Originally posted by Randd ok each of you that responded mention more than one game. And i'm sure your playing them at or around the same time. So going with that idea you have to factor in the cost of 3 or 4 games in the cost comparison of free to mmo. Also to a certain extent dependant on other gamers to make mods to expand the afformentioned games.
Then you would have to add the retail cost of my NES, SNES, Master System, 2600, Dreamcast, Genesis, Xbox, PS2, and Clie. However those are all bought and paid for and function without any additional fees. They don't affect my budget any longer but are still playable. MMO subscriptions don't function that way, you don't pay and everything you paid upto that point is 100% waste unless you resubscribe. So, your logic is flawed.
I feel I should mention PSU is countering this standard by making the game have a mode that functions entirely offline. Sega may not have the most successful history, but they show actual innovation and response to customer complaints which they should be praised for.
Besides in predicting the future you are assuming someone is buying games that have expansions from the company with a retail fee. There are quite a few games with level editors released which spawn fan sites creating a lot of free new content. What you should be focusing on is that you can't play a MMO without paying the fee, well the ones with subscriptions which are all taht matter in this arguement. While a player chooses to buy an expansion for a non MMO and can moderate the cash they spend on that particular game, or what week they pay.
15 dollars... 20 dollars IS NOT ALOT OF MONEY IN A MONTH for the ammount of entertainment a good mmo provides. Why do you complain? You own expensive computers...most of you live in the US but you complain about 12 15 20 bucks a month.
I hear the comment so often... " Well IF I DIDNT HAVE TO PAY 15 a month....I would play the game" SHUT UP ALREADY, your spoiled and cheap.
If the theatre would be free I would go see movies!!!!! Why do I have to pay more at the restaurant, doesn't make sense at all, it's cheaper if I make it myself at home!!!! I have an antenna on my TV, why they charge for cable?
The list can be long. The MMO world is like that. You pay for service and constant update. If you don't want to p2p, go back to a regular game like minesweeper, much more fun than MMO. You can meet so many ppl there.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
15 dollars a month, comes to a very small amount per day. If you work out how many hours, and how much enjoyment you receive from playing, you will see it is actually worth it.
I myself play several MMORPG'S with monthly payments, and I wouldn't play them if I did not think they deserved my hard earned money.
I also find alot of people who complain about the prices, saying they can't afford it. Well if you own a computer and a house with a least one room, then 15 dollars a month will surely not break the bank. Why do people complain about monthly fees? Silly, seeming as if people didn't pay, their wouldn't be any (decent) MMORPG'S out their.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience. 'cause everyone thinks they're right, And nobody thinks that there just might Be more than one road to our final destination--
I also have to admit its annoying to look trough the hype list and you see somebody hyped it bad with this text:"It looks great, but its not going to be free =/" followed by a "1" in the hype meter
I've been paying to play MMO's for years, and I wanted to express some reasons why I don't enjoy paying for them these days.
The reason I'm paying for my game is for the implementation of new combat, the assurance my game will run, to play 'securely' without bots, cheats, hacks, exploits, and for a good server.
These days.....I don't see those features that often in MMORPG's.
I'll use FFXI for example.
Content updates are frequently delayed, weeks, sometimes even months. Do not promise me content that you can't deliver. One of the only reasons I am playing FFXI is to see the alleged Chocobo breeding they planned on implementing...on May 18...then June 19....Now july 9th. That's lying to your customer to draw out an extra 30 dollars.
To assure my game will run.....while this isn;t a problem, this month there were 3 emergency maintenence. All conducted during my only available playtime. Therefore, I was robbed of 3 days playtime for server problems which I paid for.
To play securely...perhaps my biggest reluctancy in paying for MMO's these days. The same botters have been running rampant in FFXI for years. I've reported them several times, and they're still there. People constantly use skillup bots, and poswarps, and they're allowed to run rampant. Why am I paying for security when the CSR isn't willing to do anything to keep their own servers secure¿ Let's not even mention RMT...which has been allowed to run rampant.
As for a good server, I won't hate on FFXI's stability, though as of late, it's been extraordinarily laggy.
Still, I don't complain about the fees...I just stopped playing pay-to-play until I feel a worthwhile title comes out.
I just wanted to show some of the possible arguments for why people question monthly fees.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
15 dollars... 20 dollars IS NOT ALOT OF MONEY IN A MONTH for the ammount of entertainment a good mmo provides. Why do you complain? You own expensive computers...most of you live in the US but you complain about 12 15 20 bucks a month.
I hear the comment so often... " Well IF I DIDNT HAVE TO PAY 15 a month....I would play the game" SHUT UP ALREADY, your spoiled and cheap.
I dissagree completely with you. I have played MMORPG's longer than most people on this forum and I've never 'complained' about paying a monthly fee. What I have stated in recent months is that:
In light of the advent of high quality MMORPG's that are not charging a monthly fee, it does not make sense to me to pay $15 a month if the fee is not garnering much of an advantage over those free titles.
In the past this was never an issue because the 'free to play' MMORPG's just flat out weren't even in the same ballpark as the fee based ones.
This is no longer true. Today there are multiple MMORPG offerings that are high quality, free to play and offer almost as many features (some actually offer more) than most current fee-based MMORPG's.
Guild Wars... while not technically an MMORPG is one of the best online games on the market. Very fun, offers almost anything you can get in an MMORPG except that it's very instanced and doesn't have crafting or player housing (though it does have a very nice guild housing system) Furthermore it's PVP system is superior to most MMORPG's on the market.
Anarchy Online... "Play free for a year (well I'm on 1.5 years free now and still going)". If you want to play the expansion content you have to pay a fee. But frankly the expansions aren't really worth it. But the CORE game, which is free even to download, is better than the vast majority of MMORPG's on the market as well. Is almost completely bug free.... very well balanced, offers factional PVP and a very nice level based skill system.
ShadowBane... Another excellent MMORPG that's been around for about 5 years now. Went free to play recently and, while the graphics on this one are kinda cludgy, offers the best PVP on the market except possibly for DAOC. Has a phenomenal player city/housing/castle system and the best siege warfare, bar none, in the industry.
PlanetSide (Reserves)... Just went free to play. This is a VERY fun game to hop on and play on and off.
With the above four games (and I'm sure there are other good ones, these are 4 that I have personally played since they went free to play) I have been very hard pressed to find an MMORPG that currently offers enough features/fun/whatever to justify paying $180 a year to play. These cost me nothing (in the case of Guild Wars it costs me the price of the box).
So for a game to charge me a monthly fee it needs to be enough better for me to not only enjoy it, but to enjoy it enough to justify a monthly fee in light of the fact that I get almost (if not more) as much quality from the free-to-play MMORPG's on the market.
In short: The bar has gone up on what *I* am willing to sink my 'extra' money on. $15 a month may not seem like much to a kid in college or whatever who has no expenses whatsoever. But for me that's a night out for my kids or enough for a babysitter for a couple hours so my wife and I can escape the kids for a bit. Sure I can easily AFFORD it.... the question, for me anyway, is: Do I WANT it... if I can get almost as much game (and currently in most cases more game) for free?
Like I said... previously this was not an issue... but now that there are so many viable alternatives to fee based MMORPG's?
The Bar has gone up. Currently there are 2 MMORPG's that I'd consider paying a monthly fee for. I am not subscribed to either since they're not my cup of tea.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Yeah hostile attitude....your right. Im tired of hearing people complain about it. It irritates the shit out of me WHERES MY COOKIE And living in the US just shows your prolly doing ok financially. Dont tell me your not-- I have no doubt I make less money than 99.9 percent of you but I can still afford a high speed cable connection, my game of choice and the monthly fee.
You paid for the game---but your not paying for the hosting. Get over it--even if I wasnt grown with family/kids I could still afford it
As has been stated before: How much you make doesn't matter. It's how much disposable income you have left over at the end of the month that does. Not a problem for me. I can afford whatever I want since I made smart decisions both in high school and college and in choosing my career path, where I chose to live and work and whom I am willing to work for.
That said, it's not about being able to AFFORD it. It's whether you consider the product WORTH it. And for $180 a year a game has to be EXTREMELY good for me to justify sinking that kind of cash into it ($230 for the first year, in fact). I can buy an XBOX 360 for that much. See the point?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by Randd Just out of curiousity, what non mmo game did you play for 3 years?
Neverwinter Nights, Unreal Tournament 2004, Final Fantasy 8, Alice, N One Lives Forever, Black and White 1
I am sure there are more, but those are what are what is currently installed on this specific computer.
This may sound crazy... But I still play DOOM, MechWarrior III & IV, Thief and several other games to this day. In fact I'm playing a very cool mod of Vampire: Bloodlines lately. I still play Masters of Orion (the original, not the sequels, they're nowhere near as good) for that matter.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Randd ok each of you that responded mention more than one game. And i'm sure your playing them at or around the same time. So going with that idea you have to factor in the cost of 3 or 4 games in the cost comparison of free to mmo. Also to a certain extent dependant on other gamers to make mods to expand the afformentioned games.
