Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by kaibigan34 Originally posted by Obraik
Originally posted by kaibigan34 They are releasing content purely for PVP. So Customer A who pays $14.99 a month and doesnt like SOE doesnt get this content. Customer B who pays $14.99 and loves PVP gets this content.
Its forced. Twist it however you want Obraik, as always, but its still forced. If you want to see this great wonderful content you have to PVP. Hence you are FORCED to PVP to get this. Otherwise your SOL.
Kai
And what about those that enjoy PvP, pay $15 a month and got the DWB, The Warren, the Corvette and the Geo caves? Was nothing there for them.
Those that didn't want to do that content could buy the stuff from those that did. What's so wrong with doing the same in this case?
Go SF or Overt and you can PVP in the those zones like the DWB and the Corvette. Which by the way is what a group of us did once on my old server. Imps versus rebels in the Geo Caves. Your arguement doesnt hold water. A PVP zone you cant go covert. You HAVE to accept it if you want to see this gorgeous new content that will make billions of dollars for SOE and make every veteran come crawling back.
Kai
It's PvP content, why would you want to go there if you don't want to PvP?
This is the normal Argument between PVEers and PVPers , It is bad to give PVPers something , But ok to give pver's . I guess those of us who like to pvp , Do not deserve a reward for doing so or any content of our own . /shrug
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by kaibigan34 How? He can go into the zone and not get whacked? He can enter the zone and not have to PVP? From what I read, he goes into the zone he has to accept PVP. So if he hates PVP how does it do it? Simple he is FORCED to do it if he wants this amazing content that will save the game and bring milllions of subscribers.
Kai
Well it's just semantics of course, but you make a choice whether or not to enjoy PVP or not, you still get the content, you just choose not to use it. Same as a person who dislikes PVP and plays WoW. They still get battlegrounds, they just won't use them right?
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by kaibigan34 Originally posted by Obraik
Originally posted by kaibigan34 They are releasing content purely for PVP. So Customer A who pays $14.99 a month and doesnt like SOE doesnt get this content. Customer B who pays $14.99 and loves PVP gets this content.
Its forced. Twist it however you want Obraik, as always, but its still forced. If you want to see this great wonderful content you have to PVP. Hence you are FORCED to PVP to get this. Otherwise your SOL.
Kai
And what about those that enjoy PvP, pay $15 a month and got the DWB, The Warren, the Corvette and the Geo caves? Was nothing there for them.
Those that didn't want to do that content could buy the stuff from those that did. What's so wrong with doing the same in this case?
Go SF or Overt and you can PVP in the those zones like the DWB and the Corvette. Which by the way is what a group of us did once on my old server. Imps versus rebels in the Geo Caves. Your arguement doesnt hold water. A PVP zone you cant go covert. You HAVE to accept it if you want to see this gorgeous new content that will make billions of dollars for SOE and make every veteran come crawling back.
Kai
It's PvP content, why would you want to go there if you don't want to PvP?
To see the spectacular content that, after all the failed upgrades and content before, will certainly bring SWG back from the edge.
Originally in JTL, Kessel was a PVP zone. You have to go there to get the master box. That was undoubtly forced PVP to get master pilot. We all know how well that went.
Now they offer new content in a zone that is PVP. In order to see it you have to PVP. What is the difference in those two scenarios?
Getting a master box or getting new content. Its the same thing. Slice it or spin it how you want. If you want to see this sweet new content that will save SWG single handedly then you are FORCED to PVP.
Thankfully they changed Kessel.
Look at the WoW PVP servers. You got a bunch of whackos from one side or another that sit on key locations just to prevent people from getting some item or some quest done. On the PVP server I played on, the Alliance outnumbered the Horde about 4 to 1. So the Horde never had a chance to get any elite raids or anything remotely similiar to epic gear. While the Alliance farm them regularly. Further dividing the line in the Alliance favor. And its a pain in the neck. Get a raid together only to end up losing everyone over and over thanks to these guys camping the raid spot.
That what you want in SWG? Imps camping Restuss in such huge numbers the Rebels dont stand a chance to even try to get anything done there? Or vice versa?
Of course who am I kidding. SWG hasnt had huge numbers since the NGE.
I have no problem with the Reutuss event being forced PvP. I think alot of people raising this as an issue are doing so because of SOE's no forced PvP stance they used get rid of TEFS, not so much that they have a problem with be excluded from the Restuss event, although I am sure some feel that way..
The removal of TEFs (Feb. 2005) from SWG was the beginning of the end. Just about every single change after that point was bad. Its when they decided that staying true to the Star Wars movies wasn't important. At the time, I was really in disbelief that they would make such a fundamental (and horribly stupid change. little did I know that I what horrors were in store).
In order to see anything else in the game you have to PVE so what is your point ?
Everyone talks about socialization , Like it only matters in a non combat way .I am sorry but pvp is all about social play , You have your friends and allies who you work closely with to achieve a goal .
You also Have your enemies who are doing the same thing . It makes combat in a MMO atleast in my opinion more interesting .
Look how much PVE content is in SWg . Now compare that to its GCW content .You really think it is unfair to add something like this for PVPers? It actually might be a fun place to visit as a pvper . Now if you don't like PVP . Noone said you have to go there .
If you feel you have to see the content , Most of who play are in a guild . Get some guildies together and try and go have some fun . If you don't want to hear Smacktard leet speak . Turn off say bubbles and try and have fun as a group . Experience a new playstyle you might like it .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by ShiloFields I have no problem with the Reutuss event being forced PvP. I think alot of people raising this as an issue are doing so because of SOE's no forced PvP stance they used get rid of TEFS, not so much that they have a problem with be excluded from the Restuss event, although I am sure some feel that way.. The removal of TEFs (Feb. 2005) from SWG was the beginning of the end. Just about every single change after that point was bad. Its when they decided that staying true to the Star Wars movies wasn't important. At the time, I was really in disbelief that they would make such a fundamental (and horribly stupid change. little did I know that I what horrors were in store).
I had no problem with the TEF system. I enjoyed PVP greatly. That was until Jedi started sticking their nose in it and things took a turn.
On my server it was always severely uneven in the ranks of Rebel and Imperial. It started heavily Reb favored. Then shifted to Imp, then back to Reb, then back to Imp. When Jedi lost Perma Death and Saber TEF it shifted back to Reb and stayed there. Every 3 new players, 2 would go Reb because the Rebs were winning hands down. Several Imps went Reb as well. All because the Rebs were winning. They were winning because they had the majority of jedi on their side.
You would go to raid a base. 20 Imps versus 20 Rebs. It was great. Awesome fun. That was until the group of 10+ reb jedi showed up and ganked the Imps. From then on it was a test in fruistration.
After that I grew to hate PVP. What was the point when you knew you were going to die for certain? There was no thinking "Maybe I will do good and maybe I will do bad. Who knows?" If you were Imp then you knew it would be bad. Every PVP battle became an Imperial Suicide Mission.
Then when I played WoW on a PVP server it was just more of the same. Not because they had the majority of some alpha class. But because they camped all the raids for raid gear. Alliance outnumbered Horde heavily and if you wanted to complete even a minor quest in a lowbie PVP zone you had to have a full riad contingent with you.
But at least with WoW I could shift to a PVE server and not have to deal with that. I PVPed again and loved it. Because things were more balanced.
