The hubris of the wildstar devs killed the game. They were absolutely convinced that they had the right formula such that they listened to absolutely no one except the other people in their tight inner circle echo chamber. Casuals need not apply because it was only for the truly hard core.
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
If they’re not interested in keeping customers happy, maybe they shouldn’t be in the “professional industry” at all.
Imagine going to a doctor who says, “Stick this thermometer up your bum. Sure, I have more modern tools to do the job, but I prefer the old-school way—it’s more fun for me.”
How long do you think that doctor would stay in business with that kind of mindset?
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
If they’re not interested in keeping customers happy, maybe they shouldn’t be in the “professional industry” at all.
Imagine going to a doctor who says, “Stick this thermometer up your bum. Sure, I have more modern tools to do the job, but I prefer the old-school way—it’s more fun for me.”
How long do you think that doctor would stay in business with that kind of mindset?
Doctor? Apples to Oranges for sure.
Who should they keep happy? The customers who want the product they want to make or the customers who want something different that they don't want to make. I know you are very much a "if it's popular it's good" type of person but sometimes those things that are popular are not worth doing.
I say good on them for sticking with their guns but they learned what happens when you make something for a small amount of people BUT you require a greater audience to keep it afloat.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I heard about the bugs, but remember back then we were more prepared to put up with them. If you go back even further rubber banding was a semi regular occurrence in DAOC.
There has been no point in my life when I was willing to put up with "the main quest line cannot be advanced due to a bug that we're taking our sweet time on fixing." Not today, not when I played WildStar, not 10 years before I played WildStar, never.
Back at the time, I remember thinking that Wildstar failed not because any massive flaws, but rather it was death by 1000 cuts.
A lot of the press, and some of the fans, like to focus on the hardcore nature of the endgame. But, so few people ever actually reached the endgame that I don't think it was as big of a problem as many suggest.
Instead, I always felt that there were simply too many little issues in every single aspect of the game that they eventually became impossible to ignore. No part of the game was pure joy, there was alway some frustration with whatever it was you were doing.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
Back at the time, I remember thinking that Wildstar failed not because any massive flaws, but rather it was death by 1000 cuts.
A lot of the press, and some of the fans, like to focus on the hardcore nature of the endgame. But, so few people ever actually reached the endgame that I don't think it was as big of a problem as many suggest.
Instead, I always felt that there were simply too many little issues in every single aspect of the game that they eventually became impossible to ignore. No part of the game was pure joy, there was alway some frustration with whatever it was you were doing.
I guess for everyone it was different. I generally don't like "goofy" but thought I'd just set that aside and see if there was anything interesting.
I then started and I have to say I despised the start of the game. It felt like it should be a tutorial but it was just so hand holding ... go to this mark, now go to this mark.
It's been a long time so I don't remember the details but I just hated the whole set up and really hated the "markings on the ground" that denoted some sort of area damage. I always wish that sort of thing is done in a more organic way, maybe smoke coming up from the area or some such thing.
In any case, not for me.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
They had plenty of time to remove the 40 man requirements and the long attunements. What they didn't have time to reconcile was the cartoony art with the no-life grind of the game.
Personally I didn't care about the art design and overly cute factor. (FF14 Loli's is another story though). But I had zero interest in returning to a vanilla WOW styled end game system. The marketing made the devs looks like tools as well though. So some people were roooting for them to fail.
A lot of the press, and some of the fans, like to focus on the hardcore nature of the endgame. But, so few people ever actually reached the endgame that I don't think it was as big of a problem as many suggest.
This. If hardly anyone reaches your endgame, then the endgame is not the reason the game failed.
I heard about the bugs, but remember back then we were more prepared to put up with them. If you go back even further rubber banding was a semi regular occurrence in DAOC.
There has been no point in my life when I was willing to put up with "the main quest line cannot be advanced due to a bug that we're taking our sweet time on fixing." Not today, not when I played WildStar, not 10 years before I played WildStar, never.
I ran into that issue quite a few times when playing single player games back in the late 80's / early 90's.
My response was usually to return the game to the store for a refund until I was sure the game breaking bug(s) had been fixed.
Only on a few occasions I waited for the developer to ship me new disks with the fixes on them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A lot of the press, and some of the fans, like to focus on the hardcore nature of the endgame. But, so few people ever actually reached the endgame that I don't think it was as big of a problem as many suggest.
This. If hardly anyone reaches your endgame, then the endgame is not the reason the game failed.
Or maybe that's exactly why the game failed, it was too difficult, buggy, or boring to get attuned for raids? (compared to the rest of the market)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Game sucked. I never wanted a game to be so good. I tried three times to play solid for a month. It was not a MMO. It was a dance in a pattern game. Scripted patterns you needed to dance in to kill bosses. Twitchy and repetitive. The game died because it sucked.
what you just described is mechanics in the game that every other game has had since and currently has. Maybe just sucking at game mechanics sealed the deal.
Now you know why this dead genre is dead, every other game has same dull, repetitive twitch mechanics.
BTW, not every game has this but some folks don't get out much I guess.
Dull and boring I get it, it's been around since the days of Pong and Missile Command. It's nothing more than a flavor, not an over generalization. We can all say the same thing about your mom, she just wasn't my kind of woman.
A lot of the press, and some of the fans, like to focus on the hardcore nature of the endgame. But, so few people ever actually reached the endgame that I don't think it was as big of a problem as many suggest.
This. If hardly anyone reaches your endgame, then the endgame is not the reason the game failed.
No not "this". Or maybe exactly "this" depending on how you look at it. If they're not making it to end game, what are they doing? GIVING UP and walking away from the game. Bye bye monthly sub times however many people fall into that category. You suddenly dismiss this as a problem? You don't think this contributed to the REVENUE problems that forced the shut down. Are you serious?
The game got too hard way before end game. I played in beta. I quit beta because at the end of the current phase of beta they stated that you had to make it to 35 to be qualified for the next phase. I was 34. Then they decided the game was too easy. They literally declared that in the patch notes. I log in looking to hit 35. Every fight was like soloing an elite in WoW (back when that meant something). If you got an add, you ran or died. I finally killed a mob for my quest and saw the progress meter move like 3%. I just threw my hands up in the air and logged out. Never looked back. Game launched and later failed because they built a hardcore game with a WoW budget and those loan payments came due.
And here you are proclaiming "this" like you can't see the forest for the trees in your face.
The hubris of the wildstar devs killed the game. They were absolutely convinced that they had the right formula such that they listened to absolutely no one except the other people in their tight inner circle echo chamber. Casuals need not apply because it was only for the truly hard core.
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
If they wanted to make a crazy hard hardcore only game, that's fine. Their mistake was not budgeting for the niche audience that would attract. They had some delusions of grandeur (as most hardcore raiders do) that there's this huge population of underserved hardcore raiders out there that if someone would just build a game that catered to that demographic they'd all come out of the woodwork and they'd be rich. That hypothesis failed spectacularly. Wildstar proved rather conclusively that the hardcore raider fanbase is miniscule in size. What's more is that miniscule hardcore raider fanbase is entrenched in their games of choice and reluctant to change games.
Dark Souls isn't an MMO. It doesn't have nearly the overhead as an MMO. It doesn't take nearly the time investment of an MMO. It requires skills, not grind. My oldest son plays Dark Souls. He's on his 4th playthrough of the original. I've watched him play. Here's a little secret: it's not that hard. I love my son dearly, but he is NOT some pro level gamer. He'll admit it. Yet here he is trying weird builds on his 4th play through of Dark Souls that everyone holds up as some game that requires one-in-a-million talent to win. It doesn't. The bar to make a profit with Dark Souls was much lower than any MMO.
Go on, make your hardcore raider games. Just be prepared to operate on a tiny budget or look forward to repeating history.
The hubris of the wildstar devs killed the game. They were absolutely convinced that they had the right formula such that they listened to absolutely no one except the other people in their tight inner circle echo chamber. Casuals need not apply because it was only for the truly hard core.
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
If they wanted to make a crazy hard hardcore only game, that's fine. Their mistake was not budgeting for the niche audience that would attract.
That's a huge problem with a certain type of creators. Thinking that what they make has a larger audience than what it really has and not taking that into account when figuring out their budget; what their revenue can be.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The hubris of the wildstar devs killed the game. They were absolutely convinced that they had the right formula such that they listened to absolutely no one except the other people in their tight inner circle echo chamber. Casuals need not apply because it was only for the truly hard core.
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
If they wanted to make a crazy hard hardcore only game, that's fine. Their mistake was not budgeting for the niche audience that would attract.
That's a huge problem with a certain type of creators. Thinking that what they make has a larger audience than what it really has and not taking that into account when figuring out their budget; what their revenue can be.
The game that they wanted to make likely would have had a decent audience if they had implemented it well. The problem is that they implemented it badly in a whole lot of ways.
It's not that it was too hard. It's that the ways that it was hard were not fun and probably not even intended. Being unable to proceed with the main quest because it is bugged and incompletable is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended. Being unable to get the 5-man group you need for content because there aren't 5 people online in the entire zone is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended.
Having a lot of challenges where you die quite a bit, then figure how to adapt and beat it can be fun for a lot of people. That's the game that they intended to make. It's not at all similar to the game that they actually delivered.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's very much intuitive that a long development like this could cause your game to fail because of changing trends. This could be technical, mechanics, graphics, or just player sentiment. Whether this happened with wildstar, I can't say. It is a very real possibility with a 9 year development cycle in software.
The hubris of the wildstar devs killed the game. They were absolutely convinced that they had the right formula such that they listened to absolutely no one except the other people in their tight inner circle echo chamber. Casuals need not apply because it was only for the truly hard core.
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
If they wanted to make a crazy hard hardcore only game, that's fine. Their mistake was not budgeting for the niche audience that would attract.
That's a huge problem with a certain type of creators. Thinking that what they make has a larger audience than what it really has and not taking that into account when figuring out their budget; what their revenue can be.
The game that they wanted to make likely would have had a decent audience if they had implemented it well. The problem is that they implemented it badly in a whole lot of ways.
It's not that it was too hard. It's that the ways that it was hard were not fun and probably not even intended. Being unable to proceed with the main quest because it is bugged and incompletable is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended. Being unable to get the 5-man group you need for content because there aren't 5 people online in the entire zone is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended.
Having a lot of challenges where you die quite a bit, then figure how to adapt and beat it can be fun for a lot of people. That's the game that they intended to make. It's not at all similar to the game that they actually delivered.
Your first example is a bug and has nothing to do with difficulty of the game. It just needed to be fixed.
The second example is a bit different because you are saying that developers can't make content solely for groups. That's a hard ask right there because now that's right back to making a solo game.
Now, if 4 people or 3 people can tackle that challenge then fine. Meaning, if it's a hard and fast "you can't enter the instance unless you have 5 people" that I understand.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The hubris of the wildstar devs killed the game. They were absolutely convinced that they had the right formula such that they listened to absolutely no one except the other people in their tight inner circle echo chamber. Casuals need not apply because it was only for the truly hard core.
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
If they wanted to make a crazy hard hardcore only game, that's fine. Their mistake was not budgeting for the niche audience that would attract.
That's a huge problem with a certain type of creators. Thinking that what they make has a larger audience than what it really has and not taking that into account when figuring out their budget; what their revenue can be.
The game that they wanted to make likely would have had a decent audience if they had implemented it well. The problem is that they implemented it badly in a whole lot of ways.
It's not that it was too hard. It's that the ways that it was hard were not fun and probably not even intended. Being unable to proceed with the main quest because it is bugged and incompletable is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended. Being unable to get the 5-man group you need for content because there aren't 5 people online in the entire zone is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended.
Having a lot of challenges where you die quite a bit, then figure how to adapt and beat it can be fun for a lot of people. That's the game that they intended to make. It's not at all similar to the game that they actually delivered.
Your first example is a bug and has nothing to do with difficulty of the game. It just needed to be fixed.
The second example is a bit different because you are saying that developers can't make content solely for groups. That's a hard ask right there because now that's right back to making a solo game.
Now, if 4 people or 3 people can tackle that challenge then fine. Meaning, if it's a hard and fast "you can't enter the instance unless you have 5 people" that I understand.
The problem was that it wasn't just "you can't do a few group instances on a dead server". There were a zillion things scattered all through the zone where you needed someone with a particular specialty to show up and help you. It wasn't even group content. You just needed one person to open a door or some such, and could have done it solo if you had the right specialty.
Even in combat, the difficulty was more about fighting with a terrible control scheme than about anything that the mobs did. I don't know how someone came up with the idea that a particular key would sometimes mean strafe and sometimes turn, and sometimes even switch between them in the middle of a motion, and you couldn't just pick one or the other. But that made combat a lot harder than it otherwise would have been, and it was maddening because it was so stupid that you couldn't control your own character very well.
The hubris of the wildstar devs killed the game. They were absolutely convinced that they had the right formula such that they listened to absolutely no one except the other people in their tight inner circle echo chamber. Casuals need not apply because it was only for the truly hard core.
Ok but let's play devil's advocate; why should they make a game that they don't want to make?
The apparent answer is "well, to stay in business." But then they are making something they dont' want to make "just to stay in business."
While I know that anyone in a creative field does at times have to do things they don't want to do such as actors doing commercials, composers writing jingles, musicians playing wedding gigs, etc, there has to be a point where you are dedicating yourself to the larger plans or activities that led you to pursue this course to begin with.
Let's be honest, dark souls got lucky. The studio was apparently uncomfortable with how challenging it was and it was lucky it found an audience quickly.
I also wonder, if it was release now, if it would be as popular given how tricky it could be. Not even going to go into how demons' souls would do.
If they wanted to make a crazy hard hardcore only game, that's fine. Their mistake was not budgeting for the niche audience that would attract.
That's a huge problem with a certain type of creators. Thinking that what they make has a larger audience than what it really has and not taking that into account when figuring out their budget; what their revenue can be.
The game that they wanted to make likely would have had a decent audience if they had implemented it well. The problem is that they implemented it badly in a whole lot of ways.
It's not that it was too hard. It's that the ways that it was hard were not fun and probably not even intended. Being unable to proceed with the main quest because it is bugged and incompletable is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended. Being unable to get the 5-man group you need for content because there aren't 5 people online in the entire zone is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended.
Having a lot of challenges where you die quite a bit, then figure how to adapt and beat it can be fun for a lot of people. That's the game that they intended to make. It's not at all similar to the game that they actually delivered.
Your first example is a bug and has nothing to do with difficulty of the game. It just needed to be fixed.
The second example is a bit different because you are saying that developers can't make content solely for groups. That's a hard ask right there because now that's right back to making a solo game.
Now, if 4 people or 3 people can tackle that challenge then fine. Meaning, if it's a hard and fast "you can't enter the instance unless you have 5 people" that I understand.
The problem was that it wasn't just "you can't do a few group instances on a dead server". There were a zillion things scattered all through the zone where you needed someone with a particular specialty to show up and help you. It wasn't even group content. You just needed one person to open a door or some such, and could have done it solo if you had the right specialty.
Even in combat, the difficulty was more about fighting with a terrible control scheme than about anything that the mobs did. I don't know how someone came up with the idea that a particular key would sometimes mean strafe and sometimes turn, and sometimes even switch between them in the middle of a motion, and you couldn't just pick one or the other. But that made combat a lot harder than it otherwise would have been, and it was maddening because it was so stupid that you couldn't control your own character very well.
I'll be honest, I find the idea that particular people are needed for various tasks very appealing but that type of thing doesn't belong in a theme park game.
Then again, if there isn't a specific class and the game has a low population then there needs to be some sort of "override." Or at least another way to get it done. I suppose that would depend on the type of game and what was required.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Personally I didn't care about the art design and overly cute factor. (FF14 Loli's is another story though). But I had zero interest in returning to a vanilla WOW styled end game system. The marketing made the devs looks like tools as well though. So some people were roooting for them to fail.
My response was usually to return the game to the store for a refund until I was sure the game breaking bug(s) had been fixed.
Only on a few occasions I waited for the developer to ship me new disks with the fixes on them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The game got too hard way before end game. I played in beta. I quit beta because at the end of the current phase of beta they stated that you had to make it to 35 to be qualified for the next phase. I was 34. Then they decided the game was too easy. They literally declared that in the patch notes. I log in looking to hit 35. Every fight was like soloing an elite in WoW (back when that meant something). If you got an add, you ran or died. I finally killed a mob for my quest and saw the progress meter move like 3%. I just threw my hands up in the air and logged out. Never looked back. Game launched and later failed because they built a hardcore game with a WoW budget and those loan payments came due.
And here you are proclaiming "this" like you can't see the forest for the trees in your face.
Dark Souls isn't an MMO. It doesn't have nearly the overhead as an MMO. It doesn't take nearly the time investment of an MMO. It requires skills, not grind. My oldest son plays Dark Souls. He's on his 4th playthrough of the original. I've watched him play. Here's a little secret: it's not that hard. I love my son dearly, but he is NOT some pro level gamer. He'll admit it. Yet here he is trying weird builds on his 4th play through of Dark Souls that everyone holds up as some game that requires one-in-a-million talent to win. It doesn't. The bar to make a profit with Dark Souls was much lower than any MMO.
Go on, make your hardcore raider games. Just be prepared to operate on a tiny budget or look forward to repeating history.
That's a huge problem with a certain type of creators. Thinking that what they make has a larger audience than what it really has and not taking that into account when figuring out their budget; what their revenue can be.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's not that it was too hard. It's that the ways that it was hard were not fun and probably not even intended. Being unable to proceed with the main quest because it is bugged and incompletable is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended. Being unable to get the 5-man group you need for content because there aren't 5 people online in the entire zone is hard, but it's not a fun type of hard and it probably wasn't intended.
Having a lot of challenges where you die quite a bit, then figure how to adapt and beat it can be fun for a lot of people. That's the game that they intended to make. It's not at all similar to the game that they actually delivered.
Some humor is just fine, but Wildstar overdid it and then some.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Even in combat, the difficulty was more about fighting with a terrible control scheme than about anything that the mobs did. I don't know how someone came up with the idea that a particular key would sometimes mean strafe and sometimes turn, and sometimes even switch between them in the middle of a motion, and you couldn't just pick one or the other. But that made combat a lot harder than it otherwise would have been, and it was maddening because it was so stupid that you couldn't control your own character very well.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo