Originally posted by Selbram I've been following DnL for over a couple of years now and I'm finally getting the message not to believe them to be very un-professional .. so I not supprised by this .
okay I seem to be having a comprehension problem with post lately. You are not believing that they are very unprofessional?
In hindsight, Vuuarr probably should not have made that statement.
After all, asking those that play the most to rate it could only be a bad thing. How could you play for more than 2 hours and honestly give any part of the game anything higher than a 2?
Originally posted by Phear-Me In hindsight, Vuuarr probably should not have made that statement. After all, asking those that play the most to rate it could only be a bad thing. How could you play for more than 2 hours and honestly give any part of the game anything higher than a 2?
Originally posted by BadT I am not quite sure what you are saying here. Do you believe that what the Devs did as well as the fans -- rating their game a 10 and all others a 1 fair? Or are you saying that giving it a rating without playing it was fair? Or are you saying that rating it without playing it was fair simply because of the unethical practice of the devs and its fans?
What I was trying to say is that rating a game you haven't played is an act of bad faith. People do it all the time on this site, and nobody takes it too seriously, but I felt kind of bad about doing it myself. I did it because for a developer (or community manager, or volunteer, anybody) to go to a game's playerbase (such as it is) and say, "Go over there and give the other games 1s" is more than an act of bad faith, it's completely corrupt. I don't care if they're half joking. I've been watching DnL's long, slow, death, happy to stay on the sidelines. Then I got mad, and for a second I jumped in.
I was posting to point to the fact that the strategy (telling people to go give other games low ratings) is likely to backfire. I don't think Farlan realizes how many people have been paying attention to their actions. They seem to think the only people who notice their behavior are the ones who preordered. That the only people who dislike them are the ones who post flame threads. If everybody who thinks they're scum went ahead and rated the game, there would be a lot more people rating it than ever actually played it. That was my point.
Anyway, it might be an interesting moral question if the ratings on this site weren't so obviously bogus. Tons of people mention they haven't played the game when they leave their comments. For some of the third tier games, all you have to do is glance at the screen to spot the Korean marketing dudes using babelfish.
Originally posted by TheAesthete Originally posted by BadT I am not quite sure what you are saying here. Do you believe that what the Devs did as well as the fans -- rating their game a 10 and all others a 1 fair? Or are you saying that giving it a rating without playing it was fair? Or are you saying that rating it without playing it was fair simply because of the unethical practice of the devs and its fans?
What I was trying to say is that rating a game you haven't played is an act of bad faith. People do it all the time on this site, and nobody takes it too seriously, but I felt kind of bad about doing it myself. I did it because for a developer (or community manager, or volunteer, anybody) to go to a game's playerbase (such as it is) and say, "Go over there and give the other games 1s" is more than an act of bad faith, it's completely corrupt. I don't care if they're half joking. I've been watching DnL's long, slow, death, happy to stay on the sidelines. Then I got mad, and for a second I jumped in.
I was posting to point to the fact that the strategy (telling people to go give other games low ratings) is likely to backfire. I don't think Farlan realizes how many people have been paying attention to their actions. They seem to think the only people who notice their behavior are the ones who preordered. That the only people who dislike them are the ones who post flame threads. If everybody who thinks they're scum went ahead and rated the game, there would be a lot more people rating it than ever actually played it. That was my point.
Anyway, it might be an interesting moral question if the ratings on this site weren't so obviously bogus. Tons of people mention they haven't played the game when they leave their comments. For some of the third tier games, all you have to do is glance at the screen to spot the Korean marketing dudes using babelfish.
Aye, agree 100%. Personally, I have never rated a game I havent played simply because I cant answer the questions about it LOL But like you, I too think this whole thing can and probably will backfire on them if it hasnt already. Then again, that seems to be their mode of operation as it is anyway.
And yes, I too think they dont believe that many many people are watching and forming opinions from not only the posts (good and bad) but also of the actions of the Developers and the Mods. It almost appears as tho they seem them as invisible, "to ignore" type of things..if you dont see it , it doesnt exist kinda thing all the while pushing the hype over the top of the meter. Watch my right hand so you dont see what the left hand is doing kinda things.
and yes, as with this game, you can see the french babelfish being used. Its almost like a "generic" hype post that all must post with just a few words changed around. (the one about the rating review and the lalaland dreams though still sticks in my brain as the ultimate! in hyped reviews!)
