Originally posted by Neanderthal What I hate the most? Raiding. Without a doubt. My hatred of raiding comes from my days in EQ, which was my first mmorpg. In the early days I loved that game so much I literally couldn't get enough of it. But over time it changed into a game that basically required you to join a big player organization and spend an inordinate amount of time on those long, boring raids. God I hate raiding so much. It's so...damn...boring. And I hate being treated like a flunky by some pre-pubescent, struting, little jerk. I hate the fact that the worst and most obnoxious players in a game can be the most successfull simply by being willing to go on raids and showing up. And even if I liked the people who are drawn to raids as a way to coast along and could tolerate the boredom; when you get right down to it raiding is just not my idea of what fantasy adventure should be. Milling around in a whole crowd of people and being led around by the nose so that you don't have to think for yourself as you overwhelm things with numbers.....that's not adventure. It's more like punching a time card when you show up for work in a factory and then keeping a low profile and trying to look busy so that the foreman doesn't chew you out. I'm not saying that everything else about EQ was perfect. To be honest I think the whole nature of EQ type games is antiquated now and the genre should be moving on to deeper and more complex games (should be). But raiding is the thing I learned to hate the most while playing EQ. I passed on WoW in large part because I knew it was going to be all about raiding at the end as well. And I'll pass on any game that forces people to raid or be left behind.
I am going to have to definitley agree with you there, after playing EQ for awhile I felt like it was impossible to progress in the game without going on hour long run fests through the game. Thats why I went to a different one (DAoC) which is very fun and doesn't require raiding at all, because you can get just as good or better items from doing other quests or buying some from players, if your looking for a game w/o raiding you should try the 14 day trial.
-Immature Community (Too many to name...) -Bots (RF Online...) -Graphics -Content (RF Online, 100% Grind Fest = Pay?)
If I'm expected to pay for a game I want a decent gaming environment to play in.
An immature community doesn't help, especially if I'm going to grind for an hour or two at a time. Bots destroy the economy and take away the principle of hard work in gaming, making the game less enjoyable for others and hurting the economy. Graphics are just a plus, but if I'm paying for a MMORPG I expect a certain degree of time and effort in it's design.
Most importantly content has to keep me busy and interested. Not just grinding 24/7 but actually doing something to benefit my in-game character. I have no idea how this can be done, but that's up to the MMORPG developers to determine
People who say the graphics turned them off in a game crack me up ... i mean comon.. a game could have the easiest interface/ui system in any game you've ever played. Very noob friendly gameplay and a small small learning curve and your saying that you didnt like it because of graphics?... im actually referring to DAoC. Now, dont get me wrong.. im no fanboi... i actually dont even play DAoC anymore. It ran its course just like all the other games i play. But! out of the games ive, played DAoC was the easiest to learn and get into. (and it wasnt even so simple that it became lame.. it was just straight easy.) Also has one badass PvP system.
It even had a total graphic rehaul at its Catacombs release.
I actually quit because of all the "1337ists" in the RvR zones with their fully buffed fully Templated RR10 toons
Another AMAZING game that was so said to be "spoiled" by bad graphics... Horizons.. that was an incredible game. So much Depth, best crafting hands down!
The lack of PvP is actually what turned me off to this game.
And ANOTHER incredible game that had apparently "unplayable" graphics... Anarchy Online. This game, while, ill admit, having the least desireable graphics of the 3, has sooo freakin much in-game depth. Im actually just starting to get into this game and ive experienced so much and ive barely scratched the surface. Some stuff is tough to get ahold of ill give ya that.
My point is, what the hell are you actually looking for in a game to let graphics ruin such great games for you?
Conan / WAR dont come out for a while people. Get by with what youve got.
now! the things that actually bugged me in a few MMO's were lack of low level content, gameplay (honerable mentions to Guild Wars and Shadowbane), and Community. Afterall, Without a good community an MMORPG becomes just a plain old RPG that your paying monthly to play o.O yuck.
(the following has officially been my longest post ever on this forum...)
My personal gripes (all based on World of Warcraft):
* Game experience changing dramatically after a certain level. The game I've learned to enjoy dies at 60; welcome to World of Raidcraft.
* Players who think that investment of time equals entitlement to rewards. So you have no life and you spent more than twelve hours a day running the same dungeon for the past week, and this is my first run... no, you don't have a greater right to the treasure. Do you think you have a greater right to win the lottery if you buy a ticket daily? Your past effort is irrelevant. You've already received your reward for the previous dungeon runs. The reward wasn't treasure, it was an opportunity to win treasure. If you lost the previous lotteries, tough.
* Servers that crash during world events. Come on, you didn't expect the entire population to try to attend? Why didn't you code the server to immediately kill any < level 10 character that tried to enter the area? That'll stop 'em.
* Gold farmers and their ilk. Economic vampires... I put them right up there with real estate speculators.
* Peer pressure on how I tweak my character. Last I checked, this was my character to run how I pleased, not yours.
* Peer pressure to be on when the group is on, to run their raids. Last I checked, I played games for fun, not to be whipped to the project schedule. Don't I get enough of that at work?
1 Lack of Vision - Pretty much everything excluding a few titles have been EQ clones in one way or the other.
2. The Formula = Pick a race, Pick a class, Now run go go go kill the rats, its ratbashing time, Ah level 4 DING!!!!, check it out I looted a rusty bronze Sword :P Now I can go and kill more rats just with a different name and slightly more hitpoints. And we do this to max level so we can go on a raid and get even more loot. rinse, grind, repeat.
Id like to see a few more games modeled after the Ultima Online skill system or maybe even Oblivion Elder Scrolls gaining system.
Originally posted by Neanderthal What I hate the most? Raiding. Without a doubt. My hatred of raiding comes from my days in EQ, which was my first mmorpg. In the early days I loved that game so much I literally couldn't get enough of it. But over time it changed into a game that basically required you to join a big player organization and spend an inordinate amount of time on those long, boring raids. God I hate raiding so much. It's so...damn...boring. And I hate being treated like a flunky by some pre-pubescent, struting, little jerk. I hate the fact that the worst and most obnoxious players in a game can be the most successfull simply by being willing to go on raids and showing up. And even if I liked the people who are drawn to raids as a way to coast along and could tolerate the boredom; when you get right down to it raiding is just not my idea of what fantasy adventure should be. Milling around in a whole crowd of people and being led around by the nose so that you don't have to think for yourself as you overwhelm things with numbers.....that's not adventure. It's more like punching a time card when you show up for work in a factory and then keeping a low profile and trying to look busy so that the foreman doesn't chew you out. I'm not saying that everything else about EQ was perfect. To be honest I think the whole nature of EQ type games is antiquated now and the genre should be moving on to deeper and more complex games (should be). But raiding is the thing I learned to hate the most while playing EQ. I passed on WoW in large part because I knew it was going to be all about raiding at the end as well. And I'll pass on any game that forces people to raid or be left behind.
Well I agree with you about the raiding part, but you must be smarter than me. I really thought Blizzard would keep raiding on a reasonable leash. I was dead wrong. I knew I didn't want a raiding game and I was under the impression that Blizzard was committed to not making the EQ msitakes. I didn't play EQ but I had heard many stories about raiding and knew I didn't want that. Well I guess I got fooled, but it really just made no sense to me for them to go down that path. I guess I didn't feel the need to be suspicous because I just didn't think they were that stupid. Ah well it was fun while it lasted and I got out before it got too bad.
gestalt11, when WoW was in development they did say that they would have raid content and they did mention, or at least hint, that it would yeild the best item rewards. I don't remember how much they mentioned it but I know that they did. Put those two things together and you inevitably end up with a raiding game at high levels. There's no way around it.
I have tried to help people understand that about another game which is in development now. Not that there is anything wrong with devs making a raiding game. It's just when they sucker non-raiders into a game which will end up revolving around raiding at high levels that they deserve a punch in the face. If they want to make a raiding game they should be up-front about it and promote it as a raiding game. But of course they won't ever be that blunt about it because it would drive away a lot of people. But if you pay attention it isn't too hard to see the warning signs.
Guild Wars: Fantasy isn't my cup of tea, game is actually pretty well done just not for me.
EVE: Love everything just don't like being poor all the time due to pvp.
SWG: If you find any redeeming features concerning this "game" please let me know.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by sempiternal Since an MMOG is first and foremost an online community; poor leadership from the developers.
2. Developers allowing themselves to be influenced by forum or email complaints of the general public.
I agree, theres nothing more annoying than people who think they know whats best for the game. And then the developers get scared and start changing the game. They give in to easily sometimes from fear that the one player making the demands will get others to leave....
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I want to be able to log in with a new character and immediately be doing something I'm going to enjoy doing. And I want the same thing for every minute I play the game.
Grinding, time and money sinks all have there places in traditional mmo's, but feeling the grind is NOT fun.. Whoever the moron was that decided "long grinds are fun" should be dragged into the street, shot in nads, pee'd on, kicked in the teeth, salt poured on top, and then run over by 50 old ladys on bicycles.
EVE - I was attacked by a player during the tutorial while I was learning how to fight in the game. I'm sure he/she had lots of laughs over it. So, i guess this would fall under Community.
WoW - Graphics - too cartoonish.
COV - Customer Service - my characters name was, according to them, offensive - Since it is a common word found in newspapers and magazines I asked them to explain in what way it was offensive and they didn't respond.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
A few things that I hated most about the games I've played:
1. Forced player interaction. I've really only run into this problem on FFXI, and I understand that one of the points of playing an online game is to interact with others. But (on FFXI in particular) I hate it when you are forced to party with others if you want to get anything done. I enjoy working with others, but sometimes, I just wanna play by myself, and I shouldn't have to be forced to party in order to advance in the game.
2. Bad communities. I'm not askng for perfection, but I would like to be able to play a game where everyone treats each other as if they have some decency and intelligence. It's a lot more fun to play when people aren't being annoying. The only thing I hate more than communities with a bunch of idiots...are communities in which no one ever talks...ever...There's something frightening about a game in which no one ever speaks, or a game in which no one speaks the same language as you. I was kinda surprised to find a game in which not a single person spoke English (or if they did, I haven't found them), despite being made available to Americans.
3. Bad graphics and music. I don't expect perfect graphics with orchestrated musical masterpieces. But at least make them bearable.
4. Lvl grinding. I *hate* having to fight the same mobs over and over and over again just to get a lvl up. If I'm going to do that, at least give me a quest or something so that it will at least feel like I have a reason to grind.
5. Kill Stealing. I don't know, a lot of games allow kill stealing. But it's something that gets on my nerves. I really hate being in the middle of a quest, only having one more mob left to kill, and having that mob on its last bit of health, then someone comes along and hits it once, kills it, and takes all of the loot for themselves....
Comments
Things I hate in mmorpgs:
1. zoning (EQ II)
2. courier Quests
3. Artificial boundaries (invisible walls)
4. Bots
5. Lag
6. Forced grouping (raids) as mentioned above.
-Immature Community (Too many to name...)
-Bots (RF Online...)
-Graphics
-Content (RF Online, 100% Grind Fest = Pay?)
If I'm expected to pay for a game I want a decent gaming environment to play in.
An immature community doesn't help, especially if I'm going to grind for an hour or two at a time. Bots destroy the economy and take away the principle of hard work in gaming, making the game less enjoyable for others and hurting the economy. Graphics are just a plus, but if I'm paying for a MMORPG I expect a certain degree of time and effort in it's design.
Most importantly content has to keep me busy and interested. Not just grinding 24/7 but actually doing something to benefit my in-game character. I have no idea how this can be done, but that's up to the MMORPG developers to determine
People who say the graphics turned them off in a game crack me up
... i mean comon.. a game could have the easiest interface/ui system in any game you've ever played. Very noob friendly gameplay and a small small learning curve and your saying that you didnt like it because of graphics?... im actually referring to DAoC. Now, dont get me wrong.. im no fanboi... i actually dont even play DAoC anymore. It ran its course just like all the other games i play. But! out of the games ive, played DAoC was the easiest to learn and get into. (and it wasnt even so simple that it became lame.. it was just straight easy.) Also has one badass PvP system.
It even had a total graphic rehaul at its Catacombs release.
I actually quit because of all the "1337ists" in the RvR zones with their fully buffed fully Templated RR10 toons
Another AMAZING game that was so said to be "spoiled" by bad graphics... Horizons.. that was an incredible game. So much Depth, best crafting hands down!
The lack of PvP is actually what turned me off to this game.
And ANOTHER incredible game that had apparently "unplayable" graphics... Anarchy Online.
This game, while, ill admit, having the least desireable graphics of the 3, has sooo freakin much in-game depth. Im actually just starting to get into this game and ive experienced so much and ive barely scratched the surface. Some stuff is tough to get ahold of ill give ya that.
My point is, what the hell are you actually looking for in a game to let graphics ruin such great games for you?
Conan / WAR dont come out for a while people. Get by with what youve got.
now! the things that actually bugged me in a few MMO's were lack of low level content, gameplay (honerable mentions to Guild Wars and Shadowbane), and Community. Afterall, Without a good community an MMORPG becomes just a plain old RPG that your paying monthly to play o.O yuck.
(the following has officially been my longest post ever on this forum...)
FLAME AWAY BOYS!.. and girls?
Graphics, if a game has bad graphics i have a problem playing it
Community, when every one is ignorant or there just isnt enough people is also a turn off to a game
bugs, horrible boring grinds, bad community and poor customer service
Since an MMOG is first and foremost an online community; poor leadership from the developers.
1. Developers not establishing a clear Vision or Objective for the game, sharing it publicly and sticking to it.
2. Developers allowing themselves to be influenced by forum or email complaints of the general public.
3. Developers not being an active daily player within their own in-game community to stay in-touch.
4. Developers constantly trying to re-invent the game by significantly changing the rules of the game.
5. Developers re-releasing or changing items and gameplay causing the overall value of the game to drop and devaluing previous player's efforts.
My personal gripes (all based on World of Warcraft):
* Game experience changing dramatically after a certain level. The game I've learned to enjoy dies at 60; welcome to World of Raidcraft.
* Players who think that investment of time equals entitlement to rewards. So you have no life and you spent more than twelve hours a day running the same dungeon for the past week, and this is my first run... no, you don't have a greater right to the treasure. Do you think you have a greater right to win the lottery if you buy a ticket daily? Your past effort is irrelevant. You've already received your reward for the previous dungeon runs. The reward wasn't treasure, it was an opportunity to win treasure. If you lost the previous lotteries, tough.
* Servers that crash during world events. Come on, you didn't expect the entire population to try to attend? Why didn't you code the server to immediately kill any < level 10 character that tried to enter the area? That'll stop 'em.
* Gold farmers and their ilk. Economic vampires... I put them right up there with real estate speculators.
* Peer pressure on how I tweak my character. Last I checked, this was my character to run how I pleased, not yours.
* Peer pressure to be on when the group is on, to run their raids. Last I checked, I played games for fun, not to be whipped to the project schedule. Don't I get enough of that at work?
Machinima music videos
http://www.machinima.com/films.php?id=2310
http://www.machinima.com/films.php?id=2382
1 Lack of Vision - Pretty much everything excluding a few titles have been EQ clones in one way or the other.
2. The Formula = Pick a race, Pick a class, Now run go go go kill the rats, its ratbashing time, Ah level 4 DING!!!!, check it out I looted a rusty bronze Sword :P Now I can go and kill more rats just with a different name and slightly more hitpoints.
And we do this to max level so we can go on a raid and get even more loot. rinse, grind, repeat.
Id like to see a few more games modeled after the Ultima Online skill system or maybe even Oblivion Elder Scrolls gaining system.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy
gestalt11, when WoW was in development they did say that they would have raid content and they did mention, or at least hint, that it would yeild the best item rewards. I don't remember how much they mentioned it but I know that they did. Put those two things together and you inevitably end up with a raiding game at high levels. There's no way around it.
I have tried to help people understand that about another game which is in development now. Not that there is anything wrong with devs making a raiding game. It's just when they sucker non-raiders into a game which will end up revolving around raiding at high levels that they deserve a punch in the face. If they want to make a raiding game they should be up-front about it and promote it as a raiding game. But of course they won't ever be that blunt about it because it would drive away a lot of people. But if you pay attention it isn't too hard to see the warning signs.
AO: Don't like leveling and pve system.
Guild Wars: Fantasy isn't my cup of tea, game is actually pretty well done just not for me.
EVE: Love everything just don't like being poor all the time due to pvp.
SWG: If you find any redeeming features concerning this "game" please let me know.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Content... plain and simple...
I want to be able to log in with a new character and immediately be doing something I'm going to enjoy doing. And I want the same thing for every minute I play the game.
Grinding, time and money sinks all have there places in traditional mmo's, but feeling the grind is NOT fun.. Whoever the moron was that decided "long grinds are fun" should be dragged into the street, shot in nads, pee'd on, kicked in the teeth, salt poured on top, and then run over by 50 old ladys on bicycles.
For the record I friggen HATE grinding....
SWG - Bugs/broken Professions
SWG-CU - Bugs
SWG-NGE - FPS gameplay
Face of Mankind - FPS gameplay
EVE - I was attacked by a player during the tutorial while I was learning how to fight in the game. I'm sure he/she had lots of laughs over it. So, i guess this would fall under Community.
WoW - Graphics - too cartoonish.
COV - Customer Service - my characters name was, according to them, offensive - Since it is a common word found in newspapers and magazines I asked them to explain in what way it was offensive and they didn't respond.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
World Of Warcraft - Not being able to talk to other faction.
Lineage 2 - A Grade gear to damn expensive
EQ2 - To damn ugly
City of Heroes - Quest are BORING and all the same.. zzzzzz
1. Forced player interaction. I've really only run into this problem on FFXI, and I understand that one of the points of playing an online game is to interact with others. But (on FFXI in particular) I hate it when you are forced to party with others if you want to get anything done. I enjoy working with others, but sometimes, I just wanna play by myself, and I shouldn't have to be forced to party in order to advance in the game.
2. Bad communities. I'm not askng for perfection, but I would like to be able to play a game where everyone treats each other as if they have some decency and intelligence. It's a lot more fun to play when people aren't being annoying. The only thing I hate more than communities with a bunch of idiots...are communities in which no one ever talks...ever...There's something frightening about a game in which no one ever speaks, or a game in which no one speaks the same language as you. I was kinda surprised to find a game in which not a single person spoke English (or if they did, I haven't found them), despite being made available to Americans.
3. Bad graphics and music. I don't expect perfect graphics with orchestrated musical masterpieces. But at least make them bearable.
4. Lvl grinding. I *hate* having to fight the same mobs over and over and over again just to get a lvl up. If I'm going to do that, at least give me a quest or something so that it will at least feel like I have a reason to grind.
5. Kill Stealing. I don't know, a lot of games allow kill stealing. But it's something that gets on my nerves. I really hate being in the middle of a quest, only having one more mob left to kill, and having that mob on its last bit of health, then someone comes along and hits it once, kills it, and takes all of the loot for themselves....