Wrong.... just because you're playing an MMORPG doesn't mean you aren't playing anything else. I'm currently playing 2 MMORPG's (both free to play) Beta Testing a 3rd and I still have time to play several single player games.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by ghost047 If the theatre would be free I would go see movies!!!!! Why do I have to pay more at the restaurant, doesn't make sense at all, it's cheaper if I make it myself at home!!!! I have an antenna on my TV, why they charge for cable?
The list can be long. The MMO world is like that. You pay for service and constant update. If you don't want to p2p, go back to a regular game like minesweeper, much more fun than MMO. You can meet so many ppl there.
Ahh so true... except that we now have alternatives. I listed 4... there are others. Paying a monthly fee isn't mandatory anymore. Some games don't require it and as more and more people realize it the ones that do will be forced (one would hope anyway) to offer better products in order to keep people paying the fee. For $180 a month a MMORPG should offer as much content (at least) as buying 3 full blown Single player games of the same quality in a single year. None currently do. Though Hero's Journey may, the "Army of GM's" is no joke and their games typically wind up with more content than anything I've ever seen.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I don't mind spending the money, but no game is worth it at the time I think
i'm probably gonne buy me an xbox360 and purchase only the games that have proven their online quality, I love the immersion with the voice chat... seems a lot more social than hanging behind the keyboard anyway.
Am I not as easily amused since i've become older or are the games becoming of less quality/focussing on the wrong senses...
PS I agree at some point with u though
the only ones that don't have money for a mmorpg are kids and lazy bastards, if u got the money for your own PC u should have plenty for a MMORPG. I hope there will be acces fees to all online services as to minimize the little bastards online...
15 dollars... 20 dollars IS NOT ALOT OF MONEY IN A MONTH for the ammount of entertainment a good mmo provides. Why do you complain? You own expensive computers...most of you live in the US but you complain about 12 15 20 bucks a month.
I hear the comment so often... " Well IF I DIDNT HAVE TO PAY 15 a month....I would play the game" SHUT UP ALREADY, your spoiled and cheap.
Why did you even post this stupid crap. we already know people are cheap and dont like paying $15 a month to play games. If your so mad about it go outside and punch a tree till the anger leaves you instead of wasting time doing this.
also, a lot of young gamers (those 12 year olds we all complain about) don't have access to a credit card. i know i didn't back in the day. sure, you can ask your parent, but a lot of parents aren't willing to spend a monthly fee for their kids to be glued to the computer.
I don't think it is that bad. But if you play many subscription MMOs then that will be A LOT of money! I think the best solution is Guild Wars'. You buy the game and then can play it for free. Some games offer free play and premium play that is another good solution. But as I said, it becomes to expensive if you play many MMOs.
Comments
Then you would have to add the retail cost of my NES, SNES, Master System, 2600, Dreamcast, Genesis, Xbox, PS2, and Clie. However those are all bought and paid for and function without any additional fees. They don't affect my budget any longer but are still playable. MMO subscriptions don't function that way, you don't pay and everything you paid upto that point is 100% waste unless you resubscribe. So, your logic is flawed.
I feel I should mention PSU is countering this standard by making the game have a mode that functions entirely offline. Sega may not have the most successful history, but they show actual innovation and response to customer complaints which they should be praised for.
Besides in predicting the future you are assuming someone is buying games that have expansions from the company with a retail fee. There are quite a few games with level editors released which spawn fan sites creating a lot of free new content. What you should be focusing on is that you can't play a MMO without paying the fee, well the ones with subscriptions which are all taht matter in this arguement. While a player chooses to buy an expansion for a non MMO and can moderate the cash they spend on that particular game, or what week they pay.
http://www.TheGamersAssociation.com
The list can be long. The MMO world is like that. You pay for service and constant update. If you don't want to p2p, go back to a regular game like minesweeper, much more fun than MMO. You can meet so many ppl there.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Indeed, I agree.
15 dollars a month, comes to a very small amount per day. If you work out how many hours, and how much enjoyment you receive from playing, you will see it is actually worth it.
I myself play several MMORPG'S with monthly payments, and I wouldn't play them if I did not think they deserved my hard earned money.
I also find alot of people who complain about the prices, saying they can't afford it. Well if you own a computer and a house with a least one room, then 15 dollars a month will surely not break the bank. Why do people complain about monthly fees? Silly, seeming as if people didn't pay, their wouldn't be any (decent) MMORPG'S out their.
~Signatures are for morons~
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
The reason I'm paying for my game is for the implementation of new combat, the assurance my game will run, to play 'securely' without bots, cheats, hacks, exploits, and for a good server.
These days.....I don't see those features that often in MMORPG's.
I'll use FFXI for example.
Content updates are frequently delayed, weeks, sometimes even months. Do not promise me content that you can't deliver. One of the only reasons I am playing FFXI is to see the alleged Chocobo breeding they planned on implementing...on May 18...then June 19....Now july 9th. That's lying to your customer to draw out an extra 30 dollars.