Ever played Battlefield Vietnam when it first came out? The Ammerican side had a severe issue in their favor. The M60 and its kit was way over balanced. Because of this almost every server had twice as many americans as it did NVA. I always ended up playing NVA. Because the American side was always full. And it stank. This is the samething.
Now you want to put a forced PVP zone in a game that is clearly one side or the other. Your just adding more fuel to the "I hate PVP" fire. And the PVPers are fine with this. Most wont think this far into it. All they care about is the chance to gank some poor sod who hates PVP but wants to see all this stupendous content that will make billions for SOE.
Originally posted by iceman00 Originally posted by Shayde They should have never gotten rid of TEF's. I used to love getting both sides mad at me, then they'd shoot at each other... those were the days.
Saber TEF's too. Those plain out rocked.
They kept Jedi's honest. A player who had his saber out either had balls or a death wish. Back when it was actually an honor to see a Jedi, and one would hear rumors of Jedi sightings. Funny.. that's the way it was right around the time between Episode 4 and 5. Jedi scarce and secretive? That'd have been nice if they set SWG during that time and NOT THE FLIPPING CLONE WARS.
/SamKinison on
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAAAAA
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
In order to see anything else in the game you have to PVE so what is your point ?
Everyone talks about socialization , Like it only matters in a non combat way .I am sorry but pvp is all about social play , You have your friends and allies who you work closely with to achieve a goal .
You also Have your enemies who are doing the same thing . It makes combat in a MMO atleast in my opinion more interesting .
Look how much PVE content is in SWg . Now compare that to its GCW content .You really think it is unfair to add something like this for PVPers? It actually might be a fun place to visit as a pvper . Now if you don't like PVP . Noone said you have to go there .
If you feel you have to see the content , Most of who play are in a guild . Get some guildies together and try and go have some fun . If you don't want to hear Smacktard leet speak . Turn off say bubbles and try and have fun as a group . Experience a new playstyle you might like it .
Without a doubt, some of the most anti-social experiences I've had in game occured during PvP.
If you put in PvE quests with relevant loot and then tell people that if they want to do those quests and get that loot that they have to fight through PvP, technically it's not forced PvP but realistically speaking it is forced. Every PvE'er who wants to experience those quests and try for that loot is forced to PvP.
The "it's not forced because you don't have to choose to do those missions" argument is like saying, "no game has forced PvP because you can choose whether or not to play that game." Making people choose between PvP or be excluded from content is not giving them a real choice.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Originally posted by duggo Originally posted by Malickiebloo
In order to see anything else in the game you have to PVE so what is your point ?
Everyone talks about socialization , Like it only matters in a non combat way .I am sorry but pvp is all about social play , You have your friends and allies who you work closely with to achieve a goal .
You also Have your enemies who are doing the same thing . It makes combat in a MMO atleast in my opinion more interesting .
Look how much PVE content is in SWg . Now compare that to its GCW content .You really think it is unfair to add something like this for PVPers? It actually might be a fun place to visit as a pvper . Now if you don't like PVP . Noone said you have to go there .
If you feel you have to see the content , Most of who play are in a guild . Get some guildies together and try and go have some fun . If you don't want to hear Smacktard leet speak . Turn off say bubbles and try and have fun as a group . Experience a new playstyle you might like it .
Without a doubt, some of the most anti-social experiences I've had in game occured during PvP.
If you put in PvE quests with relevant loot and then tell people that if they want to do those quests and get that loot that they have to fight through PvP, technically it's not forced PvP but realistically speaking it is forced. Every PvE'er who wants to experience those quests and try for that loot is forced to PvP.
The "it's not forced because you don't have to choose to do those missions" argument is like saying, "no game has forced PvP because you can choose whether or not to play that game." Making people choose between PvP or be excluded from content is not giving them a real choice.
-d
You see this was my point earlier , Same old argument . You are saying it is Ok to place content on a PVE specific basis , but not on a pvp one . I do not like to PVE at all mostly due to my playstyle PRe-cu . I hated losing armor to PVE when I needed it for PVP . Credits were better spent else where for me .
Now as for your firsts sentence , If you are a PVE specific player . You may get that feeling from some of the attitudes you see in PVP . But overall the people who devote their play time to PVP , do it for the same reason people gathered in Cantinas , Or PVE guilds go on raids . It is all about playing with your friends . Now PVP players do tend to be FPS gamers as well . Atleast from my experience , Past guilds and such . So you may see leet speakers here and there , But they do not make up the majority of people who PVP .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You see this was my point earlier , Same old argument . You are saying it is Ok to place content on a PVE specific basis , but not on a pvp one . I do not like to PVE at all mostly due to my playstyle PRe-cu . I hated losing armor to PVE when I needed it for PVP . Credits were better spent else where for me .
Now as for your firsts sentence , If you are a PVE specific player . You may get that feeling from some of the attitudes you see in PVP . But overall the people who devote their play time to PVP , do it for the same reason people gathered in Cantinas , Or PVE guilds go on raids . It is all about playing with your friends . Now PVP players do tend to be FPS gamers as well . Atleast from my experience , Past guilds and such . So you may see leet speakers here and there , But they do not make up the majority of people who PVP .
But there's where the problem with this argument lies.
The PVE world is everything. The PVP world lies within the PVE world.
Unless it is an always-overt PVP server, this is the case for ALL games.
All their covert/overt hoodiehoo just muddies the issue... but basically if you put on ANY uniform you are forced to PVP in some situation somewhere. But with the servers as barren as they tend to be... if you're PVE and hate PVP, just do the quest stuff during off-peak hours. Last I heard that was 7 days a week, 23.5 hours a day.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Here is my biggest complaint about this whole PVP content thing.
NGE PVP stinks. Its more imbalanced then Pre-CU/Pre-Holo PVP ever was. Its buggy and a bunch of just blind charges into each other and he who has the best gear wins. Tactics are out the window and so is strategy. Adding PVP content to this mess is like making a table out of rotten wood and telling everyone "It will look great." BULLSPIT! The thing will fall part the first glass gets put on it. Fix PVP. Make it like it was Pre-holo and then you might have something interesting when you add PVP content. Until then your just putting carpet in an outhouse.
Old school Pre-Holo PVP (Something you will never see again)
My toon on Kauri has two bugs. Well had. One bug is a loot bug that gives me better chances at the good stuff then anyone else. The other bug was the one in question. Overt Bug. I would pop overt, usually when loading into a port, for no reason. I could be out hunting rancors and pop overt. I could be sitting in a camp on Tat and pop overt. Not tef. Full overt.
One friday afternoon, after checking harvs on Lok, I was loading into Daeric and popped overt. I think it was from the loading because no one in CNet capped me. But in the Daeric Starport were several overt rebels. They jumped me. I cloned and ran to the shuttle to get to the Imp outpost. They jumped me again. And again. Finally I ran to the IO. I talked to some Imperial mates and they were upset. The call was sent out. Several imps were prepping for an assault on AH so they were primed. They came to the IO and we got set.
My overt finally went back to covert so I was the one picked to scout the shuttleport in Daeric. When I sent them the tell that all was clear they jumped. And the war was on. It became, affectionatlly called the "Battle of Daeric"
We pushed them back to the cantina but didnt dare go inside. Back then Cantinas and Med Centers were off limits. We then pushed them back to the med center. We pulled back when we saw how close to the cloner we were. They ran into the starport and, unbeknowest to us, jumped to the shuttleport and the recruiter behind us. Rear attack. They pushed us out of Daeric. We attacked from the ground next. Legging it the entire way. We pushed them out of Daeric but they pushed back by concentrating on our left flank.
