Originally posted by franksalbe More money will not make a better game if the person managing the resources doesnt know what their doing.
Exactly.
Take for example WoW, record breaking subscriptions and profits for a MMORPG. Yet nothing really spectacular in plan except a brand new expansion that you AGAIN have to pay for besides the monthlys.
Imo, the more profits a company makes, the better the game will become in say the coming year. However, if profits become ridiculous to the point the company can't begin to comprehend what they're making, things will not necessarily become better becomes the company knows they can still make large profits without necessarily adding much new content regularly, or fixing problems in-game.
I vote no on this. Thorwing money on a problem and saying make it better doesn't slove it. And I know Guild Wars goes get trashed on a lot, but look at that game. It has no money fee and it's better than most of the free games out there.
one the one hand, ONE night out clubbing can easily cost $50-100+. so $25+/month for entertainment isn't crazy talk, not if looked at from that angle.
on the other hand. there's a lot of games that started off great, but went to hell in a handbasket because of some assclown dev (kaplan/pardo). some games started out so/so, made a lot of improvements and because of some mysterious and every changing "vision" they keep getting jacked as well (COx). a higher fee on either of these would be justification (for me) to not even give them a new go every 6+ months to see if they've improved the gameplay. whereas a lower fee on games like these, might have me trying them more often and maybe even a few of them at a time.
kids can, and do, get parents to use CCs for things that require them. even if a kid is too young to mow grass, that kid might get a few bucks a week allowance. if a parent sees a kid playing a game instead of bothering them (since most parents seem to believe that TV is supposed to raise their kids nowadays); then, why wouldn't they let the kid use their monthly allowance to play a game (instead of giving cash to the child, just use your CC to pay the monthly game fee).
but, on the other hand, if console games go for $30-60, and if they EVER start dropping in price for new games OR monthly fees go up on MMOs.... wtf would you want to pay a monthly fee to play the same old game month after month, with ass clowns screwing up and not giving you the content YOU want; when you could take that SAME money and just buy a new game (or two) every month instead? so in a year's time i have a dozen games to choose from, vs a game full of nerfs and raids that you have to quit your job in order to play-in because it's a job NOT a game...
just throwing it out there. it'll dawn on someone in the console market (eventually) about how much monthly charges for MMOs are, and then that someone will cut their prices and kill a lot of the fluff mmos overnight.
just my opinion. can't really be proved/disproved until it happens.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Of course, this is an excellent time to point out that some "genius" thought up toll roads and sold them to the public on the very same basis that the OP suggested a higher-fee game. And look how good a job it's done...
on a sidenote... don't toll roads pay for their own maintenance/upkeep/et cetera
vs
we common folks getting yet another tax ?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
there is not much accountability in monthly fees. There s countless games out there with abysmal quality that charge 15$ a month like the rest too that should be proof enough for that. Money does not make a better game. More Money wouldn t even guarrantee more content.
The casual chain actually works the exacte opposite way. A good and diligent dev game will make a good game, and a good game usually will make more money. See Eve s success and raising subscriber numbers as an example, Eve started very very small.
And no, WoW is not a counterpoint, its just an example of brand loyality. Because Blizzard (who also started small) made very good games earlier, everyone bhought their new game also. WoWs success as such is a direct result of Blizzards earlier track record, and not related to the fact that you personally have to fork over 15$ each month.
summa summarum: Good Dev teams make good games. Paying them more money might be nice for them but won t necessarily impact the quality of their work at all. (and you can t just increase dev team size and hope to still hold the same level of quality either).... and of course, forking over good money to bad dev teams won t make their games better at all. even if you paid them 100$ a month You could however argue that too much "easy" money (like monthly fees) makes a dev team too lazy.
on a sidenote... don't toll roads pay for their own maintenance/upkeep/et cetera
vs
we common folks getting yet another tax ?
Gasoline taxes are already used to pay for roads, both maintenance and new construction. Toll roads are just a way to fool you into paying twice for the privilege of travelling from one place to another, because you still use gas while you're driving on them and thus you're paying both for the road you're on, and another road you're not on. Maybe that is good for the "common folks" but it seems to me that the toll drivers are being duped.