I'm going to go with a different take. I believe the ratings on this site are useful and helpful.
Are they scientific? No.. Not in the least. Are there shills? Yep, Are there fans and haters that rate their game a 10 and the others a 1? Sure. But at the end up the day the cream still rises and the .. well.. stuff that isn't cream.. sinks.
The best games get pulled down by the haters/jealous and the really bad ones get a boost from the shills/fans.. It tends to reduce the standard dev.. but not the relative results.
The mass of the public (hundreds to thousands of votes) ends up drowning out the extremes.
Look at the top 10.. They all may not be your type of game, but they deserve to be where they are. Look at the bottom 10.. Same thing.
DnL does not have a rabid conspiracy of liars here or at any other site. It's a bad game compounded by a Dev team that think lying is an acceptable way to do buisness... If any game has ever earned a 3.8, it is DnL.
Originally posted by Galaxy I'm going to go with a different take. I believe the ratings on this site are useful and helpful. Are they scientific? No.. Not in the least. Are there shills? Yep, Are there fans and haters that rate their game a 10 and the others a 1? Sure. But at the end up the day the cream still rises and the .. well.. stuff that isn't cream.. sinks. The best games get pulled down by the haters/jealous and the really bad ones get a boost from the shills/fans.. It tends to reduce the standard dev.. but not the relative results. The mass of the public (hundreds to thousands of votes) ends up drowning out the extremes. Look at the top 10.. They all may not be your type of game, but they deserve to be where they are. Look at the bottom 10.. Same thing. DnL does not have a rabid conspiracy of liars here or at any other site. It's a bad game compounded by a Dev team that think lying is an acceptable way to do buisness... If any game has ever earned a 3.8, it is DnL.
You know what, I do actually agree with you. Can I agree with you, and with myself, even though you're going with a different take?
Like EVE. I'm not playing it anymore, but it's still in my heart as one of my all-time favorites. I know that EVE pushes hard to get players to rate the game (they don't ask them to rate other games low, though!), and I know that's why it's on top. It's not a scientific sample, the deviations are all wrong, and there's an essential statistical flaw to a game with a couple hundred thousand players going up against a game with five million and winning. . . but it wouldn't be there if it wasn't, at some essential level, a good game.
Originally posted by TheAesthete You know what, I do actually agree with you. Can I agree with you, and with myself, even though you're going with a different take? Like EVE. I'm not playing it anymore, but it's still in my heart as one of my all-time favorites. I know that EVE pushes hard to get players to rate the game (they don't ask them to rate other games low, though!), and I know that's why it's on top. It's not a scientific sample, the deviations are all wrong, and there's an essential statistical flaw to a game with a couple hundred thousand players going up against a game with five million and winning. . . but it wouldn't be there if it wasn't, at some essential level, a good game.
If you notice too they keep trying to compare themselves to those top games. Thats simple ignorant arrogance. Im not saying a small company should come on board with the tail between their legs, what I am saying is, they realllllly need to stop with the comparisons of the top games and especially SWG , which is in the toilet anyway and believe that they are well within the same league! Simple, ignorant arrogance. Further alienating any kind of fan base whatsoever.
Originally posted by LilBoPeep People are now saying he never said this. I think this needs to be bumped so that they can see that yes indeed, he did say this.
They deny everything, even when its in thier face. Manipulation is the key to their marketing plan. Nothing more nothing less. Its all they have.
Originally posted by Cholayna Originally posted by LilBoPeep People are now saying he never said this. I think this needs to be bumped so that they can see that yes indeed, he did say this.
They deny everything, even when its in thier face. Manipulation is the key to their marketing plan. Nothing more nothing less. Its all they have.
so true
Even the whole SOG isn't D&L debacle, people still believe they were actually different clients when in fact some of the beta testers confirmed that they were exactly the same thing.
Originally posted by _Unicron_ Originally posted by Cholayna Originally posted by LilBoPeep People are now saying he never said this. I think this needs to be bumped so that they can see that yes indeed, he did say this.
They deny everything, even when its in thier face. Manipulation is the key to their marketing plan. Nothing more nothing less. Its all they have.
so true
Even the whole SOG isn't D&L debacle, people still believe they were actually different clients when in fact some of the beta testers confirmed that they were exactly the same thing.
They are still denying the SOG isnt DNL lololololol. Absolutely amazing
Originally posted by Alouisious Originally posted by _Unicron_ Originally posted by Cholayna Originally posted by LilBoPeep People are now saying he never said this. I think this needs to be bumped so that they can see that yes indeed, he did say this.
They deny everything, even when its in thier face. Manipulation is the key to their marketing plan. Nothing more nothing less. Its all they have.
so true
Even the whole SOG isn't D&L debacle, people still believe they were actually different clients when in fact some of the beta testers confirmed that they were exactly the same thing.
They are still denying the SOG isnt DNL lololololol. Absolutely amazing
They are denying the crappiness of the game! They would argue the sky is blue if Farlan said it was purple.
They are still going with it. Backing off a bit for now but just biding their time for yet another round of shill.
Thing is, with each new craptastic patch and miserable event, it just makes them wait longer and think harder about what is so damned good about this game LOL
Originally posted by LilBoPeep They are still going with it. Backing off a bit for now but just biding their time for yet another round of shill. Thing is, with each new craptastic patch and miserable event, it just makes them wait longer and think harder about what is so damned good about this game LOL
I dunno Lilbo, seems to me they ran outta good comebacks a long time ago, They just come up with the same lame flames to anything other than a "great potential". Lying through their teeth when the truth is right there in front of ppls eyes, its so incredibly unbelieveable. If it wasnt truly happening, you could never dream up a fiasco such as Farlan/NP3/DNL.
Originally posted by lysanding I dunt think any of this matters.. the real question is how do they have enough people playing to pay the bills?
All the thousands angry pioneers could put Farlan to sleep if they wanted to invest a little time and money into it. All go to freedompack and then login 24 hours a day and just sit there and eat bandwith. Farlan would receive no monthly fees from freedompackers but they still had to pay for their monthly traffic. And since Farlan has a weird netcode that receives and send a lot more data compared to other games it would add up quick. Would kill them in a few months.
8881 pioneers originally sold out in a few days. The majority asked for refund and Farlan resold those accounts. I'm pretty sure the majority of the new pioneers has asked for refunds too.
it would be a small sum for each pioneer to have his PC turned all day long logging into DnL as freedompacker but man it would hurt Farlan.
Yeah i know,i'm in the Evil corner today. Blaim EA for taking over Mythic. Bastards.
Originally posted by virtuella Blaim EA for taking over Mythic. Bastards.
Take it easy, Virtuella. EA did not take over Mythic. It's a consolidation of resources which will allow Mythic to give Warhammer the attention it deserves without neglecting the ongoing improvment of DAoC.
And to keep this post on topic, the only people dumber than the DnL developers are the DnL producers who have been pounding money down a rat hole for the last 6 years and all they got to show for it is DnL.
It would appear he is losing a bit of his army a little more each day. Reading over the forums and talking to a friend who is in game, many old timers who have held out have decided they have had it. A guild we both know also pulled out. A slow painful death. The shills are just ineffectual life support.
Originally posted by hakenaton Wow it's the jungle!By the way how you cancel your DnL subscription? Their FAQ sent me to the login to my account but can find no where on how to cancel my subscription. Anyone can help?
Originally posted by hakenaton Wow it's the jungle!
By the way how you cancel your DnL subscription? Their FAQ sent me to the login to my account but can find no where on how to cancel my subscription. Anyone can help?
Indeed! Now to counter the huge fiasco of the last "fix it patch rollback fuck up" I guess they are trying to throw out a distraction with new stuff? Incredible. Piss ppl off more.
When are they gonna get it? You feed ppl shit, they complain. You DONT keep feeding them shit, telling them to ignore it, and pile more shit on top of their plate!!! Its totally f***g nuts!!
Comments
In hindsight, Vuuarr probably should not have made that statement.
After all, asking those that play the most to rate it could only be a bad thing. How could you play for more than 2 hours and honestly give any part of the game anything higher than a 2?
What I was trying to say is that rating a game you haven't played is an act of bad faith. People do it all the time on this site, and nobody takes it too seriously, but I felt kind of bad about doing it myself. I did it because for a developer (or community manager, or volunteer, anybody) to go to a game's playerbase (such as it is) and say, "Go over there and give the other games 1s" is more than an act of bad faith, it's completely corrupt. I don't care if they're half joking. I've been watching DnL's long, slow, death, happy to stay on the sidelines. Then I got mad, and for a second I jumped in.
I was posting to point to the fact that the strategy (telling people to go give other games low ratings) is likely to backfire. I don't think Farlan realizes how many people have been paying attention to their actions. They seem to think the only people who notice their behavior are the ones who preordered. That the only people who dislike them are the ones who post flame threads. If everybody who thinks they're scum went ahead and rated the game, there would be a lot more people rating it than ever actually played it. That was my point.
Anyway, it might be an interesting moral question if the ratings on this site weren't so obviously bogus. Tons of people mention they haven't played the game when they leave their comments. For some of the third tier games, all you have to do is glance at the screen to spot the Korean marketing dudes using babelfish.
What I was trying to say is that rating a game you haven't played is an act of bad faith. People do it all the time on this site, and nobody takes it too seriously, but I felt kind of bad about doing it myself. I did it because for a developer (or community manager, or volunteer, anybody) to go to a game's playerbase (such as it is) and say, "Go over there and give the other games 1s" is more than an act of bad faith, it's completely corrupt. I don't care if they're half joking. I've been watching DnL's long, slow, death, happy to stay on the sidelines. Then I got mad, and for a second I jumped in.
I was posting to point to the fact that the strategy (telling people to go give other games low ratings) is likely to backfire. I don't think Farlan realizes how many people have been paying attention to their actions. They seem to think the only people who notice their behavior are the ones who preordered. That the only people who dislike them are the ones who post flame threads. If everybody who thinks they're scum went ahead and rated the game, there would be a lot more people rating it than ever actually played it. That was my point.
Anyway, it might be an interesting moral question if the ratings on this site weren't so obviously bogus. Tons of people mention they haven't played the game when they leave their comments. For some of the third tier games, all you have to do is glance at the screen to spot the Korean marketing dudes using babelfish.
Aye, agree 100%. Personally, I have never rated a game I havent played simply because I cant answer the questions about it LOL But like you, I too think this whole thing can and probably will backfire on them if it hasnt already. Then again, that seems to be their mode of operation as it is anyway.
And yes, I too think they dont believe that many many people are watching and forming opinions from not only the posts (good and bad) but also of the actions of the Developers and the Mods. It almost appears as tho they seem them as invisible, "to ignore" type of things..if you dont see it , it doesnt exist kinda thing all the while pushing the hype over the top of the meter. Watch my right hand so you dont see what the left hand is doing kinda things.
and yes, as with this game, you can see the french babelfish being used. Its almost like a "generic" hype post that all must post with just a few words changed around. (the one about the rating review and the lalaland dreams though still sticks in my brain as the ultimate! in hyped reviews!)
I'm going to go with a different take. I believe the ratings on this site are useful and helpful.
Are they scientific? No.. Not in the least. Are there shills? Yep, Are there fans and haters that rate their game a 10 and the others a 1? Sure. But at the end up the day the cream still rises and the .. well.. stuff that isn't cream.. sinks.
The best games get pulled down by the haters/jealous and the really bad ones get a boost from the shills/fans.. It tends to reduce the standard dev.. but not the relative results.
The mass of the public (hundreds to thousands of votes) ends up drowning out the extremes.
Look at the top 10.. They all may not be your type of game, but they deserve to be where they are. Look at the bottom 10.. Same thing.
DnL does not have a rabid conspiracy of liars here or at any other site. It's a bad game compounded by a Dev team that think lying is an acceptable way to do buisness... If any game has ever earned a 3.8, it is DnL.
You know what, I do actually agree with you. Can I agree with you, and with myself, even though you're going with a different take?
Like EVE. I'm not playing it anymore, but it's still in my heart as one of my all-time favorites. I know that EVE pushes hard to get players to rate the game (they don't ask them to rate other games low, though!), and I know that's why it's on top. It's not a scientific sample, the deviations are all wrong, and there's an essential statistical flaw to a game with a couple hundred thousand players going up against a game with five million and winning. . . but it wouldn't be there if it wasn't, at some essential level, a good game.
People are now saying he never said this. I think this needs to be bumped so that they can see that yes indeed, he did say this.
so true
Even the whole SOG isn't D&L debacle, people still believe they were actually different clients when in fact some of the beta testers confirmed that they were exactly the same thing.
so true
Even the whole SOG isn't D&L debacle, people still believe they were actually different clients when in fact some of the beta testers confirmed that they were exactly the same thing.
They are still denying the SOG isnt DNL lololololol. Absolutely amazing
so true
Even the whole SOG isn't D&L debacle, people still believe they were actually different clients when in fact some of the beta testers confirmed that they were exactly the same thing.
They are still denying the SOG isnt DNL lololololol. Absolutely amazing
They are denying the crappiness of the game! They would argue the sky is blue if Farlan said it was purple.
They are still going with it. Backing off a bit for now but just biding their time for yet another round of shill.
Thing is, with each new craptastic patch and miserable event, it just makes them wait longer and think harder about what is so damned good about this game LOL
All go to freedompack and then login 24 hours a day and just sit there and eat bandwith.
Farlan would receive no monthly fees from freedompackers but they still had to pay for their monthly traffic.
And since Farlan has a weird netcode that receives and send a lot more data compared to other games it would add up quick.
Would kill them in a few months.
8881 pioneers originally sold out in a few days.
The majority asked for refund and Farlan resold those accounts.
I'm pretty sure the majority of the new pioneers has asked for refunds too.
it would be a small sum for each pioneer to have his PC turned all day long logging into DnL as freedompacker but man it would hurt Farlan.
Yeah i know,i'm in the Evil corner today.
Blaim EA for taking over Mythic.
Bastards.
___________________________________________
Take it easy, Virtuella. EA did not take over Mythic. It's a consolidation of resources which will allow Mythic to give Warhammer the attention it deserves without neglecting the ongoing improvment of DAoC.
And to keep this post on topic, the only people dumber than the DnL developers are the DnL producers who have been pounding money down a rat hole for the last 6 years and all they got to show for it is DnL.
The current tactics by Farlan is:
Pretend the problem doesnt exist & hope they go away as in the following cases:
Virus? What virus, locked
Refund? sure whatever, locked
How to cancel? err yah its "publicly known", thats why we lock all cancel threads instead of actually INFORMING
Then we have the shills/crazy fans that think EVERYTHING Farlan does is just great & ignores the current & ongoing problems. Seems also like most of the regular thinking fans either left the forums or got banned (not praising D&L in any thread = 15% to be labelled troll by mod & get banned soon thereafter with a poor excuse).
The current tactics by Farlan is:
Pretend the problem doesnt exist & hope they go away as in the following cases:
Virus? What virus, locked
Refund? sure whatever, locked
How to cancel? err yah its "publicly known", thats why we lock all cancel threads instead of actually INFORMING
Then we have the shills/crazy fans that think EVERYTHING Farlan does is just great & ignores the current & ongoing problems. Seems also like most of the regular thinking fans either left the forums or got banned (not praising D&L in any thread = 15% to be labelled troll by mod & get banned soon thereafter with a poor excuse).
Indeed! Now to counter the huge fiasco of the last "fix it patch rollback fuck up" I guess they are trying to throw out a distraction with new stuff? Incredible. Piss ppl off more.
When are they gonna get it? You feed ppl shit, they complain. You DONT keep feeding them shit, telling them to ignore it, and pile more shit on top of their plate!!! Its totally f***g nuts!!