We then ran south from IO again but went around Daeric and positioned ourselves past the bridge and up the hill in the divits. Three overts went in and lured them into us. We then ran into Daeric again. And by then the battle had pretty much every Impa nd Reb onthe server I am sure.
I finally got tired and went to sleep. Logged in my house NW of Daeric. When I logged in the next day I ran to Daeric only to see yet another battle going on. I checked harvs right fast then came back, armed up, and headed to Daeric. Much to my surprise this wasnt a new battle. It was the same battle. Only time it let up was the server loading that morning. They battled for awhile and I went hunting on Dath. Came back to the same battle.
Next day I logged in and found the thing was still going on. THREE DAY BATTLE!!!! It finally ended Sunday around 8PM after a truce was made.
There were other battles similiar to this. The Tatooine War that lasted 5 days. The Moenia Raid that lasted 2 days. These are things you dont see in SWG anymore. And if they add PVP content now, while the system is so screwed up I doubt you will ever see it again.
Mark my words. It will become a deadzone or a camp zone. Either it will be like the battlefields of old where no one goes too or the dominant side on that server will rule the area. And both ways are detramental to PVP.
To see the spectacular content that, after all the failed upgrades and content before, will certainly bring SWG back from the edge.
Originally in JTL, Kessel was a PVP zone. You have to go there to get the master box. That was undoubtly forced PVP to get master pilot. We all know how well that went.
Now they offer new content in a zone that is PVP. In order to see it you have to PVP. What is the difference in those two scenarios?
Getting a master box or getting new content. Its the same thing. Slice it or spin it how you want. If you want to see this sweet new content that will save SWG single handedly then you are FORCED to PVP.
Thankfully they changed Kessel.
Look at the WoW PVP servers. You got a bunch of whackos from one side or another that sit on key locations just to prevent people from getting some item or some quest done. On the PVP server I played on, the Alliance outnumbered the Horde about 4 to 1. So the Horde never had a chance to get any elite raids or anything remotely similiar to epic gear. While the Alliance farm them regularly. Further dividing the line in the Alliance favor. And its a pain in the neck. Get a raid together only to end up losing everyone over and over thanks to these guys camping the raid spot.
That what you want in SWG? Imps camping Restuss in such huge numbers the Rebels dont stand a chance to even try to get anything done there? Or vice versa?
Of course who am I kidding. SWG hasnt had huge numbers since the NGE.
Kai
No, this isn't the same as the whole Kessell thing, you are not being restricted from getting skills or certs. There was no alternative way to get Ace without going to Kessell (or Deep Space for Imps) so if you didn't want PvP you couldn't get your Ace box, so couldn't get Mark IV equipment for your ship or fly any of the Ace ships (including PoBs). That was force PvP.
As I said, you're not being restricted from getting any skill boxes nor certs for equipment trhough this event. If you want PvE content, there are plenty of other places in the game that you can go to get it. If you want the rewards for the quest, what is so wrong with buying it from those that do? PvP'ers have been doing this for 3 years now.
This is beginning to sound alot like "I don't like PvP anymore so there shouldn't be new PvP content"
This is the first real content that SEO has added to SWG in a while. And its mostly PvP content. Sure you can argue that the quests are PvE, but you still have to enter a PvP area. And since Restuss isnt all that big of an area, I suspect alot of gank squads. Sure there will be opposing factions there trying to gank also, but it could be near impossible to complete a quest without being killed many times.
So Basicly, if you want to partake in this new content (wich most people more than likely will want to expierence the new content), you have to risk PvP. If you want to expierence the new content, but dont want to PvP..then too bad for you.
And since SOE is trying to mimic WoW we can also argue that WoW has many PvP (contested) areas where it could be considered open, forced PvP. But those areas are Huge. And also if you dont like PvP, then you dont have to choose a PvP server. You can choose a PvE server with all the same content.
So IMHO its a lose, lose situation for PvE'ers. If they want the new content they have to PvP. If they dont want to PvP they lose the content. Either way...they lose.
Originally posted by Apache_ Just my 2 cents.. This is the first real content that SEO has added to SWG in a while. And its mostly PvP content. Sure you can argue that the quests are PvE, but you still have to enter a PvP area. And since Restuss isnt all that big of an area, I suspect alot of gank squads. Sure there will be opposing factions there trying to gank also, but it could be near impossible to complete a quest without being killed many times. So Basicly, if you want to partake in this new content (wich most people more than likely will want to expierence the new content), you have to risk PvP. If you want to expierence the new content, but dont want to PvP..then too bad for you. And since SOE is trying to mimic WoW we can also argue that WoW has many PvP (contested) areas where it could be considered open, forced PvP. But those areas are Huge. And also if you dont like PvP, then you dont have to choose a PvP server. You can choose a PvE server with all the same content. So IMHO its a lose, lose situation for PvE'ers. If they want the new content they have to PvP. If they dont want to PvP they lose the content. Either way...they lose.
The final part of the event is PvP content though, it'd make no sense for a PvE'er to do it if they don't want to PvP
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by duggo Without a doubt, some of the most anti-social experiences I've had in game occured during PvP. If you put in PvE quests with relevant loot and then tell people that if they want to do those quests and get that loot that they have to fight through PvP, technically it's not forced PvP but realistically speaking it is forced. Every PvE'er who wants to experience those quests and try for that loot is forced to PvP. The "it's not forced because you don't have to choose to do those missions" argument is like saying, "no game has forced PvP because you can choose whether or not to play that game." Making people choose between PvP or be excluded from content is not giving them a real choice. -d
You see this was my point earlier , Same old argument . You are saying it is Ok to place content on a PVE specific basis , but not on a pvp one . I do not like to PVE at all mostly due to my playstyle PRe-cu . I hated losing armor to PVE when I needed it for PVP . Credits were better spent else where for me .
Now as for your firsts sentence , If you are a PVE specific player . You may get that feeling from some of the attitudes you see in PVP . But overall the people who devote their play time to PVP , do it for the same reason people gathered in Cantinas , Or PVE guilds go on raids . It is all about playing with your friends . Now PVP players do tend to be FPS gamers as well . Atleast from my experience , Past guilds and such . So you may see leet speakers here and there , But they do not make up the majority of people who PVP .
I'm not saying it's ok that PvP players are forced into PvE but not visa versa. I'm saying that the devs declared that this game is now under a "consensual PvP only" policy and yet they are introducing forced PvP in Restuss.
However, to address the part in red: If you're upset with the way PvP'ers are treated in the game, dragging PvE'ers into your misery isn't a solution. The solution is to make the developers see that people want PvP to be as independent an aspect of the game as PvE is.
The part in orange makes complete sense. My PvP experiences are far and few between and usually a result of my being dragged in kicking and screaming, but I don't doubt that PvP can be a true social experience if you allow it to be.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
I still don't think there will be any balance in PVP and the GCW. It's down to the players being responsible in how to play and that will never happen. For new PVPers it's difficult to get into with gankers etc. Npcs are better for GCW, they react, but give up if you don't want to fight and RP their role. Rp and PVP should go hand in hand, i think lot of PVPers consider other players in the same way we look at NPCs. It means nothing to kill someone for the points. I'd love all players to be overt and maybe start a row in a bar over politics, or a demeaning comment about a walking carpet. I remember a squad of player stormies in Bestine on patrol, not just killing anything that moved but doing their 'job'.
