link proving that to be the norm.
    lol I love how people demand links lol Have fun with that =-) but here is a list for ya from just 2024 to name a few



    Do you equally love people making statements but nothing to back it up? It very well might be true but at least point to where they got this. Which I see you did after the fact.
    Shutting down a conversation with give me a link is one of the most useless things on forums. Quick AI search is so easy to do. Looking for links is useless. So much confecting trash on the internet its like a sewer. Everyone knows the majority of games now have an EA even by AAA studios. And the vast majority do not wipe. Im not fooled and you are not. My concern is for the majority that dont know Pantheon is not at that stage in development. Any gamer here know they are selling an Alpha and thats ok. Im upset that they are not being forward about that with paying customers. That is a valid concern. Not a hill to stand on IMO. 
    Pax Dai is in Early Access Alpha, however Brighter Shores is in post Beta Early Access.

    Both games are by many accounts still substantially incomplete, both collect money, so what's the difference? Brighter Shores isn't planning on wiping anymore.

    If you want to argue no wipes as a defining characteristic I'll go along with you, but then in my book such titles are "released", regardless what weezle word BS devs try to frame things in.

    As there's no agreed upon development stage or definition for early access other than apparently developers saying the game isn't finished making claims that "most" are in beta or further can't be taken at face value.  

    I can easily find 10 online service titles (probably more) that are or previously launched in a self declared alpha state, but can't be arsed to analyze all of Steam to confirm.

    You made the claim, you prove it, not up to me to do your work.

    People on the internet love to spout their opinions or perceptions as facts and quite often have nothing to really back them up.  

    Case in point, provide a link to a study or survey or admit there isn't one and that your claim isnt valid.




    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    edited December 14
    While we're at it, let's define what exactly a beta state is. ;)

    City State just took their test environment / build for Camelot Unchained offline after over 5 years of "Beta One" which was never beyond a pre-alpha state.


    Post edited by Kyleran on

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,650
    @lotrlore are you folks working on a review?

    If any game deserves one in “early access” it’s Pantheon… well other than Star Citizen.

    Sovrath

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    @lotrlore are you folks working on a review?

    If any game deserves one in “early access” it’s Pantheon… well other than Star Citizen.

    Surely it needs to be in EA first, then we can start talking about how likely the 'crystal ball prediction' is of how much promise will be fulfilled when the game properly launches. :)
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,650
    Scot said:
    @lotrlore are you folks working on a review?

    If any game deserves one in “early access” it’s Pantheon… well other than Star Citizen.

    Surely it needs to be in EA first, then we can start talking about how likely the 'crystal ball prediction' is of how much promise will be fulfilled when the game properly launches. :)
    It launched into EA yesterday...
    ScotValdemarJ

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,053
    Kyleran said:
    While we're at it, let's define what exactly a beta state is. ;)

    City State just took their test environment / build offline after over 5 years of "Beta One" which was never beyond a pre-alpha state.


    in software development, the terms alpha and beta have real meanings.

    Software release life cycle - Wikipedia

    Unit test is where individual pieces are tested. Like does the DB store data correctly, does the UI work, does the account system work, etc. There is no game yet.

    Pre-alpha is where the game is being developed and integrated. There is no game yet. This is what gaming companies typically call alpha, beta and early access. It is incomplete and some of it might work.

    Alpha is where the parts are integrated into a whole. The game is feature complete and no new features are added. First testing of the game as a whole is done, finding lots of problems which should be from integration issues. It is complete and just needs testing, usually a short time; it mostly works.

    Beta is where the game is feature complete and has gone through initial testing, it is supposed to work except for a few bugs. This is also usually a short time while bugs are being fixed.

    The idea of being in alpha or beta for years is ridiculous. Gaming companies call it alpha, beta, or early access while they are still developing it. 

    Most of the software I worked on was for chip design, CAD software, typically costing $100K or more per copy. Only select customers could get a beta copy and they were legally forbidden from using it to work on a real chip. It was for testing only.

    In chip design, when the silicon came back we asked "does it wiggle"? Does any of it do anything? Of course we can't sell it in that state, but that is what gaming companies do now. Does any of it work? Then call it alpha/beta/early access and start selling it.
    Brainy

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 2,206

    Game Development’s New Cycle:

    1. Game Design Hype Phase
    This is where studios craft their talking points for the FakeHype crowd.

    • Announce every feature you think customers will want to hear—and then some.
    • Be bold. FakeHype enthusiasts will help spin the narrative.
    • Remember, promises are cheap, and hype sells.

    2. Money Maker Pre-Access Phase

    • Launch a “test environment” and sell access for 10-50 times the normal price of the game.
    • Line up interviews about all the great things you’re doing—or plan to do.
    • Enlist the FakeHype crowd to rave about the game, even if they haven’t tested it properly.
    • Hire or partner with a streamer to amplify the buzz.

    3. Early Access Phase

    • Release the game in a broken, incomplete state—but charge full retail price.
    • FakeHype supporters will spin this as a “work in progress” and assure everyone that features are coming.
    • Most players will quit at this stage, but it’s okay—they’ve already paid.

    4. Release Phase

    • The game is officially launched but remains full of game-breaking bugs and missing features.
    • Transition the game into “maintenance mode.”
    • Just before major sales events, add a trivial feature and call it a “NEW CONTENT PATCH.”
    • A few diehards continue playing, mostly on private servers or the one official server still running from a dev’s garage.
    • FakeHype crowd declares the game a “success,” claiming it’s still thriving with 1-25 active players for many years.

    5. Dreamstate Phase

    • This is the mythical stage where the game is fully polished, bug-free, and everything originally promised is implemented.
    • It never actually happens.
    • Occasionally, the FakeHype crowd posts on forums pretending the game has reached this point.

    And so, the cycle continues...

    olepiKyleran
  • AngrakhanAngrakhan Member EpicPosts: 1,837
    edited December 14
    I will say I have tried to stay away from EA games. Only exception I've made in the last year was I did hop into PoE2 and have not been disappointed in that decision. At some point I got annoyed at not just being a volunteer beta tester but actually paying a premium price to be a beta tester. I mean people get paid real money to test software. Why am I paying to do what is other people's job? So I decided to stop doing that in general.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    olepi said:
    Kyleran said:
    While we're at it, let's define what exactly a beta state is. ;)

    City State just took their test environment / build offline after over 5 years of "Beta One" which was never beyond a pre-alpha state.


    in software development, the terms alpha and beta have real meanings.

    Software release life cycle - Wikipedia

    Unit test is where individual pieces are tested. Like does the DB store data correctly, does the UI work, does the account system work, etc. There is no game yet.

    Pre-alpha is where the game is being developed and integrated. There is no game yet. This is what gaming companies typically call alpha, beta and early access. It is incomplete and some of it might work.

    Alpha is where the parts are integrated into a whole. The game is feature complete and no new features are added. First testing of the game as a whole is done, finding lots of problems which should be from integration issues. It is complete and just needs testing, usually a short time; it mostly works.

    Beta is where the game is feature complete and has gone through initial testing, it is supposed to work except for a few bugs. This is also usually a short time while bugs are being fixed.

    The idea of being in alpha or beta for years is ridiculous. Gaming companies call it alpha, beta, or early access while they are still developing it. 

    Most of the software I worked on was for chip design, CAD software, typically costing $100K or more per copy. Only select customers could get a beta copy and they were legally forbidden from using it to work on a real chip. It was for testing only.

    In chip design, when the silicon came back we asked "does it wiggle"? Does any of it do anything? Of course we can't sell it in that state, but that is what gaming companies do now. Does any of it work? Then call it alpha/beta/early access and start selling it.
    You and I (and most of the civilized world) understand what the above terms mean, but in game development they have completely different meanings because the industry is "special." (In so many ways)

    Normal rules apparently don't apply, and so often we're told unless one works in game development it's beyond our understanding how this dark art gets done.

    In all fairness, video games are one of the only products in existence where customers will happily throw money at regardless of quality, completeness or delivery schedule.

    Gamers even are willing to pay to help "test" the product, as if the developers are ever really listening to their feedback.

    Definitely "special" for sure.

    Scotolepi

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,053
    Kyleran said:
    olepi said:
    Kyleran said:
    While we're at it, let's define what exactly a beta state is. ;)

    City State just took their test environment / build offline after over 5 years of "Beta One" which was never beyond a pre-alpha state.


    in software development, the terms alpha and beta have real meanings.

    Software release life cycle - Wikipedia

    Unit test is where individual pieces are tested. Like does the DB store data correctly, does the UI work, does the account system work, etc. There is no game yet.

    Pre-alpha is where the game is being developed and integrated. There is no game yet. This is what gaming companies typically call alpha, beta and early access. It is incomplete and some of it might work.

    Alpha is where the parts are integrated into a whole. The game is feature complete and no new features are added. First testing of the game as a whole is done, finding lots of problems which should be from integration issues. It is complete and just needs testing, usually a short time; it mostly works.

    Beta is where the game is feature complete and has gone through initial testing, it is supposed to work except for a few bugs. This is also usually a short time while bugs are being fixed.

    The idea of being in alpha or beta for years is ridiculous. Gaming companies call it alpha, beta, or early access while they are still developing it. 

    Most of the software I worked on was for chip design, CAD software, typically costing $100K or more per copy. Only select customers could get a beta copy and they were legally forbidden from using it to work on a real chip. It was for testing only.

    In chip design, when the silicon came back we asked "does it wiggle"? Does any of it do anything? Of course we can't sell it in that state, but that is what gaming companies do now. Does any of it work? Then call it alpha/beta/early access and start selling it.
    You and I (and most of the civilized world) understand what the above terms mean, but in game development they have completely different meanings because the industry is "special." (In so many ways)

    Normal rules apparently don't apply, and so often we're told unless one works in game development it's beyond our understanding how this dark art gets done.

    In all fairness, video games are one of the only products in existence where customers will happily throw money at regardless of quality, completeness or delivery schedule.

    Gamers even are willing to pay to help "test" the product, as if the developers are ever really listening to their feedback.

    Definitely "special" for sure.

    Our problem is that we keep thinking in terms of a product that people buy, like a computer or a car. We expect the product to be done and that it works. 

    Computer games are more like entertainment, very subjective what they are worth. Would you pay to watch a movie as it is being filmed? The final picture might be different, it might not even include the scene(s) you watched. But you were entertained for the time, people seem to think it is worth it.

    Take an extreme example, Star Citizen. It has been absurdly claimed to be in alpha for a decade. If you plunked down $45 could you get $45 worth of entertainment from it? Probably yes. Is it an actual complete product that works? No.

    I'd say forget alpha, beta, and early access. Those terms only mean the product isn't done yet. If it is available to the public and they are charging money for it, it has released, finished or not. Anything that "wiggles" can be sold it seems.
    BrainyKyleran

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 2,206
    olepi said:

    I'd say forget alpha, beta, and early access. Those terms only mean the product isn't done yet. If it is available to the public and they are charging money for it, it has released, finished or not. Anything that "wiggles" can be sold it seems.

    I completely agree that the traditional development phases have been hijacked. This shift is partly because review sites and consumers have allowed studios to blur these definitions. Studios release incomplete games but promise future improvements, and often manage to secure better ratings upfront based on those promises rather than the actual state of the product.
    TyidalKyleranScot
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,650
    I'm old enough to remember when Early Access meant that if you pre-ordered a game you might get a 1-3 day head start.
    TyidalSovrathKyleran

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  • lotrlorelotrlore Managing EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, Member RarePosts: 671
    @lotrlore are you folks working on a review?

    If any game deserves one in “early access” it’s Pantheon… well other than Star Citizen.

    We are indeed. We’ve got three people in game right now, and I’ll be checking it out myself here this weekend in between finishing our Marvel Rivals review.

    our lead reviewer is also a backer of the project, which makes his perspective a better one to lead with instead of myself, who doesn’t have that initial financial investment or emotional investment attached to the title.
    Slapshot1188Kyleran
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,462
    olepi said:

    Computer games are more like entertainment
    They are not like, they ARE entertainment.

    For many, the ultimate media entertainment form in complexity and agency because how it allows the consumer be the active agent and decision maker in the product.

    Different game studios can have different stages and lenghts of production because projects will differ in complexity and scope and there's nothing wrong with it.


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    lotrlore said:
    @lotrlore are you folks working on a review?

    If any game deserves one in “early access” it’s Pantheon… well other than Star Citizen.

    We are indeed. We’ve got three people in game right now, and I’ll be checking it out myself here this weekend in between finishing our Marvel Rivals review.

    our lead reviewer is also a backer of the project, which makes his perspective a better one to lead with instead of myself, who doesn’t have that initial financial investment or emotional investment attached to the title.
    Lemme predict, 8/10 for this plucky band of developers.

    Amirite?  ;)

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