To assure my game will run.....while this isn;t a problem, this month there were 3 emergency maintenence. All conducted during my only available playtime. Therefore, I was robbed of 3 days playtime for server problems which I paid for.
To play securely...perhaps my biggest reluctancy in paying for MMO's these days. The same botters have been running rampant in FFXI for years. I've reported them several times, and they're still there. People constantly use skillup bots, and poswarps, and they're allowed to run rampant. Why am I paying for security when the CSR isn't willing to do anything to keep their own servers secure¿ Let's not even mention RMT...which has been allowed to run rampant.
As for a good server, I won't hate on FFXI's stability, though as of late, it's been extraordinarily laggy.
Still, I don't complain about the fees...I just stopped playing pay-to-play until I feel a worthwhile title comes out.
I just wanted to show some of the possible arguments for why people question monthly fees.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
This is no longer true. Today there are multiple MMORPG offerings that are high quality, free to play and offer almost as many features (some actually offer more) than most current fee-based MMORPG's.
- Guild Wars... while not technically an MMORPG is one of the best online games on the market. Very fun, offers almost anything you can get in an MMORPG except that it's very instanced and doesn't have crafting or player housing (though it does have a very nice guild housing system) Furthermore it's PVP system is superior to most MMORPG's on the market.
- Anarchy Online... "Play free for a year (well I'm on 1.5 years free now and still going)". If you want to play the expansion content you have to pay a fee. But frankly the expansions aren't really worth it. But the CORE game, which is free even to download, is better than the vast majority of MMORPG's on the market as well. Is almost completely bug free.... very well balanced, offers factional PVP and a very nice level based skill system.
- ShadowBane... Another excellent MMORPG that's been around for about 5 years now. Went free to play recently and, while the graphics on this one are kinda cludgy, offers the best PVP on the market except possibly for DAOC. Has a phenomenal player city/housing/castle system and the best siege warfare, bar none, in the industry.
- PlanetSide (Reserves)... Just went free to play. This is a VERY fun game to hop on and play on and off.
With the above four games (and I'm sure there are other good ones, these are 4 that I have personally played since they went free to play) I have been very hard pressed to find an MMORPG that currently offers enough features/fun/whatever to justify paying $180 a year to play. These cost me nothing (in the case of Guild Wars it costs me the price of the box).So for a game to charge me a monthly fee it needs to be enough better for me to not only enjoy it, but to enjoy it enough to justify a monthly fee in light of the fact that I get almost (if not more) as much quality from the free-to-play MMORPG's on the market.
In short: The bar has gone up on what *I* am willing to sink my 'extra' money on. $15 a month may not seem like much to a kid in college or whatever who has no expenses whatsoever. But for me that's a night out for my kids or enough for a babysitter for a couple hours so my wife and I can escape the kids for a bit. Sure I can easily AFFORD it.... the question, for me anyway, is: Do I WANT it... if I can get almost as much game (and currently in most cases more game) for free?
Like I said... previously this was not an issue... but now that there are so many viable alternatives to fee based MMORPG's?
The Bar has gone up. Currently there are 2 MMORPG's that I'd consider paying a monthly fee for. I am not subscribed to either since they're not my cup of tea.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
That said, it's not about being able to AFFORD it. It's whether you consider the product WORTH it. And for $180 a year a game has to be EXTREMELY good for me to justify sinking that kind of cash into it ($230 for the first year, in fact). I can buy an XBOX 360 for that much. See the point?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Neverwinter Nights, Unreal Tournament 2004, Final Fantasy 8, Alice, N One Lives Forever, Black and White 1
I am sure there are more, but those are what are what is currently installed on this specific computer.
This may sound crazy...
But I still play DOOM, MechWarrior III & IV, Thief and several other games to this day. In fact I'm playing a very cool mod of Vampire: Bloodlines lately. I still play Masters of Orion (the original, not the sequels, they're nowhere near as good) for that matter.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I don't mind spending the money, but no game is worth it at the time I think
i'm probably gonne buy me an xbox360 and purchase only the games that have proven their online quality, I love the immersion with the voice chat... seems a lot more social than hanging behind the keyboard anyway.
Am I not as easily amused since i've become older or are the games becoming of less quality/focussing on the wrong senses...
PS I agree at some point with u though
the only ones that don't have money for a mmorpg are kids and lazy bastards, if u got the money for your own PC u should have plenty for a MMORPG. I hope there will be acces fees to all online services as to minimize the little bastards online...
However when I have to buy the game + pay for monthly fee's + pay for the damn expansion packs most MMO's sell, it starts to add up after awhile.