In the film Luke and Ben in Mos Eisley weren't attacked by the Stormies straight off, the Stormies didn't have radar. They weren't hunted till they broke the law in a bar fight. I don't attack my neighbours in RL for voting for the BNP (assuming they do, someone does i'm sure), but i'd sure be vocal if i heard them voice their views in a derogatory way. And i haven't had a fight since i was in school, but i'd defend myself if i needed to.
I'm in the rebel faction but PVP isn't factional, it's about who has most points. Essentially it's a free-for-all with maybe a few different bits of technology. Sadly duels with deahblow ("wait a minute m8, let me prepare") is the only way i can enjoy PVP, so i guess i'm just a part time rebel.
No, this isn't the same as the whole Kessell thing, you are not being restricted from getting skills or certs. There was no alternative way to get Ace without going to Kessell (or Deep Space for Imps) so if you didn't want PvP you couldn't get your Ace box, so couldn't get Mark IV equipment for your ship or fly any of the Ace ships (including PoBs). That was force PvP.
As I said, you're not being restricted from getting any skill boxes nor certs for equipment trhough this event. If you want PvE content, there are plenty of other places in the game that you can go to get it. If you want the rewards for the quest, what is so wrong with buying it from those that do? PvP'ers have been doing this for 3 years now.
This is beginning to sound alot like "I don't like PvP anymore so there shouldn't be new PvP content"
Yes it is the same. You just refuse to admit it.
Obviously I am going about this all wrong. Trying to talk to you like a reasonable person. So lets go through this slowly.
Kessel was once a PVP zone ok? And you have to get your master box there. Got me so far? Now that is called "forced PVP". In order to get the master box you had to engage in PVP. With me so far?
This new zone is going to be a PVP zone understand? And to experiance it, get any badges, items, etc you have to go through it also ok? Hence it is "forced PVP. In order to get any of those quests, badges, items, etc you have to engage in PVP. Can you grasp this yet?
As for buying the items from other players are they tradeable? Dont forget SOE loves to make things no trade. Especially if it forces players to have to do something for themselves. And so what if the items are tradeable. You still have to brave PVP just to see the place. Also badges arent tradeable. Neither is any cert's. And for all you know there are some new weapon certs and such in there.
Obviously I am going about this all wrong. Trying to talk to you like a reasonable person. So lets go through this slowly.
Kessel was once a PVP zone ok? And you have to get your master box there. Got me so far? Now that is called "forced PVP". In order to get the master box you had to engage in PVP. With me so far?
This new zone is going to be a PVP zone understand? And to experiance it, get any badges, items, etc you have to go through it also ok? Hence it is "forced PVP. In order to get any of those quests, badges, items, etc you have to engage in PVP. Can you grasp this yet?
As for buying the items from other players are they tradeable? Dont forget SOE loves to make things no trade. Especially if it forces players to have to do something for themselves. And so what if the items are tradeable. You still have to brave PVP just to see the place. Also badges arent tradeable. Neither is any cert's. And for all you know there are some new weapon certs and such in there.
Kai
Sigh...
I'm well aware that Kessel was once a PvP zone. Not being able to get the master box hindered on your gameplay in space if you wanted to participate in highend content in space - no matter where it was. You couldn't simply go somewhere else and get that master box somewhere else. Yes, correct, that is force PvP. This would be like saying you can't go from level 89 to level 90 UNLESS you do the quests in this new Restuss PvP zone.
You then compare the above to stuff like items, badges, etc. If you don't get them, it's not going to restrict your gameplay because you can get them or simillar items through other means in different areas outside of the Restuss area. Badges are rewards for doing stuff and it's just not possible to get all (those that don't want to/can't get ToOW are restricted from those badges for instance). Basically, completing the content in this new area isn't going to restrict you from enjoying the rest of the game, so you don't HAVE to do it if you don't want to.
As for the No Trade thing, if you're referring to ToOW only 2 or 3 items out of the hundreds you can get there are actually No Trade. The things that are No Trade, you need a group to be able to complete the content to get them.
Hehehe when I started this thread I wanted just to point that while SOE said visibility and TEF was forced pvp they also stated the Restuss thing won't be forced pvp...when those three actions are NOT forced pvp because you are NOT forced to do them to advance in the game. So this is why I thought SOE is contradicting itself.
Now the discussion is about if Restuss thing is forced pvp or not...I think it's technically not forced pvp...but it's like showing a cookie to a child, you know he will try to get it because the human behaviour/nature, so...it's some sort of induced pvp, but not really forced.
Originally posted by Distiler Hehehe when I started this thread I wanted just to point that while SOE said visibility and TEF was forced pvp they also stated the Restuss thing won't be forced pvp...when those three actions are NOT forced pvp because you are NOT forced to do them to advance in the game. So this is why I thought SOE is contradicting itself.
Now the discussion is about if Restuss thing is forced pvp or not...I think it's technically not forced pvp...but it's like showing a cookie to a child, you know he will try to get it because the human behaviour/nature, so...it's some sort of induced pvp, but not really forced.
There are many arguments to TEF's, but the one that stands out to me is that those that didn't want to PvP were completely restricted from anything to do with the GCW.
Could it be, but the new GCW is going to be pvp centric too (and it's good)...what what pissed me off the more was the removing of visibility...man that was a real thrill and starwarsy(TM) and iconic(TM).
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Originally posted by Obraik
No, this isn't the same as the whole Kessell thing, you are not being restricted from getting skills or certs. There was no alternative way to get Ace without going to Kessell (or Deep Space for Imps) so if you didn't want PvP you couldn't get your Ace box, so couldn't get Mark IV equipment for your ship or fly any of the Ace ships (including PoBs). That was force PvP.
As I said, you're not being restricted from getting any skill boxes nor certs for equipment trhough this event. If you want PvE content, there are plenty of other places in the game that you can go to get it. If you want the rewards for the quest, what is so wrong with buying it from those that do? PvP'ers have been doing this for 3 years now.
This is beginning to sound alot like "I don't like PvP anymore so there shouldn't be new PvP content"
Yes it is the same. You just refuse to admit it.
Obviously I am going about this all wrong. Trying to talk to you like a reasonable person. So lets go through this slowly.
Kessel was once a PVP zone ok? And you have to get your master box there. Got me so far? Now that is called "forced PVP". In order to get the master box you had to engage in PVP. With me so far?
This new zone is going to be a PVP zone understand? And to experiance it, get any badges, items, etc you have to go through it also ok? Hence it is "forced PVP. In order to get any of those quests, badges, items, etc you have to engage in PVP. Can you grasp this yet?
As for buying the items from other players are they tradeable? Dont forget SOE loves to make things no trade. Especially if it forces players to have to do something for themselves. And so what if the items are tradeable. You still have to brave PVP just to see the place. Also badges arent tradeable. Neither is any cert's. And for all you know there are some new weapon certs and such in there.
Kai
Yes, but you MUST realize the WHOLE EVENT is a PVP event with some PVE elements in them. Not really designed WITHOUT PVP in mind.
It's just like bitching you can't do the rebel theme park as an imp or netral. I was excluded from a LOT of "content" because I was neutral. This is the same thing. Want to fully participate, your character MUST conform to certain specifications.
I'd have loved to use a lightsaber as a swordsman too. Couldn't do it. Loved to have gotten my Jedi fighter without turning Imp... couldn't do it. Did I bitch? No. Same thing.
You can't DO everything and stay true to your character.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by Distiler Hehehe when I started this thread I wanted just to point that while SOE said visibility and TEF was forced pvp they also stated the Restuss thing won't be forced pvp...when those three actions are NOT forced pvp because you are NOT forced to do them to advance in the game. So this is why I thought SOE is contradicting itself.
Now the discussion is about if Restuss thing is forced pvp or not...I think it's technically not forced pvp...but it's like showing a cookie to a child, you know he will try to get it because the human behaviour/nature, so...it's some sort of induced pvp, but not really forced.
There are many arguments to TEF's, but the one that stands out to me is that those that didn't want to PvP were completely restricted from anything to do with the GCW. Can you see the hypocracy? It's okay that non PvPers are restricted from Restuss content, but it wasn't okay that neutrals were restricted from GCW content. To use your own arguments, being neutral didn't hinder people from gaining skills, or being able to play the game. They weren't FORCED to join a faction. They didn't HAVE to participate in that little bit of GCW content.
It's the SAME THING! THAT is what's getting on my nerves. The hypocritical fanbois trying to say the old things were bad, but the new things from the benevolant SOE lords are good. The Restuss content is just like GCW content with TEFs. If you don't want to PvP, don't join a faction. If you don't want to PvP, don't go to Restuss. If you think it's forced PvP, fine. If you think it's not forced, fine. But DON'T try to say that one is forced and the other isn't.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP Eve: Cardoh Dycen I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Originally posted by JediGeek Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by Distiler Hehehe when I started this thread I wanted just to point that while SOE said visibility and TEF was forced pvp they also stated the Restuss thing won't be forced pvp...when those three actions are NOT forced pvp because you are NOT forced to do them to advance in the game. So this is why I thought SOE is contradicting itself.
Now the discussion is about if Restuss thing is forced pvp or not...I think it's technically not forced pvp...but it's like showing a cookie to a child, you know he will try to get it because the human behaviour/nature, so...it's some sort of induced pvp, but not really forced.
There are many arguments to TEF's, but the one that stands out to me is that those that didn't want to PvP were completely restricted from anything to do with the GCW. Can you see the hypocracy? It's okay that non PvPers are restricted from Restuss content, but it wasn't okay that neutrals were restricted from GCW content. To use your own arguments, being neutral didn't hinder people from gaining skills, or being able to play the game. They weren't FORCED to join a faction. They didn't HAVE to participate in that little bit of GCW content.
It's the SAME THING! THAT is what's getting on my nerves. The hypocritical fanbois trying to say the old things were bad, but the new things from the benevolant SOE lords are good. The Restuss content is just like GCW content with TEFs. If you don't want to PvP, don't join a faction. If you don't want to PvP, don't go to Restuss. If you think it's forced PvP, fine. If you think it's not forced, fine. But DON'T try to say that one is forced and the other isn't.
I love how the second anyone disagrees with you they are a fanboi . Tefs had nothing to do with neutrals in the first place . I think he was saying it made it so those Rebels/IMps who did not want to pvp could not do factional content . That is not the same thing at all . I loved the Tef system because it made things interesting and challenging . Much like this described event will (if you pvp and enjoy it ) An event like this and what is left afterward is something you probably will enjoy .
Now on the other hand if you PVE and do not like to pvp, what reason do you have to Visit a PVP zone ? This would be like Wow PVers complaining about WOWs BG's . Or like Eq2 PVEers complaining about PVP servers . The content is there for you to enjoy , But you are not forced to take part in any way . So this is not forced PVP it is optional content , Nothing that will be offered is mandatory in any way .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
And what about those that enjoy PvP, pay $15 a month and got the DWB, The Warren, the Corvette and the Geo caves? Was nothing there for them.
Those that didn't want to do that content could buy the stuff from those that did. What's so wrong with doing the same in this case?
Go SF or Overt and you can PVP in the those zones like the DWB and the Corvette. Which by the way is what a group of us did once on my old server. Imps versus rebels in the Geo Caves. Your arguement doesnt hold water. A PVP zone you cant go covert. You HAVE to accept it if you want to see this gorgeous new content that will make billions of dollars for SOE and make every veteran come crawling back.
Kai
It's PvP content, why would you want to go there if you don't want to PvP?
This is the normal Argument between PVEers and PVPers , It is bad to give PVPers something , But ok to give pver's . I guess those of us who like to pvp , Do not deserve a reward for doing so or any content of our own . /shrug
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And what about those that enjoy PvP, pay $15 a month and got the DWB, The Warren, the Corvette and the Geo caves? Was nothing there for them.
Those that didn't want to do that content could buy the stuff from those that did. What's so wrong with doing the same in this case?
Go SF or Overt and you can PVP in the those zones like the DWB and the Corvette. Which by the way is what a group of us did once on my old server. Imps versus rebels in the Geo Caves. Your arguement doesnt hold water. A PVP zone you cant go covert. You HAVE to accept it if you want to see this gorgeous new content that will make billions of dollars for SOE and make every veteran come crawling back.
Kai
It's PvP content, why would you want to go there if you don't want to PvP?
To see the spectacular content that, after all the failed upgrades and content before, will certainly bring SWG back from the edge.
Originally in JTL, Kessel was a PVP zone. You have to go there to get the master box. That was undoubtly forced PVP to get master pilot. We all know how well that went.
Now they offer new content in a zone that is PVP. In order to see it you have to PVP. What is the difference in those two scenarios?
Getting a master box or getting new content. Its the same thing. Slice it or spin it how you want. If you want to see this sweet new content that will save SWG single handedly then you are FORCED to PVP.
Thankfully they changed Kessel.
Look at the WoW PVP servers. You got a bunch of whackos from one side or another that sit on key locations just to prevent people from getting some item or some quest done. On the PVP server I played on, the Alliance outnumbered the Horde about 4 to 1. So the Horde never had a chance to get any elite raids or anything remotely similiar to epic gear. While the Alliance farm them regularly. Further dividing the line in the Alliance favor. And its a pain in the neck. Get a raid together only to end up losing everyone over and over thanks to these guys camping the raid spot.
That what you want in SWG? Imps camping Restuss in such huge numbers the Rebels dont stand a chance to even try to get anything done there? Or vice versa?
Of course who am I kidding. SWG hasnt had huge numbers since the NGE.
Kai
I have no problem with the Reutuss event being forced PvP. I think alot of people raising this as an issue are doing so because of SOE's no forced PvP stance they used get rid of TEFS, not so much that they have a problem with be excluded from the Restuss event, although I am sure some feel that way..
The removal of TEFs (Feb. 2005) from SWG was the beginning of the end. Just about every single change after that point was bad. Its when they decided that staying true to the Star Wars movies wasn't important. At the time, I was really in disbelief that they would make such a fundamental (and horribly stupid change. little did I know that I what horrors were in store).
in the game you have to PVE so what is your point ?
Everyone talks
about socialization , Like it only matters in a non combat way .I am sorry but pvp is all about social play , You have your friends and allies who you work closely with to achieve a goal .
You also Have your enemies who are doing the same thing . It makes combat in a MMO atleast in my opinion more interesting .
Look how much PVE content is in SWg . Now compare that to its GCW content .You really think it is unfair to add something like this for PVPers? It actually might be a fun place to visit as a pvper . Now if you don't like PVP . Noone said you have to go there .
If you feel you have to see the content , Most of who play are in a guild . Get some guildies together and try and go have some fun . If you don't want to hear Smacktard leet speak . Turn off say bubbles and try and have fun as a group . Experience a new playstyle you might like it .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
On my server it was always severely uneven in the ranks of Rebel and Imperial. It started heavily Reb favored. Then shifted to Imp, then back to Reb, then back to Imp. When Jedi lost Perma Death and Saber TEF it shifted back to Reb and stayed there. Every 3 new players, 2 would go Reb because the Rebs were winning hands down. Several Imps went Reb as well. All because the Rebs were winning. They were winning because they had the majority of jedi on their side.
You would go to raid a base. 20 Imps versus 20 Rebs. It was great. Awesome fun. That was until the group of 10+ reb jedi showed up and ganked the Imps. From then on it was a test in fruistration.
After that I grew to hate PVP. What was the point when you knew you were going to die for certain? There was no thinking "Maybe I will do good and maybe I will do bad. Who knows?" If you were Imp then you knew it would be bad. Every PVP battle became an Imperial Suicide Mission.
Then when I played WoW on a PVP server it was just more of the same. Not because they had the majority of some alpha class. But because they camped all the raids for raid gear. Alliance outnumbered Horde heavily and if you wanted to complete even a minor quest in a lowbie PVP zone you had to have a full riad contingent with you.
But at least with WoW I could shift to a PVE server and not have to deal with that. I PVPed again and loved it. Because things were more balanced.
Ever played Battlefield Vietnam when it first came out? The Ammerican side had a severe issue in their favor. The M60 and its kit was way over balanced. Because of this almost every server had twice as many americans as it did NVA. I always ended up playing NVA. Because the American side was always full. And it stank. This is the samething.
Now you want to put a forced PVP zone in a game that is clearly one side or the other. Your just adding more fuel to the "I hate PVP" fire. And the PVPers are fine with this. Most wont think this far into it. All they care about is the chance to gank some poor sod who hates PVP but wants to see all this stupendous content that will make billions for SOE.
Kai
Funny.. that's the way it was right around the time between Episode 4 and 5. Jedi scarce and secretive? That'd have been nice if they set SWG during that time and NOT THE FLIPPING CLONE WARS.
/SamKinison on
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAAAAA
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Everyone talks about socialization , Like it only matters in a non combat way .I am sorry but pvp is all about social play , You have your friends and allies who you work closely with to achieve a goal .
You also Have your enemies who are doing the same thing . It makes combat in a MMO atleast in my opinion more interesting .
Look how much PVE content is in SWg . Now compare that to its GCW content .You really think it is unfair to add something like this for PVPers? It actually might be a fun place to visit as a pvper . Now if you don't like PVP . Noone said you have to go there .
If you feel you have to see the content , Most of who play are in a guild . Get some guildies together and try and go have some fun . If you don't want to hear Smacktard leet speak . Turn off say bubbles and try and have fun as a group . Experience a new playstyle you might like it .
Without a doubt, some of the most anti-social experiences I've had in game occured during PvP.
If you put in PvE quests with relevant loot and then tell people that if they want to do those quests and get that loot that they have to fight through PvP, technically it's not forced PvP but realistically speaking it is forced. Every PvE'er who wants to experience those quests and try for that loot is forced to PvP.
The "it's not forced because you don't have to choose to do those missions" argument is like saying, "no game has forced PvP because you can choose whether or not to play that game." Making people choose between PvP or be excluded from content is not giving them a real choice.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Everyone talks about socialization , Like it only matters in a non combat way .I am sorry but pvp is all about social play , You have your friends and allies who you work closely with to achieve a goal .
You also Have your enemies who are doing the same thing . It makes combat in a MMO atleast in my opinion more interesting .
Look how much PVE content is in SWg . Now compare that to its GCW content .You really think it is unfair to add something like this for PVPers? It actually might be a fun place to visit as a pvper . Now if you don't like PVP . Noone said you have to go there .
If you feel you have to see the content , Most of who play are in a guild . Get some guildies together and try and go have some fun . If you don't want to hear Smacktard leet speak . Turn off say bubbles and try and have fun as a group . Experience a new playstyle you might like it .
Without a doubt, some of the most anti-social experiences I've had in game occured during PvP.
If you put in PvE quests with relevant loot and then tell people that if they want to do those quests and get that loot that they have to fight through PvP, technically it's not forced PvP but realistically speaking it is forced. Every PvE'er who wants to experience those quests and try for that loot is forced to PvP.
The "it's not forced because you don't have to choose to do those missions" argument is like saying, "no game has forced PvP because you can choose whether or not to play that game." Making people choose between PvP or be excluded from content is not giving them a real choice.
-d
You see this was my point earlier , Same old argument . You are saying it is Ok to place content on a PVE specific basis , but not on a pvp one . I do not like to PVE at all mostly due to my playstyle PRe-cu . I hated losing armor to PVE when I needed it for PVP . Credits were better spent else where for me .
Now as for your firsts sentence , If you are a PVE specific player . You may get that feeling from some of the attitudes you see in PVP . But overall the people who devote their play time to PVP , do it for the same reason people gathered in Cantinas , Or PVE guilds go on raids . It is all about playing with your friends . Now PVP players do tend to be FPS gamers as well . Atleast from my experience , Past guilds and such . So you may see leet speakers here and there , But they do not make up the majority of people who PVP .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Now as for your firsts sentence , If you are a PVE specific player . You may get that feeling from some of the attitudes you see in PVP . But overall the people who devote their play time to PVP , do it for the same reason people gathered in Cantinas , Or PVE guilds go on raids . It is all about playing with your friends . Now PVP players do tend to be FPS gamers as well . Atleast from my experience , Past guilds and such . So you may see leet speakers here and there , But they do not make up the majority of people who PVP .
But there's where the problem with this argument lies.
The PVE world is everything. The PVP world lies within the PVE world.
Unless it is an always-overt PVP server, this is the case for ALL games.
All their covert/overt hoodiehoo just muddies the issue... but basically if you put on ANY uniform you are forced to PVP in some situation somewhere. But with the servers as barren as they tend to be... if you're PVE and hate PVP, just do the quest stuff during off-peak hours. Last I heard that was 7 days a week, 23.5 hours a day.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
NGE PVP stinks. Its more imbalanced then Pre-CU/Pre-Holo PVP ever was. Its buggy and a bunch of just blind charges into each other and he who has the best gear wins. Tactics are out the window and so is strategy. Adding PVP content to this mess is like making a table out of rotten wood and telling everyone "It will look great." BULLSPIT! The thing will fall part the first glass gets put on it. Fix PVP. Make it like it was Pre-holo and then you might have something interesting when you add PVP content. Until then your just putting carpet in an outhouse.
Old school Pre-Holo PVP (Something you will never see again)
My toon on Kauri has two bugs. Well had. One bug is a loot bug that gives me better chances at the good stuff then anyone else. The other bug was the one in question. Overt Bug. I would pop overt, usually when loading into a port, for no reason. I could be out hunting rancors and pop overt. I could be sitting in a camp on Tat and pop overt. Not tef. Full overt.
One friday afternoon, after checking harvs on Lok, I was loading into Daeric and popped overt. I think it was from the loading because no one in CNet capped me. But in the Daeric Starport were several overt rebels. They jumped me. I cloned and ran to the shuttle to get to the Imp outpost. They jumped me again. And again. Finally I ran to the IO. I talked to some Imperial mates and they were upset. The call was sent out. Several imps were prepping for an assault on AH so they were primed. They came to the IO and we got set.
My overt finally went back to covert so I was the one picked to scout the shuttleport in Daeric. When I sent them the tell that all was clear they jumped. And the war was on. It became, affectionatlly called the "Battle of Daeric"
We pushed them back to the cantina but didnt dare go inside. Back then Cantinas and Med Centers were off limits. We then pushed them back to the med center. We pulled back when we saw how close to the cloner we were. They ran into the starport and, unbeknowest to us, jumped to the shuttleport and the recruiter behind us. Rear attack. They pushed us out of Daeric. We attacked from the ground next. Legging it the entire way. We pushed them out of Daeric but they pushed back by concentrating on our left flank.
We then ran south from IO again but went around Daeric and positioned ourselves past the bridge and up the hill in the divits. Three overts went in and lured them into us. We then ran into Daeric again. And by then the battle had pretty much every Impa nd Reb onthe server I am sure.
I finally got tired and went to sleep. Logged in my house NW of Daeric. When I logged in the next day I ran to Daeric only to see yet another battle going on. I checked harvs right fast then came back, armed up, and headed to Daeric. Much to my surprise this wasnt a new battle. It was the same battle. Only time it let up was the server loading that morning. They battled for awhile and I went hunting on Dath. Came back to the same battle.
Next day I logged in and found the thing was still going on. THREE DAY BATTLE!!!! It finally ended Sunday around 8PM after a truce was made.
There were other battles similiar to this. The Tatooine War that lasted 5 days. The Moenia Raid that lasted 2 days. These are things you dont see in SWG anymore. And if they add PVP content now, while the system is so screwed up I doubt you will ever see it again.
Mark my words. It will become a deadzone or a camp zone. Either it will be like the battlefields of old where no one goes too or the dominant side on that server will rule the area. And both ways are detramental to PVP.
Kai
Originally in JTL, Kessel was a PVP zone. You have to go there to get the master box. That was undoubtly forced PVP to get master pilot. We all know how well that went.
Now they offer new content in a zone that is PVP. In order to see it you have to PVP. What is the difference in those two scenarios?
Getting a master box or getting new content. Its the same thing. Slice it or spin it how you want. If you want to see this sweet new content that will save SWG single handedly then you are FORCED to PVP.
Thankfully they changed Kessel.
Look at the WoW PVP servers. You got a bunch of whackos from one side or another that sit on key locations just to prevent people from getting some item or some quest done. On the PVP server I played on, the Alliance outnumbered the Horde about 4 to 1. So the Horde never had a chance to get any elite raids or anything remotely similiar to epic gear. While the Alliance farm them regularly. Further dividing the line in the Alliance favor. And its a pain in the neck. Get a raid together only to end up losing everyone over and over thanks to these guys camping the raid spot.
That what you want in SWG? Imps camping Restuss in such huge numbers the Rebels dont stand a chance to even try to get anything done there? Or vice versa?
Of course who am I kidding. SWG hasnt had huge numbers since the NGE.
Kai
No, this isn't the same as the whole Kessell thing, you are not being restricted from getting skills or certs. There was no alternative way to get Ace without going to Kessell (or Deep Space for Imps) so if you didn't want PvP you couldn't get your Ace box, so couldn't get Mark IV equipment for your ship or fly any of the Ace ships (including PoBs). That was force PvP.
As I said, you're not being restricted from getting any skill boxes nor certs for equipment trhough this event. If you want PvE content, there are plenty of other places in the game that you can go to get it. If you want the rewards for the quest, what is so wrong with buying it from those that do? PvP'ers have been doing this for 3 years now.
This is beginning to sound alot like "I don't like PvP anymore so there shouldn't be new PvP content"
Just my 2 cents..
This is the first real content that SEO has added to SWG in a while. And its mostly PvP content. Sure you can argue that the quests are PvE, but you still have to enter a PvP area. And since Restuss isnt all that big of an area, I suspect alot of gank squads. Sure there will be opposing factions there trying to gank also, but it could be near impossible to complete a quest without being killed many times.
So Basicly, if you want to partake in this new content (wich most people more than likely will want to expierence the new content), you have to risk PvP. If you want to expierence the new content, but dont want to PvP..then too bad for you.
And since SOE is trying to mimic WoW we can also argue that WoW has many PvP (contested) areas where it could be considered open, forced PvP. But those areas are Huge. And also if you dont like PvP, then you dont have to choose a PvP server. You can choose a PvE server with all the same content.
So IMHO its a lose, lose situation for PvE'ers. If they want the new content they have to PvP. If they dont want to PvP they lose the content. Either way...they lose.
Now as for your firsts sentence , If you are a PVE specific player . You may get that feeling from some of the attitudes you see in PVP . But overall the people who devote their play time to PVP , do it for the same reason people gathered in Cantinas , Or PVE guilds go on raids . It is all about playing with your friends . Now PVP players do tend to be FPS gamers as well . Atleast from my experience , Past guilds and such . So you may see leet speakers here and there , But they do not make up the majority of people who PVP .
I'm not saying it's ok that PvP players are forced into PvE but not visa versa. I'm saying that the devs declared that this game is now under a "consensual PvP only" policy and yet they are introducing forced PvP in Restuss.
However, to address the part in red: If you're upset with the way PvP'ers are treated in the game, dragging PvE'ers into your misery isn't a solution. The solution is to make the developers see that people want PvP to be as independent an aspect of the game as PvE is.
The part in orange makes complete sense. My PvP experiences are far and few between and usually a result of my being dragged in kicking and screaming, but I don't doubt that PvP can be a true social experience if you allow it to be.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
I still don't think there will be any balance in PVP and the GCW. It's down to the players being responsible in how to play and that will never happen. For new PVPers it's difficult to get into with gankers etc. Npcs are better for GCW, they react, but give up if you don't want to fight and RP their role. Rp and PVP should go hand in hand, i think lot of PVPers consider other players in the same way we look at NPCs. It means nothing to kill someone for the points. I'd love all players to be overt and maybe start a row in a bar over politics, or a demeaning comment about a walking carpet. I remember a squad of player stormies in Bestine on patrol, not just killing anything that moved but doing their 'job'.
In the film Luke and Ben in Mos Eisley weren't attacked by the Stormies straight off, the Stormies didn't have radar. They weren't hunted till they broke the law in a bar fight. I don't attack my neighbours in RL for voting for the BNP (assuming they do, someone does i'm sure), but i'd sure be vocal if i heard them voice their views in a derogatory way. And i haven't had a fight since i was in school, but i'd defend myself if i needed to.
I'm in the rebel faction but PVP isn't factional, it's about who has most points. Essentially it's a free-for-all with maybe a few different bits of technology. Sadly duels with deahblow ("wait a minute m8, let me prepare") is the only way i can enjoy PVP, so i guess i'm just a part time rebel.
No, this isn't the same as the whole Kessell thing, you are not being restricted from getting skills or certs. There was no alternative way to get Ace without going to Kessell (or Deep Space for Imps) so if you didn't want PvP you couldn't get your Ace box, so couldn't get Mark IV equipment for your ship or fly any of the Ace ships (including PoBs). That was force PvP.
As I said, you're not being restricted from getting any skill boxes nor certs for equipment trhough this event. If you want PvE content, there are plenty of other places in the game that you can go to get it. If you want the rewards for the quest, what is so wrong with buying it from those that do? PvP'ers have been doing this for 3 years now.
This is beginning to sound alot like "I don't like PvP anymore so there shouldn't be new PvP content"
Yes it is the same. You just refuse to admit it.
Obviously I am going about this all wrong. Trying to talk to you like a reasonable person. So lets go through this slowly.
Kessel was once a PVP zone ok? And you have to get your master box there. Got me so far? Now that is called "forced PVP". In order to get the master box you had to engage in PVP. With me so far?
This new zone is going to be a PVP zone understand? And to experiance it, get any badges, items, etc you have to go through it also ok? Hence it is "forced PVP. In order to get any of those quests, badges, items, etc you have to engage in PVP. Can you grasp this yet?
As for buying the items from other players are they tradeable? Dont forget SOE loves to make things no trade. Especially if it forces players to have to do something for themselves. And so what if the items are tradeable. You still have to brave PVP just to see the place. Also badges arent tradeable. Neither is any cert's. And for all you know there are some new weapon certs and such in there.
Kai
Bah...
Obviously I am going about this all wrong. Trying to talk to you like a reasonable person. So lets go through this slowly.
Kessel was once a PVP zone ok? And you have to get your master box there. Got me so far? Now that is called "forced PVP". In order to get the master box you had to engage in PVP. With me so far?
This new zone is going to be a PVP zone understand? And to experiance it, get any badges, items, etc you have to go through it also ok? Hence it is "forced PVP. In order to get any of those quests, badges, items, etc you have to engage in PVP. Can you grasp this yet?
As for buying the items from other players are they tradeable? Dont forget SOE loves to make things no trade. Especially if it forces players to have to do something for themselves. And so what if the items are tradeable. You still have to brave PVP just to see the place. Also badges arent tradeable. Neither is any cert's. And for all you know there are some new weapon certs and such in there.
Kai
Sigh...
I'm well aware that Kessel was once a PvP zone. Not being able to get the master box hindered on your gameplay in space if you wanted to participate in highend content in space - no matter where it was. You couldn't simply go somewhere else and get that master box somewhere else. Yes, correct, that is force PvP. This would be like saying you can't go from level 89 to level 90 UNLESS you do the quests in this new Restuss PvP zone.
You then compare the above to stuff like items, badges, etc. If you don't get them, it's not going to restrict your gameplay because you can get them or simillar items through other means in different areas outside of the Restuss area. Badges are rewards for doing stuff and it's just not possible to get all (those that don't want to/can't get ToOW are restricted from those badges for instance). Basically, completing the content in this new area isn't going to restrict you from enjoying the rest of the game, so you don't HAVE to do it if you don't want to.
As for the No Trade thing, if you're referring to ToOW only 2 or 3 items out of the hundreds you can get there are actually No Trade. The things that are No Trade, you need a group to be able to complete the content to get them.
Hehehe when I started this thread I wanted just to point that while SOE said visibility and TEF was forced pvp they also stated the Restuss thing won't be forced pvp...when those three actions are NOT forced pvp because you are NOT forced to do them to advance in the game. So this is why I thought SOE is contradicting itself.
Now the discussion is about if Restuss thing is forced pvp or not...I think it's technically not forced pvp...but it's like showing a cookie to a child, you know he will try to get it because the human behaviour/nature, so...it's some sort of induced pvp, but not really forced.
No, this isn't the same as the whole Kessell thing, you are not being restricted from getting skills or certs. There was no alternative way to get Ace without going to Kessell (or Deep Space for Imps) so if you didn't want PvP you couldn't get your Ace box, so couldn't get Mark IV equipment for your ship or fly any of the Ace ships (including PoBs). That was force PvP.
As I said, you're not being restricted from getting any skill boxes nor certs for equipment trhough this event. If you want PvE content, there are plenty of other places in the game that you can go to get it. If you want the rewards for the quest, what is so wrong with buying it from those that do? PvP'ers have been doing this for 3 years now.
This is beginning to sound alot like "I don't like PvP anymore so there shouldn't be new PvP content"
Yes it is the same. You just refuse to admit it.
Obviously I am going about this all wrong. Trying to talk to you like a reasonable person. So lets go through this slowly.
Kessel was once a PVP zone ok? And you have to get your master box there. Got me so far? Now that is called "forced PVP". In order to get the master box you had to engage in PVP. With me so far?
This new zone is going to be a PVP zone understand? And to experiance it, get any badges, items, etc you have to go through it also ok? Hence it is "forced PVP. In order to get any of those quests, badges, items, etc you have to engage in PVP. Can you grasp this yet?
As for buying the items from other players are they tradeable? Dont forget SOE loves to make things no trade. Especially if it forces players to have to do something for themselves. And so what if the items are tradeable. You still have to brave PVP just to see the place. Also badges arent tradeable. Neither is any cert's. And for all you know there are some new weapon certs and such in there.
Kai
Yes, but you MUST realize the WHOLE EVENT is a PVP event with some PVE elements in them. Not really designed WITHOUT PVP in mind.
It's just like bitching you can't do the rebel theme park as an imp or netral. I was excluded from a LOT of "content" because I was neutral. This is the same thing. Want to fully participate, your character MUST conform to certain specifications.
I'd have loved to use a lightsaber as a swordsman too. Couldn't do it. Loved to have gotten my Jedi fighter without turning Imp... couldn't do it. Did I bitch? No. Same thing.
You can't DO everything and stay true to your character.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Can you see the hypocracy?
It's okay that non PvPers are restricted from Restuss content, but it wasn't okay that neutrals were restricted from GCW content.
To use your own arguments, being neutral didn't hinder people from gaining skills, or being able to play the game. They weren't FORCED to join a faction. They didn't HAVE to participate in that little bit of GCW content.
It's the SAME THING!
THAT is what's getting on my nerves. The hypocritical fanbois trying to say the old things were bad, but the new things from the benevolant SOE lords are good.
The Restuss content is just like GCW content with TEFs. If you don't want to PvP, don't join a faction. If you don't want to PvP, don't go to Restuss.
If you think it's forced PvP, fine. If you think it's not forced, fine. But DON'T try to say that one is forced and the other isn't.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP
Eve: Cardoh Dycen
I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Can you see the hypocracy?
It's okay that non PvPers are restricted from Restuss content, but it wasn't okay that neutrals were restricted from GCW content.
To use your own arguments, being neutral didn't hinder people from gaining skills, or being able to play the game. They weren't FORCED to join a faction. They didn't HAVE to participate in that little bit of GCW content.
It's the SAME THING!
THAT is what's getting on my nerves. The hypocritical fanbois trying to say the old things were bad, but the new things from the benevolant SOE lords are good.
The Restuss content is just like GCW content with TEFs. If you don't want to PvP, don't join a faction. If you don't want to PvP, don't go to Restuss.
If you think it's forced PvP, fine. If you think it's not forced, fine. But DON'T try to say that one is forced and the other isn't.
I love how the second anyone disagrees with you they are a fanboi . Tefs had nothing to do with neutrals in the first place . I think he was saying it made it so those Rebels/IMps who did not want to pvp could not do factional content . That is not the same thing at all . I loved the Tef system because it made things interesting and challenging . Much like this described event will (if you pvp and enjoy it ) An event like this and what is left afterward is something you probably will enjoy .
Now on the other hand if you PVE and do not like to pvp, what reason do you have to Visit a PVP zone ? This would be like Wow PVers complaining about WOWs BG's . Or like Eq2 PVEers complaining about PVP servers . The content is there for you to enjoy , But you are not forced to take part in any way . So this is not forced PVP it is optional content , Nothing that will be offered is mandatory in any way .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson