Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
socketed P-90?
apocalance
Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
Pre-E3 Interview with Joe Ybarra
To give you a for-instance, we already know that we're going to use component on our weapons. So here's a P-90, as you evolve over time you will have sockets on your P-90 that you can buy power-ups that will make your gun more accurate or more powerful or whatever. And these power-ups can be crafted, or can be purchased, or can be acquired in drops. But you'll also get guns that you find as drops that already have pre-configured upgrades. So now the question is for the style of play for the player: he has several ways of going about upgrading his equipment. What is his motivation for upgrading his equipment? As he goes up in levels, monsters get harder, but we're also putting in new challenges, i.e. armor piercing rounds were really good at the beginning of play, but they don't work really well when you get to the middle level of play. So we change things. This is really what I mean about the complexity of the combat system, because it has to embrace that level of detail. And we're getting closer and closer to being able to do that.
For some reason this doesn't sit well with me right now. Can anyone put a positive slant on this? I don't really know what I expected, but making one P-90 significantly different than another P-90 wasn't what the show was about. It seems like they're falling into the SWG (and most other mmo's) trap of crafting & loot is content.
btw, here's the full interview @ ten ton hammer
so...
Comments
Would make more sense on the M-16 I think, but it could be grounded in reality. Choosing what to take through the Stargate IS worth thinking about. In one episode, someone did use an M203 grenade launcher slung under their weapon to knock over a wall to stop a shielded enemy. They've had to use special equipment like NVG's before as well. So, picking between, say, a telescopic sight and a laser sight on top of your P-90 makes sense.
Since this is a game, I suspect that there will be other "power ups" as well, though that also has some basis in the series (they didn't make Zat guns on earth, but carry them all over the place). I wouldn't be suprised if what you're afraid of occupied a broader niche than you'd like. Its really early in the development cycle, though I don't really expect "teh revolution" that a lot of people on this site seem to look for.
Personally I just hope that P-90's don't become the end-all and be-all. Shotguns were used against enemies like Replicators because they had to be close to hurt you (and shooting more of the components at once sure makes sense, lest it shed its damaged pieces and proceed to melt your face). They used anti-vehicle weapons (in one case, a Death Glider cannon stripped off a downed craft) to some effect. In one of the earliest episodes they (uselessly) try to shoot down a Death Glider with staff weapons until it can be knocked down by another SG team armed with a surface-to-air missile. Jack has to throw a knife to get past the Goa'Uld shield.
Weapon mixes did have an impact, though because it is a TV show, they mostly seemed to have the necessary gear on hand (or at least at the last critical moment).
I think you misunderstood me. I certainly agree that gear that you take with you on a given mission is very important and much like the Rainbow Six games, you carefully determine your loadout on a mission, but a socketed P-90 using power-ups? That just seems lame.
I love your build-up on using shotguns, 203's and other weapons at certain areas versus certain enemies over more standard weapons. That's perfect for the game. Not artificial "I'm better than you because I have teh über x10 dmg multiplier on muh P-90!"
so...
Yeah those were just my private hopes and musings.
My point about the P-90's is just that the gear that you carry on it is really part of your load out too. Now, in real life I don't know how much the P-90 can actually carry. Given that these are supposed to be special formations, I imagine that the SG teams could choose between, for example, laser sights, iron sights, scopes, IR scopes, flashlights, IR lanterns, and possibly different flavors of grenade launcher. Of course, ammo can play a role too. Subsconic rounds are much quieter when the barrel is silenced, AP, hollowpoint, and high-velocity all spring to mind. Of course, a grenade launcher could have all sorts of ammo (HE, fragmentation, napalm, etc) Like I said, I think the M-16 is more realistic but they're stepping through wormholes sooo... I'll cut them some slack.
In that spirit, it might be possible to, for instance, enhance the ROF on 3-round bursts to make them more accurate, modify the barrel to make it more accurate on single-shots at long range, or strap a stripped-down Zat (I don't think that the whole pop up snake-thing is a functional aspect) in place of a more terrestrial weapon.
There are a fair number of things that you can do to the gun before you start getting into more ethereal matters. In the interview they're pretty (typically) non-specific. I do think we're going to end up with some "damage mod"-style equipment but it doesn't mean that they won't do other things with the sockets such as what I described.
I think they just used the wrong terminology. I think they should have said "accessory hardpoint" instead of "powerup." Then it could be that you buy / craft a laser sight which adds a bonus to say, reaction time and recovery (reflex / instinctive shooting), close range accuracy, and reduces any accuracy penalty associated with firing at night. Same thing for like tritium night sights and / or surefire flashlight (increased nightime accuracy), etc. Just make it so something like the P-90 has X number of accessory hardpoints, the M-16 has Y, M-16A2 has Z, M-4 has XX, etc... Make each hardpoint defined, for example: P-90 can carry 2 hardpoints on the foreguard for certain accessories (eg. laser and flashlight), 1 sight hardpoint (tritium sights, scope, reflex sight, etc). Make magazines a seperate accessory that can be loaded with AP, FMJ, Tracers, ballistic tips, Glasers, whatever.
Anyhow, the bottom line is that they need to have some custom options to your weapons. It's that way in real life for SOF, why not in a game. Honestly, I hope they don't clone the old SWG "powerups" though, as that method would destroy some of my immersion.
For some reason this doesn't sit well with me right now. Can anyone put a positive slant on this? I don't really know what I expected, but making one P-90 significantly different than another P-90 wasn't what the show was about. It seems like they're falling into the SWG (and most other mmo's) trap of crafting & loot is content.
btw, here's the full interview @ ten ton hammer
Hi, how's it going? I haven't kept up with the game as much as I would liek to. But one way to look at this issue is as follows;
I would agree that I think that player crafted items should have better capabilities then the average loot drops, except for special quest / mission.
IMO,
Tauceti
Hi, how's it going? I haven't kept up with the game as much as I would liek to. But one way to look at this issue is as follows;
I would agree that I think that player crafted items should have better capabilities then the average loot drops, except for special quest / mission.
IMO,
Tauceti
Good points. I don't have a problem with the devs creating a system for crafting that fits into this. Isn't that what the do on the show from time to time? Have to develop or change found technology into something modified for earth use?
I think that interview just had some bad terminology, but the concept behind it will work fine.
my 2c anyway.
I'm very much looking forward to learning more about this game.
They essentially used the P-90 as a socketed weapon in the show. With scope, without. Laser sight, without. TDR Frequency modulator for killing Anubis' Kull warriors was a add on to the P-90 as well.
Pretty sure this is the type of "sockets" they're talking about.
At least IMHO
if anyone ever played swg precu it would be kinda like that. the weapons precu were highly customizeable and had powerups that you could put on the weapons to make them faster/more dmg/more ranged etc....i would really like to see the crafting system as complex as swg. harvesting resources to make the components and using the components to make the weapons and having special lootable components to make uber weapons, rare of course. the clothing in swg had "sockets" where you could put upgrades called "tapes" in them that gives a mod to a variety of things in the game. some guns were looted with these upgrades "tapes" in them but the craftable guns did not have sockets. for example you could loot a polearm that had +20 polearm speed modification on it but would not be able to craft a polearm that had +20 polearm speed it was considered a special "rare" weapon only lootable. now sometimes they had crappy speed/damage but when you got all uber dmg/speed modifications etc... was a very nice weapon. i think what they're trying to do is to make the game more interesting instead of "here's your gun start shooting" they want more thought into the process.
Defiant
A P-90 is a P-90....maybe, MAYBE, they can do socketed staff weapons. Bigger naquida charge? Maybe?
Hi, good post. But, here is may 2 cents.
1st I agree a players skill and attributes should play a factor in combat. But to what degree depends heavily on the type of combat and weapons used. Example;
Melee weapon whould be more relant on the Avatars skills and the player. and therefor things like eye & hand coord. wiil affect accuracy and strength & speed with affect damage all of which will act a major mod to the weapon stats. Example you take to poles and one has and edge, they are both used by the same toon hitting with the same force to hit a target. The edge pole will do more damage because of the edge and because it has a smaller surface area with enough force behind it.
In range combat the situation changes Accuracy and damage would act like modifiers to the weapons. Example the players damage mod would lie in the area targeted and any special attacks.
As for your main point, a firearm isn't just a firearm, there are professional competition shooters who spend hunderds if not thousands of dollars on modifining their firearm. Here is why matching sockets to a game is reasonable.
Many professional shooters reduce their trigger pull for 2 main reason it gives them a fast fire rate and also help make their shots more accurate. Why the more force you have to have to pull a trigger the more likely you are to throw off your aim.
Many add lasersites to help improve accuracy as well as scopes.
Some also get different hand grips so that it is easer to hold the gun which also helps with accuracy.
There is also situation where you can use anti-recoil tech / systems that will help keep your gun on target.
So as you see there are a lot of thing [more that I have said] that can be done to a firearm and / or other weapons that can improve their overall capabilities. Even in Meele weapns.
Anyhow, thats my 2 cents, But I do agree that avatar skills and player skills should have a big impact on the game, but that doesn't mean the weapons shouldn't either. I guess I saying balance...lol
GL,
Tauceti
But if the devs want to remain true to the show, note that the weapons in the show are standard military P-90's...Jack's P-90 is no different than Carters, and the ones the share with the Jaffa rebels are all the same. I can see, however, special story-driven circumstances that require you to modify your weapon (add a..wahtever those things are called that can see cloaked people), and stuff like that.
I guess maybe we're getting the word 'Socketed' mixed up with the word 'Upgradable'.
Socketed human weapons are a definate no-no
but Upgradable human weapons would definately appeal.
Granted, the 2 words are almost mutually interchangeable, I just get a more "human" feel when i think of using 'Upgrades' rather than 'Items'
Hi,
Well actually I think sockets is a good term because it is more close to hardpoints. I say this because upgrade implies a more permanent change, were as socket implies something more easily changed out, IMO.
Also, some [not all] special ops unit do tend to customize some of their weapons that they personaly use more often. Also, keep in my snipers for example have favorit weapons they like using and tend to modify them to help with there shots, but that's usualy because they hate being centimeter off their target..lol. However your right, depending of which branch of service your talking about many units have a standard loadout that match certain types of missions, which is were you get some of your standardization. But I'd be willing to bet that at least one of the weapons they carry is more or less customized because it a weapon they like using.
The bottom line with regards to this subject matter is that I think what players are looking for is a way to get loot that has meaning for their toons and a desire to have a way to incorporate some type of crafting system into the game
IMO,
Tauceti
But on the topic of it being realistic or not i think that upgrading it with different parts is to be expected, you cannot expect it to ridgedly stay attached to the show since it'll evolve and be different anyway...