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Lineage 2: Re-Review
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
Today, MMORPG.com's own Laura Genender re-reviews Lineage 2. The game has come up since our last review, improving their previous score from 6.9 to 7.3. It earns its highest scroes in the category of Sound and Performance, which categories like role-playing and community bring up the rear:
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One thing that NCSoft has inarguably done right over the last couple of Chronicles is add subclassing, where level 75 characters (the max is 78) can do a quest to earn a second character class that they can start at level 40 and experience the upper-end content from a different perspective. After this update, NCSoft added Hero status, where players who have two level 75 classes their main class and one sub can participate in a tournament. One representative of each class is chosen to be that classs hero, and their characters earn special equipment, skills, and access to special NPCs and abilities. This addition allowed NCSoft to reuse a good amount of content to create a new and engaging PvP system. The PvP, too, bears mentioning. Lineage 2 is an open PvP game, where players can be attacked at any point (though there is a penalty for killing players who dont fight back). A large focus of the game is also on largescale PvP battles over the Lineage 2 castles. While there are still some balance issues, the quality of PvP in Lineage 2 is amazingly high. Almost all characters can play an important PvP role, and with the upcoming Chronicle 5, most players will be given a more prominent 1v1 advantage. |
Read the article, here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
Little or no roleplay is a HUGE bonus in my books, so the game shouldn't be downgraded because of that.
The rest of the review is good though.
I think this review is spot on. The game's grind was very intense, and if I was unemployed and maybe had a bunch of friends playing, i'd definately go back to L2. There were some seirous flaws in the game as well, such as my dark elf going 'red' because I was killing bots. This would normally not be a huge problem, but I killed so many bots that it would have taken me an estimated 300 hours to return to normallicy. As well, since my 'red' was in the orc area, the character was actually screwed permanently because she couldn't teleport out (Npcs attacked her), and there were no mobs that gave experience (thus I couldn't even work towards 'blue' status).
The graphics are INSANE! The only MMO that even competes is Eve online. Spot on with the botters. I even used a bot to grind through a certain area because it was just that easy. It's not even chinese who bot, it's regular players who bot because nobody cares and everyone does it.
intentional strife makes for a cutthroat and dishonorable community.
Upper-end items are ridiculously rare, and too many players will scam,
hack, PK, and grief to obtain them, or buy adena using real-world
currency which only serves to further skew the market."
Yes, and the fact that MMORPG.com takes advertising from these currency sellers doesn't help matters. These farmers harm every game out there.Without advertising their impact would be lessened.
Level 40 is around 1% of lvl 78's exp. Going from 1 to 40 is possible in a few hours if you know what to do. You don't epxerience any fraction of "upper-end" content at lvl 40 (which isn't any different from "content" at lvl 10 or at lvl70).
The only thing that "subclassing" encourages is more mindless gameplay or in reality - botting and/or partying with pro farmers.
Koreans are bloody bored and tired of this type of "gameplay" as well. I have no idea how can you give "7" for fun and "9" for value.
PvP is is beyond unbalanced at this moment, and will get worse in C5 (sadly, as usual).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DStuff
imo
Pros
excellent graphics and beautiful avaitars (although most look the same)
Great effects of spells ect
sieges are fun
Cons
crappy roll play, and community
endless grind and long downtimes
story and purpose?
death penalty is steap - lose of gear, and exp
it was an ok game, but the lack diversity, endless grind killed it for me...
Saidee
____________
I've been playing L2 since Sept and that is a very unfair portrail of the community. Broad based generalization at best.
As far as the bots and currency selling goes, find me a game that doesn't have them? There is no way you can tell me WoW does NOT have a larger currency farming buying / selling market. No way at all.
Knock a few points off WoW for that one please.
Hum, what can i say. Well, the majority is quite true. Although I think that the community is not that bad, the roleplaying is quite bad. But, if we want perfection, I think we'll have to wait a bit more.
Luccheno
About the community, I believe the review was somewhat true with that but I don't know what game they are playing but for raid bosses, I can easily find a group for a raid boss at lower levels even though in the review it says upper-end content. You can start raiding at lvl 20 (go to Adventure Guild Member and you will see the tons of raid bosses).
L2 during beta was the best gaming experience I ever had. Over the last few chronicles though it's gotten a little dull for me personally. But overall many improvements have been made. I'll probably come back for a while in C5 or C6.
Zera is another MMO i'm looking forward to. I hope it makes it out of testing and comes to the U.S. Let's get some more coverage on it MMORPG.com.
Its a tough one. I think from a newcomers perspective the community can seem pretty awful and its definately an aspect of L2's community that you only get out what you put in. Despite the silly recommend system, reputation really is everything in this game.
A good clan early on can eliminate most problems, but the eternal debate surrounding the perception of "open" PvP will always leave some players feeling griefed when they come up against another who was simply "playing the game".
Even with its Hard-Knock reputation, Kain had a wonderful community and I enjoyed the server immensely. I am under no illusion though that the relationship and reputation I built up in game is something one could achieve overnight; it isnt, which is why the long grind serves an important and multiple purpose, part of which is as a meaningful catalyst to player dynamics as opposed to some cheap ploy to keep players longer.
All in all a fair review.
Best comment goes to Yukkione
I play a level 64 character on Kain and I had a level 47 on Sieghardt before I moved. My description of the community was based on my experiences on these two servers, as well as my experieces on Bartz during Closed Beta. It's good to hear that people are finding good people - I totally agree that having a good clan and a good group of friends makes the game super fun. Fact is, though, that it's tough to find those people in the first place.
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
Lineage 2 is a hard game. You have to fight and claw your way to the top. A lot of new players don't understand this concept. You have to have self interest. You don't have to grief or scam, but you have to look out for whats best for your clan and yourself. This type of atmosphere doesn't make the community bad, just different. Everyone who has played Lineage and has reached the higher levels has at some point been griefed, pked, scammed, pushed out of hunting grounds, and ect. It is the nature of the game. You either kill or be killed. I am not saying every person has to play that way, but look at the most competative clans on each server and how they play. It is a pvp game for a reason.
Advice I would give to anyone who is interested in playing Lineage 2 is don't get discouraged about being pked or griefed because it has happens to everyone. Try and get into a good clan. It doesn't have to be the best or even near that, but make sure that it has active members that you can party with and uses teamspeak, ventrilo, or some form of voice communication. Last but not least. Don't be submissive. Don't assume that just because you are nice to someone that they will show you the same respect and kindness.
MachineOman
I just glad to see ! ppl realize that the game has a Re review! I was waiting for this
this game deserve more then 6.4 in game spot and the old point that have here! , yea everyone knows this game is not for every1, but still like it to alots of ppls! Just thinkin on this , Do u guys have any idea HOW MANY players play at Private servers??????? Just take a time a think on this! Theres lot of more ppl then play at private then retail!! so this means lot ppl love it! So Good to see game has a re review!
Hope When c5 be out! game can have a rebalance Is all! cuz bots they are goint to exist for all life lol
Have Fun and become part for L2
PD: btw sorry for my english is not to much well ^^
kain Rocks xD
You can RolePlay in Lineage II !
We do that all the time in our Clan !
Check it out here : www.ShillienEmpire.com
Bots are a problem though. But when it comes down to it, I would rather have a botting farmer than a live one. Live farmers (in WoW for example) are extreamley annoying.
Oh yea, and the ads that MMORPG.com are supporting are not necissarily helping the matter, but eh...money is money right?
Lineage 2 is a political game, not a PvP game. PvP is simply one of the ways in which politics manifests itself. Truth is, L2 PvP is really [b]bad[/b] right now. Because of the c4 clan war system, most pvp is ganking or getting ganked, hardly entertaining. Large fights are fewer and further between, and I must say the only time I had fun PvPing in recent memory was during the interserver battle tournament. 99% of PvP now happens during clan war or during a siege, this means the flagging system is almost removed from the game. Without the flagging system, ranged classes completely dominate because melees cannot manuever while white, and simply die.
If you aren't playing L2 for clan politics you aren't going to have fun. The entire game is designed from the ground up to be about clans and politics. The crafting system was designed for clans, the siege system is designed for clans, and leaving a clan actually has a 5 day penalty do that you won't hop from clan to clan (stressing loyalty to your tag).
Like everyone else, I feel your community assessment was off as well. L2's community is filled with players you love AND hate. Without both, you do not have a functioning community. L2 is filled with some of the worst scammer, griefing, cheating scum on the internet, and that's what makes it great. You can hate those people and kill those people. L2's community is more robust than any other game I have played.
Also, I don't see why you gave it bad marks on economy. Sure, there is an ebay and farmer problem, but the economy has SURVIVED. In fact, one of my chinese farmer friends said it best-
[Quote]L2's economy is too good. It works without farmers... but it also works with farmers[/quote]
This is true. L2's economy is completely player controlled, the prices always fluxuate and shopping in town is it's own adventure. The economy is breathing and healthy, and the high-end gear of the game has always had nearly the same USD currency value, this shows strength to me. When C2 came out, B grade cost the amount of adena which would add up to $XXX, now in C4, S grade costs an amount of adena that is nearly the same. This means the economy is stabley inflating, much better than many other MMOs.
the game itself is awesome and im not that fantasy fan but thesupport service stinks (sorry to say it)
i cant connect to loginserver since the last shutdown and not only me couple of other guys here in belgium have the same problem;
We did everything they asked us todo and still no connection even if we type in wrong login/pasword nothing happens and when we complain on the forum about it, my thread is deleted.
but the game itself is awesome
Its a tough one. I think from a newcomers perspective the community can seem pretty awful and its definately an aspect of L2's community that you only get out what you put in. Despite the silly recommend system, reputation really is everything in this game.
A good clan early on can eliminate most problems, but the eternal debate surrounding the perception of "open" PvP will always leave some players feeling griefed when they come up against another who was simply "playing the game".
Even with its Hard-Knock reputation, Kain had a wonderful community and I enjoyed the server immensely. I am under no illusion though that the relationship and reputation I built up in game is something one could achieve overnight; it isnt, which is why the long grind serves an important and multiple purpose, part of which is as a meaningful catalyst to player dynamics as opposed to some cheap ploy to keep players longer.
All in all a fair review.
Best comment goes to Yukkione
I always thought that rating a game based on community was a shaky idea. To do it fairly you would need to get to know the vast majority of a server. Something that you can not do. Its a subjective opinion based on a very limited experience.
Althought the writer claims to have played on a few servers to the upper 40's they don't seem to "get" L2 otherwise it would not have been hit for what it is.
Basically you and me KariTR are bad people and the suckiest community. Even GW got a 6. (oh my, have you ever played GW????? THAT is a ) Although we the players know that this assesment of our community is about 100% wrong, non players don't and now a fresh round of "L2 sucks because the players are jerks" from the non-players.
The RP - I dont get this one either. WoW has 8 facial choices and about 1 or 2 more hairstyles then L2. (go count them if you like, I'm insane and did. I'm still subscribed and will meet you ingame if you doubt) I hardly see where this is significantly "better" then L2. On top of it, the customization screen in WoW is very poor. You never get a close up of your toon. You CAN NOT tell what your character looks like until you get ingame and can wheel in. It doesn't matter anyway because
There are only about 8 variations of any WoW character customization plus hair, which produces an unparalled amount of Dark Elf clones. But somehow WoW is "better".
WoW has a very very limited amount of classes. You get to pick between 8. WoW is much poorer at providing an RP experience. WoW has 8 races with 8 classes. Each races has roughly the same amount of character customization as L2. (on average 2 more facial choices) L2 has 6 races with race specific classes. I will not go into detail. Each racial class is different from the others. Human knights are different from Elf or Dark Elf.
The reviewer completely missed or does not understand what L2 is about. Its about the mass combat and the guild politics. It has nothing to do with having thousands of idiot "feel good, look at how much I have to do" kill task and delivery crap. Its about struggle and survival. If you quit L2 because of the grind or the economy...good.
Sorry, I still think the reviewer used alot of second hand info and I'm not to sure I buy the fact that they played to level 47. It seems unlikely because of the community score.
The thing I like about Lineage 2 is that it is truly a multi-faceted game. For as many people as there are playing it, there are ways to play. If you like the grind, it's there. If you like the politics, they are there. Role-player? It's there too.
While it does have some problems, this game does have many things to offer.
Oh, and /unstuck is only 5 minutes.
http://www.rimwall.com/shilenpics/albums/userpics/10001/Olorae-Crimson-Lilly.jpg
Personally, I found the review to be pretty much spot on. Though I have been part of many events where a group effort was required. An Alliance I was in worked with another - about 150 players in all - to take down Antharas. That certainly required alot of cooperation.. And many others have achieved the same task.
Botting/Farming in LII is the worst of any MMO I've played, hands down. If there are more physically in other games I've played, they don't make themselves known and/or aren't as much of an impact. They are right under the players (and the GMs) nose in Lineage II. They don't even try to hide it; running on completely automated/scripted routines, using the same exact armor/gear, using the same exact character look often times and having names like XLKDDFDFKJ.
The reviewer is exactly right in stating that they prevent legitimate players from playing the game, well, legitimately. Trying to find a room in a Catacomb/Necropolis can first require many minutes of looking for a room free of bots, or working to clear the bots already in one. Some of these bot groups literally have an "enforcer" - a high level, equipped-to-the-teeth toon who they'll log in to kill off any players "harassing" the botters, preventing them from doing their thing. Yes... legitimate players have to "fight for their right" to gain XP in LII.
Lineage II has proven (to me anyway) to have produced some of the absolute worst in human behavior on a regular basis. Hacked accounts, scamming, etc. etc.. players losing months/years worth of gear, etc. A report to NCSoft receives a mere shoulder shrug. They won't get involved unless a police report is filed - they won't even check to see who the gear was traded to (they keep records of all such data). I'm completely serious on this it happened to a friend of mine. It wouldn't be so bad except that losing a single item in LII, such as high end gear, or a really good weapon, can set you back weeks of play-time and millions upon millions of adena (money). People often just quit the game when it happens to them.
One of my biggest gripes with LII is how difficult it is to obtain good gear. The game provides a few options per "Grade" of gear and they go from being "Very Expensive" to "Are You Out of Your Mind?" in price. If the gear weren't so difficult to get, or if there were other sets that provided at least comparable statistics that could be bought from NPCs, not only from other players/crafters or drops, I think it wouldn't be so bad. But losing a single good piece of gear could leave you practically naked for how ever long it takes to earn it back.
So.. while LII has its up-sides.. it is a very beautiful game and the performance has improved dramatically over time and it does have some exciting PvP in the form of Sieges and such... its negative points far outweigh the positive.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops