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Severe Death Penalty
daemonbarber
Member UncommonPosts: 78
in EVE Online
Every intro post I read around here comments on EVE's severe death penalty. I've been playing for over a year and I don't think it's got a severe death penalty at all...
The death penalty is two really two fold:
1. Ship Loss (not really 'death' in EVE but taken as the same thing)
2. Clone Loss (being podded)
Ships loss is countered by insurance - lowering the actual loss of a normal ship (T2 are excluded) a great deal. While fittings are often worth a lot more then the ship, very few experienced players fly what they cannot afford to lose.
Clone loss is really just an inconvience... You can lose millions in implants, you're forced back to your active clone's station, and if you're a total nub you could lose a chunk of training. It's important to note that if you have 20m skill points and the base clone (30k?) you'll not role back to a 30k sp player - you will lose half of your highest level skill - while that could mean a few weeks setback, by the time you get to that level you're not a nub...
So what do you guys think?
Comments
Severe compared to what? Perma death? no penalty at all? or what?
The way you ask the question it can not be answered.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
A bit sad, if you ask me.
It's severe, and it's great that it is.
You lose your ship, your modules, your cargo, your clone (if podded). Insurance only covers your ship. It doesn't cover your mods, cargo or your clone.
While you are correct that insurance is available to cover the ship replacement for T1 ships, which is handy, there really isn't any other game that has this kind of loss associated with dying.
I do agree that smart players don't fly ships they can't afford to lose, but the death penalty is still steep, even if you can afford the loss. Whether you can afford the steep penalty in any given ship and setup is a different issue from whether the penalty is steep to begin with.
It was severe, and now it's average imo.
Sever was before free basic insirance, or when even platinum only lasted three weeks. Severe was before jump clones, or when implants were damn near impossible to find cheaply. Severe was when you died to just about every enemy group you'd run into when you were trying to close those 15km to the next gate. Sever was when earning enough isk to replace a full BS kit after losing an insured one took a week.
Average is instajumps, logging offf in/before combat, platinum insurance that lasts three months, ump clones that prevent implant loss if handled well, and an earning potential that has risen much faster then the cost of shiploss, average is earning enough isk to replace even a HAC in a single day if you work at it.
So, average, I;ve been playing since june 2003.
I've been playing since March 2004, and I can also avoid losses and mitigate losses incurred fairly easily. But newer players can't. For a relatively new player who gets his new t1 cruiser popped in 0.4, the sting can be substantial and can take a lot longer to replace.
It's not severe, it's realistic. If your ship were to be blown up in "real life" (assuming we have advanced into that kind of technology) it would not simply respawn somewhere and allow you to keep flying around. Your ship blows up, it's done, end of story, get a new one... One of the many amazing features of this game that continues to filter out the immature community that so many other games have!
Live, Breath, Cause. HaVoK
vets shouls vote yes. HAC loss hurts.
:P
That was my point... some games you could lose days or weeks of experience, all of your items (not many like that anymore tho), and isk/gold as well. No one purchases a new ship without weighing the values of it - buy your first battleship with just enough to fit and no insurane - of course the DP is severe! Wait another few weeks till you can afford to replace the ship, mods and insurance, not such a big deal anymore.. I see a lot of vets explaining the game to noobs and that caveat is always in there - when in fact, the only time the death penalty is severe is if you're risking it all...
Personally, I'd say it's average at worst.
I would agree. I was mostly joking
Here's to suicide kestrals, and self distructing pods to get back to empire!
At 20mil SP a clone cost me 4.7mil wich I can make in about 5min or less.
Harsh deaths?
Yes, EVE has that. No other game has actually had me sweat and worry in PvP or PvE situations. Even in a T1 setup. When in a T2 ship, with a good T2 fitting it's even worse. Add some +3 implants and enemies that pod... Gaah!
But I like the tension and wouldn't want it any other way, for my primary MMORPG.
I think it's still severe, it used to be over-the-top severe...
HAC loss hurts because of the scumbags that have the T2 BPOs and manufacter them then sell them at a disgustingly inflated price.
Still if it means EVE has the best market system of any MMO it's a small price to pay in my opinion.
Also I think the death penalty is more severe than 99% of MMOs but I don't believe it's unfair in the least.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Well ... it's really a supply and demand issue. CCP has elected to keep the supply static, both by severely limiting the number of BPOs for HACs and by having them take so long (relatively speaking) to manufacture. Put both of those together and it is a fairly restricted supply. Play that against the fact that as a larger portion of the playerbase matures and trains the skills for HACs, thereby significantly increasing demand, and you have the situation we have now. The same is true, on a lesser scale, for interceptors (lot more expensive now than 6-8 months ago), covert ops cloaks and so forth. When it comes to t2 the market is somewhat broken because the supply side is artificially constrained whilst the demand side continues to grow.HAC loss hurts because of the scumbags that have the T2 BPOs and manufacter them then sell them at a disgustingly inflated price.
I started out with loosing a raven to a hac as a n00b on his first trip to lower sec areas. It hurt. But I was new to the ways of pvp and I learned from my losses. 6 months later I came back to pvp (I was a empire carebear for too long) and now I go out with T2 setupped ships im not afraid to loose anymore. I know that my luck might run out at any time and poof.. ship gone.
Insurance get's me my ship money back and I already have a new ship in the hangers fitted waiting to be insured and taken out for a ride.
So penalty is definetly severe if you use your brains abit.
--
Maniac
What he said.
That's what makes the game so fun, and intense to play.
Most people play games because it's a sort of escapism into another world -this includes all types like FPS's MMO's etc-, a world where your conscious doesn't need to exsist as there's no consequences, so you're free to run around fragging your friends and have fun doing it because you know they'll respawn.
In EVE though, it's different, your conscious does come into play as there are consequences and your actions could make someones virtual life hell, and vise versa. There are risks involved in the game, the risk of losing a ship and modules that you've just spent -perhaps- weeks "working" for, and this gives you such an adrenaline rush that no other game is capable of offering.
There are even times when you forget that it's just a game, and your emotions get the better of you then someone walks into the room and asks why you're so pissed off... that's when reality sets in, and you laugh it off (great playing with RL friends, as we always argue when we die then laugh about it 10 minutes later
).
Meh, that's the reason i play the game anyway, the adrenaline rush.
I know there are a lot of other people who play this game just to have a huge wallet, or want to create a huge empire whether it's a fighting empire, or one that just makes lots of money. That's not my cup of tea though, I just want to kill people and have fun doing it.
-iCeh
Regardless of whether you can afford to lose a ship and its fittings, the question is to compare Eve's death to other MMOs, and most other MMO's pretty much have no death penalty (cough-WoW).
Having a penalty makes it so much more exciting, more intense, and more fun.