Bringing this back into the context of an MMORPG, consider that everyone paying for an MMO game is paying for both upkeep and development costs. Toll roads are a bit like game expansions. To access the new expansion content, you have to pay extra money for it AND you have to keep paying the monthly fee you were already paying. Sweet deal for the developers, isn't it? They use your money to fund development of new content, that they then charge you more money to play. And expansions are even more successful than toll roads, because we're all fools and we all want the new content.
Originally posted by Marten! Originally posted by damian7
on a sidenote... don't toll roads pay for their own maintenance/upkeep/et cetera
vs
we common folks getting yet another tax ?
Gasoline taxes are already used to pay for roads, both maintenance and new construction. Toll roads are just a way to fool you into paying twice for the privilege of travelling from one place to another, because you still use gas while you're driving on them and thus you're paying both for the road you're on, and another road you're not on. Maybe that is good for the "common folks" but it seems to me that the toll drivers are being duped.
Bringing this back into the context of an MMORPG, consider that everyone paying for an MMO game is paying for both upkeep and development costs. Toll roads are a bit like game expansions. To access the new expansion content, you have to pay extra money for it AND you have to keep paying the monthly fee you were already paying. Sweet deal for the developers, isn't it? They use your money to fund development of new content, that they then charge you more money to play. And expansions are even more successful than toll roads, because we're all fools and we all want the new content.
odd, must just be in missouri and louisiana that i get to vote on and hear city councilmen talk about different taxes (like property taxes) going towards upkeep and improvements on the local roads. oh well, i guess the other 48 states do it differently.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Praor Originally posted by XenduliOriginally posted by PraorAhh yes the infamous Xenduli,listen I know your profile says your 96 ( lol 16 maybe less),but you are a prime reason why this post is made. And I do apologize to you,I had no idea that when I said up the fee with no game cards was gonna hit you so hard. In time you will get a job and have a credit card. Lol keep it coming though.Funny how when someone disagrees with someone else on this forum they get called a kid. It's a pity praor you have no idea how real life business or economics work, perhaps that's why your suggestion isn't very good. I don't agree with you at all, but at least I don't go around calling someone a kid because I don't agree with them. P.S. Had no idea I was infamous ?! Your can agree/disagree,That's why the post is here. Just because this idea is something you could not afford,isnt really valid. On another note it makes me smile ( serious to) that I hit your soft spot when I called you a kid.
I'd still like to know who these "a lot" or "many others" are, unlike you I don't make wild assumptions. Judging by the response in this thread alone it is a wild assumption.
I would pay a considerable amount for a game like this and so would many others but there are a lot who wouldn't ( mostly because they can't or do not have a credit card) ...The kind you wanna weed out but hell for them throw the same ,of course on a different server ????
It makes me smile that you changes your sig from "Currently playing : Guild Wars" to "Currently playing : Nothing right now".
Tired of cybering with your female necro were you?
More money might = a better game, But you also have to pay the people you hire as well to make it a better game and have them happy. To not take advantage of there system they put in place for gm's
What I want in a game is nice graphics, stable servers and a great community.. quests as well.. but not some one with a arrow telling you to do this quest showing you where the quests is.. the purpose of a game is to play it your way and to explore.. not for some every hint laong the way.. thats just not challangeing .. and most games now days have that... in place as part of there system.. kind of sad when some games as pg 13 but yet the gameing compaines make there games so easy that a 4 year old can play..
Playing daoc and loving it totally.. have Played Eq,Eq2,WoW,Coh,Cov, and other.. which i have forgotten..
Originally posted by Praor Good reply's so far but to the one poster you forgot about when I said " In return you will get ",very important to remember that part
It's so rare where that is maintained. In the very beginning, this seems the case, but once the projected profits are seen, quality invariably goes down and the higher prices start creeping more into the profit base. In a perfect world, this wouldn't happen, but we don't live in that world. We live in a society that values getting as much as they can out of you for as little effort. Anyone buy "Budget Gourmet" frozen dinners? It's a great example, so well done that people don't remember what actually happened. When they were released, they had a lot more food in each one than they do now. The prices maintained but then they cut back on portions constantly until now where the portions are miniscule in comparison to what they first released. Because consumer demand dropped, they dropped the price, so in the end, they ended up giving less quality and had to lower the price.
Generaly speaking and exeptions do exist, the no-money games are worse then the p2p games, but as mentioned from others these are still nothing more then games, to hugely overprise a game just in hopes that you will get a litle better service is a folly and SoE did prove this with their so called premium memberships.
I think the industry has at the momen found the golden line charging the amount of money that most would agree to pay for, and again generaly speaking and exeptions do exist, they offer acceptable services for this money.
Originally posted by Praor Originally posted by Xenduli
Originally posted by PraorAhh yes the infamous Xenduli,listen I know your profile says your 96 ( lol 16 maybe less),but you are a prime reason why this post is made. And I do apologize to you,I had no idea that when I said up the fee with no game cards was gonna hit you so hard. In time you will get a job and have a credit card. Lol keep it coming though. Funny how when someone disagrees with someone else on this forum they get called a kid. It's a pity praor you have no idea how real life business or economics work, perhaps that's why your suggestion isn't very good. I don't agree with you at all, but at least I don't go around calling someone a kid because I don't agree with them. P.S. Had no idea I was infamous ?! Your can agree/disagree,That's why the post is here. Just because this idea is something you could not afford,isnt really valid. On another note it makes me smile ( serious to) that I hit your soft spot when I called you a kid.
I'd still like to know who these "a lot" or "many others" are, unlike you I don't make wild assumptions. Judging by the response in this thread alone it is a wild assumption.
I would pay a considerable amount for a game like this and so would many others but there are a lot who wouldn't ( mostly because they can't or do not have a credit card) ...The kind you wanna weed out but hell for them throw the same ,of course on a different server ????
It makes me smile that you changes your sig from "Currently playing : Guild Wars" to "Currently playing : Nothing right now".
Tired of cybering with your female necro were you?
So your parents finally gave you your pc back to respond. Just be honest,this thread hit you hard only because you have to rely on gamecards.... nuff said when you get older and start making intelligent posts you might get some respect here.
Edit: Lol could ya be anymore creative then using a quote from a Nirvana song. ....ouch
I'd gladly pay more for a high quality MMOG. But unfortunatley we're not gonna see any really high quality MMOGs for years to come, 2010-2012 and beyond.
The biggest hinderance to having really great MMOGs is the gamers themsevles! Many gamers are not very demanding...not at all; they will always be satisfied with whatever over-hyped junk publishers dump on the market, just as long as it has elves in it. These people have the "McDonalds" mentality and will never rise above it.
fortunatley there's a growing number of smarter, better educated people coming into the fold now; these people are usually far more discriminating than the common man and demand higher quality goods and services. My guess is that at some point in the not-too-distant future we'll begin to see Virtual Reality MMOGs that will cater to the more discriminating gamer or the high end gamers as they will be called.
Virtual Reality MMOGs will be very expensive to play, prolly in the neighborhood of $50-$100 a month plus another $80-$100 a month for a high speed VDSL-2 internet connection, not to mention the $15,000-$20,000 in VR gear!
Maybe the game would have better content, better graphics and more frequent updates but if the price per month is too high then maybe its community will be nothing compared to the other games because quite a lot of people are either not prepared to pay much more and/or they cannot afford to pay much more.
There are more and more 'mature' aged gamers out there these days - 30yrs + who grew up on super nintendos and Civ on our old 486s. I love games and I've got the money to spend on quality products. If it could be clearly demonstrated that the higher fees resulted in a better, smoother, bot-free gaming experience and provided that the content was immersive enough I'd happily shell out extra moolah. I also like the idea of user-choose and user-pays system where you can select ptions and features you want in order to fully tailor your gaming experience.
Every fight is a food fight when you're a cannibal.
why in the hell are you trying to pay for stuff you should get anyway? you guys know that you are the consumer right, not the supplier??
the way it works is... they try to raise prices to the max we as consumers will support, and we try to pay as little as possible for what we want... maybe you think a higher price on MMO's will somehow make them more exclusive or something?
if you raise prices past a certain point, you will lose more subscriptions than you gain from the extra profit and the services delivered in the end will actually be worse than they were with higher numbers of people paying lower prices.
Comments
Take for example WoW, record breaking subscriptions and profits for a MMORPG. Yet nothing really spectacular in plan except a brand new expansion that you AGAIN have to pay for besides the monthlys.
Imo, the more profits a company makes, the better the game will become in say the coming year. However, if profits become ridiculous to the point the company can't begin to comprehend what they're making, things will not necessarily become better becomes the company knows they can still make large profits without necessarily adding much new content regularly, or fixing problems in-game.
on the other hand. there's a lot of games that started off great, but went to hell in a handbasket because of some assclown dev (kaplan/pardo). some games started out so/so, made a lot of improvements and because of some mysterious and every changing "vision" they keep getting jacked as well (COx). a higher fee on either of these would be justification (for me) to not even give them a new go every 6+ months to see if they've improved the gameplay. whereas a lower fee on games like these, might have me trying them more often and maybe even a few of them at a time.
kids can, and do, get parents to use CCs for things that require them. even if a kid is too young to mow grass, that kid might get a few bucks a week allowance. if a parent sees a kid playing a game instead of bothering them (since most parents seem to believe that TV is supposed to raise their kids nowadays); then, why wouldn't they let the kid use their monthly allowance to play a game (instead of giving cash to the child, just use your CC to pay the monthly game fee).
but, on the other hand, if console games go for $30-60, and if they EVER start dropping in price for new games OR monthly fees go up on MMOs.... wtf would you want to pay a monthly fee to play the same old game month after month, with ass clowns screwing up and not giving you the content YOU want; when you could take that SAME money and just buy a new game (or two) every month instead? so in a year's time i have a dozen games to choose from, vs a game full of nerfs and raids that you have to quit your job in order to play-in because it's a job NOT a game...
just throwing it out there. it'll dawn on someone in the console market (eventually) about how much monthly charges for MMOs are, and then that someone will cut their prices and kill a lot of the fluff mmos overnight.
just my opinion. can't really be proved/disproved until it happens.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
on a sidenote... don't toll roads pay for their own maintenance/upkeep/et cetera
vs
we common folks getting yet another tax ?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
there is not much accountability in monthly fees. There s countless games out there with abysmal quality that charge 15$ a month like the rest too that should be proof enough for that. Money does not make a better game. More Money wouldn t even guarrantee more content.
The casual chain actually works the exacte opposite way. A good and diligent dev game will make a good game, and a good game usually will make more money. See Eve s success and raising subscriber numbers as an example, Eve started very very small.
And no, WoW is not a counterpoint, its just an example of brand loyality. Because Blizzard (who also started small) made very good games earlier, everyone bhought their new game also. WoWs success as such is a direct result of Blizzards earlier track record, and not related to the fact that you personally have to fork over 15$ each month.
summa summarum: Good Dev teams make good games. Paying them more money might be nice for them but won t necessarily impact the quality of their work at all. (and you can t just increase dev team size and hope to still hold the same level of quality either).... and of course, forking over good money to bad dev teams won t make their games better at all. even if you paid them 100$ a month
Bringing this back into the context of an MMORPG, consider that everyone paying for an MMO game is paying for both upkeep and development costs. Toll roads are a bit like game expansions. To access the new expansion content, you have to pay extra money for it AND you have to keep paying the monthly fee you were already paying. Sweet deal for the developers, isn't it? They use your money to fund development of new content, that they then charge you more money to play. And expansions are even more successful than toll roads, because we're all fools and we all want the new content.
Machinima music videos
http://www.machinima.com/films.php?id=2310
http://www.machinima.com/films.php?id=2382
Bringing this back into the context of an MMORPG, consider that everyone paying for an MMO game is paying for both upkeep and development costs. Toll roads are a bit like game expansions. To access the new expansion content, you have to pay extra money for it AND you have to keep paying the monthly fee you were already paying. Sweet deal for the developers, isn't it? They use your money to fund development of new content, that they then charge you more money to play. And expansions are even more successful than toll roads, because we're all fools and we all want the new content.
odd, must just be in missouri and louisiana that i get to vote on and hear city councilmen talk about different taxes (like property taxes) going towards upkeep and improvements on the local roads. oh well, i guess the other 48 states do it differently.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I think that more money = better game. but that does not mean that the game is funnier then a game with less budget!
I'd still like to know who these "a lot" or "many others" are, unlike you I don't make wild assumptions. Judging by the response in this thread alone it is a wild assumption.
It makes me smile that you changes your sig from "Currently playing : Guild Wars" to "Currently playing : Nothing right now".
Tired of cybering with your female necro were you?
No annoying animated GIF here!
What I want in a game is nice graphics, stable servers and a great community.. quests as well.. but not some one with a arrow telling you to do this quest showing you where the quests is.. the purpose of a game is to play it your way and to explore.. not for some every hint laong the way.. thats just not challangeing .. and most games now days have that... in place as part of there system.. kind of sad when some games as pg 13 but yet the gameing compaines make there games so easy that a 4 year old can play..
Playing daoc and loving it totally..
have Played
Eq,Eq2,WoW,Coh,Cov,
and other..
which i have forgotten..
My blog:
http://www.littlesarbonn.com
Anyone remember the joke that was the "Everquest Legends" server? 40$ a month for empty promises lol.
the "more money" for "better (cough)" game idea has been tried actually, and failed.
I think the industry has at the momen found the golden line charging the amount of money that most would agree to pay for, and again generaly speaking and exeptions do exist, they offer acceptable services for this money.
I'd still like to know who these "a lot" or "many others" are, unlike you I don't make wild assumptions. Judging by the response in this thread alone it is a wild assumption.
It makes me smile that you changes your sig from "Currently playing : Guild Wars" to "Currently playing : Nothing right now".
Tired of cybering with your female necro were you?
So your parents finally gave you your pc back to respond. Just be honest,this thread hit you hard only because you have to rely on gamecards.... nuff said when you get older and start making intelligent posts you might get some respect here.
Edit: Lol could ya be anymore creative then using a quote from a Nirvana song. ....ouch
Waiting on Guild Wars 2
The biggest hinderance to having really great MMOGs is the gamers themsevles! Many gamers are not very demanding...not at all; they will always be satisfied with whatever over-hyped junk publishers dump on the market, just as long as it has elves in it. These people have the "McDonalds" mentality and will never rise above it.
fortunatley there's a growing number of smarter, better educated people coming into the fold now; these people are usually far more discriminating than the common man and demand higher quality goods and services. My guess is that at some point in the not-too-distant future we'll begin to see Virtual Reality MMOGs that will cater to the more discriminating gamer or the high end gamers as they will be called.
Virtual Reality MMOGs will be very expensive to play, prolly in the neighborhood of $50-$100 a month plus another $80-$100 a month for a high speed VDSL-2 internet connection, not to mention the $15,000-$20,000 in VR gear!
Me and my checkbook are ready, I say bring it on!
-Navster
-Navsterz
Every fight is a food fight when you're a cannibal.
why in the hell are you trying to pay for stuff you should get anyway? you guys know that you are the consumer right, not the supplier??
the way it works is... they try to raise prices to the max we as consumers will support, and we try to pay as little as possible for what we want... maybe you think a higher price on MMO's will somehow make them more exclusive or something?
if you raise prices past a certain point, you will lose more subscriptions than you gain from the extra profit and the services delivered in the end will actually be worse than they were with higher numbers of people paying lower prices.