Originally posted by Aseenus Look, maybe it’s ok with you but I am very much against it!
Im only 18, but what I fail to understand is: are parents ok with paying $15 a month for a 10 year old to play a game? If I have children of my own one day, I will never in my wildest dreams pay even $1 a month for my son to play games.. Mmo’s and most games aren’t based for kids anymore and who ever thinks they are should really open there eyes and see the big picture! Do you want your children having nightmares coz they fought a demon and died? Do you want them getting used to seeing violence in games and applying it in real life?
back in the days if I re call right I remember my parents not letting me watch some movies coz they were "scary" and I might have nightmares, do people even care about that junk anymore? As a child I remember the world was such a nice place till about 13 years of age.. At least give your kids that much! Instead of watching TV and playing games you should encourage them to play sport/do well in school, when they get to the age of 16 or so then you should let them make there own decisions! When games first came out (Mario brothers etc) they were very much based for kids, then after the launch of Sony playstation they realized that the older players were much more into gaming then the young crowd, so they made games for the older crowd!
Swords/guns/killing/blowing things up... these aren’t for kids, when people like me kill something in a game I think "ok I just killed a demon.. its a game woopdy doo" when a kid plays they think "OMG IM KILLING THINGS!!!!" my 7 year old brother played WoW for a few hours while I went out.. I came back and he said "when you die do you go back to your body and come back to life" after this I never let him play a game again!
So please people do the right thing and buy them a soccer ball for there birthday and not a new game for them to play on pc.. Pc games are for the older crowd! I promise you that if everyone in the world did this then games would have such good communities!
Parents don't care anymore about their children being exposed to violence. So long as there isn't something natural in the game, like nudity or god-forbid, sex, the game is A.O.K. for kids as far as parents are concerned. And based upon the whole blow up over GTA San Andreas, I take it that parent do NOT bother to look at the ratings on the game, either. They don't really take it seriously. Parents that are non-gamers especially tend to automatically assume that video game = kid friendly.
But even with all of that said - I *would* pay for my child to play a MMO, if they were: a) Doing well in school b) Mature enough to handle a MMO, and c) Willing to play with me and their father, for the most part, as a family activity. Because unless they start making rated PG servers, or separate Family only or Teen friendly servers, I just wouldn't feel comfortable letting my child hang out with grown strangers (or heck, teenage strangers) without my or my husband's supervision.
MMO's help teach kids about life. Beielive it or not, MMO's are great learning tools. You learn about how to treat new people; how to react and how people react to different situations - the wide variety of temperaments out there. I was 12 when I started playing my first MMO, Asheron's Call, and then proceeded through DAOC. DAOC especially has taught me how to handle money. I know when to save and when to buy. Im actually one of the best buyers that are out there and I use my money in a smart way. Ive actually learned a bit of bargaining skills as well...getting those items needs a bit of negotiation tacticts, and MMOs helped me hone in my charm.
Violence in videogame is also crap. Go look at movies. Hell I just saw one yesterday that had more graphic scenes in it then all my days of playing WoW combined. Really folks, get real here. Tried of the kids? I actually kind of enjoy them. I would get bored on an Adult server - why? Because Id get tired of being SO mature. Everyone in the "mature" enviorment are so worried about being immature its no fun. And then you get the stuck up know it alls who direct groups for raiding and farming like theyre a General of an army. Having some kiddies around gives variety and a balance.
Sincerely,
Dr. Steelarm.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
your all talking how mmo's and viloence in movies and games doesnt affect kids right?
why do games + movies have rating on them, there not there for show, they are there for a reason.. think about it!
flame me all you want, but in reality you flaming me is not going to change the fact that kids do have nightmares and exposing a few things like this is not good for them! maybe you dont realise that this is an issue.. maybe they dont show you that they are scared or frightened.. ill tell you one thing that will get you thinking..
87% of american kids are over average weight
now think about it do you want a fat kid? you might say being fat isnt a problem, who cares about looks right? im not talking about looks my friend im talking about health.. being over weight is a health issue! ask any GP.. any GP in the world and i will bet as much money as you want that they will agree with me on this!
Originally posted by Aseenus your all talking how mmo's and viloence in movies and games doesnt affect kids right? why do games + movies have rating on them, there not there for show, they are there for a reason.. think about it!
flame me all you want, but in reality you flaming me is not going to change the fact that kids do have nightmares and exposing a few things like this is not good for them! maybe you dont realise that this is an issue.. maybe they dont show you that they are scared or frightened.. ill tell you one thing that will get you thinking.. 87% of american kids are over average weight now think about it do you want a fat kid? you might say being fat isnt a problem, who cares about looks right? im not talking about looks my friend im talking about health.. being over weight is a health issue! ask any GP.. any GP in the world and i will bet as much money as you want that they will agree with me on this!
Are you saying that video games are the reason for so many obese kids? I'm not fat, all my friends who play MMO's aren't fat, at all. Eating McDonalds 3+ times a week is a health issue, not playing on the internet. Yes, there can be internet related "health issues". But do "87%" of kids in American have health issues due to playing internet games?
Like someone previously said, MMO's have taught me alot more than if I hadn't played them. I learn how to control money, how to accept the consquences of things I have done wrong, how to accept responsibility and deal with it,how people react,how people act,how people think.
There are ratings on games and movies etc so people know what to expect.
You may think that video games,movies etc have a "bad effect" on kids who are "too young".
I also think you're abit of an ignorant retard,now think about that.
Oh gosh, I said retard, bet if I had never played video games I wouldn't have known that word existed.
Originally posted by qotsa But I do have problems with censorship. I think it's rotten, and I think it's rotten for people to tell others the "right" way to bring my children up. If half of these people that push for censorship and what-not spent time playing and raising their own kids, they wouldn't be messed up to begin with. You want to know why those kidsshot up Columbine? It wasn't video games or Marilyn Manson. It was the parents lack of being there, teaching their kids right from wrong and just a general lack of love and respect. It was also them turning their heads when they thought something was wrong. For a short time my parents tried the censorship over-sheltering route. It may have worked for your parents. But more times than not, it backfires. Usually it leads to more rebellion than you could evr want.
I couldn't agree with you more here. I think you are spot on that it backfires. There are more words used in schoolyards than you'll ever see in any MMORPG, sheltering a child from this is almost tantamount to lying to the child.
Here's what gets me right in the irony...Game companies that have strict "no offensive name" or "bad word" policies on a game where the object is to kill each other. It's ok to blow up your enemy with a rocket launcher, splattering his blood and guts all over the place, but don't use any naughty words doing it! This leads to comedic scenes like:
*BLAM*
"Oh peanuts, Fuzzy Bunny. You've gibbed me again. My blood and guts are spattered all over the place, golly!"
"Better luck next time Happy Shiny Soldier. Keep practicing! Maybe someday you will actually kill me."
"Yeah Fuzzy Bunny, it really makes me very gosh darn mad that I cant kill you. I mean, fiddlesticks."
"Swords/guns/killing/blowing things up... these aren’t for kids, when people like me kill something in a game I think "ok I just killed a demon.. its a game woopdy doo" when a kid plays they think "OMG IM KILLING THINGS!!!!" my 7 year old brother played WoW for a few hours while I went out.. I came back and he said "when you die do you go back to your body and come back to life" after this I never let him play a game again!"
^-- This is what's wrong with adults today. OMGOOS you SAW something, OBVIOUSLY it's bad for you! You're gonna be influenced to do drugs, drink alchohol, and hang around with gangstas, QUICK get in the closet so the sun doesn't freaking shine on you.
If you haven't taught your 7 year old brother by now what happens when you die... ok maybe you don't want to, but atleast tell no or something, or you don't want to tell him no?
And since when were video games NOT made for kids, thats the only friggen group their made for -_- (you know, I haven't EVER seen a AO(adult only) rating on a game, much less a mmo)
You sir, need to die a very. Very. Painfull death.
I don't want morons in my MMOs. If your brother is so uneducated to believe that you come back to life in an instant and in current form, simply tell him that you don't He should understand.
I don't learn anything "bad" from games. I learn "bad" things when my mom is watching Sex in the City in the living room. You have no idea how this world works, and you frankly cant see the minds of a child. Stop trying to suckup to Hillary and gain your own opinions. I just hope when I die I dont appear inside your family becuase the suffrage from your horrible parrenting would cause me to take my own life.
I choose to want to blow out your brains and slide your organs across the wall. I choose to hate you. Why? Not becuase of Runescape or some space game, oh no, but becuase of you.
I have two kids one is turning 17 in about six weeks and the other turns 18 in about 14 weeks, Teenagers, yes, well that’s a subject that can always make me Lol, lets see, 13 - 19 years old are all on the same planet, its called planet ME, and admittedly from my own experience as they get closer to 20 they are less me and begin to actually become sentient and start to understand that they are NOT the centre of the universe and that the sun does not come up in the morning because they woke up.
Games and kids, oops sorry teenagers, lets me start by saying I have a degree in Physiology and Computer Science and I can say neither equipped me to make decisions pertaining to the censoring my kids access to Video and game content, I can say that I never allowed the computers into there own bedrooms until they turned 15, and have always had a dedicated computer room which is large enough to house 13 computers and I used to regularly have 15 or so friends with there computers over from the time my son was 6 (he played network doom), and I found it was not really the computer games that were the problem it was the access to 15 adults every weekend that caused the problems, in that adults talking around kids was really a no no, the guys are all IT Professionals with kids themselves, but unfortunately the effect was with all the Adult verbal interaction it was more difficult for him to socialise with kids his own age, I suppose it can be said if my kids were some sort of social experiment then the result would be that Kids not left to there own devices on there system, with plenty of parental interaction (this is the most important part) and encouraged to participate in social events with support and managed with an extremely consistent set of rules should always turn out fine no matter what movies or games they play.
The problem is that young parents are still suffering from Me’ism, and they tend not to spend enough time with there kids and don’t treating them in a consistent way, and are so busy living there own lives they allow computers and TV’s to become the kids primary point of contact with the world because it suits them, because they are too busy living there own lives.
Originally posted by Aseenus Originally posted by Darkchronic I'm 13, I play MMOs, but I however pay for them myself, you know, with money I've earned. Makes it a lot more satisfying.
and how do you earn your money? with the money your parents give you? sorry mate thats not called earning your money, thats called "your parents" paying for you..
It's called 'newspaper round'.
Edit to expand: Yes, I work, it may not be very difficult, or really worth doing, but I do it because at the age I am, having money allows me to do things I would not be able to do without it. Playing MMOs is one of them. If my parents paid for me to play games, I would have said so, I didn't. I said I worked for the money I use to play MMOs, and I do.
On another point: I was playing Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas at a friend's house yesterday, it's a violent game, yes, whether I should really be playing a game with such content at my age is debatable. But I do, because I consider myself able to make decisions not influenced by a video game, just because I play a game a lot does not blur the line between reality and fantasy.
--------------------------------------- No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
Really i think gaming is vastly different from when we were 9. Back when I was that age I was playing Final Fantasy and Super Mario Bros. You couldn't quite get too violent with 8bits because not matter how you looked at it, it didn't look real at all. Even Doom was super cheesy graphics. Today however, everything wants to be too real in the gore and sex department. We have to see a guy getting his head blown off instead of the old, he got shot and drops to the ground. As for sex, I can't really remeber having ANY in the games I played. If it was there then it was in the text and I didn't get it or it was implied.
Really I think we emphasize violence over sex too much. Having sex never really hurt anybody (you might have gotten pregnant, but still you'll live). However the violence I see IS emulated by kids and the words that go with it are as well. That video that was posted is proof of it.
I also find it sad that parents won't parent. They cater to the kid and then blame the comapnies when there kid gets all defective. If I was that parent in the video I would have ripped the power cord from the wall and smacked his ass around the room.
Originally posted by Aseenus Originally posted by gnappa 18 years of experience and already knows everything. I remember those days. Thanks for the advice, but I am pretty sure I can manage without your insight. Enjoy college and let us know what it is like when you get your first job.
iv finished school, been through 3 jobs and now am working as a 3D graphics designer for a small graphics company, i really dont care how old you claim you are but the way your speaking you are no more then 14 thank you..
What's funny is the 13-year-old types better than you do, and you're supposedly all educated and employed and crap. Heh.
Even funnier is how stupid you are for thinking that a 13-year-old somehow can't be motivated to work and earn money. You must have had a lot of rather spoiled children around you as a child. I can see how that would cause you to be ignorant and prejudiced about children's mental or emotional capabilities. However, if you really were all worldly and experienced, you would see that your experiences do not necessarily have anything to do with the rest of the world.
Your logic is flawed and superficial. By your reasoning, if you saw a child being abused in some way by their parent, all parents must therefore be potentially abusive, and therefore nobody should be allowed to raise a child.
If you are an adult, I can see exactly why you think the way you do. Your typing, your lack of reason and good sense, and your general hostility indicate that you would definitely seek an easy source of a child's bad behavior. Nevermind bad parenting, a negative school environment, harrassment by peers, hormones, or the dozens of factors that might drive a child to do bad things. No, it's easier for you to say, "Oh, all our woes are the cause of various forms of entertainment that put bad ideas into our kids' heads. Therefore, the solution is to artificially enact government to usurp a parent's better judgement, and flat refuse any child to be exposed to what a few politicians and/or bureaucrats deem 'inappropriate'."
The evil of this philosophy is apparent when it becomes clear that it removes the most basic, natural duty of a parent: to see to the education, health, and progress of their offspring, from child to adult. That you would even think of advocating such a position is beyond ridiculous, and borders on infuriating.
Sir, I pray to God you never try to tell me how I and my wife shall or shall not raise our child. Maybe we will let them play MMOs, or maybe not. That's for us to decide. So long as the child's health, mental and physical, is ensured, then it's really not your, or anyone else's, business.
So go shag yourself, pal. I played all those violent video games, watched horror movies, etc. ad endless nauseum. And just like every other kid, some who did the same things as me, some who didn't, I occasionally had moments I felt like I wanted to do bad things. Unlike the very few kids who have done bad things (like shooting up schools or overdosing on drugs), I actually had parents, family, and friends who gave half a damn about me and guided me away from doing such things.
If my kid thinks they want to do the same things I did, at the age I did them, and I think they're ready to try them, maybe they will be allowed to.
I'll be sure to call you up and let you know how it turns out. Until then, keep your insane rhetoric to yourself, and spare us the diatribe.
For those who were saying "You are only 18 and don't tell me how to raise my children" - you are the most ignorant people here, because you are the kind of people that go crazy when someone tries to tell you how to do something, whether that person is right or wrong, you will continue in you own way. The guy was just trying to start a discussion, give advice and maybe take advice, no need to go berserk on him and tell him he is not right just because you are older and you are smarter.
To that person whose kid is 6 years old - I don't understand why you are so mad, cause I'd say raising a "good" 6 year old is not rocket science. Children from 1 - 6 will do whatever you want them to do, wait till your kids are 14 or 18, then you will know how it is to raise your kids. Imho. I'm not saying I had lots of experience.
To those that said games are not for kids - Christ, I would kill myself if I continued playing when I'm over 20. To be completely honest with you guys - I think people who continue playing after 20 or max 30 are complete loosers and geeks whose life is a misery and they like playing games, simply because, they have actually achieved more in the game than in real life. Games are for kids and teens. 10 - 18 more or less. The ages varies with the ability of the kid himself.
To that guy that started his post with word "I got a degree in this and this" - mate, what uni is that? Cause I've seen Global Finances being thaught in unis where you need to get over 10% in your exams. So please specify which uni exactly is that and name its place in the your contries league table. If you know it is crap, then just be quiet next time, cause it looks silly.
To that kid (sorry I call everyone, even myself, "kid") who talked about balance and maturity - damn right, 100%, I think exactly the same. There is nothing wrong with seeing heads blown off, as long as you don't watch it 18 hours a day and when you stop playing you go do something else, you have other interests and other important work that you can set your mind on. Think you are one of the most mature people here.
To that person that said something along the lines of "How do you earn your money? Your parents give you the money, that is not called earning money mate" - please shut up, stop being a ****head and assume you know everything.
To all those of you western people - your lives and your children are already sheltered enough from the world...believe me. You only see the things on TV, you never experience them and you are already scared. I think that most of western boys grow up as cowards and not men. Especially this applies to Americans, cause - guys, you live in the best country, on average you have much, much...much more than most people in the world, you are much more protected from the world than anyone else, so I'd say - let your children get on with their own lives from an early age. Maybe then they will learn to be responsible and live on their own.
To those people that don't allow their children to watch certain movies and to people that restrict childrens access to internet and games and computers - why? why do you do this?? What is there so horrible there? News of people getting killed? Porn? Well, if your child is mature enough, he won't like it, trust me. The way my parents brought me up, I feel sick after 30 seconds, and I just don't "enjoy", if you can apply this word to watching porn, watching it, therefore I don't download it. I think it is very good that I had an option whether to do it or not, I chose one thing, to do it, cause it is something new, I watched it, analysed it maturely and objectively and made my own decision.
To that guy whose 20 year olds just realised that the sun does not rise because they woke up. Christ. No wonder they couldn't handle a computer until they turned 15. 20!!! 20 YEARS OLD, and your children just realised that THEY ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE????!!! Are you kidding me??! Has the western world GONE COMPLETELY INSANE???! To me, it's just like saying - hey! My son is 20 and he doesn't piss himself anymore!!! Wow!! Isn't he a genius?? Christ................
And for that person that said that you have to be pretty clued up and around the age of 18 to play EVE... well... I think any game is as simple as ABC, mmorpgs like EVE go as far as maybe ABCDEF, but that's it. You do not have to be a genious to figure things out in games, and if you really do struggle with games, then - hell, I just don't know how you will do in real life.
Good points I think were also the ones about learning English and socialising with people from all over the world. Kids definitely should have access to games because of these two things. I totally agree with that post.
But, whoever said that MMOs have taught him a lot about buying and who claimed to be "the best buyer out there" or something - stop chatting crap, if u'd have any good idea about how to buy and sell then you would be a millionaire and wouldn't be playing computer games. Try being a stock broker, those are the people that know how to buy and sell...
And I can't really see how MMOs can teach you to socialse in real life... I'd say a dialogue or an argument with a real person will teach you more than 10 years of playing MMOs...
And also - I just remembered two examples of adult "maturity" in games. Heard a story from a 27 or something year old about how he was lvl 60 in WoW and didn't know what else to do in the game, so he picked some lvl 1 character and killed him. When that person resurrected, he killed him again and again and again, until that person stopped playing for a few days. Then he kept on doing this until the person simply stoped playing the game. (I don't remember the story in great detail, this is just the outline). And another example, is an article I read in a PC gamer once, about a guy who fell in love with another man-played woman charater in WoW and when he told him and although his character was a woman, he was actually a man, the other guy was reaaaaally upset (can't remember exactly what he did). Therefore, I totally agree with the person who said that it is the maturity, not the age that is important. And I just think that the idea of young = immature just does not work nowadays. Children vary GREATLY in their maturity, although they might be of the same age.
P.S. Oh, and btw, since we are talking about age here - I'm 17.
Adults - try to be mature enough not to just shout out - "Your should die a painful death" or something like that... But please tell me everything you think about me, cause I myself hate people who just post something and say - "This is what I think and I don't care what you tell me" so please feel free to critisice...
And one more thing - Games were made for children, then the "mature" adults started playing them, which made the companies make "more mature games". Think about it. What I can see from this is that the only part of the adults that play games are the most immature adults, so please, don't go on about having degrees, changing jobs, raising children and how mature you all are.
And, sorry one last thing, I didn't quite get the part where people show their maturity by saying how many jobs they've changed, well hell, does that show just how immature you are?
And just one final thing - That which does not kill me, can only make me stronger. Think about it.
For those who were saying "You are only 18 and don't tell me how to raise my children" - you are the most ignorant people here, because you are the kind of people that go crazy when someone tries to tell you how to do something, whether that person is right or wrong, you will continue in you own way. The guy was just trying to start a discussion, give advice and maybe take advice, no need to go berserk on him and tell him he is not right just because you are older and you are smarter.
Uh, no, actually he said:
Look, maybe it’s ok with you but I am very much against it!
He was trying to advance his silly ideas, based in no way on any logical argument that games make kids more violent. That theory has been beaten to death. It's as stupid as the idea that rock or rap makes otherwise normal kids violent.
To that person whose kid is 6 years old - I don't understand why you are so mad, cause I'd say raising a "good" 6 year old is not rocket science. Children from 1 - 6 will do whatever you want them to do, wait till your kids are 14 or 18, then you will know how it is to raise your kids. Imho. I'm not saying I had lots of experience.
Which is precisely why you, and the OP, have no business telling folks what is or isn't good for kids. I sure as hell don't, despite personal misgivings, lecture someone on what to do or not to do, and am loathe to give advice that might be crap.
I know it's impossible to hold to the notion that children, like any human being, are individuals who have different needs from other children, and don't always respond the same way to the same stimuli or experiences, but try to anyway, if it's possible.
To those that said games are not for kids - Christ, I would kill myself if I continued playing when I'm over 20. To be completely honest with you guys - I think people who continue playing after 20 or max 30 are complete loosers and geeks whose life is a misery and they like playing games, simply because, they have actually achieved more in the game than in real life. Games are for kids and teens. 10 - 18 more or less. The ages varies with the ability of the kid himself.
Ah, so now those of us who aren't kids and play games here on MMORPG.COM are losers and geeks whose life is misery?
Man. You are so rational and well-spoken. I would bow to your debate... except you just insulted at least half the people here by stereotyping us, like some ignorant bigot. Good job, there.
To that guy that started his post with word "I got a degree in this and this" - mate, what uni is that? Cause I've seen Global Finances being thaught in unis where you need to get over 10% in your exams. So please specify which uni exactly is that and name its place in the your contries league table. If you know it is crap, then just be quiet next time, cause it looks silly.
As compared to stereotyping every human, child or adult, who plays games?
Oh, yeah. We sure do take you seriously, let me tell you...
To that kid (sorry I call everyone, even myself, "kid") who talked about balance and maturity - damn right, 100%, I think exactly the same. There is nothing wrong with seeing heads blown off, as long as you don't watch it 18 hours a day and when you stop playing you go do something else, you have other interests and other important work that you can set your mind on. Think you are one of the most mature people here.
One's hobby is zero indication of their actual maturity. If he stops playing games to basically go sleep around with random girls, booze up and break the law, I could hardly say that's "better" behavior any way you look at it.
To that person that said something along the lines of "How do you earn your money? Your parents give you the money, that is not called earning money mate" - please shut up, stop being a ****head and assume you know everything.
On this one point, I find myself in agreement with you. This one point.
To all those of you western people - your lives and your children are already sheltered enough from the world...believe me. You only see the things on TV, you never experience them and you are already scared. I think that most of western boys grow up as cowards and not men.
Oh, yay! Now we're, let's see, losers, geeks whose life is a misery, sheltered, and cowards!
You know, never let it be said that some Europeans can't be bigoted trash like some of us Americans are accused of being.
Easy to call people half a world away cowards, sitting comfortably in your little glory hole over there. Takes a real big man to fling insults around on the interweb. I'm impressed.
No, wait. Not impressed. The opposite. Disappointed. As one would be with... well, with a child who has acted badly and seems not to know any better.
Especially this applies to Americans, cause - guys, you live in the best country, on average you have much, much...much more than most people in the world, you are much more protected from the world than anyone else, so I'd say - let your children get on with their own lives from an early age. Maybe then they will learn to be responsible and live on their own.
Yeah, because we don't have poverty here in our own country, or violent crime, or oppressive politicians and conservative activisits who try to erode our rights when given half a chance, right? I mean, American's the f***ing Promised Land, where nothing is ever wrong.
Whatever. You are without a doubt the most ignorant non-American I've had the displeasure to hear stereotype anybody.
To those people that don't allow their children to watch certain movies and to people that restrict childrens access to internet and games and computers - why? why do you do this?? What is there so horrible there? News of people getting killed? Porn? Well, if your child is mature enough, he won't like it, trust me. The way my parents brought me up, I feel sick after 30 seconds, and I just don't "enjoy", if you can apply this word to watching porn, watching it, therefore I don't download it. I think it is very good that I had an option whether to do it or not, I chose one thing, to do it, cause it is something new, I watched it, analysed it maturely and objectively and made my own decision.
You make the repetitive, classic mistake: equating your childhood development to all children. Sad to say, you can in no way prove children develop the same way as any other child does. I'm sure it must seem shocking that individual human beings, even us lowly sheltered Americans, respond differently during our upbringing to various things, but allow me to assure you that this is the case.
I'm glad your parents raised you right. Mine did, as well. They didn't shelter me, either. I was told of all the horrible things in the world. But I also was made to learn the value of doing good things for others, from my time in the Boy Scouts, to the volunteer fire department my parents were active in.
I'm glad, in a way, that the rest of the world prefers to see Americans only by the actions of our democratically-elected leaders, whom we certainly do not agree with the policies of. I'm glad they ignore the enormous charity and other works we promote to the betterment of other people, giving vast wealth away, even while our own country continues to have the exact same problems of others with regards to crime, poverty, and civil justice.
I'm glad, because it reminds me that all humans, both those here around me and those in remote places I've never been to, can be bigoted, ignorant, and small-minded. This is good because it makes me appreciate what I've got all the better, and that my little patch of grass may not be the greenest, but it's mine and I can stand on it.
P.S. Oh, and btw, since we are talking about age here - I'm 17.
Explains everything.
Adults - try to be mature enough not to just shout out - "Your should die a painful death" or something like that... But please tell me everything you think about me, cause I myself hate people who just post something and say - "This is what I think and I don't care what you tell me" so please feel free to critisice...
I think you are the one who is small-minded and sheltered. I think you look on your TV or other media, and instead of seeing anything good an American has done, you just hear the words of politicians, which universally, in all countries, is absolutely untrustworthy. I think you have maligned my country, and fellow citizens, in ways that I hardly thought capable of people in a part of the world I had, until the past few years, considered more cultured and educated than this.
Sir, you offend me. You call me a coward behind a facade of electrons, without the decency to fly over here, drive to my home, knock on my door, and at least tell me to my face, personally, man to man, that I am a coward, so I can attempt to rectify your erroneous assumptions. Who, then, is the bigger coward here?
You are the worst example of a human being from whatever place you come from I have seen. I pray to God you are no example for the rest of your country, for if so, I would just as well somebody nuked your patch of dirt down to smoldering glassy ruin.
In other words... your mother.
And one more thing - Games were made for children, then the "mature" adults started playing them, which made the companies make "more mature games". Think about it. What I can see from this is that the only part of the adults that play games are the most immature adults, so please, don't go on about having degrees, changing jobs, raising children and how mature you all are.
Gaming is a hobby. Just like model railroads or miniature wargames or painting. You can go on all you want about the "maturity" of someone engaged in any hobby, but it's a stupid, trite, and foundless argument in the whole.
Try again. I would hope that someone as eloquent as you have been would be a bit better at this, but perhaps I am woefully mistaken.
And, sorry one last thing, I didn't quite get the part where people show their maturity by saying how many jobs they've changed, well hell, does that show just how immature you are?
Nope. Just possibly smarter for looking for better and better money. Maybe you'd be content to barely paying the bills and all, but some of us seek upward mobility.
Thank you. Feel free to kill me.
Thank you. Feel free to kill me.
Thank you. Feel free to kill me.
Thank you. Feel free to kill me.
Kill you? Oh, that's really just too much! You place far more importance on yourself than most of us care to try and give any creedance to.
I'd rather you live, with all your misconceptions and lack of any useful knowledge. I can point to you and tell my friends, "See? They've got their own version of rednecks in that part of the world, too! Don't you feel good that they ain't any better than we are?"
Carry on, child. Carry on.
P.S. Formatting is all funked up. Tried to clean up the extra lines and such, but no dice. Probably the stupidity of it all infecting the boards...
Yeah, your first point is true, just as mine is. Can't see how they link together though. I said people say they are not ignorant, but when someone even implies some kind of advice - they just turn around and say "I know better anyway. Lallalala, I'm not listeining. Whatever you say. I know better."
And yes, he was trying to advance silly ideas and etc. I agree with you.
I never said I have a lot of experience in raising children, but what I was trying to say in the second part was that those people who have raised 6 year olds and also think they know it all - aren't right to tell that 18 year old to shut up and say "I've raised (big emphaisis) A 6 YEAR OLD! I'm a genius, so you can't tell me anything. Don't even think about giving me advice".
And I don't understand why one person can't give advice to other about raising children (ANY two people that is, not myself giving advice, cause that would be stupid) There are definitely some parents who are better and some who have a lot to learn from those better parents.
About loosers and geeks, I just said what I thought. I know it is probably not true and wrong, but somehow that is just what I think. Maybe it is because I'm from a very remote region of the world and I never seen adults play computer games, mainly because they can hardly get enough money to feed themselves even if they work 18 hours a day. I mean, I never seen a truly well educated and successful person playing games, and that is why I don't understand how people can say - games are not for children. And also, I just can't understand, how computer games can interest mature men... Basically - what I think is, games are very simple, all of them. Simple as ABC. People are often judged by their hobbies, so an adult, that plays computer games just doesn't seem to me to be a great intellectual. I'm not saying they are all idiots but... I just do think this... Maybe you can try telling me why you play games, not just tell me i'm wrong and you are right.
No I'm not rational and well spoken. You shouldn't bow to me, I don't deserve that. You are well spoken though, don't know about rational though.
I never said that guy should stop playing games and start breaking the law - read that part again. And that obviously isn't a better behaviour, I never said that, so don't make things up.
Good that we agree on something.
I didn't say Americans are bad in every way and I don't think you guys have no problems. You obviously do, but you hardly have any idea what other people have to endure. Americans rarely travel outside US and they've been isolated for a very long time. But I'm not saying - all Americans are bad, fat and stupid. Never said that. Cowards - yes, not you in particular, great if you are not, but since the time I started living in Europe and got to know the boys all around Europe, I've seen nothing but showing off all the time and boasting of how good they are at everything. I didn't mean to insult you. And I do not want to you to think that I can't confront you in the open. If we met, I'd tell you exactly the same. But! I do not mean YOU in particular, it's just my view. Maybe you are not a coward, maybe you are, I just don't know.
I'm sorry... Poverty in US?? Violent Crime?? Oppressive Politicians?? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but trust me, you've never seen REAL poverty, REAL violent crimes and REAL oppressive politicians.
You just didn't get me right there. I never said America was all crap and all Americans are crap. I never said that and I certainly don't think so. Please read my post again.
Democraticly elected leaders, with whose policies you don't agree?? How does that work? I think there is a contradiction there... if not - explain.
I'm not ignorant of Americans helping the world. It might actually seem very strange to you, but whenever there is a discussion somewhere, where people say how crap Americans are, I'm one of the only people who openly stand up for Americans. They are definitely doing a great job and they are helping a lot of people, even though they reaaaally don't have to.
Hmmm, according to you, I have enough guts to call you a coward only because we will never meet each other. Well, it must take an even more brave and mature person to tell me that I'm the worst human being you ever met, that my country should be nuked and the rest of it... Contradicting yourself? Just remember - you called me the worst human being, judging by one single post on the internet... hmmm... as you said "Explains everything".
Telling me to fly over to your house is just idiotic. You know exactly why I'm not able to do this and why I won't do this. Here, just here, you behave like that guy who we both agree on.
No need to call me Sir, I'm too young for that.
Hmm, dunno, maybe you are right, I can accept adults constructing railroads, but for some strange reason, I can't accept them playing computer games. And, just before I continue - I'm not trying to insult everybody, you in particular or America, please don't think so... I just say what I think, even if I know it's wrong. Please do expaing things and prove me wrong... PLEASE DO... I knew I'd be killed for that post, that's why I wrote feel free to kill me, but, I hope people will at least try and understand me... It might seem weird to you, but try to think of me more as a person that wants to learn, rather than the one that doesn't. And don't take things so personally.
Don't worry about the formating, it alright, mine isn't great, but I tried to reply to your words as I read your post... Hope it is not too confusing...
And about the fact that I put myself above others. You do just the same. Everyone always does. You can't argue with someone and show the other person you are below them... that's just stupid and you know it. So don't blame me for that. It's only natural. I don't necessarily think that what I said is 100% right, it's just my personal opinion.
And about changing jobs - yes, you are right, just like I am. The reason I said that was because changing jobs can mean both things - being fired and looking for something better. So I don't understand how people can say - I changed 10 jobs and therefore I'm more mature than a person that just changed 3... it's just doesn't seem right to me.
Didn't quite get what this applies to - "in other word... your mother"?
Your notion of being in Boy Scouts is, I think, silly. It teaches you very little.
And one last thing - try not being so defensive... Make this a DISCUSSION, not an ARGUMENT. Or try at least, ok?
Originally posted by Lallante I think a big point that is being missed is not that MMORPGs are bad for kids, but that kids are bad for MMORPGs.
It's why I love eve so much; its pretty exceptional that someone under 18 can deal with the complexity, knowledge required and pacing.
Yes, it is far better when adults act like children instead of children acting like children.
....
As for MMOGs being violent... if that is your concern as a parent, then your child is in horrible hands and you should call CPS. Oh noes, little Jimmy hit something with a sword! Yeah, thats the really important issue there, not the fact that youre essentially throwing your kid in a game with TENS OF FUCKING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE YOU DONT KNOW, AND NOT BEING FUCKING ABLE TO MONITOR HIS CHATS.
Why dont you just set up the mall meeting with a level-3 sex offender yourself and cut out the middleman.
Originally posted by Makane I will not let my son play MMOs strictly because I know the type of people which they could encounter while playing. I have come across very foul-mouthed, sex-craved,
How do you think the kids talks to eachother in school? no swearing and no sexual words at all?
(atleast in our school we were foul-mouthed so i guess its like that in any normal schools)
Comments
But even with all of that said - I *would* pay for my child to play a MMO, if they were:
a) Doing well in school
b) Mature enough to handle a MMO, and
c) Willing to play with me and their father, for the most part, as a family activity. Because unless they start making rated PG servers, or separate Family only or Teen friendly servers, I just wouldn't feel comfortable letting my child hang out with grown strangers (or heck, teenage strangers) without my or my husband's supervision.
OP's post is utter crap in my opinion.
MMO's help teach kids about life. Beielive it or not, MMO's are great learning tools. You learn about how to treat new people; how to react and how people react to different situations - the wide variety of temperaments out there. I was 12 when I started playing my first MMO, Asheron's Call, and then proceeded through DAOC. DAOC especially has taught me how to handle money. I know when to save and when to buy. Im actually one of the best buyers that are out there and I use my money in a smart way. Ive actually learned a bit of bargaining skills as well...getting those items needs a bit of negotiation tacticts, and MMOs helped me hone in my charm.
Violence in videogame is also crap. Go look at movies. Hell I just saw one yesterday that had more graphic scenes in it then all my days of playing WoW combined. Really folks, get real here. Tried of the kids? I actually kind of enjoy them. I would get bored on an Adult server - why? Because Id get tired of being SO mature. Everyone in the "mature" enviorment are so worried about being immature its no fun. And then you get the stuck up know it alls who direct groups for raiding and farming like theyre a General of an army. Having some kiddies around gives variety and a balance.
Sincerely,
Dr. Steelarm.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
your all talking how mmo's and viloence in movies and games doesnt affect kids right?
why do games + movies have rating on them, there not there for show, they are there for a reason.. think about it!
flame me all you want, but in reality you flaming me is not going to change the fact that kids do have nightmares and exposing a few things like this is not good for them! maybe you dont realise that this is an issue.. maybe they dont show you that they are scared or frightened.. ill tell you one thing that will get you thinking..
87% of american kids are over average weight
now think about it
do you want a fat kid? you might say being fat isnt a problem, who cares about looks right? im not talking about looks my friend im talking about health.. being over weight is a health issue! ask any GP.. any GP in the world and i will bet as much money as you want that they will agree with me on this!
Like someone previously said, MMO's have taught me alot more than if I hadn't played them. I learn how to control money, how to accept the consquences of things I have done wrong, how to accept responsibility and deal with it,how people react,how people act,how people think.
There are ratings on games and movies etc so people know what to expect.
You may think that video games,movies etc have a "bad effect" on kids who are "too young".
I also think you're abit of an ignorant retard,now think about that.
Oh gosh, I said retard, bet if I had never played video games I wouldn't have known that word existed.
I couldn't agree with you more here. I think you are spot on that it backfires. There are more words used in schoolyards than you'll ever see in any MMORPG, sheltering a child from this is almost tantamount to lying to the child.
Here's what gets me right in the irony...Game companies that have strict "no offensive name" or "bad word" policies on a game where the object is to kill each other. It's ok to blow up your enemy with a rocket launcher, splattering his blood and guts all over the place, but don't use any naughty words doing it! This leads to comedic scenes like:
*BLAM*
"Oh peanuts, Fuzzy Bunny. You've gibbed me again. My blood and guts are spattered all over the place, golly!"
"Better luck next time Happy Shiny Soldier. Keep practicing! Maybe someday you will actually kill me."
"Yeah Fuzzy Bunny, it really makes me very gosh darn mad that I cant kill you. I mean, fiddlesticks."
things up... these aren’t for kids, when people like me kill something
in a game I think "ok I just killed a demon.. its a game woopdy doo"
when a kid plays they think "OMG IM KILLING THINGS!!!!" my 7 year old
brother played WoW for a few hours while I went out.. I came back and
he said "when you die do you go back to your body and come back to
life" after this I never let him play a game again!"
^-- This is what's wrong with adults today. OMGOOS you SAW something, OBVIOUSLY it's bad for you! You're gonna be influenced to do drugs, drink alchohol, and hang around with gangstas, QUICK get in the closet so the sun doesn't freaking shine on you.
If you haven't taught your 7 year old brother by now what happens when you die... ok maybe you don't want to, but atleast tell no or something, or you don't want to tell him no?
And since when were video games NOT made for kids, thats the only friggen group their made for -_-
(you know, I haven't EVER seen a AO(adult only) rating on a game, much less a mmo)
IBTL
?played: Nearly everything.
?waiting: *Darkfall*, Hero''s Journey
I don't want morons in my MMOs. If your brother is so uneducated to believe that you come back to life in an instant and in current form, simply tell him that you don't He should understand.
I don't learn anything "bad" from games. I learn "bad" things when my mom is watching Sex in the City in the living room. You have no idea how this world works, and you frankly cant see the minds of a child. Stop trying to suckup to Hillary and gain your own opinions. I just hope when I die I dont appear inside your family becuase the suffrage from your horrible parrenting would cause me to take my own life.
I choose to want to blow out your brains and slide your organs across the wall. I choose to hate you. Why? Not becuase of Runescape or some space game, oh no, but becuase of you.
Cows
There is no easy answer to when or even if a child should be allowed to play any game, MMO or otherwise.
People need to quit looking for blanket "yes" and "no" answers, and focus only on what their own chlid needs/wants. It would be nice, for a change.
I have two kids one is turning 17 in about six weeks and the other turns 18 in about 14 weeks, Teenagers, yes, well that’s a subject that can always make me Lol, lets see, 13 - 19 years old are all on the same planet, its called planet ME, and admittedly from my own experience as they get closer to 20 they are less me and begin to actually become sentient and start to understand that they are NOT the centre of the universe and that the sun does not come up in the morning because they woke up.
Games and kids, oops sorry teenagers, lets me start by saying I have a degree in Physiology and Computer Science and I can say neither equipped me to make decisions pertaining to the censoring my kids access to Video and game content, I can say that I never allowed the computers into there own bedrooms until they turned 15, and have always had a dedicated computer room which is large enough to house 13 computers and I used to regularly have 15 or so friends with there computers over from the time my son was 6 (he played network doom), and I found it was not really the computer games that were the problem it was the access to 15 adults every weekend that caused the problems, in that adults talking around kids was really a no no, the guys are all IT Professionals with kids themselves, but unfortunately the effect was with all the Adult verbal interaction it was more difficult for him to socialise with kids his own age, I suppose it can be said if my kids were some sort of social experiment then the result would be that Kids not left to there own devices on there system, with plenty of parental interaction (this is the most important part) and encouraged to participate in social events with support and managed with an extremely consistent set of rules should always turn out fine no matter what movies or games they play.
The problem is that young parents are still suffering from Me’ism, and they tend not to spend enough time with there kids and don’t treating them in a consistent way, and are so busy living there own lives they allow computers and TV’s to become the kids primary point of contact with the world because it suits them, because they are too busy living there own lives.
Sorry about the long post
and how do you earn your money? with the money your parents give you? sorry mate thats not called earning your money, thats called "your parents" paying for you..
It's called 'newspaper round'.
Edit to expand: Yes, I work, it may not be very difficult, or really worth doing, but I do it because at the age I am, having money allows me to do things I would not be able to do without it. Playing MMOs is one of them. If my parents paid for me to play games, I would have said so, I didn't. I said I worked for the money I use to play MMOs, and I do.
On another point: I was playing Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas at a friend's house yesterday, it's a violent game, yes, whether I should really be playing a game with such content at my age is debatable. But I do, because I consider myself able to make decisions not influenced by a video game, just because I play a game a lot does not blur the line between reality and fantasy.
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No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
Really I think we emphasize violence over sex too much. Having sex never really hurt anybody (you might have gotten pregnant, but still you'll live). However the violence I see IS emulated by kids and the words that go with it are as well. That video that was posted is proof of it.
I also find it sad that parents won't parent. They cater to the kid and then blame the comapnies when there kid gets all defective. If I was that parent in the video I would have ripped the power cord from the wall and smacked his ass around the room.
What's funny is the 13-year-old types better than you do, and you're supposedly all educated and employed and crap. Heh.
Even funnier is how stupid you are for thinking that a 13-year-old somehow can't be motivated to work and earn money. You must have had a lot of rather spoiled children around you as a child. I can see how that would cause you to be ignorant and prejudiced about children's mental or emotional capabilities. However, if you really were all worldly and experienced, you would see that your experiences do not necessarily have anything to do with the rest of the world.
Your logic is flawed and superficial. By your reasoning, if you saw a child being abused in some way by their parent, all parents must therefore be potentially abusive, and therefore nobody should be allowed to raise a child.
If you are an adult, I can see exactly why you think the way you do. Your typing, your lack of reason and good sense, and your general hostility indicate that you would definitely seek an easy source of a child's bad behavior. Nevermind bad parenting, a negative school environment, harrassment by peers, hormones, or the dozens of factors that might drive a child to do bad things. No, it's easier for you to say, "Oh, all our woes are the cause of various forms of entertainment that put bad ideas into our kids' heads. Therefore, the solution is to artificially enact government to usurp a parent's better judgement, and flat refuse any child to be exposed to what a few politicians and/or bureaucrats deem 'inappropriate'."
The evil of this philosophy is apparent when it becomes clear that it removes the most basic, natural duty of a parent: to see to the education, health, and progress of their offspring, from child to adult. That you would even think of advocating such a position is beyond ridiculous, and borders on infuriating.
Sir, I pray to God you never try to tell me how I and my wife shall or shall not raise our child. Maybe we will let them play MMOs, or maybe not. That's for us to decide. So long as the child's health, mental and physical, is ensured, then it's really not your, or anyone else's, business.
So go shag yourself, pal. I played all those violent video games, watched horror movies, etc. ad endless nauseum. And just like every other kid, some who did the same things as me, some who didn't, I occasionally had moments I felt like I wanted to do bad things. Unlike the very few kids who have done bad things (like shooting up schools or overdosing on drugs), I actually had parents, family, and friends who gave half a damn about me and guided me away from doing such things.
If my kid thinks they want to do the same things I did, at the age I did them, and I think they're ready to try them, maybe they will be allowed to.
I'll be sure to call you up and let you know how it turns out. Until then, keep your insane rhetoric to yourself, and spare us the diatribe.
Hmm,
For those who were saying "You are only 18 and don't tell me how to raise my children" - you are the most ignorant people here, because you are the kind of people that go crazy when someone tries to tell you how to do something, whether that person is right or wrong, you will continue in you own way. The guy was just trying to start a discussion, give advice and maybe take advice, no need to go berserk on him and tell him he is not right just because you are older and you are smarter.
To that person whose kid is 6 years old - I don't understand why you are so mad, cause I'd say raising a "good" 6 year old is not rocket science. Children from 1 - 6 will do whatever you want them to do, wait till your kids are 14 or 18, then you will know how it is to raise your kids. Imho. I'm not saying I had lots of experience.
To those that said games are not for kids - Christ, I would kill myself if I continued playing when I'm over 20. To be completely honest with you guys - I think people who continue playing after 20 or max 30 are complete loosers and geeks whose life is a misery and they like playing games, simply because, they have actually achieved more in the game than in real life. Games are for kids and teens. 10 - 18 more or less. The ages varies with the ability of the kid himself.
To that guy that started his post with word "I got a degree in this and this" - mate, what uni is that? Cause I've seen Global Finances being thaught in unis where you need to get over 10% in your exams. So please specify which uni exactly is that and name its place in the your contries league table. If you know it is crap, then just be quiet next time, cause it looks silly.
To that kid (sorry I call everyone, even myself, "kid") who talked about balance and maturity - damn right, 100%, I think exactly the same. There is nothing wrong with seeing heads blown off, as long as you don't watch it 18 hours a day and when you stop playing you go do something else, you have other interests and other important work that you can set your mind on. Think you are one of the most mature people here.
To that person that said something along the lines of "How do you earn your money? Your parents give you the money, that is not called earning money mate" - please shut up, stop being a ****head and assume you know everything.
To all those of you western people - your lives and your children are already sheltered enough from the world...believe me. You only see the things on TV, you never experience them and you are already scared. I think that most of western boys grow up as cowards and not men. Especially this applies to Americans, cause - guys, you live in the best country, on average you have much, much...much more than most people in the world, you are much more protected from the world than anyone else, so I'd say - let your children get on with their own lives from an early age. Maybe then they will learn to be responsible and live on their own.
To those people that don't allow their children to watch certain movies and to people that restrict childrens access to internet and games and computers - why? why do you do this?? What is there so horrible there? News of people getting killed? Porn? Well, if your child is mature enough, he won't like it, trust me. The way my parents brought me up, I feel sick after 30 seconds, and I just don't "enjoy", if you can apply this word to watching porn, watching it, therefore I don't download it. I think it is very good that I had an option whether to do it or not, I chose one thing, to do it, cause it is something new, I watched it, analysed it maturely and objectively and made my own decision.
To that guy whose 20 year olds just realised that the sun does not rise because they woke up. Christ. No wonder they couldn't handle a computer until they turned 15. 20!!! 20 YEARS OLD, and your children just realised that THEY ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE????!!! Are you kidding me??! Has the western world GONE COMPLETELY INSANE???! To me, it's just like saying - hey! My son is 20 and he doesn't piss himself anymore!!! Wow!! Isn't he a genius?? Christ................
And for that person that said that you have to be pretty clued up and around the age of 18 to play EVE... well... I think any game is as simple as ABC, mmorpgs like EVE go as far as maybe ABCDEF, but that's it. You do not have to be a genious to figure things out in games, and if you really do struggle with games, then - hell, I just don't know how you will do in real life.
Good points I think were also the ones about learning English and socialising with people from all over the world. Kids definitely should have access to games because of these two things. I totally agree with that post.
But, whoever said that MMOs have taught him a lot about buying and who claimed to be "the best buyer out there" or something - stop chatting crap, if u'd have any good idea about how to buy and sell then you would be a millionaire and wouldn't be playing computer games. Try being a stock broker, those are the people that know how to buy and sell...
And I can't really see how MMOs can teach you to socialse in real life... I'd say a dialogue or an argument with a real person will teach you more than 10 years of playing MMOs...
And also - I just remembered two examples of adult "maturity" in games. Heard a story from a 27 or something year old about how he was lvl 60 in WoW and didn't know what else to do in the game, so he picked some lvl 1 character and killed him. When that person resurrected, he killed him again and again and again, until that person stopped playing for a few days. Then he kept on doing this until the person simply stoped playing the game. (I don't remember the story in great detail, this is just the outline). And another example, is an article I read in a PC gamer once, about a guy who fell in love with another man-played woman charater in WoW and when he told him and although his character was a woman, he was actually a man, the other guy was reaaaaally upset (can't remember exactly what he did). Therefore, I totally agree with the person who said that it is the maturity, not the age that is important. And I just think that the idea of young = immature just does not work nowadays. Children vary GREATLY in their maturity, although they might be of the same age.
P.S. Oh, and btw, since we are talking about age here - I'm 17.
Adults - try to be mature enough not to just shout out - "Your should die a painful death" or something like that... But please tell me everything you think about me, cause I myself hate people who just post something and say - "This is what I think and I don't care what you tell me" so please feel free to critisice...
And one more thing - Games were made for children, then the "mature" adults started playing them, which made the companies make "more mature games". Think about it. What I can see from this is that the only part of the adults that play games are the most immature adults, so please, don't go on about having degrees, changing jobs, raising children and how mature you all are.
And, sorry one last thing, I didn't quite get the part where people show their maturity by saying how many jobs they've changed, well hell, does that show just how immature you are?
And just one final thing - That which does not kill me, can only make me stronger. Think about it.
Thank you. Feel free to kill me.
P.S. Formatting is all funked up. Tried to clean up the extra lines and such, but no dice. Probably the stupidity of it all infecting the boards...
Yeah, your first point is true, just as mine is. Can't see how they link together though. I said people say they are not ignorant, but when someone even implies some kind of advice - they just turn around and say "I know better anyway. Lallalala, I'm not listeining. Whatever you say. I know better."
And yes, he was trying to advance silly ideas and etc. I agree with you.
I never said I have a lot of experience in raising children, but what I was trying to say in the second part was that those people who have raised 6 year olds and also think they know it all - aren't right to tell that 18 year old to shut up and say "I've raised (big emphaisis) A 6 YEAR OLD! I'm a genius, so you can't tell me anything. Don't even think about giving me advice".
And I don't understand why one person can't give advice to other about raising children (ANY two people that is, not myself giving advice, cause that would be stupid) There are definitely some parents who are better and some who have a lot to learn from those better parents.
About loosers and geeks, I just said what I thought. I know it is probably not true and wrong, but somehow that is just what I think. Maybe it is because I'm from a very remote region of the world and I never seen adults play computer games, mainly because they can hardly get enough money to feed themselves even if they work 18 hours a day. I mean, I never seen a truly well educated and successful person playing games, and that is why I don't understand how people can say - games are not for children. And also, I just can't understand, how computer games can interest mature men... Basically - what I think is, games are very simple, all of them. Simple as ABC. People are often judged by their hobbies, so an adult, that plays computer games just doesn't seem to me to be a great intellectual. I'm not saying they are all idiots but... I just do think this... Maybe you can try telling me why you play games, not just tell me i'm wrong and you are right.
No I'm not rational and well spoken. You shouldn't bow to me, I don't deserve that. You are well spoken though, don't know about rational though.
I never said that guy should stop playing games and start breaking the law - read that part again. And that obviously isn't a better behaviour, I never said that, so don't make things up.
Good that we agree on something.
I didn't say Americans are bad in every way and I don't think you guys have no problems. You obviously do, but you hardly have any idea what other people have to endure. Americans rarely travel outside US and they've been isolated for a very long time. But I'm not saying - all Americans are bad, fat and stupid. Never said that. Cowards - yes, not you in particular, great if you are not, but since the time I started living in Europe and got to know the boys all around Europe, I've seen nothing but showing off all the time and boasting of how good they are at everything. I didn't mean to insult you. And I do not want to you to think that I can't confront you in the open. If we met, I'd tell you exactly the same. But! I do not mean YOU in particular, it's just my view. Maybe you are not a coward, maybe you are, I just don't know.
I'm sorry... Poverty in US?? Violent Crime?? Oppressive Politicians?? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but trust me, you've never seen REAL poverty, REAL violent crimes and REAL oppressive politicians.
You just didn't get me right there. I never said America was all crap and all Americans are crap. I never said that and I certainly don't think so. Please read my post again.
Democraticly elected leaders, with whose policies you don't agree?? How does that work? I think there is a contradiction there... if not - explain.
I'm not ignorant of Americans helping the world. It might actually seem very strange to you, but whenever there is a discussion somewhere, where people say how crap Americans are, I'm one of the only people who openly stand up for Americans. They are definitely doing a great job and they are helping a lot of people, even though they reaaaally don't have to.
Hmmm, according to you, I have enough guts to call you a coward only because we will never meet each other. Well, it must take an even more brave and mature person to tell me that I'm the worst human being you ever met, that my country should be nuked and the rest of it... Contradicting yourself? Just remember - you called me the worst human being, judging by one single post on the internet... hmmm... as you said "Explains everything".
Telling me to fly over to your house is just idiotic. You know exactly why I'm not able to do this and why I won't do this. Here, just here, you behave like that guy who we both agree on.
No need to call me Sir, I'm too young for that.
Hmm, dunno, maybe you are right, I can accept adults constructing railroads, but for some strange reason, I can't accept them playing computer games. And, just before I continue - I'm not trying to insult everybody, you in particular or America, please don't think so... I just say what I think, even if I know it's wrong. Please do expaing things and prove me wrong... PLEASE DO... I knew I'd be killed for that post, that's why I wrote feel free to kill me, but, I hope people will at least try and understand me... It might seem weird to you, but try to think of me more as a person that wants to learn, rather than the one that doesn't. And don't take things so personally.
Don't worry about the formating, it alright, mine isn't great, but I tried to reply to your words as I read your post... Hope it is not too confusing...
And about the fact that I put myself above others. You do just the same. Everyone always does. You can't argue with someone and show the other person you are below them... that's just stupid and you know it. So don't blame me for that. It's only natural. I don't necessarily think that what I said is 100% right, it's just my personal opinion.
And about changing jobs - yes, you are right, just like I am. The reason I said that was because changing jobs can mean both things - being fired and looking for something better. So I don't understand how people can say - I changed 10 jobs and therefore I'm more mature than a person that just changed 3... it's just doesn't seem right to me.
Didn't quite get what this applies to - "in other word... your mother"?
Your notion of being in Boy Scouts is, I think, silly. It teaches you very little.
And one last thing - try not being so defensive... Make this a DISCUSSION, not an ARGUMENT. Or try at least, ok?
....
As for MMOGs being violent... if that is your concern as a parent, then your child is in horrible hands and you should call CPS. Oh noes, little Jimmy hit something with a sword! Yeah, thats the really important issue there, not the fact that youre essentially throwing your kid in a game with TENS OF FUCKING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE YOU DONT KNOW, AND NOT BEING FUCKING ABLE TO MONITOR HIS CHATS.
Why dont you just set up the mall meeting with a level-3 sex offender yourself and cut out the middleman.
How do you think the kids talks to eachother in school? no swearing and no sexual words at all?
(atleast in our school we were foul-mouthed so i guess its like that in any normal schools)